Pretty Certain Marriage of 16+ Years to BPDw is Over But What is Happening?

[Q-DawgVFR]

 

This is my first post, although I have lurked for a short time and done a lot of reading over the past week.

I am at a crossroads and the time has come for change.  I believe that probably the best solution is for separation and divorce, although I say this with much sadness and after a lot of difficult deliberation.  She is in therapy, but I have little faith in us working at this point, and even if it did, I fail to see where anything remotely healthy might sprout up from where we are now.

But I don't quite know what mechanism is at play here that has caused such major behavioral changes in such a short time.  I can't even say for certain that it is all BPD in the driver's seat as I have made so many mistakes caving, enabling or trying to fix.  I have read about splitting and dissociation, and some other behaviors, but am struggling to understand what is going on.  Here is the background.  And sorry but it is longwinded, as we have gone through a LOT.

I am married to my wife of 16 years, who less than a year ago was diagnosed with BPD (although initially psychiatrist was on the fence about it and called it NPD).  We have 3 boys, aged 7, 9, 13.  While her mental health issues are not new (there had been something at play the entire duration of our marriage) I just didnt know what to call it.  Last March, after one month hospitalization for suicidal intentions (I believe unrelated: I will explain), one month post hospitalization outpatient therapy program, and another 12 week group therapy, she was diagnosed with BPD (a revised diagnosis after an interview with me: I had read Eggshells book and it clicked).

I can say that I in turn have a bit of rescuer, have a fix it attitude, and developed a fair bit of codependency in recent years (more on that later), as well as a couple narc qualities at times.  While I have been pretty consistent with stating boundaries, I havent been with upholding them or for there being consequences, as I was unsure how to react to some behaviors.  Definitely I had a hand in getting us here.  On with the story... .

My wife has hypothyroidism and has been medicated for it since her teens, felt disconnected / excluded from her siblings and mom, had an abusive relationship as early adult, along with string of casual partners before she met me.  We clicked and everything seemed textbook lovely to me (I dated very little before her and was not a very confident person then) but she was emotionally volatile and put on SSRI almost immediately after we got married.  Sex life really good at beginning but dropped dramatically after marriage, even more after firstborn.  She was a cranky mom and I just figured it was normal stuff and i had to suck it up and be a better father and husband.  She had a career change and went back to school for 2 years (me commuting to city to see her and my son) to be a nurse.  She had a stroke at end of schooling at age 30 and was completely paralyzed one side, but responded well to TPA made 99% recovery.  Had child #2, moved a year later and I started new job (start-up, long hours) and had child #3.  After child #3 came period where she became very body focused on weigh loss (something she struggled with but had some success with, and I always liked her looks) and got tummy tuck and breast augmentation, then started bodybuilding.  Through all these years, I seemed to either be Mr Wonderful to her, or irritably messing up (Mr Mud).  I couldn't tell if it was her or me that was the problem, but I knew I was more attentive and devoted as a husband, father and lover than most of my peers, so what gives I wondered.

Sex was withheld a lot, and a bit of a point of contention for me as I was high drive and it was something she showered me with a lot in the first year and a half.  Sometimes for several weeks at a time.  I was told to adjust my expectations as she just was low drive and the sex at the beginning was not her true self and she had been worried that she would be rejected.  I was resentful about this misrepresentation but tried to soldier on.  Although we could talk about sex and communicated well, I knew she felt shame somewhere in her sexual identity and it was an issue for her.  When we did engage, we had great chemistry together and I could never understand why it was not more often.

Anyway, she started bodybuilding and acting very selfishly and became pretty hostile towards me at times.  I was quickly getting tired of the chronic sexual rejection, the bottomless pit (the more i did the less appreciated I felt), the jeckyl and hyde personality at home, and the chameleon act when she was in public or wanted attention and validation.  She would dress up nicely for other people's benefit, never for me.  The snotty attitude and contemptuous way she treated me quickly led us to counselling and me considering separation, as I was really fed up with the way I was being treated.  The couples therapist took her side and I felt like I was being ganged up on.  I recall being told that I was "solving problems that weren't mine to solve" in one of our three sessions, in regard to my wife refusing to make anything for the kids to eat at dinnertime, deciding I should do it because she would rather work out, even though she had been home all day with ample opportunity.  I work shift work, worked 12 hours and I cooked so my kids could eat!

I hit my breaking point and had my fill of rejection and made a choice I was not proud of: to begin a short affair. While not something I am proud of and I would rather have been accepted by my wife, I did it carefully and successfully and I learned a lot about myself in the process.  I knew I was doing it to detach and gain confidence so I could end the marriage.  I wanted some validation that I was desirable and worth the effort. I ended it as I didn't want to hurt anyone.

Then wife got sick.  Bad.  And it changed everything.  We went through a very stressful period of 9 months trying to figure it out.  She had acute chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia, and became much more irritable, couldnt sleep, had little strength or energy, and was sensitive to touch, noise, light.  Hugging or being in the same room with our kids was a painful experience for her and she spent days in near darkness and isolation, and emerged for only a few hours a day to eat and have human contact for a little bit.  This went on for 2 years and was a miserable existence I wished on no living person.  I felt trapped in my situation as she was miserable and alternatively verbally abusive or singing my praise as the most perfect husband in the world.  I didnt want to actually leave, as for the most part I felt it had slowed down our life and brought us closer together and more intimate emotionally.  She would sometimes go on rant about how she should just be put in a home and abondoned and forgotten about.  She even talked of suicide.  We started therapy and I took some time off work to try to help more.  I would try to comfort her and get her though each day. I looked for outside the box remedies, washed her hair when she couldnt do it for herself, drive her everywhere, take the kids for extra outings so she could have peace and quiet.  I threw myself into the caregiver role with everything I had, for my family, and to recharge and feel some semblance of normalcy, I resumed having an affair over the course of about a year.  I didn't want the affair: I wanted her.  But I was so terribly lonely and just couldn't take the emptiness.  At least if I was single I knew I could do something about wanting companionship.  It wasn't just about sex: sometimes I just wanted conversation or some tender moments.
 That affair ended when she expressed another serious intent to kill herself (she could get no relief from her physical symptoms) and I checked her into the hospital, which was a game changer.  I also decided I was done fooling around outside my marriage and would not do it again, as it violated my values and I didn't like the way I felt about myself or the lies and omission (which I was scaring myself at getting good at) And I really didn't want to hurt anyone.  I wanted my marriage to work and I appreciated my wife.

There in the hospital, they tweaked her drugs and over the course of about a month, everything changed.  Her new drugs had tripled her energy levels, improved her mood, taken away ALL of the fibromyalgia symptoms.  It had given us our life back!  She did her months of group therapy, got her BPD diagnosis (which seemed like a bonus find to finally put a name to it) and began eating better. She lost a bunch of the weight she gained while very ill and even had energy for doing yoga for almost an hour a day.  She and I started to reconnect and have good times again and had nearly half a year of really good communication, few conflicts, and what seemed (to me) a pretty genuine appreciation and deeper love for each other .

Boom! Six months ago, she suddenly gets a ravenous sex drive, but it came with strings: some guy she always had a crush on was flirting with her online, and she wanted to be flirty back. She was asking permission to explore her newfound sexuality a bit. I was surprised, but felt guilty about my own past behavior and wanted her to explore her sexuality further with me, so I said OK.  I quickly realized it was a mistake even before I had even been asked, as she stomped those boundaries and was basically trying to have an affair with my permission and it went out of control quickly, with her even making plans to meet in a matter of days, with the explanation that she wanted to explore and open relationship, which was something I had pitched once as an outside the box idea when she was ill and I didnt want to sneak around.  (I never would have, had I known the BPD!)  I realized that while I was probably dealing with karma payback, this was very much not OK with me and I called for it to stop.  She went on a big rant and personal attack on my character, which hurt me quite a bit, even though she later retracted a lot of what she said.  SHe went back to therapy and tried talking it out.

Behavior simply shifted from online sexting with her friend, to complete strangers, in person flirting.  She said she was worried she would cheat and really wanted to explore some new experiences.  I felt I was being given no choice, and against better judgement, agreed to experiment with swinging. Strict rule we play together.  I felt maybe if I participated, she wouldnt sneak around. Met a nice couple and met a few times leading up to a couple of physical encounters.  While it was pleasant and respectful all around, my wife said she wanted more attention from others and while we were talking about it, i found out about some more boundary violations and I called an all stop.  The swinging wasn't doing anything for me.  To me it was just sex and I wanted connection like i felt with my wife (and in the past with affairs)  We agreed to keep talk talk talking, but she became more withdrawn about a month ago and she began talking about how little we have in common and how she doesn't feel anything for me or the kids and wished she was never a mom and she can't stand her family and they could all drop off the face of the earth as far as she cares.  She was on a yoga mental health reflection exercise which asked a lot of questions about self and relationships.  She had started consulting astrologers, reading oracle cards twice a day, posting ominous stuff on Instagram. Back to heavier therapy, basically once a week. Then a couple weeks ago, she said she needed a day or two to reflect.  I cautioned her on breaking any boundaries in our marriage and reminded her that while we worked out our differences, we were not fooling around with others and I would find out about any affair should she have one. 

Well that was exactly what she did.  She escalated finally to having a physical affair of her own.  When I confronted her, she cried for a long time and begged for a chance to work on us.  But I have felt her disengagment and she is not into me much. We have had sex a few times and felt some level of connection, but I can tell she would be just as happy with anyone else doing it.

So basically I feel like at this point I have a relationship that is probably dead, and much of it from my own mistakes, and still not sure what caused the sudden shift in sex drive and pulling away from me when things seemed to be going so well.  I can say there's been a dramatic increase in alcohol intake since the spring (she was basically a non drinker) and many of her poor decisions were when intoxicated, although she maintains she has neither a drinking nor a judgement problem.  But she knows she's treated me like a bag of crap.  We have thrown around the idea of divorce a couple times, but both of us are reluctant to commit to it and i fear both of us are just saying we want to work on it because the other one said so.

I feel like its time to probably call it quits and learn from all the mistakes.

Any thoughts or advice?  Most people think she's nuts for wanting to leave and I do still love her deeply (that never stopped for me at any point) but I am tired of the six months of constant stress and mind games.

Figured I may as well share it honestly, warts and all

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Q-DawgVFR]

At this point i will add that I welcome any change that is for a healthier environment and I have radically accepted the situation after fighting tooth and nail to preserve us, realizing now most of my efforts were counterproductive. While the thought of her discarding me and the kids and immediately moving onto single life and casual encounters is a little gut wrenching, I feel at peace with making any necessary changes to change the situation.

I feel there is no miraculous fix to her behavior, and if we stay together it would only be if she snapped out of whatever has been going on for the last 6 months.  I need to accept it for what it is in the present, and barring any huge change like that, I feel confident in saying the best thing for me and the kids is to exit a toxic relationship where my needs and boundaries have been ignored when it becomes inconvenient to her and clashes with her wants.

Sorry for the doom and gloom on what should be a wonderful day.  Hope everyone has a Merry Christmas.  Heading home after this nightshift to open presents with my little guys, and I will find comfort and joy in their happiness today.  One day at a time... .

[Q-DawgVFR]

Bump for zero responses... .   I would like to know if a relationship like this can be saved, or if there's any point in trying.  She says she wants to work on her behavior and therapy a lot in the new year and treat people well, but I know she is still fantasizing a lot about a life on her own... . 

I know I contributed to a lot of this mess by enabling behaviors and giving in to endless ransom demands:  the open relationship request to flirt online felt like me trying to close the barn doors after the horses were let out: it was wrong before it even started, and subconsciously I think I knew there wasn't any "good" answer.

[once removed]

hi Q-DawgVFR, and

I would like to know if a relationship like this can be saved, or if there's any point in trying. 

this is very much a personal decision/question, but we can help you steer the relationship in a healthier direction, whichever way.

there is a great deal that has led the two of you to where you are, and it wont be solved over night. you can begin to improve things from your end, and your wife may or may not follow your lead.

can you read this and tell us what stage you think your relationship is in: https://bpdfamily.com/content/your-relationship-breaking-down

She says she wants to work on her behavior and therapy a lot in the new year and treat people well

this is promising... .what sort of therapy is she in, and for how long?

[goatclimbing]

It was great to read your full story. You’ve had a hell of a lot to cope with. Sorry it’s been so hard for you with bouts of sickness to deal with on top of everything. From where I’m sitting at least she is being open about her desires. It’s hurtful but it is honest.
Do you think you’d be up for couples therapy again? Keeping a BPD in the room is an art. I’ve come to accept that you have to take some hits in those sessions - some are fair some are less fair. Therapists know what’s going on, they’re not stupid. But they have to referee in a way that builds trust with the most difficult party - in this case your wife. Just a thought. I feel for you.

[Q-DawgVFR]

Once Removed and goatclimbing, thank you for your replies.  I feel like I could use some help, and I was wasn't sure I would get any on here with no other responses.

It is difficult for me to say exactly what stage of relationship breakdown we are in, but I would say stage 3 (only in last few months, before that it was stage 1) for a few reasons:
- lots of emotional baggage, trust issues after her boundary violations and infidelity.  (Yes I made my own decision to cheat for a while during the worst part of her physical illness, and while she never found out, I am sure some will think I am a jerk and deserve every difficult moment I am getting now.)
- incompatibility issues?  She wants open relationship so she can chase external validation and the "new shiny", but I do not have much use for open relationship.  I can do open relationship and not feel jealous (when we played together on equal terms), but I don't feel much satisfaction in the sex with others without a strong emotional connection.  She didn't respect boundaries when she had the chance. It led to her cheating.  I knew to some degree I was somewhat screwed no matter what I chose (she asked me about open after she had already crossed lines) and I know our relationship needed changes.  I decided to try it out.  It isn't really something I am too interested in.  Turns out one person is enough for me, when they are engaged with me. At least I learned a few things about myself.

i haven't always handled problems in the most constructive way to someone with BPD as it has only been known diagnosis about for less than a year of our relationship and I am still learning a LOT.  I am a pretty self aware and capable person, but there's only so much I can do.  I do agree that working on myself first is a top priority. It is something in my control. And whether we whether the storm or not, I will need to build those skills in myself and shed the behaviors that were enabling and not helping me be my best self.  One of my fears was losing myself trying to preserve the relationship, but at this point I know I need to be true to myself, enforce existing boundaries consistently with consequences.  I need to heal myself from the emotional hell that has been unleashed during the last half year, and am working on radical acceptance of the situation.

I would love for our relationship to work, and I still love dearly her even with her faults, but I know I am faced with two difficult options: we both do the work to make the relationship succeed, or end it and each go our own way.  At this point I think I am OK with either.  I am shifting my thinking from "am I good enough? what's wrong with me that I am being rejected by her?" to "I am good enough, and I deserve to be treated better.
 what would make me happiest in the long term?  is this relationship right for me?  even if it COULD work, SHOULD it?"

She has done several months of group therapy over the last year (CBT/DBT) and is currently doing therapy (not sure what to label it, but it is probably DBT from the description I have read) along with some hypnosis and a lot of yoga / meditation / practice mindfulness.  All this seems promising and has helped some areas of her mental illness, (such as active listening, direct communication, restoring some degree of relationship with my family after cutting them out of her life for over 2 years) but the most troubling behavior has not changed: she has overall had a pattern of escalating behavior over last 6 months with alcohol, sexual promiscuity, social media addiction and dissociative / dehumanizing? trend towards her family.  We did individual and couples therapy prior.  I would say we have both been doing therapy on/off over the last 4 years.

She said 6 months ago something "clicked" in her and she no longer felt shame or governed by others expectations.  While this sounds good on paper, it seemed like those things were holding some of her behavior in check before in terms of treating other people like dirt and being accountable.  Now she seems to be on a selfish quest to discover herself, at any expense.

I could totally do couples therapy again, and yeah there's a fine line with the therapist to keep them feeling heard and validated, while working the issues.  But I won't jump into couples therapy without her first demonstrating (with actions) that she is committed to putting effort into the relationship and wants to work on us.  It has been less than three weeks since she cheated on me.

I need to know I am not being charmed and she is willing to choose to put effort into saving the marriage: dive deeper into her BPD and the emotional disconnection of the past year, being honest with me, and not cheating.  There are many things I would love for her to work on, but those are the ones I absolutely need her to do for me to stay in the relationship.  I know where my line in the sand is: I am trying to work on day to day with her for a while while observing to see what she does.

[once removed]

- lots of emotional baggage, trust issues after her boundary violations and infidelity.  (Yes I made my own decision to cheat for a while during the worst part of her physical illness, and while she never found out, I am sure some will think I am a jerk and deserve every difficult moment I am getting now.)

no judgment here... .just acknowledgment that this is/will be an obstacle... .whats done is done, now its a matter of repairing and healing.

- incompatibility issues?  She wants open relationship so she can chase external validation and the "new shiny", but I do not have much use for open relationship. 

she is, as shes made clear, going through a transition. will it phase out or change, hard to say. sexual intimacy is often made stronger by repairing/rebuilding emotional intimacy.

And whether we whether the storm or not, I will need to build those skills in myself and shed the behaviors that were enabling and not helping me be my best self.  One of my fears was losing myself trying to preserve the relationship, but at this point I know I need to be true to myself, enforce existing boundaries consistently with consequences.  I need to heal myself from the emotional hell that has been unleashed during the last half year, and am working on radical acceptance of the situation.

all of this is very true, and its a winning attitude. i learned the tools and skills here long after my own relationship came to an end.

what would make me happiest in the long term?  is this relationship right for me?  even if it COULD work, SHOULD it?"

and in the same spirit, i think these questions will resolve themselves, but i think its a good thing to give this a fighting shot, clean up our side of the street. in a worst case scenario, it really doesnt hurt to minimize regrets and what ifs. just be realistic about what changes can be made, and how quickly.

I could totally do couples therapy again, and yeah there's a fine line with the therapist to keep them feeling heard and validated, while working the issues.  But I won't jump into couples therapy without her first demonstrating (with actions) that she is committed to putting effort into the relationship and wants to work on us.  It has been less than three weeks since she cheated on me.

what about starting small? do you think both of you might be willing to read some books together? a lot of couples here have bonded, talked over, worked to get on the same page with the book The High Conflict Couple.

https://bpdfamily.com/book-reviews/high-conflict-couple

worth a shot?

[Q-DawgVFR]

Just finished reading "the Subtle art of not Giving a (bleep)" by Mark Manson, and it touches on a few things especially relevant.  The chapter on "saying no" was particularly on the mark about my contributions to the mess with weak boundaries and consequences for breaking them.  Early in the relationship I thought I was being a team player at the time and "doing what couples" do to compromise.  Easy trap to fall down the rabbit hole.  I highly recommend the book, but just ordered "Stop Caretaking... ." by M Fjelstad to continue my self reflection and learning.

I remain open to seeing where the future takes me / us. 

Today was a mixed bag
Her having a bit of a crisis when my arranging "guy time" with a friend caused her to feel rejected and her own friendship to this person felt threatened because she wasn't automatically included. 
Positive part of day being some sexually intimate time together that we had (we have a good sex life together, and have been maintaining pretty regular sexual activity through this turbulent period. True or not, it seems to help reconnect and reset us, especially when she is feeling detached) , and she taught her first yoga class today and had 3 students, which was enough to break even with the studio rental on her first shot.  Not a bad start.
End of the day she turned dark again and started going on about how I deserved a better life, deserved better than her and what i have been stuck with, told me I am holding myself back by choosing to stay with her.

I asked her to stop at that point, asked her how she was feeling (mood took a dark turn, she said). I told her I make my own choices.  If she was trying to encourage me to reject her to have me make her choice for her, it was a waste of time because I love her and haven't given up on her. (I have a slim hope that we can work this out, but no expectations.)  Just a willingness to try as hard as she does.

As for her reading books... .  maybe.  She seems much more interested in scrolling FB and Instagram endlessly and promoting her yoga classes and liking every post online.  Little interest or effort so far in really digging into her BPD or researching how to do better.  Little accountability in her own choices or bettering herself through effort and hard work.  My friend who is the mom of a young woman with BPD says this is common to her experience.  I have been lucky enough to have a "guide" to the world of BPD through her, but a lot of it was just her sharing her experience as a parent.  I didn't really understand the dynamics of BPD in a romantic relationship until I got online here, and it has been a sobering eye opener, and I have pretty much let go of any expectations as a result.

In the midst of all this, my brother texts me to tell me he is splitting with his common law wife (who has deep seated issues of her own, having grown up in an abusive home) as she has been verbally abusive on many occasions to him, but has also been physical (I didn't know of the latter) and he confided that past clashes long ago had included a death threat from her, and another incident with her picking up an axe during an argument.  It made my blood chill instantly as they now have an adorable 2.5 year old daughter, and my first thought is safety of her and my brother.  I sent him link to out of the FOG website and encouraged him to report any physical abuse to police, as women should be accountable for their actions too, (and often aren't, due to male-shaming.)  I said I absolutely have his back and shared where I am at in my relationship also.  It felt good to be brothers looking out for each other, and I am reeling from the severity of his situation.  He is also a "giver" or caretaker type of personality: we have some self reflection to do about why we have ended up in our relationships... .

As for me having a winning attitude, it comes and goes.  I have learned that I have to "fake it till I make it" and doing something feels better than doing nothing and waiting.  As long as we are physically together, I will still act like I am trying (I am) and be invested.  I am focusing on my goal of losing a few pounds and getting in better shape: healthy eating, working out: weights, cardio, yoga - to share time with her primary interest, which I also like.  I am setting clearer boundaries for myself and being more assertive already in not taking on her mood, or accepting responsibility for anything that doesn't belong to me and it feels good to gently but firmly push back.

I still get insecurity that pops up in waves: thoughts of not being exciting enough, good enough sexually to hold her interest, physically desirable enough, and it bugs me a bit that as a good looking woman, she holds a lot more sexual power and influence than I do as a guy.  (Women get the attention without having to work hard for it: she can dress provocatively, flirt and easily find a replacement for me whenever she chooses, and I know I sound whiny and life's not fair, blah blah blah)  I am just being honest about the poison thoughts that run through my brain when I am obsessing about why this is happening to me.  On a rational level, I am desirable and I know it.  I try to breath deeply, acknowledge the anxious feeling in my guts, and let go of it, thinking of something calming or funny.  If I am thinking about her recent cheating, I think of the horribly inappropriate nickname I created in my head to distract me from picturing her with someone else: "Old Faithful" makes me smile and giggle.  No it is not done with malice, the nickname.  Sometimes you just gotta laugh about it or you will cry... .  LOL

[once removed]

The chapter on "saying no" was particularly on the mark about my contributions to the mess with weak boundaries and consequences for breaking them.  Early in the relationship I thought I was being a team player at the time and "doing what couples" do to compromise.  Easy trap to fall down the rabbit hole.

full disclosure: i have not read the book, so this is not a comment on it, but an approach of "not giving  a  " can also be a rabbit hole... .we can start "saying no" as a power play, or invalidating our partners... .we can be rigid, and sometimes we can over compensate with that approach, for having been too "soft" in the past. navigating this sort of thing is a fine line. you do need to be able to say no, and mean no.

Today was a mixed bag
Her having a bit of a crisis when my arranging "guy time" with a friend caused her to feel rejected and her own friendship to this person felt threatened because she wasn't automatically included.  

this is a great example of something you would not want to apply a "not giving a  " approach to. on one hand, you need to have your guy time. on the other, our partners are sensitive souls that need a lot of reassurance and hand holding. feelings of rejection are going to be common. there are ways of mitigating, like giving warning ahead of time/not springing it on them, like listening, like suggesting alternatives, like spending more time with friends as a couple, like "hey, why dont we do x together when i get home tonight/tomorrow/this weekend"... .all sorts of things.

in any event, howd it go? howd you handle it?

[Steps31]

I'd like to say - I'm fairly new to this board, but reading through your guys posts and seeing the amount of strength you have (whether you know on the surface or not) is inspiring... .

[Q-DawgVFR]

once removed... .  the guy time didn't end up happening that day: it ended up being a compromise "hang out as couples" with our friends (after I explained the situation a bit to him.)  We agreed to do "guy time" to BS and work on cars another day, which still hasn't happened due to work schedules.  As for the book, it is very much NOT about taking an indifferent attitude towards life, but about picking your battles with focus and ownership on the things that are truly important in life.  I am learning to say "no" gradually, in stages, and can still be flexible when it is warranted.  But being rigid on hard boundaries (my needs) is not something I will lose sleep over.  It isn't what you say, but how you say it.  And it is overdue.

I did go out for some "guy time" today with one of my close pals (a short excursion for coffee and BS as I had to get home to work nights) and she was OK with me leaving her behind, but she did immediately want to know how it went when I got home.  And she's been really pushy recently with her chatting with this pal on her own, to the point where he had enough of her fakeness (he also knows how rotten she has treated me, especially lately) and has recently unfriended her / blocked her, which I hadn't gotten around to telling her about yet.  I had a good conversation with my friend about boundaries, what healthy relationships should look like, and logistical questions about divorce (as I think it is probably where it's headed: she isn't behaving like someone who is working on it - she acts sad and checked out a lot of the time, but perks up and puts on a good show around other people such as friends or strangers.)

Today she was very affectionate.  Expressed sorry for all she has been putting me through lately.  Said I deserved better than the experience I have had, and that she doesn't deserve me and I am too good for her.  I told her I don't view it in those terms, hugged her tightly, and reassured her that we would find our way through it somehow, and that we both would be OK.

Tonight at work, she surprised me a bit by talking with a bit more self realization: she indicated her recent unhappiness is perhaps a bit misdirected towards our relationship when in fact the problem is with her feeling of lack of purpose and direction in life, lack of self.  Midlife period, on disability, and unable to do the nursing job she used to find stimulating and enjoyable, I can empathize with her feeling of aimlessness.  And she has worked hard to make healthy choices for her body and has gotten her figure back and is enjoying the validation and attention that has provided her.  And it doesn't excuse her recent behavior, but I felt a little pang of hope about her self awareness and ownership of finding her way... . 

The hope pretty much evaporated a couple hours later when her texts turned from "I need to figure out my purpose in life... .that is what all this upheaval is about" to "I don't know how to find myself", "My gut says I need to go out searching for my identity" and "I feel like I've grown as much as I can here... .I don't know how to push past that."  Sounding pretty doom and gloom once again... .but I am trying not to worry about it, as I know I will find a way to be OK no matter what happens.

She had a therapy appointment last week and has been working on a decision chart (stay or go) and after doing her homework, seems to understand there is no magic answer for her in any of this: she is simply exchanging one set of problems for different ones.  Which may or may not help her or us in the long run.  But she was successful in arranging another therapy appointment for herself for this Saturday.  She wants to hurry up and figure this all out for herself.

We had a logistical conversation a few days ago about splitting... .  she asked me a couple questions and I answered and asked a few of my own and shared some feelings.  I said I don't really want a split and don't enjoy these kinds of conversations.  Voiced that while she says she was choosing to work on us, she hasn't been acting like it at all: she's been acting miserable at times, has been checked out whenever it is more convenient to ignore her life (she's found a new person to immerse herself into chatting online with: just a yoga follower (young man from India who seems to have a bit of infatuation with her on social media), and there's a lot of other distraction she has been choosing to help her avoid being present.  I called her on observing this behavior in a calm and non-judgemental way, giving several examples.  She agreed she has been in limbo and not really engaged as she wants to be, wants to figure it all out for herself where to go from here, and that she still wants to figure out how to find her way and happiness while keep our family intact... .

I am thankful two more therapy appointments are coming up fast

If our marriage doesn't survive, I just hope we can stay amicable about it all as we go separate ways, and that she doesn't act like I owe her something more and go for everything she can financially while dumping the kids on me.  I am cautiously optimistic, but many have tried and failed, as it only takes one person to sink the effort and turn it into a greedy mess.

[once removed]

have those therapy appointments happened?

[Q-DawgVFR]

I'm a bit sporadic with my time on the forum here, as I work shift work and lots has been going on, so here is an update:

Yes, the therapy appointments have happened.  She had gone to a couple of appointments in the last week (and has another one scheduled for Monday to discuss recent developments at home: more on that below), while I had my own session.  We do share a bit with each other about our sessions.

She shared that while working through her "finding herself" with her therapist, she was given the assignment to come up with 3 memories from her past (uncomfortable ones, dealing with shame, etc) so she did.  A couple days ago on Friday, she underwent another hypnosis session and processed the feelings of those awful unpleasant memories for herself, and her adult self talked to her child and adolescent self about the experiences (shame, rejection, etc) that she had.  She went to yoga that night and tried to also physically detach from it (and be with her non-judgemental yoga friends, who she shares and confides in about her personal struggles.)  She talked to a couple of her friends about it.

My session consisted of about 9 months worth of updates to my therapist (limited funds and coverage in my benefits, I had decided to focus all the therapy dollars on my wife until the new year.  New year = new budget, and I am taking care of myself more in 2019) .  So I basically told my therapist a lot of the details from my first post in this thread, as most of them are recent developments over the last 6 months.  We talked about the BPD, the behavior, how I felt about it all, my learnings from the experience, about finding this site and the wonderful helpful people on here, and how I am getting a much better understanding of how BPD works, and how the BPD behaviors have changed and escalated.  Talked about some possibilities of where things are headed, what my boundaries and expectations are, my plans for some of those contingencies.  Talked about the possibility of a separation / divorce as well, and about how I have been processing and grieving at various points through the past several months.  The big "aha" moment was on Dec 22, just before Christmas, and a little over a week after she cheated on me.  That was when I got through the circular loop of grieving I was in and finally hit the "acceptance" stage of knowing and accepting the situation for what it was/is. 

After reading a lot on this site, I have recognized some of my contributing / enabling behavior from the past, and wish to learn from those choices and experiences.  I wanted to examine my personality further and ask some questions about my personality traits and whether I am leaning towards any personality disorders of my own.  Sometimes BPD feed into narcissistic relationships, and I am self aware that I have a few narcissistic and OCD qualities. I wanted to know if any of these qualities were abnormal, serious, or of concern.  After talking a bit with my therapist (she wanted to know why I thought I might be a problem), I cornered her into sharing her opinion a bit: that I am pretty well within the realm of normal, and overall pretty self aware and emotionally intelligent.  She basically said while she thinks I can benefit from working on the parts of my personality that I want to improve (healthy boundaries of being a generous "giver" type of person, working on assertiveness, regaining my confidence that has been shaken by recent behavior of wife, avoiding "projecting" and a few other thinking traps), she thinks I am overall pretty normal and healthy and sees no reason to be overly concerned about my part in things.  Most of what has happened is about my wife and her struggles.  It isn't about me.  That was good information to hear, and helped me be more forgiving of myself in how things have unfolded.

I feel about as ready as I ever will to deal with whatever comes next. 

[Q-DawgVFR]

Things got pretty real and raw yesterday, however.

Wife texted me at work and said she wanted to propose a "trial separation". 

I am interested in hearing opinions of others on how to do this successfully, in a healthy way.  Outcome is not in my control, but I want to set healthy boundaries and give it a decent shot at success, so that I can sleep well knowing I did what I could in our relationship.  I am not overly optimistic of a positive outcome, but am open-minded to the possibility.  She is high functioning and we have worked well enough over our marriage that I believe there is possibility of a life together that we both can be happy with (depending on her outlook and behavior.)

I knew there was a strong possibility that she would ask to leave someday soon, but I was still caught off guard by the speed at which it happened, as the past week seemed like it was going decently well.  I felt blindsided and rejected.  It hurt to think about her possibly cheating/sleeping around, partying like she is 20 again, being quite happy without me or the kids, and deciding she wants to make the situation permanent.  (Remember I tend to ruminate and project)

After I got home and the kids were in bed, we had a long talk for about an hour and a half, and flushed out some details.  She has a strong gut feeling that she NEEDS to be on her own to find herself and work on herself, at least for a while.  She wants to prove to herself that she can stand on her own (she has always been pretty codependant on others) and discover more about who she is as a person, without distractions (or having to juggle the identity of wife or mother).  She wants to do this. 

While I voiced again that I love her, care about her deeply, and don't want to see her go, we talked it out and came to an agreement:
- one month trial separation, beginning in Feb (if the place is available, but if not, she would look at other options), with possibility of extending another 1-3 weeks if required and agreed upon.
- no cheating: neither of us get to see other people.  If I am going to be inconvenienced and uncomfortable, I feel she should be giving something up too.  And I will not be disrespected by allowing other people to "test drive" her.  She has been with other sexual partners, before, and during our marriage (with and without permission) so there is no mystery or discovery she needs to find, sexually.  She knows what is out there and I made it crystal clear that any kissing or sexual touching / contact will constitute cheating and I will not be willing to reconcile our relationship if she chooses to be selfish and disrespectful towards me.  I also said that if she chooses to end us, it should be respectful and clean break, and if she treats me with respect and integrity, I can be amicable about splitting, if it comes to that.  Which version of me she gets, will entirely depend on her behavior.  I won't be doing favors or remain close with someone who treats me like garbage.
- no contact with me, except for matters dealing with kids.  Towards the end of the one month, we may start to resume more texting / calling and transition back towards time together, if that is what she and I choose to do.
- commit to the ENTIRE month.  If she decides a week in while having a ___ty day that she doesn't want to work on us, wants to get involved with someone else or be alone, I want her to wait it out.  Make sure that feeling / opinion is consistent and that is truly what she wants.  Hopefully this results in no hasty decisions or cheating behavior.  She knows the accountability is on her to set healthy boundaries for herself and respect mine (I am not flexible on the no fooling around with others condition)
- She is to set her monthly budget based entirely on HER income alone.  I felt this was fair, as she earns about a third of what I do (on her disability benefits) and will have very few expenses other than rent and food.  While she will still have access to our joint account, she is to be adding / tracking her spending and NOT go over her budget.  I will be carrying the house expenses and the kids (like it probably will be if we permanently split), so we agreed this was fair financially for now.

And I am interested in hearing from others.

Am I missing or overlooking anything?

I talked to my wife's sister yesterday about this recent development (she had a trial separation back in Oct with her husband, after lots of talking and frustration and her not getting necessary behavior changes from him, and they reconciled after a month and so far things seem to be a lot better for them.)  She was the one who suggested the rules about the no-contact, exception of the kids.

[once removed]

it sounds like youve thought it through. i probably dont need to tell you that therapeutic separations have mixed results, and some relationships have been helped, some hurt.

what are the living arrangements? whos going where? have either of you discussed it with your therapist?

youll also need a sounding board when it comes to ruminations, and support in general.

we have a pretty good thread on therapeutic separations here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686

[Q-DawgVFR]

it sounds like youve thought it through. i probably dont need to tell you that therapeutic separations have mixed results, and some relationships have been helped, some hurt.

what are the living arrangements? whos going where? have either of you discussed it with your therapist?

youll also need a sounding board when it comes to ruminations, and support in general.

we have a pretty good thread on therapeutic separations here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=141686

Thank you for the link to separation topic.  Will give it a read.

She has discussed her intentions with therapist today.  She is in process of finding a place (she will leave) as she's wanting solitary time and to possibly exit the relationship.  I will be handling the kids pretty much all the time without her and I still work and look after the things around the house.

She has offered to help out with watching the kids while I have overlap between school being out and me getting home from work on a few days.  She was offering to help with night shifts I work also, but I feel thats still spending too much time at home for it to be a good separation.  I will find other ways, such as my parents help or take a few days off work to manage the situation.  I wasn't the only one who voiced this opinion.  One of her close friends also suggested she keep her distance during the month.

She shared details of her session today: Her therapist asked several good challenge questions to differentiate what is different about this period of self reflection compared to the one last month where she left and cheated on me the same day... . He questioned her about social plans, about how she will make smart choices to not cheat as per our agreement, what will she do if she does feel like shes attracted to someone and wants to be impulsive and act on it.  He asked detailed questions right down to which clothes will she pack (is she packing her suggestive clothing choices to get attention?)

Prior to the therapy session about the separation, she and I had a really good talk about things.  We talked about where our heads are at, and both feel more positive for it.

I feel she is being pretty honest with me at the moment with her intentions to actually do some serious self work with the month she has.  She is not planning on partying it up and being a social butterfly, but wants to read books and websites and learn about herself, about finding purpose and happiness in life, about working on assignments to nurture her inner child who is still hurt and trapped in childhood and adolescent trauma (she has been working on these topics with her therapist).  She was upfront about plans to do a birthday party with her single friend (who has been a bad influence at times) but said she has no other plans socially and she wants to attend with another friend (to help keep her honest) and she wants to act with integrity and honor our agreement for the duration of the month, no exceptions.  

She has come to some pretty big conclusions today which surprised me: Admitting her dependence on social media and past flirting / cheating for attention, distraction and external validation, instead of facing problems within herself and being uncomfortable.  I felt this was pretty big of her, as the last time I discussed the social media addiction (she spends at least 2-4 hours a day doing that, but sometimes as much as double) she had argued and justified her actions and I said my piece once and dropped it when I knew she wasn't receptive to my concerns.

I had told her once before this came up that I would not be willing to do a trial separation, as I felt it would be catering too much to her "test driving the single life", but after our talk, I feel it might be worth a shot.

I know odds aren't over favorable with trial separations but my sister in law recently had a 3 week period with her husband away and they reconciled (she felt their marriage was likely over when she asked him to leave), and they have been together again for several months and things seem to be going ok.  

Also friend down the street did separation of about 3 months and managed to reconcile, with undiagnosed mental health issues and cheating behavior at play (similar enough situation to the one I am in, and I do hope to talk to him about what they did to find their success) and they have been back together for a couple of years now.

EDIT: after reading link, I now understand concept of "trial separation" vs "therapeutic separation" and it is definitely the second option we are trying to accomplish.  So please understand that is what I am referring to, above.  Thanks for the education