New and Confused

[HopeAndaFuture]

Well, from what I have read this is the place for me to begin...
But where to begin, that is the question.  I suppose the best place is to admit that I am embroiled in the insanity of coping with a relationship with an undiagnosed pwBPD. This has been a roller coaster seven year relationship with all of the insanity associated with trying to navigate the incomprehensible manifestations and iterations of romance with a pwBPD.
Not that I hadn’t tried. Lord knows I have tried.
So, a little background...
I am a 61 yo pastor with a Masters Degree in Bible Theology and Christian counseling (seems ironic). I  “married” my pwBPD approximately 15 months after my late wife died. I say “married” because within a week of getting married my partner began a series of I hate you I love you maneuvers wherein she would move out, move in, ad Infinitum... the marriage was annulled and the last 6 years have been an attempt to reconcile our differences.
We have sought help from 4 consultants, 3 pastors, 2 psychologists, 1 therapist and a partridge in a pear tree.
All to no avail. The pwBPD rages, discontinues counseling, and begins the push pull cycle all over again.
Currently I do not know if she is coming or going which has been pretty much the defining characteristic of our relationship.
That and her morbid jealousy and 1/10th of a second “rule” about “seeing” any pretty or skinny women.
My primary concern at this point is to improve communication skills with her. I am torn between moving on or fighting the good fight to the bitter end.
Well, that’ is my intro in a nutshell. I am looking forward to hearing any suggestions or advice you seasoned veterans may have.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[loyalwife]

Welcome HopeandaFuture,
    Wow.  You have had a lot to deal with. It is frustrating to deal with someone with BPD as they believe what they feel, regardless of whether it is fact or not. This site has wonderful information and it's a great place to just hang out and learn. Reading through the discussion groups will help you too as you may identify with many of the stories.
    One of the toughest aspects for me has been the push/pull that you described. One minute you are the loved one, the next, the hated one. I've been married for five years, and in the first two years of our marriage he presented divorce papers twice. He is jealous of my kids and even my dog. I've learned to just avoid some conversations with him, as it sets him off. This doesn't make for an intimate relationship in the sense that you cannot trust that your feelings will be understood although they expect you to mind read what they are feeling. Regardless of the situation, they will blame you for everything. Sometimes the cycle is a day or a week. As quickly as it presented itself, it will go away. The pwBPD isn't affected by their actions, its the non that is left with the residue. You can learns ways to cope, get through and most of all, protect yourself.
       

am torn between moving on or fighting the good fight to the bitter end.

       This is what brings us all here. You can find tools for staying and for leaving, but you will not be persuaded to do anything that you don't want to do. I personally want my relationship to work, and have been here for about three years. As I've learned to back away, not push and to improve my own life, my husband has changed.  It's not perfect, but so much better than before. I have boundaries today that I stand firmly by. When challenged by him, I remind him that no longer will I tolerate his 'throwing his wedding ring or saying mean abusive things about my kids or dog'  There is power in standing up for oneself, and not being kept captive by a crazy acting person. I have found that just by removing myself can do much more than staying and trying to hold my ground.
Calmly, I just go.  I stop communicating with him and give him some alone time to regroup. Every person is different, but the symptoms run true to form.
     So, welcome to the group.
     Hang in there and hold on.

[HopeAndaFuture]

Thank you, loyalwife, for sharing your experiences and encouragement.

One of the things that I have had so much trouble with is that after a rage,( or cycling?) the pwBPD acts like nothing ever happened. Seems to forget things that she said. Rewrites history, etc.  It used to make me question my sanity. But then I became aware of gaslighting and recognized that pattern. If the pwBPD is incapable of emotional regulation does that make the gaslighting non-intentional? Would that make a difference? But I have often found myself questioning what is real or what is truth in regards to her behavior and words. I don’t think she has ever trusted me because of her distorted misconceptions , but my trust for her has diminished significantly. And what is a relationship without trust? How is that restored?

Thanks,
HopeAndaFuture

[MidLifCrysis1]

Hi...sorry for you challenges.

I wanted to chime in about the trust situation.

In my experience, I have learned that stability, foundation, history, and trust do not work the same for the BPs like it does for us.
The longer and deeper the history, the less easily shakeable and collapsible the trust should be...but not for them. It's not that they don't trust you, it's just that it is unimaginably easy for all of the trust and reliability that is built up in a relationship to be summarily swept away like dust. I don't claim to understand how that works, but that is something I have painstakingly been learning - whether I liked it or not - over many years.

It doesn't mean that the trust is any less real than our trust, it's just far more fragile.
And, for better or for worse, the flipping that they do can sometimes sweep away damage almost as oddly and seemingly effortlessly as it arrived. One of the few features that can be considered an up-side, I'd say.

Hope that helps.

[loyalwife]

I don’t think she has ever trusted me because of her distorted misconceptions , but my trust for her has diminished significantly. And what is a relationship without trust? How is that restored?

     That's a tough one. Trust is a huge problem with a pwBPD, because they don't trust anyone, including themselves.  The difference is that you can trust yourself, and your own feelings (memory included). Once the dust has settled and they are back to their old selves again, you are left with the residue. It does take a toll on the relationship because you don't know when the next episode will be launched or how safe you are.  I have spent a lot of time, forgiving myself and letting go of my husband's verbiage and actions.  You know now what she is capable of, and that she will not change without treatment. I trust my husband, when he is in his right mind, but when he is raging and escalated, I don't trust him. So, unlike most relationships, where you can discuss problems, find solutions and work together to make it better; the BPD relationship is a constant push/pull. Once you instill some boundaries, and decide where your values lie, and what you are willing to put up with or not, you'll get clarity. I used to want to change my husband, to make him see life in a different way, but you can't. Be good to yourself, this doesn't happen overnight.
     My husband used to tell me constantly that he didn't trust me. If I told him that I didn't trust him he would go ballistic. I don't trust him when he is in his mood, and find ways to shelter myself away from his outbursts. It's as though I've found an alternate planet to live on, safe and secure. When there is peace, I trust him.
     Not sure this is what most people feel their relationships are like, but that is my experience living with this person with mental illness.  Trust yourself. Take care of yourself. Enjoy your life together when it is peaceful, and when it is not, take cover. 
     

[MidLifCrysis1]

WOW! What a way to live...almost makes me wonder why we choose such a life. The BPs don't get a choice. We do. Maybe that makes us crazier than they are...

Enjoy your life together when it is peaceful, and when it is not, take cover. 

[loyalwife]

.almost makes me wonder why we choose such a life. The BPs don't get a choice. We do. Maybe that makes us crazier than they are...

     If you want to consider co-dependency a mental illness, (it isn't) . Most of the non's involved (from what I have experienced here) love the other person, and want to make the relationship work. As you have noticed, this doesn't mean that it always works, and it is difficult so there is support when you want/need out.
     A pwBPD does have a choice, but few take it. There is hope for them with treatment, but it takes a lot of empathy from the non to get them there. I suggested DBT to my husband, and he downloaded the book. Was it treatment, no; but he read it. Having this illness doesn't make the BPD bad, they are good people that can't adjust their emotions and live thinking that what they feel is truth. They react to this in unhealthy ways, to those that are closest.
     We lose friends and family sometimes because they don't understand why we 'care', when to them we should just walk away. That is why this communty is a safe one for us. Those here understand why.

[MidLifCrysis1]

I appreciate the insight. And I meant no harm in my comment. It was directed as much at myself as anyone else.

Your statement simply struck me. I've been with my wife since we were 17. It has been a long and hard struggle and we soldier on.

Thank you.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi HopeAndaFuture-

Welcome to our family.  It’s a hard and painful road, but CAN be worth it if your pwBPD has minimal NARC traits (my opinion only), because it appears they can admit to their rages.

My uBPDbf and I have been together (and apart) for nearly 6 years and are both 61.  For the first 3.5 years I had no idea what on earth was happening, and then I searched the phrase “unprovoked rage in men”, and I landed here.  Boom!

Over time I became less afraid of him and his rages.  They used to make me cower and I lost my voice.  Actually I lost my voice even when he was calm... I was afraid I’d set him off.  I’m not afraid any longer.  That took a lot of work.  I talked to him about his rage, asked him if he did that only to me... he said he did it to everyone.  I said that must feel so bad inside his body... it was a gentle talk.  And that was the talk when he began to trust me.

It’s important to look at the rest of your SO’s life, her relationships, to see if she can hold a job, her family, has friendships, etc. to measure whether she can control herself in other areas, in certain situations.  That can give you a “read” of sorts.  Hear how she talks about neighbors, parishioners in your case, that can give you a feel of her trust level / paranoia of people in general.  Just some ideas.  This can give you cues of how to move in your relationship.  Or if you can do this given your calling.  You obviously canNOT refuse to give religious counsel to every skinny or pretty woman in your parish.  And you should not have to pay with emotional warfare upon returning home from work each night.

You may want to take a look at the “TOOLS” section above on this site.  There is some very helpful reading on reducing conflict (you don’t want to make it worse); setting boundaries (boundaries are for YOU, your values); and communication tools - Validation. 

The primary communication tool is to NOT JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain).  That seems to go against all we’ve done all our lives, but it works with pwBPD traits.

HopeAndaFuture- I say all this knowing that I have no idea what my own future holds.  But tonight he’ll join my mom and me for dinner.  He does trust me, and I’m trying to trust that he won’t break my heart as often as he used to, but I keep him at a healthy distance.  I cannot love him to wellness.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Gemsforeyes]

Dear Midlif-

You didn’t say anything that any of us haven’t thought.  I’m of the mindset that if a person is older than 25 they’re adults and understand their negative behaviors have impacts on others... i.e. they DO have some choice in how they behave and can get help to change.  I have / had some BPD traits due to trauma from my past, but I’m very clear about who’s responsible for what happened to me.  No one else has to pay for that... and I figured that out a loong time ago.

Gemsforeyes