BPD and sexual intimacy

[Purplex]

My BPDbf can’t have sex with me anymore. This was a gradual change over two years. When we met we became FWB and our sex life was fine. The closer we grew the less sex we had. I stopped initiating when I realized that he wasn’t really interested anymore. Now our bedroom is dead for months. And I am frustrated. Somehow his sex drive shuts down when his feelings grow stronger. He had the same issue in his last relationship. His general libido is fine - he is actually very promiscuous like many pwBPD and would have no problem to sleep with any other women that he finds even remotely attractive. Yay.  

We talk about it a lot and he is aware that this is connected to his BPD. He is in therapy and we both want to work on solving this issue.

He often reassures me that it has nothing to do with me. It’s his fear of intimacy at play and he has performance anxiety because of that. I think that - like many pwBPD - he has a distorted relation to sex in general. He uses it as a tool to connect with people on a superficial level and he feels like this is (or was) the only thing he has to offer and is good at. For him, there is no smooth transition between tenderness and sex. There is either caring intimacy like cuddling or horny intercourse without real passion or love. Obviously I don’t qualify for the latter anymore and that’s not what I want to settle for anyway.

He knows all of that and he is desperate to make a change. We tried to schedule a time for sex. He racked his brain and made a plan how to initiate. Stuff didn’t quite work out as planned. He was devastated and I had to comfort him. Sex was off the table. I was sad and disappointed and left in the morning because I didn’t want to take it out on him although we had planned to spend the weekend together.
I can’t help but feel dismissed and undesirable. I am too hurt and too afraid of rejection to initiate anymore. And I feel stupid for putting up with this.

Any ideas on how to approach this?

I read about a lot of BPD partners who are highly sexual or use their sexuality to manipulate and nons who lose interest in sex because of general dissatisfaction in their r/s. Is sexual intimacy an issue in your relationship as well?  

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[itsmeSnap]

His general libido is fine - he is actually very promiscuous like many pwBPD
[... .]
I think that - like many pwBPD - he has a distorted relation to sex in general. He uses it as a tool to connect with people on a superficial level and he feels like this is (or was) the only thing he has to offer and is good at

My gf used it as a way to feel desired/worthy when she had been rejected, maybe that's why it feels "superficial"; its not about the connection, its about feeling good about themselves.

now instead of demonstrating his worth as a sexual attractive person, it becomes a "liability" of connection, being vulnerable that you would leave him.

Obviously I don’t qualify for the latter anymore and that’s not what I want to settle for anyway.

I interpret it to mean that he actually cares too deeply about you, and feels sex as making himself too vulnerable to you. That doesn't feel good for him, so he avoids it, not because "meh" or "why bother", but maybe because "wow what do I do now?, what if she realizes? what if she doesn't like me back? what if I'm not good enough?"

He knows all of that and he is desperate to make a change

That's being miles ahead of the rest already, so great start 

I can’t help but feel dismissed and undesirable. I am too hurt and too afraid of rejection to initiate anymore. And I feel stupid for putting up with this.

Perspective, purplex!

I'm taking what you said here at face value and with a bit of "reading between the lines", so I might be off the mark here, but from this I gather he actually wants it, he's told you, you are desirable to him still. He can't perform, he's feeling anxious. its not about you, its about him.

If tenderness is still happening, I say maintain it if you still feel love for him, that might help keep the grudges and bitterness over the issue at bay. If he feels that's "safe enough", you have something to work with to wedge sex back into your life.

As to your own needs, I suggest exploring some "creative outlets" for yourself so the need doesn't overwhelm you while you work on your relationship. Just note that a new "tool" can be misinterpreted as it being his "replacement", though if you don't live together that shouldn't be too much of a problem (seems irrational right? but then again, BPD). If waiting is not an issue, then business as usual.

we became FWB

By calling him "My BPDbf" I assume the relationship became "official", you might need to explore what it means for him, there is a fear of inadequacy there I feel.

My suggestion is: explore the anxiety, your and his. what changed recently? Why is the conclusion of "lack of sex" to feel undesirable/inadequate yourself? you used to have sex no problem before, so when did you start noticing the reduction. You became more connected/close I imagine, but in what way?

[Purplex]

My gf used it as a way to feel desired/worthy when she had been rejected, maybe that's why it feels "superficial"; its not about the connection, its about feeling good about themselves.

Yes probably. From what he told me it's also about leaving a good impression, giving a memorable performance. He puts a lot of pressure on himself.

now instead of demonstrating his worth as a sexual attractive person, it becomes a "liability" of connection, being vulnerable that you would leave him.

Exactly! I totally understand this thinking pattern, but it's still frustrating. If anything, the lack of sexual intimacy would be the reason for me to leave. I am missing something that I am not willing to sacrifice. 

I interpret it to mean that he actually cares too deeply about you, and feels sex as making himself too vulnerable to you. That doesn't feel good for him, so he avoids it, not because "meh" or "why bother", but maybe because "wow what do I do now?, what if she realizes? what if she doesn't like me back? what if I'm not good enough?"

Your interpretation is on point. Also "what if I can't perform? why does this have to be an issue as well? I thought sex was the one thing I don't have to worry about. Why is it always me? Why can nothing ever go the way I want it to go?"

That's being miles ahead of the rest already, so great start 

I know and I am very happy about that. His ability to self reflect and communicate is the reason I stayed for so long and don't want to give up yet. I am hopeful that things will improve. But I also don't want to sell myself under value. The dead bedroom is an issue that has been around for almost one year. One year of emotional struggle for a relationship that isn't even official and entails many other issues as well. He feels like he is holding me back. He is, in a way but I still believe it could be worth it. That I am able to take him with me step by step. And although I didn't tell him that explicitly, he knows that my condition for staying is that he works on his issues. But I am glad to help when he needs my support. Those are issues he has to solve eventually if he wants to have any successful romantic relationship. So I don't feel like I expect too much.

I'm taking what you said here at face value and with a bit of "reading between the lines", so I might be off the mark here, but from this I gather he actually wants it, he's told you, you are desirable to him still. He can't perform, he's feeling anxious. its not about you, its about him.

Right. But knowing that it's about him opens the gates for a lot of self-devaluation and despair. So if I tell him how I feel and he can't provide anything to change that, he feels more miserable than I do and I end up comforting both of us. I guess that's the emotional caretaker part. But right now I am missing something to cling to and recover myself. This date could have been an opportunity to gather some strength and confidence. But it cost me even more energy instead. I guess I am just disappointed and exhausted.
He proposed to use viagra, but I doubt that this will solve anything in the long run. It's obviously no physiological issue.

If tenderness is still happening, I say maintain it if you still feel love for him, that might help keep the grudges and bitterness over the issue at bay. If he feels that's "safe enough", you have something to work with to wedge sex back into your life.

We both enjoy non-sexual intimacy a lot so we will keep it up without doubt. He actually told me that he does feel very save when we cuddle. But he also said that sex is the last thing he is thinking about in those moments. While I feel like sex would be the natural progression, at least on some occations, he doesn't make this connection at all. So he gets the intimacy and closeness he wants and I have to suppress my needs on a regular basis. I proposed to him to try and get sexual from there but he thinks that's impossible. My go to medium is touch but since he doesn't even remotely respond to that I am at a loss. He also can't (or doesn't want to) tell me what turns him on instead.

As to your own needs, I suggest exploring some "creative outlets" for yourself so the need doesn't overwhelm you while you work on your relationship. Just note that a new "tool" can be misinterpreted as it being his "replacement", though if you don't live together that shouldn't be too much of a problem (seems irrational right? but then again, BPD). If waiting is not an issue, then business as usual.
By calling him "My BPDbf" I assume the relationship became "official", you might need to explore what it means for him, there is a fear of inadequacy there I feel.

Waiting is an issue, but I am afraid no creative outlets will help here  What I need is somebody who can show me that he wants me and that I can connect with emotionally and sexually. I want him to be that person. But if I start looking for that elsewhere it's over.   
We are still not official actually, but I felt it didn't matter here and I didn't want to make things unnecessary complicated. We are exclusive at the moment, this is the important part.   

My suggestion is: explore the anxiety, your and his. what changed recently? Why is the conclusion of "lack of sex" to feel undesirable/inadequate yourself? you used to have sex no problem before, so when did you start noticing the reduction. You became more connected/close I imagine, but in what way?

Good suggestion, I will try to bring it up again. From my perspective: what chaged is that I had some low points, initiated conversations, got more assertive and put more pressure on him/us, because I don't want a relationship where I feel miserable on a regular basis.
My self-worth is okay I guess but I am not exactly the most confident person around so if I don't get any active affirmation in such a long time and can't properly express my own desire it's difficult to NOT think that there is something wrong with me. And for me it's not only lack of sex, it's lack of touch, closeness and (passionate) love.
I am not sure about the reduction. I think it had to do with me getting more involved in his life. Maybe the first full stop happened after I told him that I needed more commitment.
On occasion, I'll ask him what he thinks and report back.


Thanks for your input, Snap 

[415]

somewhat similar issue as me, except in reverse (i might have told you this already on a different thread).  My wife's almost sole reason she cites for leaving is lack of intimacy.  She tells me that she's hypersexual and i don't desire her, etc.  However she's also went to our Dr. saying that she has no sex drive.  The Dr. did tests and confirmed that she wouldn't.   One day she has no sex drive and the next she does but what is consistent is that lack of intimacy is always blamed on me.  She wanted a book on Tantra.  She got mad at me b/c I didn't go get it (why can't she?).  I even set up a special area (based on the book) that we could come together, whether it be just holding each other, massage, sex or whatever.  She said "i can see that you are trying but i'm not just not ready".  I really don't think they know what sex is a lot of the time and they use it as an excuse.  This whole time that she kicked me to the corner of our relationship she claims that i'm not passionate and don't give her enough sex. At the same time she told me 3 times that the thought of me touching her "makes her want to vomit".  The therapist picked up on that and told her that she's contradicting herself.  I can't figure it out.  But she's gone now, probably finding the first person that she'll be sure will give her this fantasy life full of sex and free from stress.

[theuproar]

I've had a very similar experience.  When my partner and I first started sleeping together, she was very, very promiscuous and had multiple male and female partners.  We talked about that and I was more than ok with it, at the time.  We had a great sex life and I felt attractive, appreciated, and sexy.  It was great.

Then, after we decided to be official and monogamous, her sex drive turned off all but completely.  And the sex has become very bland and boring.  Whereas she used to hunger to please me, now she does literally nothing.  I have to do all the work and make sure I do enough to please myself, because she offers zero effort.  It's not unlike masturbating to be honest, just with better "scenery". 

She has told me before that she is not a very sexual person, and that she had very little sex with her previous partners, but that's clearly not entirely true.  She might have had little sex with a few of them, but I know several from which she could not get enough.  She claims she's very attracted to me and that it has to do with her insecurities, but I don't know what to believe.  I really don't.  The reality is that she's both wildly hypersexual and hyposexual.  She doesn't seem to have a consistent sexual behavior.  I know part of her past was very promiscuous (multiple partners, group sex, etc.) and part of it was not.

I don't know what to do with that, and I don't know how to not take that personally, when she clearly had more desire for other people, and even had more desire for me at one time.  Some of it is clearly related to BPD (the distortions are clear when she talks about it).

[Purplex]

I really don't think they know what sex is a lot of the time

I agree 415! At least they don't seem to have a concept of how multifaceted sex can be and many pwBPD obviously have a very distorted perception of their own sexual needs and what they expect from a partner.

She claims she's very attracted to me and that it has to do with her insecurities, but I don't know what to believe.
I don't know what to do with that, and I don't know how to not take that personally, when she clearly had more desire for other people, and even had more desire for me at one time. 

I can very much relate to that  theuproar! I do believe that we can take them by their word and that their attraction to us is what holds them back sexually. Its twisted, sad and so frustrating but I think it's the truth. Maybe it's because we know them so well and are able to look behind the facade, that they feel the need to seal this last part of intimacy away to protect themselves.
I think it would be easier if he just had a low sex drive and no interest in sex with anybody. But the discrepancy in desire between me and others is what hurts the most. It really requires a lot of self-confidence to tolerate that without looking for faults in myself.   

[once removed]

He racked his brain and made a plan how to initiate. Stuff didn’t quite work out as planned. He was devastated and I had to comfort him. Sex was off the table. I was sad and disappointed and left in the morning because I didn’t want to take it out on him although we had planned to spend the weekend together.

without prying too much, im wondering what didnt work out as planned? as a dude, i know schedules and thinking about your partners expectations can be a lot of pressure, and if a plan goes wrong, even more so.

you mentioned performance issues... .are they physical (you mentioned viagra)? do/did things just get super awkward? both?

[415]

I think it's easy to lose desire or to overthink because they aren't good in real and deep relationships?  Not sure if you guys have ever watched the show Outlander?  If not, it's based on a series romantic/fantasy book.   My wife actually said that she wanted a relationship like that.  I get what she's saying but its a scripted TV show.  They also travel back in time... .does she want that too?  They're in love, rarely fight, always have sex.   It's like when people hook up in a bar with a stranger.  That person is all into you hanging off of every word you are saying.  You don't have any negative views of them, i.e maybe they never clean up after themselves, maybe they always leave the toilet seat up, never help around the house or whatever.  It's probably why they start out thinking you are the world then eventually push you away when real life enters the relationship.

He racked his brain and made a plan how to initiate. Stuff didn’t quite work out as planned.

Overthinking, expectations, or change of plans can throw you off if you are nervous about something.  I didn't get a chance to try it with my wife but i did pick up a book on Tanta when she told me to (she never read it... .surprise!).  I resisted it at first as i didn't have a clear idea of what it was.  The content actually seemed really good at rebuilding intimacy, trust and building real closeness (rather than being a how to sex book). 

[Purplex]

without prying too much, im wondering what didnt work out as planned? as a dude, i know schedules and thinking about your partners expectations can be a lot of pressure, and if a plan goes wrong, even more so.

We played a boardgame and he proposed that the winner shoud have a free wish. He lost. His wish was part of the plan.

you mentioned performance issues... .are they physical (you mentioned viagra)? do/did things just get super awkward? both?

Yes he is afraid that he can't perform physically. This happened the last time we tried. It wasn't really awkward from my perspective because we worked around it. The awkward one was the last try before that (months ago). This time we didn't even try because his mood was so down after the game.

I don't know, maybe Viagra would be an option, but I am afraid that it would only shift the problem.

[Purplex]

I think it's easy to lose desire or to overthink because they aren't good in real and deep relationships?

Yes I think all of this is more or less alien to him. He told me he only once had passionate and intimate sex in his life, it was the first time with his ex and similar to the hook up situation you describe.
I only heard of Outlander but haven't seen it. Sometimes I ask myself if maybe my ideas on sex are utopic. But then again I know what I am feeling and I know that I was able to express that mutually in the past with other partners. Of course it can't be always like that, but maybe once in a while. And at the moment I would be content with anything but nothing. I just want to be intimate with him in any way. 

Overthinking, expectations, or change of plans can throw you off if you are nervous about something.  I didn't get a chance to try it with my wife but i did pick up a book on Tanta when she told me to (she never read it... .surprise!).  I resisted it at first as i didn't have a clear idea of what it was.  The content actually seemed really good at rebuilding intimacy, trust and building real closeness (rather than being a how to sex book). 

Okay this actually sounds interesting! I will check it out, thanks for the hint!

[itsmeSnap]

Maybe it's because we know them so well and are able to look behind the facade, that they feel the need to seal this last part of intimacy away to protect themselves.

That sounds to me like you are coming from a perspective of him having ulterior motives and/or not being himself with you. You might want to explore this, sounds like you don't trust him right out of the gate.

We played a boardgame [... .]

I've played some games back in the day and they can encourage some exploration. I just hope you weren't playing "monopoly"  that game wrecks even the most solid friendships and family bonds, can't imagine what it would do to a couple 

Yes he is afraid that he can't perform physically

I'm no doctor, he might want to talk it through with an actual physician. It sounds to me more like anxiety than "plumbing".

Sometimes I ask myself if maybe my ideas on sex are utopic

Now that you've brought it up:

I think you do have a bit of a hard time reconciling intimacy and "passionate sex", and what it means to have one or the other with him, or both but as separate things. It does sound a bit like "fairytale or bust!", and you're kind of on "bust mode".

It is something to aspire to, but don't lose sleep (or sex!) over it. Its supposed to be a good time for both of you, go back to the time before there were consequences (mentally, not as in "break up with him" ).

But then again I know what I am feeling and I know that I was able to express that mutually in the past with other partners.

Well there's a point of comparison, what's different between now and then, and why despite having this, that other relationship came to an end/didn't develop further? if there are more important "overriding factors" in a relationship, then hopefully you won't lose sight of them over this issue.

[Skip]

You may want to back off the discussion. When performance becomes part of the discussion in a relationship it can be counter productive as that focus can make it even more difficult to perform. Scheduling has the same effect.

Generally, if what you are doing is not working, try something else.

Let go of the frustration (that is also not helping)

As for the Viagra, I'd try it. Or initiating at 5 AM. Or taking a more active role in yourself when together.

[zachira]

You might want to read one of Diana Richardson's books on Tantric Sex. She is my favorite author for sexual information and an expert on teaching couples how to have loving connected sex.

[Copycat2018]

Purplex,
Thank you for the post.
I found a lot of insight in both the first post and the following exchanges.
I have a similar problem meaning that our sex life is dead.

I keep thinking about the issues and looking for solutions just like you all are.

One thing i am working on for myself is to differentiate myself from him. Not only in a sexual sense but in allother areas. This is very difficult. What do i mean by this? I am trying not to expect him to validate me as a person, as a sexual being, as a partner in a debate. This is very difficult because he is undiagnosed, not in therapy so all i can do is work this for myself. All the while he takes a lot of things even disagreeing about a celebrity' s action, personally. In other words he is pushing me to have the same opinion as he has.

That is where i am at right now, trying to find myself rather then conforming to his desires. If he does not like what i do or think i tell him we are different people, we do not need to feel the same way.
He does not like to hear this but it is helping me.

I am writing this as a response to what you experience when the plan does not work.

It is clear that you both care about each other but you need perhaps some different outlook, or a better understanding of where you both are coming from when it comes to intimacy.

It is my feeling that a BPD is craving intimacy but at the same time it scares him incredibly.

This is not only true of BPDs but of all people. I mean that a non BPD can also have different hangups that need to be uncovered and challenged .

I do not know whether this is achieveable without an outstanding sex therapist or other third observer who puts in a lot of work to see what really is going on and works to challenge both parties. I do not know whether we can do this ourselves.
However it is worth a try.

[Purplex]

Snap:

That sounds to me like you are coming from a perspective of him having ulterior motives and/or not being himself with you. You might want to explore this, sounds like you don't trust him right out of the gate.

Don't forget that we are having conversations on this issue so my conclusions are based on what he is telling me. It would be unfair to say he has ulterior motives, there definitely is something holding him back but it's not like this is a concious decision. He wants to know what's going on as well, he really has no clue. So we both try to figure out where this inhibition stems from and discuss our theories. His last one is, that in his experience women he slept with are more likely to leave, so unless he knows somebody for several years it's always a risk especially if this person is very important to him, like me. I do trust his intentions, I don't completly trust his ability to control his impulses. 

Well... .you guessed right we did indeed play monopoly  I knew this wasn't the best idea but he was adamant about playing this and no other game so I just went with it...

I'm no doctor, he might want to talk it through with an actual physician. It sounds to me more like anxiety than "plumbing".

Yes I am like 99% sure this isn't physical. He used to have no issues with other women and it also works just fine when he is by himself. He said that he sometimes gets horny as soon as I am gone, but once I come back his libido is out the window again.

go back to the time before there were consequences

I would love to do that and I am ready. He isn't. Our sex life at the beginning was fine, I would be absolutely satisfied if we could just go back to that.

I guess these difficulties just prompted me to think a lot about sex in general, what role it plays in my life and what role I want it to play. How my ideal sex life would look like. This is not what I expect from him right now or at any point in time for that matter. It's more like an optional goal that we as a couple could work towards to make a good thing even better. And the same applies for his ideals of course.

I am convinced that similar preferences and good communication can make for a mostly awesome sex life. And I do think that we actually have both of that covered in theory. We just need to find a way to re-start the practice.

Regarding my other relationships the most obvious difference is of course that we had a sex life. I agree that this is not everything and that there are other things that are more important but for me it is still essential and I feel like i am too young to make such a drastic compromise especially since I don't have any obligations towards him besides treating him fairly and beeing honest (e.g. marriage or kids).
My last relationship went downhill pretty fast because he was immature, phony  and unreliable. Constructive communication was impossible because he didn't feel the need to change any of that. I lost my respect for him and this also killed every desire I had for him. Of course I still stayed way too long out of obligation.
Those are no issues with my current bf, communication is good, he is honest and invested and I have a ton of respect for him because he is always giving his best and truly wants to become the best version of himself.

Skip:

You may want to back off the discussion. When performance becomes part of the discussion in a relationship it can be counter productive as that focus can make it even more difficult to perform. Scheduling has the same effect.

I didn't put any pressure on him for the first 2 or 3 months after we reconciled in september, but since there was no progress at all and I started to feel miserable I finally adressed it. I only recently proposed scheduling, because as far as I know it is a common approach in sex therapy and seems to work for many couples. My proposal was to try or talk about it at least once when I spend the weekend at his place. I didn't push for a specific date, he was the one who set it himself.
So from my point of view we are already trying something else, because what we did before was not working.

Let go of the frustration (that is also not helping)

I know and I tried and it worked for some time (this is an issue for about a year now). But since the relationship is draining so much of my energy, I struggle to get back to a level where I am able to stabilize myself enough to keep all of this from getting to me.

As for the Viagra, I'd try it. Or initiating at 5 AM. Or taking a more active role in yourself when together.

He told me multiple times that he doesn't think me beeing more active would be a good idea. It would feel like a violation of his boudaries. He was raped by women in the past and I am terrified of triggering him in that way. He can't even tell me what he would like me to do to initiate, so my hands are pretty much tied in that regard.

Copycat:
I understand what you are saying about differentiating ourselves. It helps that we don't live together and only see each other on the weekends. We text a lot in the meantime and I think texting is a great method to have conversations or discussions without loosing yourself. I feel close and connected but I don't feel as overwhelmed as I sometimes do when I am with him. And I am working on finding myself in those situations too. But for me, beeing myself also includes paying attention to my needs and standing up for them. And I do have the need for sexual intimacy. Caring for myself in that regard either means working with him on making that possible in a reasonable timeframe, or ultimately ending the relationship and looking for it elsewhere. I can't create that on my own and I can't ignore or overwrite the feelings of craving, rejection and loneliness. And I can see how those reoccurring feelings have already taken a toll on my mental health and I don't want to expose myself to that for an indefinite period of time. I was doing just fine when I was single before all that and I don't need a relationship that leaves me an emotional wrack again and again.

I found an institution that apparently offers free counseling for couples, he would be up for it so I hope we will get an appointment. We wouldn't be able to afford a therapist otherwise.

This weekend we had another unrelated conflict that still isn't completely resolved and I am afraid the aftermath is going to set us back on this issue as well... .sigh

[Skip]

Skip:

You may want to back off the discussion. When performance becomes part of the discussion in a relationship it can be counter productive as that focus can make it even more difficult to perform. Scheduling has the same effect.

I didn't put any pressure on him for the first 2 or 3 months after we reconciled in september, but since there was no progress at all and I started to feel miserable I finally adressed it. I only recently proposed scheduling, because as far as I know it is a common approach in sex therapy and seems to work for many couples. My proposal was to try or talk about it at least once when I spend the weekend at his place. I didn't push for a specific date, he was the one who set it himself.
So from my point of view we are already trying something else, because what we did before was not working.

Let go of the frustration (that is also not helping)

I know and I tried and it worked for some time (this is an issue for about a year now). But since the relationship is draining so much of my energy, I struggle to get back to a level where I am able to stabilize myself enough to keep all of this from getting to me.

As for the Viagra, I'd try it. Or initiating at 5 AM. Or taking a more active role in yourself when together.

He told me multiple times that he doesn't think me beeing more active would be a good idea. It would feel like a violation of his boudaries. He was raped by women in the past and I am terrified of triggering him in that way. He can't even tell me what he would like me to do to initiate, so my hands are pretty much tied in that regard.

Just a couple of quick follow-ups... .

1. Pressure. Pressure to perform can make it impossible to perform, so you can easily get into a no-win cycle. It's like being on stage. Trying Viagra, alcohol, etc. and things that break down the the self-consciousness will help. Your's is not an uncommon thing. 2. Scheduling This is not for people that have trouble engaging, it is for people who are pre-occupied with life and don't make time. A family with 3 young kids in a small house is a great example. 3. Being more active with yourself. The keywords in this sentence are "mit sich selbst". Men are visual creatures. The key here, is to do this in ways that he finds seductive. You definitely don't want to do this is a way that is a turn off.  Again your's is not an uncommon thing.

I think most men can share stories of how they failed to perform when they felt too much focus or pressure... .someone who wanted more, someone who they really cared about, the big night after waiting a year, etc. Once that switch is flipped off, its a very delicate thing to get switch it back on. Sounds weird, but true.

In the case of pwBPD - feelings run even deeper than most so that makes this even more tricky.

I'm not suggesting that you sacrifice yourself. You have your needs too. These are just realities that you are dealing with and no matter how frustrating, they are still realities.

[415]

He was raped by women in the past and I am terrified of triggering him in that way.

My wife was raped when she was 14.  I don't profess to know what that does to someone, and i'm certainly not qualified to offer advice or diagnose.  I have felt the same way many times where I am cautious not to do anything that would trigger her.  This goes back to what I said before when I said that I'm not sure if they really have a clear idea of what sex means to them.  I'd think that someone that was raped would be more cautious when it comes to sex and be slower to start a sexual relationship, however we slept together very early in the relationship.  In fact when it comes to sex, our time together was full of contradictions.  She's indicated to me and our therapist that she is hypersexual and would have sex everyday, yet she's been to our medical doctor complaining that she has no sex drive.  The doctor gave her/us a referral to a sex therapist and she wouldn't go.  She shouted at me by saying why I haven't "gone out and purchased the book on Tantra", yet she didn't go out and get in, and when i did, i was the only one who read it.  She tells me that I have a low sex drive and i'm the problem (projection?) but then says that the thought of me touching her "makes her want to vomit" (nice thing to hear from your wife).  She said that in therapy too and the therapist picked up on it and told her that she's saying that I don't give her enough sex but at the same time seems to say that even if I had this higher sex drive that she speaks of that she wouldn't want to touch me anyway.  Our first vacation together was almost 11 years ago now.  She just last year brought up that she almost  left me after that trip b/c we didn't have enough sex.  Our timing of "desire" sometimes gets mismatched i.e. I often initiate in the morning and she refuses... .yet seems to delete all of the times I initiate and she refuses.  I feel she pulls away the closer we get as well.  She'll text me all day then be sort of aloof when i'm actually home. I'm left to speculate.  Do victims of rape want to believe they want sex to know that that experience didn't break them but at the same time aren't entirely comfortable with sex?  Does combining sex with a real relationship introduce the possibility that they might get hurt unexpectedly?... .like they are on guard about getting blinded by love and then their partner leaves them?  Anonymous one night stands could make them feel more "in control" as the know the outcome and aren't going to be hurt?  As mentioned in prior posts, my relationship came apart in late Aug 2018, when a "psychic" told my wife that i'm actually gay and that i'm using her as a cover so my parents won't find out (not true.).  From that point on she's acted like I cheated on her or that I did in fact use her for that reason and that I never loved her.   She went from being very affectionate to not even holding my hand anymore.  I'd think that most other people would think that the "psychic" had no idea what she was talking about and get up and leave, however she seemed to let her fears take over and let it destroy our marriage.  The history of rape could be causing problems but it's only a speculation.  Does getting "too close" mean risk? 

[Copycat2018]

Yes, getting too close is a lot of risk i was told.

[Purplex]

@415:  I am sure that those experieces had a big impact on him and further distorted his view on sex. It's so strange, touching him would come so natural to me but now I almost feel like a predator if I think abut it. And it's a hard pill to swallow that he wouldn't have these boudaries with others.

Things are improving though, not in practice but at least in theory. He had another conversation about the isssue with his T and they came to the conclusion that

1. Pressure isn't helping (like Skip said and I agree)
2. he doesn't feel manly with me

I kind of get where he is coming from, he can't really povide for me or protect me, at the moment I am the one doing this for him. But in my eyes, this doesn't diminish his manliness in any way. I am proud that he is trying his best, I am happy to support him and I hope he will be able to gain enough confidence to be more self relient in the future. I am not looking for a knight in shining armour, I am looking for a relationship at eye level.

I couldn't care less about the typical attributes that are traditionally tied to gender. I value his tenderness, his emotionality, his sensitivity, especially because few men are courageous enough to live out those aspects of their personality. This is nothing to be ashamed of and there is nothing to prove.

I am having a hard time wrapping my head around what manliness even means. I can't even say what femininity means to me besides physical attributes. For me, self-confidence is the most attactive featue in men and women alike. He has the physical attributes of a man, what else is even relevant?

I am asking you because he himself couldn't really define what he is missing or what he wanted to change. How can I make him feel more manly?

[itsmeSnap]

he himself couldn't really define what he is missing or what he wanted to change. How can I make him feel more manly?

Easiest is probably to have/let him do things for you. Can be as simple as "this jar is stuck, I can't open it (wait for him to offer to help)" or "ugh, I can't reach this thing over there, give me a boost so I can get it", that last one is supposed to be somewhat playful as its not really "practical" but there's touch and possibly some intimacy on the way down with a flirty look into his eyes with the "thanks for helping me" (maybe I'm projecting here  I'll be honest I'd feel pretty manly on the business end of one of those looks).

There's a scene in the movie "the taking of the pelham 123" (clip: https://imdb.com/videoplayer/vi2810511897) were the wife asks the train operator turned hostage negotiator to bring a gallon of milk when she finds out he's the one to deliver the money. You could argue that it was about her giving him a task so that he would make sure to come home safe (its a hostage situation after all), but it also plays into the "provider" and general "do this for me" dynamic of a traditional husband/man of the house.

This is not just a "traditional manliness" thing, in generally we all tend to like those we do favors for.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-attraction-doctor/201105/make-them-love-you-taking-not-giving

According to research, giving certainly has an effect, ON THE GIVER. Those who care, give, or help in an unsolicited manner feel more positive, alive, and have higher self-esteem (Weinstein & Ryan, 2010). The giver also feels more committed to the recipient of their giving (Horan & Booth-Butterfield, 2010).
[...]
in a dating context, gifts can also be seen negatively in terms of power and control, feelings of "being purchased", exploitation, trying to impress, guilt, or having ulterior motives (Belk & Coon, 1991). Overall, the effects of receiving a gift (taking) are complicated and varied.

Emphasis mine.

If you're a generally self reliant woman and don't like/feel like asking for help (because of what is mentioned in the article or otherwise) he might not be getting/perceiving enough chances to display his "manly" generosity and caring in a way that he sees as reciprocated (avoid the "oh, you shouldn't have" at all costs  not really but you get the idea).

Did he (try to) give you gifts or "woo" you in some other way than sex when you were first dating? Has the asking him for help (even chores, shopping, etc.) been low or declined recently?

[415]

i'm just throwing out ideas here but is there anything that you can think of that he does well and you aren't as good?   I wonder if expressing interest in getting better at whatever that was that you'd put him into a position of power and you into a more vulnerable state where you rely on him?   

[once removed]

How can I make him feel more manly?

compliments certainly help.

my ex was very good at stroking the ol male ego, and ive never met a man who didnt have that.

shed tell me i was a badass, or "such a man", with examples, or did things like rave about my beard. a little over the top at times, and certainly you want to personalize it and be genuine, but the point is really about expressing to your partner that they are, and making them feel, desirable, without sounding like youre fishing. my ex and i never hid our attraction to each other, and let the other know when/that they were sexy often.

it builds trust and confidence in the bedroom in mutually rewarding ways.