Things have taken a turn for the worse with my wife.

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338433.0

I don't have any suggestions, but I can share my story from a recent trip this weekend if it will help.  I've been married to my uBPDw fir 17 years.  In that time, relationships with my family became very tense.  To me, the beginning was rocky because my family had a hard time with me leaving the family business.  There was a lot of tension for me, being caught between my family and my wife.  Not knowing what to do, I picked my wife.  I moved out of state with my wife and kids and kept minimal contact with my family and focused on my wife and kids.  

Visits from them were always filled with tension.  I was always afraid to talk to my mother.  I don't know what the real story would look like from a third party, but it felt like my mother was trying to get information to show how we were mean people and my wife who believed my family was mean, didn't want me to share information with them.  That's the mindset I held for a very long time.  I eventually only called my mother on holidays, and it was always nerve racking.  We might only see each other once a year for just a weekend.  My family really is not a part of my children's lives.  

Last year I went to my Grandmother's funeral and saw my brother, who lives on the other side of the country for the first time, in I don't know how long.  I don't know if my 12 ever actually met him in person, but he didn't even know he existed.  He turns to my wife and said in front of my father, "I didn't know dad had a brother."  

Things have taken a turn for the worse with my wife.  I have separated, which puts me in a financial strain and I'm really worried about the future of my marriage.  I was hesitant to share with my family, but I eventually did.  I went to visit them this weekend because there was another funeral.  My parents were supportive.  Even through they have been hurt, they were there to help me.  The sent me with as much stuff as I could take for my empty apartment.  My dad, who has been very hurt by the isolation and never allowed himself to be vulnerable by getting close to me or my kids any more, who still feels a little guarded, still gave me stuff to help out.  

I spent the whole weekend around my family, my parents, without my wife and I had the most fun with them than I have in 17 years.  I didn't realize how much I missed them.  It was so freeing to be around them and not feel like I was walking on egg shells talking with them because I might get in trouble for something I said to them later.

Last year, my wife berated me for 4 hours in the car in front of the kids because she took a huge offense to a single sentence that I said to my mother.  One that I believe should not have been a big deal.  Perhaps deserved an apology from me, but not the reaction I got.

What lessons have I learned?  Family is tough, especially with a BPD partner.  Maybe in the beginning I made the right choice to distance from them, but we didn't need to keep distancing and time should have helped us reconcile.  My family may have a tenancy to push for more visits than what I can or want to do in the future, but they deserve more than what they got.  My kids would benefit from it.  The things that my wife protested against, might have some validity (like my dad's language) but didn't warrant isolation.  There's a better way to navigate it.  

I suppose if I really had to pick, I could give up my family for my wife and kids.  However, not that I could be looking at not being married anymore, I need my family.  So if you are in the same position, do you think distancing yourself from your family is in your long term best interest?  I wish I would have stood up to my wife more on it.  I allowed her to call too many shots.  As I did that, she kept escalating things and distancing me more.  After this weekend, I feel so renewed and excited to bring my kids up to visit their extending family on the family farm.  I wish I had done that more often in their childhood.

Hope this helps.

[Wilkinson]

Mod note: This post was split from the following thread as it merited its own discussion: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338433.0

I don't have any suggestions, but I can share my story from a recent trip this weekend if it will help.  I've been married to my uBPDw fir 17 years.  In that time, relationships with my family became very tense.  To me, the beginning was rocky because my family had a hard time with me leaving the family business.  There was a lot of tension for me, being caught between my family and my wife.  Not knowing what to do, I picked my wife.  I moved out of state with my wife and kids and kept minimal contact with my family and focused on my wife and kids.  

Visits from them were always filled with tension.  I was always afraid to talk to my mother.  I don't know what the real story would look like from a third party, but it felt like my mother was trying to get information to show how we were mean people and my wife who believed my family was mean, didn't want me to share information with them.  That's the mindset I held for a very long time.  I eventually only called my mother on holidays, and it was always nerve racking.  We might only see each other once a year for just a weekend.  My family really is not a part of my children's lives.  

Last year I went to my Grandmother's funeral and saw my brother, who lives on the other side of the country for the first time, in I don't know how long.  I don't know if my 12 ever actually met him in person, but he didn't even know he existed.  He turns to my wife and said in front of my father, "I didn't know dad had a brother."  

Things have taken a turn for the worse with my wife.  I have separated, which puts me in a financial strain and I'm really worried about the future of my marriage.  I was hesitant to share with my family, but I eventually did.  I went to visit them this weekend because there was another funeral.  My parents were supportive.  Even through they have been hurt, they were there to help me.  The sent me with as much stuff as I could take for my empty apartment.  My dad, who has been very hurt by the isolation and never allowed himself to be vulnerable by getting close to me or my kids any more, who still feels a little guarded, still gave me stuff to help out.  

I spent the whole weekend around my family, my parents, without my wife and I had the most fun with them than I have in 17 years.  I didn't realize how much I missed them.  It was so freeing to be around them and not feel like I was walking on egg shells talking with them because I might get in trouble for something I said to them later.

Last year, my wife berated me for 4 hours in the car in front of the kids because she took a huge offense to a single sentence that I said to my mother.  One that I believe should not have been a big deal.  Perhaps deserved an apology from me, but not the reaction I got.

What lessons have I learned?  Family is tough, especially with a BPD partner.  Maybe in the beginning I made the right choice to distance from them, but we didn't need to keep distancing and time should have helped us reconcile.  My family may have a tenancy to push for more visits than what I can or want to do in the future, but they deserve more than what they got.  My kids would benefit from it.  The things that my wife protested against, might have some validity (like my dad's language) but didn't warrant isolation.  There's a better way to navigate it.  

I suppose if I really had to pick, I could give up my family for my wife and kids.  However, not that I could be looking at not being married anymore, I need my family.  So if you are in the same position, do you think distancing yourself from your family is in your long term best interest?  I wish I would have stood up to my wife more on it.  I allowed her to call too many shots.  As I did that, she kept escalating things and distancing me more.  After this weekend, I feel so renewed and excited to bring my kids up to visit their extending family on the family farm.  I wish I had done that more often in their childhood.

Hope this helps.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Wilkinson,

I'm glad you have reconnected with your family. It seems to be a recurring theme on these boards of pwbpd feeling threatened by their partners' relationships with family. I think in some cases the pwbpd may demand that the partner/spouse "take sides" as a way of proving love and loyalty for the pwbpd. Any perceived slight or offense by the extended family (or even a real slight or offense) becomes a "you don't love me if you don't take my side" thing, and the black/white thinking of the pwbpd causes them to think that cutting the family off is the only way to deal with the situation.

Having family support can make a lot of difference when you have been isolated and subjected to another person's distorted reality for a long time. Hopefully, this gives you a chance to make some decisions for yourself about the type of relationship you want to have with your family, and the relationship you hope they can have with your children.

[Wilkinson]

Having family support can make a lot of difference when you have been isolated and subjected to another person's distorted reality for a long time. Hopefully, this gives you a chance to make some decisions for yourself about the type of relationship you want to have with your family, and the relationship you hope they can have with your children.

I'm grateful that they didn't just cut me out.  I have fences to mend with them, but at least I still can.  If anyone out there is a family member of a person who is dealing with a BPD spouse, I know it is painful to watch and to be cut off from your family member, but being there and supporting them will mean the world to them.  It's a tough situation to be in.  You get brainwashed and you think you are doing the right thing.  The more covert the BPD spouse is, the harder it is to break free.  I might still be stuck in it had my wife not ramped up and did some off the wall stuff.

[Notwendy]

I am trying to mend fences with some of my BPD mother's family. I don't know if it is possible. She's painted me so black to them, I think they are wary of me. The door is open to a relationship if they choose to contact me. I have sent e mails to them, sometimes they don't reply. It's hard to not have hurt feelings over this.

I do think that truth and reality prevail in time. I have acted as best as I can. I am polite and cordial around them at rare family get togethers.

My father's family has stood by me, my family. I am grateful for them. I agree that family support has a positive impact.

[Red5]

Good Morning Wilkinson,

I am reading your post, and I am relating (concurring) with your story, in regards to your wife, and your family, you're foo.

And it brings up my curiosity, and a few questions, if you may indulge me.

*What is the situation with your wife's family (foo) and yourself?… are they nice to you, do they continue to accept you?,, are they receptive, supportive to you, did they take sides, do they know, are they at all awares?

*What is the situation between you and your wife’s foo, have they ghosted you… as this is me now, ghosted by her immediate foo, siblings; two older sisters, * mum, MIL (all disordered/generational?)… but her two adult children, they are supportive, understanding & very awares to their mothers (my wife) suspected borderline, and they still maintain contact with me opsec/clandestinely (?).

I have had a lot of experience with foo, both my first wife (abusive foo), and as well my current wife’s foo (we are separated too/8 months today/)… as in family secrets and denial, historical rewrite of the sibling’s childhoods / upbringing… etc,

Of note, my wife seems to live in a constant “problematic” state, and she seems to “feed” off of the resulting chaos… her older (oldest) sister is the same way… there is always some “issue”… always, and forevermore… unceasing… the more chaos created, the better… “victimization” is the main persona, foo mum (MIL) is the same… she is very “queenish”.

I recall, when ubpdw and I would quarrel, long before I discovered (epiphany) borderline (cluster ABC)… she would call her mum, and then mum would actually support my side!… and take my side… telling ubpdw, “you need to chill out", "you are far too sensitive", "you need to calm down"… which only exacerbated the problems… (note) her father is passed, so her immediate foo is her mum, and two older sisters,

I learned a long time ago, to NEVER speak of any of this to my own mother… as she is also no doubt a borderline (traits) personality... among other things (toxic)… so I speak to no one really, save my coworker, and my “T” about any of this… and sometimes her D33, and S31, whom do not hesitate to confirm, and validate everything… “welcome to my childhood”… “mom is a pain in the ass”… “we are surprised you’ve lasted as long as you have”… they will say this to me, wow.

Yes, I am curious how your wife’s foo is in all of this?

I too, have written off my mother, several times over the decades, due to her controlling, disruption, and causing chaos… and being a toxic busy body… in both my first, and this current marriage… ‘notams’… she never married my bio dad, and I was raised by grandparents, long story.

As far as I observed, my wife’s foo seemed to very happy to see her remarried to me (2011), as they were “let go” of dealing with her… so eight years of tumultuous marriage later downrange, which culminated in her striking my autistic son… a deal breaker, so her foo helped her move out of our home…

I spoke to her the other day, and asked how everyone was doing… she related that her middle sister, whom brought her trailer over (4 trips) to help move ubpdw out of our home... eight months ago now… (continuing) she says to me… “well Sis54 is mad at me again, I don’t know what I did this time, but her and her HBil55 (her Sis’s H) won’t return my calls, or my texts… I don't know what I did or said to upset her this time”…

You see, it continues, even though Red5 is out of the pattern… it NEVER ends with them ; (

… one thing of interest, ANY TIME … you ever get one or the other, or else both the other two husbands, bother-in-laws (BIL's) together, 1v2 or 1v1… they will very quickly "dump" on you (me)… "woe is me, my wife is a complete and total bi@tch… blah blah blah… a dumpex… "I cant stand being around her"… on and on and on… this has happened several times over the the last eight years… so I guess I'm not alone… I even hear form them how "bad" my predecessor ha d it… ubpdw's exH… these two other foo marriages, are both 30-33 years in duration… one has no kids, the other has three… there is a younger brother, whom is now deceased… he was reportedly very abusive to his own wife, and three daughters, this came from his onw daughter lips one might a few years ago during a visit… wow… generational you see.

So another question: do you also have sister or brother in-laws whom are in the same pattern as you Wilkinson ?

Red5

[Wilkinson]

*What is the situation with your wife's family (foo) and yourself? … are they nice to you, do they continue to accept you?, …, are they receptive, supportive to you, did they take sides, do they know, are they at all awares?

As far as I can tell, as of today, they love me.  I don't think any of them know what is going on.  She's good at maintaining a different persona in front of others.  So there is no taking sides yet.  They all live out of state and she has not been very close with them lately.  I've moved out and filed for divorce and I don't think her foo even knows.

*What is the situation between you and your wife’s foo, have they ghosted you … as this is me now, ghosted by her immediate foo, siblings; two older sisters, * mum, MIL (all disordered/generational?) … but her two adult children, they are supportive, understanding & very awares to their mothers (my wife) suspected borderline, and they still maintain contact with me opsec/clandestinely (?).

Like I said, we don't have much contact.  I don't know what she has said and not said to them.  I don't know if they even know.  She has distanced herself from her sister and brother.  Her mother was in a coma earlier this year and she didn't go visit her.  She has said her uncles have not been responding to her.  If all that's true, it sounds like her family is picking up on stuff.

do you also have sister or brother in-laws whom are in the same pattern as you Wilkinson ?

I don't know.  We discovered something bad in her brother and sister's childhood probably relating to the neglect.  It will probably have some effects on my SIL later in the future, I don't know about BIL.  I know uBPDw's mother has something wrong with her.  Maybe BPD, Asperger's, autism? I'm not sure, but there's definitely something.

[Red5]

We discovered something bad in her brother and sister's childhood probably relating to the neglect.  It will probably have some effects on my SIL later in the future, I don't know about BIL.  I know uBPDw's mother has something wrong with her.  Maybe BPD, Asperger's, autism? I'm not sure, but there's definitely something.

In my first marriage, me and "G" got married as teenagers, we got pregnant, anyways, there was severe abuse, sexual, both her and her sisters, later on, about eleven years in, she began to really lose it… and I found out it was also cousins, and that it was generational, her own mother, aunts, and even the grandmother… the grandmother, one of her aunts, and her mother were definitely "off"… they all lived like gypsies… moved all the time, didn't pay bills, very dysfunctional… but at eighteen, I was clueless : (

In this current marriage, I have learned a bit more early on, after the obvious rewrites of history that I was told initially, and a few years of being around them, "Q's" mum (ubpdw's mother - my MIL), turns out she also got married at sixteen, as did me and my first wife, and also "Q", my current ubpdw was as well… she also met and married her first husband at age 15-16 years old… back to mum's family… there were four siblings, two boys, two girls,  … grandma (mums mum) never learned to read or write (post WWII) until she was well into her thirties… grampa worked in the shipyard, Newport News VA… back to siblings… son#1 became a heroine addict, and it killed him at about age thirty… mum (MIL) married a sailor (ubpdw's dad) at sixteen, and left, son #2, he has been married three times & is still living, sister #2, "Aunt L", also still living… she is somewhat of a hypochondriac… always sick, near death… taking drugs, meds, and all of that constantly… this sister married a "ne'er-do-well " of a man… foo is constantly still complaining about him, even in this current time... this sister#2 had two children, a daughter who also died of drug use (heroine) in her thirties, and a son, whom is a "strange cat" for lack of better wording, he is ____. and lives by himself right across the street from sister #2 (Aunt L), and her H… the next house over from where grandma lived before she passed @80 (2008?), she had advance alzheimer's… grandad died of colon cancer about fifteen years before… the daughter (AuntL) had a daughter of her won, out of wedlock, whom "Aunt L" is raising, she is also a trouble child now… must be about twenty by now?, and she doesn't stand a chance… Newport News VA is a rough town…

I find, the more I "investigate"… I can see the generational dysfunction… and it is most times passed right on the next generation, as I see.

Why does a sixteen year old leave home, and why did mum and dad let a twenty one year old date their fifteen year old… hmmm, yet another   I ignored.

That marriage, ubpw marriage #1, lasted 20 years, he passed away in 2016, they had been divorced for 12 years, we've been married for eight years now, I met her in 2007, about a year after I myself got divorced… my first marriage lasting 21 years… sometimes I feel like ____ !  

There is so much more to tell, but I'd take three pages up… but it's all right there… this (dysfunction) is passed on, from one generation to the next.

I read the other day… "borderlines are full of much unresolved anger, resultant from early childhood trauma, that was inflicted, by the previous generations, mum, or dad… and from grandad, and grandma or other foo before them".

My ubpdw, has two children, now grown adults, her D33 has been married tree times now, she has no kids though, her S31 seems alright too, he waited till he was 30 to marry… I have three children, all adults… neither of my younger ones are married, D26, S29… D26 is in a serious relationship, but no marriage in the future, and my oldest is autistic (S33).

A few years back, her S31 was visiting us with his then GF, before he and his girl married, and he says to me, as we were drinking Jack and Coke's… in the kitchen "man time" he called it... he says… "Red, I'm scared to death to marry her, my sister is about to marry #3, and she is only 30", "I'm scared of the "____ (family name) curse"… I was like "what!"… "the ___ curse, what do you mean?" I asked… he continued, "come on, you know Red, and you are a saint for putting up with mom, she is crazy, I know"… "so are aunt "C" & aunt "CA" (her sisters), and grandma is too, I know it", he said… "and I'm afraid that I have moms temper", "that's the curse Red".

That was back in 2016?… He and his sister seem to be doing alright now…

I dunno, I remember reading SWOE… and then "I Hate You, Don't Leave Me"… then… "In a Relationship with a Borderline"… then I read "Understanding the Borderline Mother"… then "Codependent no More"… and I just finished, "The Object of My Affection is in My Reflection"… that's a good one, wow!… I can see so much now… things I was blind to before… sometimes now I think I'm the one that's cursed ; (

I cant ever go back… I've taken the "red pill"... I feel like I've seen the sausage making room...

I love my wife, and I hope we can "work it out"… I've learned so much over the last three years now… we shall see won't we.

… hang in there, sorry for the long post Wilkinson,

Red5