He refuses to see his part in how the conflicts started

[DSFB]

I am feeling stuck as he refuses to see his part in how the conflicts started and how it gets out of control and turns into yelling and crazymaking…I feel this could help us , to prevent futur escalations and yelling etc . At least i am hoping maybe it could ?

I see it begins with him expressing negative feelings of feelings of feeling awkward bad uncomfortable, over something I said, did or did not do or say.. that for me immediately point to a situation that if I don’t acknowledge that I said something that hurt him and if I don’t apologize , yes it will get worse. So yes I apologize even though I dont see anything wrong with what I said.   And in some ways, I feel he wants me to take the blame for saying something that hurt him. Because I cant just apologize once, it goes on, he seems to have to stay in it, analyse and go on, and then keep reliving it and so I apologize a few times cause he usually has to talk about it about 3 times or more, if I dont stay with him , then he gets more hurt and frustrated saying I am changing the subject and of course it then will escalate into full blown anger, with him yelling at me for not listening, him getting impatient . Even if I say time out, he has come to accept this, but he will get upset that my time out was too long and that I took too long and he just had a small thing that was bothering him. So he then does not see at all that it is not a small thing cause it persists and he has to go on and on and on. And he does not see that his persistance is exhausting and very difficult. I am asking help as to how to deal with this ? this persistance, is what i wish i could help make him see, this is for me his part in it. I need to find the right words and that is what i am asking for help here.

What he does not see is that it is so emotionally demanding, I get exasperated and I cant keep talking about it. The problem lies for me, it persist but he does not see that it persists, if it did not persist i would not need to take time out. but also, here it persisted even after i apologized more than once, and he started to get angry, when i sensed his anger building that is when i said time out.

He wants to deny , it seems that it is emotionally demanding of me. He says he is not asking a lot. This is where I dont know what to do, and how to talk about this ?


Here is what happened. But before here is the context : We were having a great evening. He made a great meal, I consciously validate him a lot cause I see it makes him very happy. He made a great meal, and I go on about it, and he likes that I go on about it. And it was a good feeling. Meanwhile I told him that it was a difficult week for me, and my mother is not well and I had had a sore back, since the middle of the week. Over the phone I mentioned how kisses on my back would help. But he is not into that, nor massage, but I am craving, desire so much that we could start that in our relationship, more massage and kissing my body, he does not kiss my body, I kiss his, but it is not reciprocal, he hold my hand and lays a hand on me, gives me a hug or puts his arm around me, but no other caressing. I have found this hard in the 2 1/2 years we are together, he knows it, and the a few months ago, I said I would really like kisses on my next and last week I said I would like kisses on my back, cause I know it would help my back. But nothing. He had said, asking for this from him is a pressure and then he does not feel like doing it. That in itself, I dont know what to do about. But there, I guess I am living some frustration about touch that I cant talk about with him, cause it puts pressure on him. So this is part of the context.  When I asked him about how he could kiss my back over the phone in the day before I saw on friday night April 5th,  I said it in a light way, to not put on pressure, he received it, but did not really respond, just ok, but awkward

So what happened. After a great meal and all was good, we were finishing a beer and he was telling about a time when he was in denmark and the red light district how open it is over there like Amsterdam and when he got back to his hotel room he opened the tv and porn came on, but it was weird and he described it to me. Well I was not sure what to say. I know he does not like talking about sex and if he talks about sex and porn it is in an objective detached way. But I said the wrong thing, and asked him if the porn on the tv turned him on. Well then he got a bit upset and questioned me why I asked him that, and he felt awkward and he got confused and upset that I asked him that. He said it was private how he felt and now he felt bad and that he told me about this to laugh about it and I put him in an awkward position by asking him if it turned him on. So I now felt bad and uncomfortable too, and I apologized for asking the question and making him feel uncomfortable but then he would not let it go. He ask why did I ask that, and I should not have asked and was I jealous and so on. It was the fact that it persisted and he was getting angry, that I said time out, that I could not go on talking about it anymore. and, I was also feeling disappointed and felt less the ability to support him, cause I knew that the romantic evening was now destroyed because of this. And all possible possibilities of getting kisses in the back for sure were going to be nil.

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[DSFB]

I mean i feel it would help , if he could see his part in how the conflict started and turns into yelling, to help prevent it.

[loyalwife]

 
  Living and loving someone with BPD is not easy, it's challenging. Your question about how you can help him recognize his part in the arguments and conflicts is equally convoluted. You may be able to explain how things got out of hand, and what the initial trigger was, but other than that, preventing the next one is fruitless.  It's just the way of BPD.

  My husband will be in conversation with me, he misinterprets something I say, and then he's back thinking stinking thoughts. It escalates as they can't control these 'crazy' thoughts and bam, we are in the dog house again, through no fault of out own.

he refuses to see his part in how the conflicts started and how it gets out of control and turns into yelling and crazymakin

  I do think that they do recognize what they are saying, and they believe what they say and feel is true. No matter how you try to say otherwise, it doesn't matter.
     When you are in the middle of a battle, listen and validate as much as you can, but don't keep engaging trying to have him see things your way. He won't. The last disagreement my husband had (over something 5 years ago), I just shook my head and walked away. You can't reason with crazy, right?
     As far as feeling as though he is not being considerate physically, and refuses to do those things that he knows would bring you pleasure, is a form of punishment. Did he ever kiss you back, when you asked him? He must know that this would soothe you. I recognized this with my pwBPD, in that if it were something I really wanted, he would just refuse to do so. It becomes a type of game. When you stop asking, they will sense this departure from and wonder why you aren't asking.
     You know that kisses on the back would be nice and sharing with him the reasons that the conflict starts. For most normal people neither would be out of line. Dealing with someone with BPD means that there are times that they can't think like the average person, and their emotions take over. Have you thought of disengaging as soon as the arguments begin? Rather than trying to stop or control them, step away? Make a cup of tea, excuse yourself. You won't be rude, just self preserving.

[DSFB]

Hi,

Thanks for your response

in response to what you say

“ Your question about how you can help him recognize his part in the arguments and conflicts is equally convoluted.”

I can see what you mean by this that my question is convoluted

I guess what I mean is,  I write about how he persist, even after an hour, after i have validated his feeling, saying i understand you feel awkward and so on.  He persist on talking about how he feels bad.   that is what i mean as his part, (in part), as for me that is where the conflict began, and it is how he persisting on going on and on about how he felt bad, even after I said I understood and stayed with him in his emotions for about an hour. It seemed we had resolved it, and then he started again, cause it seemed he just wanted to stay with that bad feeling and talk about, and he kept asking why I asked the question.  I kept telling him that it just came out, and I was not sure what to say and that I was sorry if my question made him feel awkward. And we talked about it, but he remained puzzled and not feeling good. My validating his feelings of understanding he felt awkward and uncomfortable, helped a bit, but he kept going on about how he felt bad, and remained in not understanding why I asked the question

I am not sure if that helps but to try and be more clear, it is how to get him to not persist and end it, for one, but my question was in the initial post, that is what I mean by his part, the way he persist, he wont let it go. And my question is there a way to get him to see his part, that includes , how this persisting is so emotionally demanding ? the persisting itself, and if I dont continue to listen attentively and stay with him, even after I cant anymore, he starts to get angry. That is where I said time out.

I felt I said and did all I could and I had reached my limit. Especially that I thought it was ok, we had gotten to a place of calm, but then he kept going on and starting to get angry, even after it seemed he calmed down and it seemed resolved , it started again, so when I felt that happening, yes I tried to excuse myself. But maybe it was not the right way? I said time out, cause I felt his anger. So maybe that was not the way to excuse myself ? But I felt I had no more capacity to be patient and listen.

About how to help him recognize his part. If I understand correctly what you are saying, there is no way to try and make him see that he persist even after I say I understand ?

And when you mention that he wont kiss me in the back cause it is a game or he is punishing me, I see what you mean. I wonder if there is a way to address this ?

[loyalwife]

The emotion driven thinking of. a pwBPD rules their behavior especially when stressed.  You’re husband  is stuck so to speak. Although the dispute, misunderstanding or feeling doesn’t just leave. Once you know the triggers, it becomes easier to stay as far away from potential outbursts.  Without the ability to self regulate emotions it takes time for them to come back to center.

My thought on this is that there isn’t a way to prevent them from the onslaught of emotion.  I wish there was.

As far as not getting some of your needs met, like the kissing on the back,, you can ask but then that doesn’t guarantee you’ll be heard. Perhaps saying “ I love it when you kiss me, it makes me happy”. I wish it were simpler but you’re here and there’s so much useful information. Learn all you can and when times get out of whack you’ll have a clearer understanding of the Borderline..