Part 2: Affair gone wrong

[ClearEyes]

First part can be found here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=338421.0

[Wicker Man]

First part can be found here [a different BPD help site]

I am going to start from the bottom up.  

To help me get through this I have dropped the word “love” from my vocabulary when referring to her.  

excerpt from www.bpdmadness-sexliesandbpd.com/12-broken/

I didn't find this page to be offensive or dangerous.  Yes -our loved ones with BPD traits are 'broken' -however it served me better to try to find out how and why.  Every misstep this person described in his (of her) list on the website can be explained by fear of abandonment, lack of object consistency, dysregualtion and the other various symptoms or defense mechanisms which can be part and parcel for bpd.

I am not sure how healthy it is to stop using the word love.  Repression is the revolving credit of our psyche.  Where would we all be if we didn't repress our issues from our family of origins?  Who knows, because most of us carry them throughout our lives for better or worse effecting our life's choices -mate, career, child rearing.  Only by facing repressed feelings can we hope to better ourselves and overcome them.

I loved Dream Come True with every ounce of my being, to say otherwise would be an untruth of the highest magnitude.  I still harbor 'love' for her in the form of pity.  I loved her, but not to the extend where I lost my love for self -I could not consign myself to the immolation of a future with her.  Having opened my heart to her and offered everything I have was a life changing experience and truly humbling.  I was not enough -another honest truth.  I should believe denying either of these truths would cost me in the long run.  I felt in my heart of hearts there was nothing I could have done to keep her with me -she would have left at some point. If I had believed she could have stayed in a marriage I likely would have tried to help her through a stable and loving home -but you cannot help someone if they leave without a word.

To have taken the former stance she is 'broken' -up her bum.  Is too easy and would have liked done me harm later in life.  To have denied the latter, her being dangerous, would have caused me far more tangible trouble in the short term.  I.e. financial ruin and a baby in China with someone capable of ripping flooring out of an apartment with her bare hands (she weighs 44kg)

Of all the websites I have read think I like this one the best:
www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/breakups-with-women-with-traits-of-bpd/

I know and I regret I didn't say it aloud how much hearing that [affair partner's sexual exploits] hurt me.

ClearEyes due to the way I was wired the pain of not saying something important to a loved one hurts me far more than the awkwardness of the conversation in the moment.  I don't know how one learns this -but it has made me the (worst) best friend one can have. Here is my theory -one day the person will be gone and I don't want to have to live with the things I should have said.  Ok... Here is a grizzly example.  I was out jogging with my dad and I had to tell him 'Drinking is destroying your life and you are taking mom down with you'.  He raised his fists and I opened my palms and put my hands at my sides.  -if he needed to hit me so be it.  I knew one day he would be gone and I did not want to carry the regret of not trying my best to help him see a different way.  He died in my arms a few years later -I miss him, but nothing went unsaid.  We loved each other deeply -each in our own ways.

You owe no debt such as this to your affair partner -I gave the aforementioned example as cost benefit analysis for 'decorum' in the moment versus having to live with the regret of not speaking your piece.  Dream Come True used to call me 'Monster' not in a bad way, but because no other human being had spoken to her the way I did.  Sex was not a lever for her, her beauty didn't effect me -I wanted her soul.  I valued what was between her ears not between her knees. Thusly I gave her my honest truth -if she left then she wasn't worthy of my gifts.  I wanted to build her up to be the best human she could be -I was her biggest fan (1.94m to be exact)...

Another object lesson from your affair partner inadvertently (because I believe there was likely no malice) hurting you by talking about her sex life...  She cannot be a healthy friend for you.  Further sex with her is not special -it is pedestrian and offered to the masses.  Walk away.  Take your gifts and offer them to someone who can understand and value them.  Pearls before swine -as the saying goes.

...Instead to avoid conflict, like I always do...

What is the worst thing that could happen if you said your peace in a kind and mitigated fashion?  If they don't like it then they are not worth of your care.. My mother taught me 'consider the source'  

I am hard to give a compliment to -because for it to actually touch me I have to feel one is my peer and knows something about what they are saying.  The very same goes for criticism -I have to respect the person.  When I felt I had to give Dream Come True constructive criticism it was out of love and if she bolted -then she was not worthy of my love.

I broke no contact at Christmas (the day she broke us the year before) to have some closure and perhaps help her on her path to healing (she thought her rage broke us, when it was actually the erosion of my trust).  She denied any wrong doing.  The last thing I wrote to her, as a last ditch effort through shock and awe to get her attention, was 'Until you stop using sex as a tool or a weapon you will be seen as a thing instead of the incredibly beautiful person you are inside.'  She stopped responding and I relocked her.  It hurt me to have written this and I knew it would be devastating for her to read -but I had to try.  She has the most lovely heart and soul -I wish she could see and understand it.  She lives in a very misogynistic culture and her modus operandi will only exacerbate her future pain.

I am a protector by my wiring -but I will say hard things when I feel it is necessary because I am ultimately, in my way, protecting them. -up to a point I would rather be hurt than hurt someone I care for.  Empathetically it is vicariously painful to say things I know will hurt someone I love -but love is hard and messy work.

...she told me how special I and our connection didn't in the end matter...  

This is the mind snapping thing about people with BPD traits!  You were not 'fooled', I would bet she meant it from the bottom of her heart in that moment... But object permanence is lacking.  She felt her love for you, likely, more deeply than you felt it for her.  She just cannot keep the notion straight in her head.  Perhaps spend some time reading on reddit what people with BPD say about themselves -it is tragic, but informative.  I silently read for months -I did not feel it was my place to comment.

When I fell in love with Dream Come True nothing in this world, or so I thought, could alter my strong and firm conviction -it takes a lot to make me take my toys and go home.  For her when I was out of sight I ceased to exist.  She spent the night with a colleague of mine 5 days after I left China -I was due back in a week. I believe she felt abandoned and to ease that pain she drove a wedge between us -impulsive behavior.  To keep herself safe in the moment she did long term harm.  Like NSSI (cutting in her case) it is a bandaid which temporarily stops the pain -but it does not address core issues -in fact it creates more shame.

She's been with someone new, or should I say a lot of someones, from the moment our relationship ended (maybe even earlier)... ...is this normal post-divorce behavior...

Once my rumination began, and for better or worse I have a good memory for conversation, I now believe she cheated on us frequently both literally and emotionally (non-physical inappropriate attention to others).  How could this be normal behavior?  Absolutely not.  Dangerous, demeaning and sad.

It is funny writing about all of this mess in the 'light of day'  I feel like a horses ass for loving someone like this, but there is such a searingly brilliant light inside her -and there is the deepest darkness I have ever witnessed.

I should warn our co-worker

This is tricky.  If you are a friend to him then by all means I would take him aside and ask him to think twice about having an affair (affairs are a dirty mess of horrible business).  I would not demonize the woman -but try to cut through his limerence (good f#cking luck).  He is going to do what he is going to do -but you have to gauge which will cause you less pain -telling him or not.  By pain I am including how it will effect your office environment.  You have to be careful not to slander the woman -you do not want to see her rage -which will be absolutely as passionate as her love.  I see life through the lens of 'social exchange theory' an economics based theory of gauging relationships and interactions.  E.g. it is bringing me more joy at the moment to write this than to do something else -the effort is worth the joy of the task.  It is overly simply, but it works for me.

People with BPD are, from what I have read, hyper empathetic -they just have no room for compassion for others when they are triggered into a defensive mode^*.  This is the horrible irony -they hurt themselves in the long run when they hurt us.  I hate the idea of Dream Come True having to live with 'oh god what have I done'  when she forgets her family will remind her.  However -she lacks the emotional control to live with the notion of causality.  She has to react in the moment -pain avoidance makes us unable to fully function in life.

^* Read about Dr. John Gottman's thoughts on diffuse physiological arousal.  The limbic system takes control from the frontal cortex and emotional regulation is hindered, as is sight and hearing.  Fascinating stuff.  When someone has an anomaly in their amygdala this effect is magnified to the point of utter mayhem.

From what I have read  Benzodiazepines will make people with BPD 'lose their minds -become even more impulsive'  SSRI can, in some cases, be helpful.  There really isn't a good and direct pharmacological answer for the treatment of BPD.  anti-psychotics are often contraindicated -they can have psychotic breaks, but the mechanism seems different from schizophrenia even if the symptoms appear similar.  There are so many possible comorbidities associate with BPD it is tricky to treat -NPD, HPD, OCD you get the alphabet soup idea. (keep in mind I am a photographer -not a doctor)

I also should find the anchor from within me.

Out of the mouth of babes -I laughed out loud when I read this!  If I have ever heard a pot calling a kettle black!  This is the woman who is trying to find herself through irresponsible sex right?  Did you notice you are the 2nd married man in a short time?  There is an element of self sabotage related to BPD -My theory is married me are subconsciously 'safe'.  When things blow up it can be the wife's fault instead of the gaping wound of a heart untreated people with bpd are trying to fill from without.  

After the dust settled and I began speaking with a mutual friend of ours (she was trying to get me to go back to Dream Come True) I came to learn her last boyfriend may have been  married -that would make me 3 in a row.  I think I was supposed to be a temporary bridging patch.  However, we each fell deeply in love -I find myself here and she has my name tattooed on her hand and still wears my mother's engagement ring -tragedy and irony to spare... ugh.

Of all the websites I have read I like this one the best:
www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/breakups-with-women-with-traits-of-bpd/

Maybe have a look at 'The Road Less Traveled'  There are some valuable insights, although I find Dr. Peck's writers 'voice' pompous (even compared to mine) and a bit insecure E.g. when he talks about needing to beat his young daughter at chess... Oh! that was painful.  

My father taught me chess at 3 and he instilled in me the joy of the game -win or lose.  It took me 4 years to beat him... That game he was reading a news paper and drinking a few beers (it was decades before he succumbed to alcoholism).  I remember when I said 'checkmate' he put the paper down and smiled and immediately went to tell my mom -I think he was more proud than I was.  

Life is about joy of the game -win or lose we must try.  Real failure is not trying at all.

[ClearEyes]

Of all the websites I have read think I like this one the best:
www.nicolamethodforhighconflict.com/breakups-with-women-with-traits-of-bpd/

Thanks for the recommendation, I read many of those articles yesterday. Especially the BPD - Nice Guy dynamic was something that I could strongly relate to. Yet, what slightly bothers me is that most of these websites and Quora/Reddit topics and comments are written by nons, which makes the atmosphere usually quite resentful, accusatory and hostile. I'd really like to read more from the perspective of BPD sufferers. So if you have tips about those, please share.

ClearEyes due to the way I was wired the pain of not saying something important to a loved one hurts me far more than the awkwardness of the conversation in the moment...You owe no debt such as this to your affair partner

She doesn't take critique well and I was afraid to worsen our relations both at work, where I need to see her almost daily, and also outside of work because I'm still holding up a fantasy that I could somehow help her. :/ And in overall I've always had troubles standing up for myself. Last friday when we met, she brought up that she's noticed that her behavior has been more indifferent and careless lately. Refering to that I sent her yesterday a message stating that I'm worried about that because when I got to know her, she seemed to be the most emphatic person I'd ever met. I also told to her to be careful so that she won't hurt herself badly again. Her reply was that I was over-interpreting her sayings and all is good..

The way she handles critique and guilt is very twofold. Sometimes she takes the blame and burden of all the injustices in the world that have nothing to do with her. On the other hand if she is critized of behaviors or actions she in fact is doing, like sleeping with about everyone she nowadays comes across, she only gets angry and defensive and doesn't seem to be able to understand or accept there could be something wrong how she's acting.

Did you notice you are the 2nd married man in a short time?  There is an element of self sabotage related to BPD -My theory is married me are subconsciously 'safe'.  When things blow up it can be the wife's fault instead of the gaping wound of a heart untreated people with bpd are trying to fill from without.  

In fact there's been 3 married men. The first one happened at the same time as our affair was evolving. To my knowledge nothing physical happened between them but there was this infamous "emotional connection", that she finds so easy to build, once again. When he realized that she doesn't want more from him, It made him eventually leave his job and change company. And what is sad is that when that happened I was feeling victorious because I considered him as my rival. :/ Poor me, I think he was the "winner" after all..

I know seeing and dating married men makes her feel extremely bad. She several times during the spring felt really guilty and down about breaking my marriage, causing suffering to my wife and also causing troubles to married man #1 mentioned above. I always told her that it's not her fault, the decision I made is my own cross to bear. Yet she's continuing on the same path getting involved with guys who have wife and children although it makes her feel really horrible about herself, it's like a really wicked manifestation of self-harming and compulsive behavior that she just must do.

 

[ClearEyes]

double post, sorry.

[Wicker Man]

I'd really like to read more from the perspective of BPD sufferers.

There are quora and reddit groups for people with BPD supporting each other.  The Mighty also has such groups.  Reading these forums did offer me some insight into how people suffering from BPD subjectively see the world.

It was actually out of compassion for the suffering of people with BPD which compelled me to make my first post here on BPD Family.  Dream Come True broke my heart and put me into a bit of an emotional tail spin -but it was not a Machiavellian plan for my destruction.  She literally has no control over her emotional state. 

I was able to extrapolate this to mean there was nothing I could have done to have a longterm relationship with her.  -It was very painful 'coming back to reality'.  I had constructed an incredibly beautiful and elaborate fantasy around what our future together might have looked like... I was mistaken.  18 months of therapy later I have all but completely come to be at ease with what transpired. 

...overall I've always had troubles standing up for myself...

Realizing this is half the battle.  I know how difficult it can be.  I am shy and introverted by nature, and yet have to be very outgoing at work.  I am most comfortable watching movies and reading books.  When I travel I have to force myself to leave the hotel and see whichever city I am in.  I wish it came more easily to me, but this seems to be my wiring.

A more tangible example of a change I had to make -I grew up terrified of heights and yet had to learn to work high -As a teen I took a job in a theater to overcome the fear... The first few weeks were some of the longest in my youth.  Now I can work high...  I don't like it, but I can function.

When we observe something about ourselves which makes us unhappy it is possible to effect change.  Sure... acrophobia is a simply phobia and relatively 'easy' to tackle^* but we are all able to, through hard work, better ourselves.  Be proud of your self observation -it isn't easy to self critique. 

^*I learned in college what I did to overcome my fear was called 'implosion' or 'flooding'.  I.e. exposing oneself to the fearful stimuli until the irrational fear lessens.  It is fast and effective, but traumatic.  What did I know... I was 16.

...she only gets angry and defensive and doesn't seem to be able to understand or accept there could be something wrong how she's acting...

From what I have read (and observed from my relationship) this seems to be common for people with BPD traits.  If they accept responsibility for dysfunctional or deviant behavior they can feel 'all bad'.  Black and white thinking applies to their view of self as well as others.  I think I mentioned, even at the end of days after we had been broken up for a year she could not speak openly about what happened between us -this actually did me a lot of good.  It reinforced my resolve, that no matter how much I missed this person, she is not able to have a healthy relationship at this point in her life.

...When he realized that she doesn't want more from him, It made him eventually leave his job and change company...

I know vicarious learning is sometimes hard to accept -but you have a model for what a relationship with this person looks like.  Please take this object lesson to heart -as charismatic and lovely as she may be -she is not ready for a healthy relationship at this point in her life.  There is no amount of wishing or loving which can change this. 

We cannot love a personality disorder out of someone  We read damning things about BPD which are polarized and unhelpful -we can also find articles on the internet which offer too much hope.  The truth lies somewhere in the middle -but it is all but impossible to have a heathy relationship with someone who suffers from BPD if they are undiagnosed and untreated.  They are simply in too much pain to be able to be compatible mates for the long haul. 

...it's like a really wicked manifestation of self-harming and compulsive behavior that she just must do.

The impulsive and destructive behaviors are hard to understand and perhaps it is better to simply accept them as a reality.  While accepting this reality we must also accept as a truth this impulsivity makes her dangerous.  I don't necessarily mean physical danger, but instead a danger to you emotionally, financially, and your health.

Please understand I don't believe I have ever enjoyed speaking to any other human being more than Dream Come True.  She is smart, funny, creative, and loving... Until she dysregulates then literally all bets are off.  She can rage, cheat, destroy things and there is no way to communicate with the lovely and rational part of her in these moments.  The limbic system is in overdrive and trumping the frontal cortex.  It is a physiological reality.  When very very stressed she can dissociate and or have psychotic episodes E.g. the trees and rocks gave her a mission.  This is a very serious mental illness which causes them great pain and confusion -when we love them and take them into our hearts we open ourselves up to... pain and confusion. 

When she split me, ghosted me and hopped in bed with some other guy I was poleaxed.  I remember and excerpt for our conversation.

Me: 'You are putting me through hell'
Her: 'I know'
Me: 'We love each other and there is no problem we cannot overcome'
Her: 'So boring'

In that moment she had no love for us and the previous year was forgotten.  This was a week before I was to inform my wife of my intention to divorce.  I wish I had seen Dream Come True's actions for that they were -but I was in such shock I could not process the events.  I even preformed mental gymnastics to the point of denying the obvious -she was cheating on us.  20/20 hindsight is painful.

Amor Vincit Omnia?  No. no. no.  Between the lack of object consistency or permeance, emotional dysregualtion, and dissociative episodes there is no way to build a 'love map' (Dr. Gottman term) or foundation for a lasting love.  When things go wrong or get stressful someone with BPD traits will fall into defense mechanisms learned in childhood and react poorly. 

Once again what convinced me to leave was the notion 'there is nothing I could do to help her feel safe in our relationship -she would one day disappear'.  No matter how much we loved each other it is simply impossible for her to keep the concept of our love straight in her head.  It is tragic and heartbreaking because we did have a lot of love for each other. I would have moved heaven and earth for her and she would have for me... Sometimes...

It is your life to live -but I would strongly advise easing away from your affair partner so you can have a clear head while taking stock of your future.  I don't know if your marriage is right for you, but I am sure you can't know either in your present state.  Give yourself the space and time to make good decisions going forward.

You cannot help your affair partner or love the pain out of her.  She has demonstrated to you time and again she is incapable of a longterm relationship at this point.  Only she can decide if and when her actions are harmful to her and thusly decide to seek therapy. 

You can't explain this to her -it is hers to realize if and when she does.  The prognosis for people with BPD traits is very good iff (if and only if) they seek treatment -but they have to make this decision on their own.
 

[ClearEyes]

Thanks for your frequent detailed answers, Wicker Man.

She has demonstrated to you time and again she is incapable of a longterm relationship at this point.  

While at the gym I was thinking if I'm too hard trying to fit this all into a BPD frame. Maybe the things are what they are for the reasons she has told me:

• She had very controlled and strict childhood (her father was a military officer)
• She was overweight at teenage and hated herself -> developed eating disorder
• Controlling and jealosy continued in her marriage, lost her identity during it
• She fell into a depression after a miscarriage
• Honeymoons end also in "normal" relationships and it's always a difficult phase, especially if it's an affair or a rebound
• She found out that she's way more sexual person while being with me than she had thought before
• My pondering between being with her vs guilty about leaving my wife + eventually my willingness for exclusivity made her anxiety and eating disorder so much worse, that she couldn't be with me
• She's been in a relationship for her whole adulthood -> she now wants to experience the things people usually do in high school / college: she feels empowered and she wants to be wild and free, and for the first time in her life no one is telling her what to do or how to behave (if this is the case, then I'm happy for her). She has also said that she isn't looking for a committed relationship at this point.

Yes, she has BPD traits that probably heighten some aspects, but I shouldn't forget the big picture either.

[Wicker Man]

It is nice chatting with you -and I say the things I do as an object lesson and reminder for myself.  I miss her -far less now than I did.  But... for a little tiny woman she sure left a great big whole when she left my life.

...I'm too hard trying to fit this all into a BPD frame

We as laypersons cannot and should not try to diagnose ourselves or others. Whether she suffers from BPD, presents some of the traits or there just wasn't the right 'chemistry' between you I still stand by the notion of slowing things ways down.  Seeing limerence for what it is and give yourself room to breath.

I deep dove into researching BPD after inadvertently reading a case example in a Jordan Peterson book where he mentioned a woman who cut herself and suffered from BPD...  Dream Come True used NSSI as a release so I started reading...  She mentioned her fear of abandonment in our first conversation.  I saw dysphoria, psychotic breaks, rage, phantom aches and pains and the rest of the other painful things which plague this poor young woman.  Whether she suffers from BPD or not I believe she was dangerous to my well being and she would have one day disappeared -we were planning to have a baby... 

During our relationship I made all manner of excuses for her behaviors -I was in love and she said she was too.  Hell -she claimed I was her first real love etcetera and so forth...

It wasn't until I woke up with a start one morning at 3am with the epiphany 'she will disappear' that all of the scattered data points through out our relationship coalesce into a terribly dark visage -I didn't trust her.

A diagnosis is irrelevant -what they say is (sadly) irrelevant --it is only their actions which have a concrete meaning.

By the way good for you for going to the gym!

[ClearEyes]

She just texted me. I asked can I make a call but she was on her way, apparently to see some other guy. :/ Summary of the messages:

Her: "Why were you so awkward today at work?"
Me: "Well you didn't talk to me anything either."
Her: "I was busy, nothing to do with you." (This is the point where I should've stopped this)
Me: "To be honest, I was also feeling hurt about the things you told me on Friday."
Her: "I won't talk about them anymore to you."
Me: "Talking about them is not the problem. I'm thankful that you did."
Her: *no response*
Me: "I don't want you to feel guilty. I'm happy for you that you can live your life the way you want." (Facepalm, shouldn't have said this.)
Her: *no response*
Me: "What do you really want from me?"
Her: "I've said I wanna be your friend."

So what is this all about. Through my paranoid "everything's BPD" glasses this feels like she doesn't want me to get too far and wants to have that control over me because she knows I'm always responding to her, no matter what she's saying.

After the conversation I almost threw up. This situation is starting to make me apparently also physically sick, no wonder though.

By the way good for you for going to the gym!

Yeah, I try to get my 3x/week routine going on again (one of the things that dropped during the toxic spring..) and I'm quite confident I'll succeed in it!

[Wicker Man]

I am sorry this is having such a dramatic effect on your life -but I am afraid I understand.

I know you miss her -or perhaps as in my case miss the idea of her. -the reality may be quite different from your hopes of earlier this year.

What does your therapist suggest?  My point of view is really rather narrow -because my experience was with a single relationship.  When I was young I had up a few up and down relationships -but when they ended they ended.  Nothing like this sort of sturm and drang.

My concern is I don't see you having healthy and or beneficial exchanges with her.  'Friendship' is not likely to be any less volatile and could easily bounce back into a confusing or hurtful circumstance.

You don't have to view any of this through the lens of a potential personality disorder.  Communicating with her gave you a very negative physical response.   Time to try something different.

[ClearEyes]

My T's opinion is that I should block her and the toxic effect she's having on me from my life for good. Her advices always sound simple but implementing them is definitely something else. :/

[Wicker Man]

I found therapy incredibly interesting --but that being said my shirt was damp by the end of every session.

What is the downside of following her advice at least as a trial run?

Since you have said more or less you have issues with standing up for yourself your affair partner is not really going to help your self-esteem.  The sort of variable reward schedule she has you on is the fastest to train behaviors and the most difficult to extinguish the behaviors after the training.  

I do not think this is conscious manipulation on her part -it is just her nature.  We, as people pleasers, end up doing what we do... We project our hopes, dreams and loyalty onto our 'friends'.  When it doesn't work out it leaves us hurt and confused.  

I was utterly straightforward with Dream Come True -but it was not her nature to reciprocate this sort of behavior -she didn't know how.

*** Edit. I would also like to add for a therapist to give such direct advice is rare.  She [therapist] must feel there is an importance and an urgency in this case.  For me to get direct and actionable advice from mine was like pulling teeth -he was not a life coach.  I had hired a life coach too -it turns out his dad has BPD...  The coach very directly said to get away from her and get back on track with my life.

My therapist wanted me to come to conclusions on my own.  After me very directly asking him if my fear of Dream Come True was warranted -and I reminded him the die was cast I had already ended the relationship.  I wanted to know his prognosis.  He finally with som e hesitation said you very likely dodged a bullet --He treats several people who suffer from BPD and before treatment they could not sustain relationships. 

[ClearEyes]

Her: "Why were you so awkward today at work?"
Me: "Well you didn't talk to me anything either."
Her: "I was busy, nothing to do with you." (This is the point where I should've stopped this)
Me: "To be honest, I was also feeling hurt about the things you told me on Friday."
Her: "I won't talk about them anymore to you."
Me: "Talking about them is not the problem. I'm thankful that you did."
Her: *no response*
Me: "I don't want you to feel guilty. I'm happy for you that you can live your life the way you want." (Facepalm, shouldn't have said this.)
Her: *no response*
Me: "What do you really want from me?"
Her: "I've said I wanna be your friend.

Projection / accusation of today:
Her: "Try to learn how to deal with your own emotions and stop pouring them on me. At least don't try to make me feel guilty about how I'm living my life."

Right. After she has poured her all emotional burden during the past six months on me, now the rules have changed. And she wants to be my "friend". What kind of friendship is that where we I can't talk about how I'm feeling? :p

I would also like to add for a therapist to give such direct advice is rare.

Yes, I'm extremely happy that I've found her as my therapist. But I think it's a bit sad at the same time because I think we could've been good friends also, of course I wouldn't have ever met her otherwise.   She gives straight feedback which I truly value. She's also starting to get a little frustrated with me, because I'm constantly doing the same things I shouldn't be doing, i.e. fixing things and emotions, mine and others. :/ In her opinion the main and only goal of the therapy is change. At the beginning of the summer she told me to leave my freakin' phone home (which I all the time use to google everything about the issues I'm facing, currently BPD..) and get drunk for a week, because that would be something different.  :D

[Wicker Man]

Her: "Try to learn how to deal with your own emotions and stop pouring them on me. At least don't try to make me feel guilty about how I'm living my life."

ummmmm...  that is tantamount to 'go to hell' to my old ears. 

I wouldn't say that to an enemy.  This is not how 'friends' speak to each other.  Here is a good litmus test...  If she were male would you still be her friend?  (this is not a trick question, but answer carefully... Actually it is a rhetorical question... because there is only one answer, as I live and breath, both you and I know what it is).


It is a hell of a thing to fall in love with someone and then realize they are not able to walk side by side with you through life.  It is a painful realization and following through with the necessary consequences of this realization are excruciating -but there is no other sane and responsible answer.  There are other answers... -plenty of them, but none are sane and responsible.

I have been 'out' for 18 months and I triggered several times today (I was working on set with dancers -she and I met on set and she had been a dancer in her youth) -but even when a twinges of pain come I remind myself there was only one responsible path and that path lead away from her.  You have no idea the immediate joy I would have gotten to be able to call her and tell her about my day -the lighting, choreography, the camera choices --but I know she is dangerous.  Lovely and dangerous.  I value myself and my life far far too much to let it be destroyed.


I am definitely a 'coping model' rather than the 'super man model'.  I wish any of this were easy, but it isn't.  Life isn't easy because it isn't polarized.  She (C or Dream Come True -take you pick) is not the devil -but they also cannot help us toward a healthy and happy future.  Why?  Because when they aren't feeling up to it they can pitch you under the bus and say things like... 'deal with your own emotions'.  Please don't let people treat you in this manner -because I do not believe you would ever treat another human being in such a fashion.

What kind of friendship is that where we I can't talk about how I'm feeling?

well...  right.  So?  Why not slowly ease away.  Stop rewarding her behavior and thus extinguish her interest in you -fade to black. 

I know there is no joy in removing ourselves from a dream or illusion (oh god do I know this), but we must!  We must if we hope to thrive.  No amount of love or projection can magically transform someone's worldview.   Let's leave magical thinking to the mental ill shall we?

I think it's a bit sad at the same time because I think we could've been good friends

1. Transference. 
2. Make sure you are not adapting and modulating your discourse with her to try to be her friend.  This may be a painful realization, but she is a hired gun.  She is your employee and the very same distance and respect must be given to a therapist as an employee. 

...I'm constantly doing the same things I shouldn't be doing, i.e. fixing things and emotions, mine and others.

This is a catch 22.  From what you have described these efforts, as well meaning as they may be, seem to be creating more harm than good.  Often in life the harder road is the right one.  I believe you have it in you to walk the right path once you decide which is the right one for you.

...I ... google everything about the issues I'm facing, currently BPD...

I am a big fan of learning -maybe think about or ask her why this is contraindicated.  Is it obsessive?  Hell -if this conversation we have been having is harmful in her opinion walk away.  You seem a smart fellow and I am sure you have a very good idea of how harmful a relationship with an untreated sufferer of BPD (or someone with BPD traits) can be.  Waiting for a second try with you affair partner is an all but guaranteed manner to ensure unspeakable pain and ruination.  I mean to your health, emotional state, self esteem, and financially.  She has shown you over and over who she is!  She just reminded you again today.

“When someone shows you who they are believe them; the first time.”

                                                                                             ― Maya Angelou

So... You have the information you need.  Listen to your therapist. I have never said this before -ever... but if this board is harmful in your therapist's opinion then take a break from it and follow her suggestions.  This website has been her a long time.  There is no urgency.

...get drunk for a week...

I understand her meaning -but being of Irish decent... I will  never have a drink when I am down.  I never want to make the link between 'feeling better' and that drug.  It had its way with my family.

[ClearEyes]

No amount of love or projection can magically transform someone's worldview.   Let's leave magical thinking to the mental ill shall we?

Well, I am mentally ill also.   The official diagnosis is OCD but we've been thinking with my therapist that probably more adequate would be general anxiety disorder (GAD) with OCDish traits when things get rough. So yes, my attempts to "fix" things, like googling all the available information about the worries I'm having, is often obsessive and compulsive. That also made me and C a "perfect" match because our relationship was not running out of problems and emotions that I could try to fix. :/

CBT/ACT framework is based on the idea, that we should live our lives according our values and do the things we wanna do, no matter what emotions, feelings or thoughts we're having. So how many minutes/hours per day would I like to spend searching information about BPD in my ideal life? Most likely zero. Actions change emotions and thoughts, not vice versa. And according to my T, who I met today for the first time in 4 weeks, we are starting to focus now heavily on actions because the current approach is not working. I got all the information I need, now it's time to put it into practise.

[Wicker Man]

...me and C a "perfect" match because our relationship was not running out of problems... ...I could try to fix.

I think I know the feeling.  I like to help people and the people I love in particular.  Dream Come True seemed to have a myriad of varies behaviors and thought patterns which I found novel and confusing (at best) and then there were some which were quite a bit darker.  I truly enjoyed the idea of bringing her happiness -as she brought it to me (when she wasn't making me sadder than I had ever been).  I think I mentioned she had stopped cutting after we were together -it felt nice to help her find a different outlet. 

I suppose this is the most difficult thing to digest -ultimately I don't think there was anyway for me to help her find happiness on a root level.

CBT/ACT framework is based on the idea... ... Actions change emotions and thoughts, not vice versa.

This is really interesting information.  I have read a little bit about CBT -but had never had it put so succinctly. I always enjoyed behaviorism, so the idea this works (actions leading changes in emotional state) makes me happy to learn from you.  I suppose I did something like this on my own.

After the bottom fell out of my relationship I felt depressed for the first time in my life -didn't like it very much...  So I decided to start doing the things I did for fun before becoming depressed, even though they didn't bring me joy at the moment.  I had hoped by doing the thing I knew were good for me, at some point, my system would 're-boot' and the depression would lift.  I would force myself to go biking, hiking etc  Slowly I seem to be enjoying these things again.  I am not completely back to 'normal', but I am getting there.

My wife has talked about getting back into therapy for her ocpd.  Her last therapist kept mixing up ocd and ocpd -ugh...  I actually suggested a CBT or DBT specialist because they are more likely to know about personality disorders.  We life in a smaller town -and there isn't a lot of choices for great therapists.  I was actually driving 90 minutes to get to mine -who I thought was wonderful.

...we [therapist] are starting to focus now heavily on actions because the current approach is not working. I got all the information I need, now it's time to put it into practise.

I am glad you and your therapist are going to try a different approach -that must have been exciting to hear.

[ClearEyes]

I always enjoyed behaviorism, so the idea this works (actions leading changes in emotional state) makes me happy to learn from you.  I suppose I did something like this on my own.

After the bottom fell out of my relationship I felt depressed for the first time in my life -didn't like it very much...  So I decided to start doing the things I did for fun before becoming depressed, even though they didn't bring me joy at the moment.  I had hoped by doing the thing I knew were good for me, at some point, my system would 're-boot' and the depression would lift.  I would force myself to go biking, hiking etc  Slowly I seem to be enjoying these things again.  I am not completely back to 'normal', but I am getting there.

Yeah the way you described is exactly how it goes.  The most eye-opening book about concrete actions how to take care of your mental health is Mark Freeman's Mind Workout: https://www.markfreeman.ca/books/, he's building great analogies between physical and mental health and it's definitely worth a read!

[Wicker Man]

Neuro-plasticity is fascinating.  I will look into the book.

Thank you.