Symbolic violence

[AskingWhy]

Symbolic violence is when a person with a PD acts out or projects their rage not at the target, but at an inanimate object, or another person or child, or a pet/animal.

How many of us have had to witness or tolerate broken objects, holes punched in walls, our property deliberate destroyed or animals abused?

This is so common that it does not need examples, but I know many of use have experienced this.

It may even be subconscious.  I mentioned some time ago my uBPH splashing bleach on a silk blouse I had washed by hand and carefully hung in the laundry room to dry.  H was so focused (splitting) on using the bleach (whatever he was cleaning) that he was oblivious that a fine silk item was hanging nearby.  It never even occurred to him the blouse could be stained by the bleach, and that he should move it to a safe place to dry away from whatever he was doing.  I was broken hearted (then angry) that one of my favourite pieces of clothing had a huge bleach stain on it, making it unwearable. 

As with splitting, anything of value that belongs to H or his children is of value.  Anything of mine does not even exist or is of no value to him.

I have a tea set I bought at a garage sale years ago.  The teacups are very unique.  One day, when my uBPD was feeling a need for control and order, and decided to clean the dining room, he chose to dust the tea set and ended up breaking one of the handles of a teacup.  The set is not expensive in any way, I just liked them and cherished them.  H knows this.

Totally careless on the part of H, but he was in a frenzy of cleaning and the need for control.  (He cleans the house when he wants to feel in control.)  Then he made a poor, sloppy attempt to glue the handle back on.  It was lucky I walked by a saw the sloppy, careless job.  Glue was all over the handle, with excess glue sticking out messily.  I became livid, immediately removed and reaffixed the handle, cleaning up the excess.  I had a vision in my mind of H trembling with control fury as he cleaned the dining room, then angry at the broken cup, hastily and uncaringly gluing the handle back on.  I can only image my rage if the glue on the cup had cured, and I had to look at the sloppy glue all over the broken seams and the cup.

My H has a way of destroying my objects when he is angry at me, a perfect example of symbolic violence.

Of course, this would never have happened with any of the possessions of his adult children or his grand children.   Any of their possessions would be like precious objects of great and sacred value to be handled with infinite love and care.  Anything I own is of no consequence and can be abuse and mistreated or neglected, as H does my feelings.

Has anyone else experienced the deliberate abuse of property or pets (or thorough negligence) when they are dysregulating or splitting?

[Notwendy]

I think it is common. There are posts about people's spouses destroying property, setting fires.

It does come down to how someone manages anger. Trashing the house, raging, acting out in different ways- all examples of anger expression.

It comes back to the question I asked you on another thread. What is the end result of all this (even if it is justified) rage? Is staying together raging at each other better than living apart? I can't decide this for you, just asking.

Have you seen the movie "War of the Roses"? It's a dark satire about two people who want a divorce but don't move out of the home. Instead, they split the house between them while acting out their increasing mutual anger. I won't spoil the ending but .. it doesn't end well.

I'm sorry you have to deal with this. There are tools on this site to help decrease drama, "stop the bleeding". You don't have to love him or even want to stay with him to do this, but if you are going to live together anyway, how do you want to coexist?

[AskingWhy]

There are tools on this site to help decrease drama, "stop the bleeding". You don't have to love him or even want to stay with him to do this, but if you are going to live together anyway, how do you want to coexist?

NW, I use the tools, and then there are times when I just get fed up and don't care.  I say what is on my mind, make boundaries and enforce them.  If H wants to pout or rage, he is welcomed to.

I am at the point in Lundy Bancroft's, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" when I am angry to the point where I am considering leaving.  In those moments, I don't care if H makes good on his threat to divorce me.  I have heard those threats for the last 15 years and they used to devastate me to begging and tears.  I am much stronger now and can handle a divorce, or even initiate one myself.

In some instances, anger is good and is a precursor to moving ahead.  I have felt that anger at all of the years of emotional abuse, and sometimes I just get fed up.

BTW, Bill Eddy's, "5 Types of People Who Can Ruin Your Life: Identifying and Dealing with Narcissists, Sociopaths, and Other High-Conflict Personalities," talks about divorce threats from BPDs and the intent is a control issue in the form of withholding affection.  This can only work in codependents, which I used to be.

[Still Here]

Yup

I have a rare toxic allergy to the fumes from nail polish.  I can't be around wet nail polish for more than a few seconds or I end up with a migraine that lasts for 3-4 days.  The last time me and my W and I argued I went to sleep on the couch and she opened up a couple bottles of nail polish and left them near my face.

Now that I think about it, there wasn't anything symbolic about that.

But she has torn up old family photos, stabbed a couch making lots of holes, etc.

I think the common theme here is that couches are not a safe place for me. Not funny really, but sometimes you have to laugh.

[once removed]

I had a vision in my mind of H trembling with control fury as he cleaned the dining room, then angry at the broken cup, hastily and uncaringly gluing the handle back on.

this is projection, AW. when we visualize what is going on in someone elses head and what their intent is, and react to it.

are you suggesting that he cleaned the room, broke a handle in the process, then glued it back together, all as an act of violence toward you?

[AskingWhy]

this is projection, AW. when we visualize what is going on in someone elses head and what their intent is, and react to it.

are you suggesting that he cleaned the room, broke a handle in the process, then glued it back together, all as an act of violence toward you?

OR, thank you for your post.  I have been married to my H long enough (over 20 years) to know his motivations and behavioural outcomes. When H is stressed at work, or unhappy with his adult children (they emotionally blackmail him for money) or his uNPD F (or even his uNPD X W), or any other reason, there is (what is known in the DV world) a "tension building stage" followed by dysregulation.  This is part of cycling of BPDs.  H is feeling a lack of control and then he is the one projecting his rage onto me.

As for the cleaning, breaking items and poor attempt at repairing them, yes, H is the one projecting. H does punch holes in walls and break furniture, as well.  H channels his energy into something he can control, such as cleaning the house or doing house chores.  

On breaking objects, I stated that breaking items can be subconscious.  These objects are not his nor his children's, so H feels he does not have to take care of them or may not even "notice" they are there.  Just as in splitting, these objects are not in his reality to be taken care of, so he can abuse them and disregard them without being concerned.  With his children's possessions or items related to them, he takes great care as though they were sacred items.  (I mentioned this in my OP.)

Just as a pwAPD might commit a burglary, harm people, destroy items in someone's home and steal possessions or money, then go home and gently, carefully, enter a nursery and rock his/her baby to sleep. (People with BPD can, at turns, exhibit features of all of the other PDs.)

H deliberately abuses items that are not his nor belong to his adult children.  Once he was helping my coworker move from one apartment to another and he was shockingly careless about moving a heavy antique armoire.   H banged it up as he moved it and dropped one corner and a huge crack was made along one of the sides.  (H likely resented me for asking to help my friend.)  When I asked what happened, H snarled and said, "Well, what do you expect for free labor?"  This attitude is very common in pwBPD where there is a value placed on everything, and affection and objects are commodified to be bartered.   It is likely my H projected his rage toward me onto my friend and her possessions.

[AskingWhy]

I have a rare toxic allergy to the fumes from nail polish.  I can't be around wet nail polish for more than a few seconds or I end up with a migraine that lasts for 3-4 days.  The last time me and my W and I argued I went to sleep on the couch and she opened up a couple bottles of nail polish and left them near my face.

I am sorry, SH, that your wife is abusive to you.  This is very toxic behavior.  My H will break my things when he is angry at me, hence my discussion of symbolic violence.  He never, ever would dream of damaging things belonging to his children as he sees them as extensions of himself. 

[Still Here]

That’s upsetting to hear. To me it sounds like he has some ability to control himself and elects not to do so with you. Do you have sentimental items that are irreplaceable?  Have you thought about keeping them somewhere else?

[AskingWhy]

Do you have sentimental items that are irreplaceable?  Have you thought about keeping them somewhere else?

My objects of value are in safe places.  I won't risk H's rage.

[Enabler]

Hey Askingwhy,

I have hit a light switch and broken it post argument with my W.
I clean when I am anxious/agitated and feel helpless.

I see both these actions as moderately (albeit less than ideal) healthy ways to blow the top off of extreme stress. Yes, I suppose in many ways the light switch was metaphorically my W or whoever... But it wasn't. When I clean, maybe I'm not 100% focused on the things I'm picking up, maybe I am more heavy handed than I would be had I'd not been on edge, maybe I have tunnel vision stemming from anxiety... this is going to happen when in 'fight or flight' mode, statistically I'm sure I have broken more things in this state than when calm.

Looping this into what Once Removed pointed at and the examples you gave you could have 'read' his motivations in multiple different ways, I will give you an example of just 2 motivations, and both depend on your initial framing of your H:

Bleached blouse-
Mindset 1 - H was angry >>  He bleaches his clothes >>  he notices my blouse (consciously or subconsciously) but deems it worthless so doesn't move it >>  H doesn't care about my possessions and it's just collateral damage to him at best or at worst satisfying damage to AskingWhy's stuff.

Mindset 2 - H was angry >>  He bleaches his clothes in an attempt to ruminate and do something to shift his anger or even think about something else >> > Due to his fight or flight mode he gets tunnel vision and literally has no conscious or unconscious awareness of AskingWhys blouse, he's 100% focused on THE TASK >>  H doesn't notice that AskingWhys stuff gets ruined.

Can you say with 100% certainty what stuff of his he breaks, what stuff of his kids he breaks? Would he tell you, would you notice or do you have a little bit of selection bias? I think it was you who's H slammed the fridge door and a bunch of stuff fell out of it... was it only your things that fell out of it or was it a bunch of random things that fell out of it?

I'm not doubting that your H gets angry, anger is an emotion which sadly isn't likely to go away. You get angry too, and it sounds like you deal with it by internalising it in a seething venom, or you come here and vent to the boards. Maybe your way of dealing with it is more healthy. Often we read intent into outcomes such as the damaged blouse that are actually not intentional but accidents, accidents that are far far far more statistically probable BECAUSE we are angry. Symbolic violence is different, it's malicious, it's purposeful, it's calculated, it's intentional. If your H was perpetrating symbolic violence would he go to the effort to glue the handle back on the cups? Maybe out of guilt post his handle snapping rage. Would he have gone to the effort to make a splatter pattern on the blouse or would he have just poured bleach directly on it? Maybe he's so calculated he wants to give the illusion of an accident. 

Accidents happen, accidents are more likely to happen when someone is not in complete control of what they are doing and has the tunnel vision of red mist. You're right to stow away precious items, maybe not because he will maliciously damage them... more in a way that you wouldn't take a bull to a china shop, or leave your favourite vase on a low table with a toddler visiting.

Maybe I am too kind to your H... maybe not.

Enabler

[AskingWhy]

Accidents happen, accidents are more likely to happen when someone is not in complete control of what they are doing and has the tunnel vision of red mist. You're right to stow away precious items, maybe not because he will maliciously damage them... more in a way that you wouldn't take a bull to a china shop, or leave your favourite vase on a low table with a toddler visiting.

Maybe I am too kind to your H... maybe not.

Enabler

Enabler, thank you for the long reply.

The truth is that my uBPD H treats his children's possessions (they are all grown and out of the house) like sacred relics.  He has never broken anything of theirs. In fact, H has always been a coward in their presence due to the enmeshment.  They say, "Jump!" and he says, "How high?"

I know my H well enough to know that anything of mine, due to splitting, does not exist in his world, just as my presence when his children and grandchildren visit.

Yes, you are too kind to my H.  I am no longer as codependent as I once was.  I care less about my H and the R/S, so I am not as likely to SET when my H dysregulates.

[MrRight]

I have lost count of the number of times my PC keyboard has been banged on my desk so that all the keys fall off.

The house has many signs of damage - holes in doors etc. She even kicked through a glass door.

[WitzEndWife]

I don't know if I think the carelessness is symbolic violence so much as it is a means of control or disrespect. My uBPDh has absolutely deliberately been violent around me - smashing plates and bowls and breaking shelves or the door frame. He's pretty much stopped since I told him that I would call the police the next time he smashed something in the house. I don't replace the plates he smashes either, so we have uneven numbers of plates, but he has a finite amount he can smash before they're gone.

As far as the carelessness goes, he has spilled paint on the carpet while painting, broken my wine glasses, and misplaced my things. I don't believe he can't control this kind of thing - I mean, accidents surely happen, but he absolutely can prevent some of this. I had 6 wine glasses and now I have 3. That's no accident, it's reckless behavior borne out of a deep disrespect or petulance towards me.

I think one action is meant to be threatening or intimidating and one is meant as a passive aggressive move.

[Vincenta]

Hi Asking Why,
So sorry to hear about the silent violence, like breaking things, verbal abuse etc.
How long this had been going on? Typically this kind of aggressive behaviour will  ( sooner or later) escalate to physical abuse/ violence.
Based on my experience only, there was a bliss of the first  one year, then.a verbal abuse started , gradually growing, then threatening gestures slowly added until the point of ‘real’ first physical attack ( push, I fell and a break on my knee).

[Vincenta]

Or, actually, why you might think that it would never escalate to point of physical violence towards you?

[AskingWhy]

MrRight, WEW and Vincenta, thank you for the responses.

MrRight, you know the upset one feels is have your objects broken and disrespected.

WEW, I agree that it's disrespect for any possession of mine.  H does not care enough to be careful with my things.  With his children's things, he treats them with great care.  H does indeed know whose property he is handling and abusing. 

Now when H dysregulates, I just leave him to his mess.  I make sure the pets and grandchildren are out of the area (splashed food, drink and broken glass) and leave the mess for him to clean up.

Vincenta, this has been going on for over twenty years.  I started about a year into the marriage (I should have left.)  H knows if he so much as raises a hand to me, I will contact the authorities immediately.  I contacted a lawyer several years ago and know my rights should he and I divorce.  (H also makes divorce threats, which is very common for pwBPD.)

[hope2727]

Yup been there. He would intentionally "accidentally" wreck something of mine when he was mad at me. His stuff was all precious. Even his worthless 3rd hand junky furniture. My high end collected carefully over time quality pieces were however worthless. Sigh. Immature and selfish.

[AskingWhy]

I also discovered H was spraying insect repellent toward the direction of my shoes, and I discovered the stuff all over my nice shoes.

Was H totally disrespectful?  Yes, he was.  Again, my possesions are of no value and, in fact, don't exist in his world of splitting.  H is very careful of everything of his children, including school art objects they made in grade school that are all over the house.  (Seriously?  They are all almost 30.)

Right now I am very upset over this.

[sweetheart]

What you describe in your OP is not my understanding of what  ‘symbolic violence’ is, but it is very typical passive aggressive behaviour.

You link your definition specifically to a pwBPD, but actually we are all capable of this kind of behaviour to varying lesser or greater degrees.

pwBPD tend toward these types of behaviour because of a difficulty expressing their emotions directly and needing to protect themselves from unwanted attacks on a very brittle sense of self..
So passive-aggressive behaviour, projection, splitting, denial, compulsive lying, displacement are all mechanisms that are used regularly to protect their egos. (Which is very fragile)

It sounds as though you have decided to leave much of this behaviour unaddressed, which I can hear sets up resentment, frustration and anger in you.

Given that you are staying and tolerating your relationship is there anything you might do differently that could help the situation feel less stuck?

[AskingWhy]

I have no strategy at this point for this, but H is getting a small bit more introspective about his rages. 

This helps.  If H dysregulates again, I will go back to my matter-of-fact way of dealing with him--like a toddler or a teenager.