Divorce BPD without an L?

[maxsterling]

Has anyone gone through the divorce process with a pwBPD without a lawyer?  I was talking with my sister about her recent divorce, and was shocked that neither her nor her ex hired lawyers.  Her ex is classic NPD or possibly BPD. 

[livednlearned]

How did things work out for her?

Some states seem to have family law courts that are much more sympathetic to pro se litigants (meaning, representing yourself).

[maxsterling]

I was shocked at how well it went.  She said he tired to be difficult at times, and still tries to be difficult, but I don't know if it went ok because of my sister or because of the court system where they live.  She said it did not go got trial, the judge talked them out of that, and they had some long settlement meetings, but did settle.

End result - both earn about the same amount of money.  She was not responsible for his CC debt.  One child lives with her, the other with him.  He pays her $45 per month to cover health insurance premium that she pays for the child that lives with him. 

I just thought he would throw every wrench in the works...

[formflier]

There are legal services where you can pay a small amount $20ish per month and get essentially unlimited phone support.

I use such a plan for support with real estate and other matters.  They have also coached me and answered general questions about divorce laws in different states.

So..perhaps if you had a plan like that and were really diligent about filling out forms and reading...perhaps it would work out ok.

But here is the thing.  If you are interested in court ordered (anything) counseling, evaluations..etc etc..I can't imagine that getting done without Ls.

You know your wife best. 

When you say "hey..let's fill out these forms and get divorced...she will...?"

Best,

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I tried doing a collaborative divorce through Legal Aid with my ex and to my surprise, he hired the most pit bull attorney in town and went after me for everything he could get out of me. I had to get an attorney and the divorce cost more, but I was able to protect my assets better.

I thought we could do it in a civil way, but he began lying and manipulating the system. Ultimately it all worked out well, and fairly, but it was an ugly process.

[worriedStepmom]

My H and his ex had an amicable divorce without an L.

At the time, she was high-functioning (waif type) yet had a tremendous fear of authority figures.  She thought if she went in front of a judge she'd lose everything. 

They also didn't have much in terms of assets.  All they had to work out was custody, and he refused to budge from 50/50 (standard in my state is 60/40). 

For our custody change last summer, we hired a lawyer.  xW did not show up at the temporary orders hearing date (fear of authority), so judge ruled H got whatever he wanted.  We had to pay the whole retainer - but without the hearing looming over her head, I don't think xW would have actually signed the paperwork.

[MeandThee29]

I'd give it a try. If nothing else, you can save some money if some of the issues are decided between you. Initially we planned to work it all out between the two of us and then have his lawyer draw it up for my lawyer to review.

However, I felt uneasy when I found out who mine hired to supposedly finalize what we were going to negotiate between ourselves. I had already dug up enough stories and got an early vibe that I didn't like. I actually refocused my search to find a better match for his lawyer. I paid the retainer and consulted him about what to watch for in the one-on-one related to my situation.

It worked for awhile. When I had enough of the attacks, I took the bits-and-pieces minus the attacks to my lawyer, who wrote a proper draft agreement and took over the negotiations. It was eye-opening to have my lawyer talk through all of the issues with the self-written agreement. His goal is to have an agreement that will survive any legal challenge, so there were some things he took out as being problematic and others he put in.

They objected to some items, and we countered. Waiting again.

It's horribly expensive, but if you have some assets, consider it an investment in your future. I know people who did it themselves but had no problem dividing things and didn't have much to begin with.

[maxsterling]

Interesting, everyone.

I'm more thinking about my sister, and wondering if anyone else had similar experiences.  

Regarding my W - She would probably want a L to try and stick me with everything.  Of course, she could not afford a L - so my guess is that she would either a) wind up in the hospital b) reluctantly sign to anything so long as she got enough to take care of herself and the kids after giving a pity story.  

Right now she is saying she wants a separation.  I'm at my wits end, so this doesn't really phase me.  I've been planning for how this will be.  The funny thing is she is not asking for anything (no - "you will have to pay for my new apartment" - instead it is "I could work enough and with my disability I could earn enough to take care of myself")  I think she wouldn't want much of my help.  Of course, I would sell the house, and I would give her half of the equity.  That's a great deal fro her considering she never had anything to do with the house (I bought it before I met her).  But legally, she gets half of whatever equity the house has accumulated since the time we got married.  And when we got married, it had about 0 equity.  I would simply offer her half in hopes that she would take the roughly $25K and hopefully not have to support her any more after that.  

[Turkish]

Not divorce, but seperation with kids, then D1 and S3.

We worked out the custody amicably, driven by me with a lawyer.  The CS was just math. I gave her a "severance" of a few thousand and let her live with us for four months, free room and board so she could save up.  Then I paid a $1k down payment so she could get a new car.

I hired the lawyer so I wouldn't miss anything.  She had wanted to do custody and CS without filing. No way! I kept her apprised of the process, didn't shame,  and used the bettering tools.  Surprisingly, she seemed afraid of going to court which was odd given she got an RO on the BF before me and an ex-parte RO on her current stbxh's brother. She seemed relived that we could file with the county without going to court. 

Do what you need to do for yourself and your kids max.

[mart555]

Even with lawyers, nothing prevents you from talking things over to try and come up with an agreement.   There are different levels of BPD and NPD.  I ended up with a category 5 divorce on both levels so yeah, lawyer it is.  And so far, it's expensive but seems to be paying off because the lawyer is protecting me from myself (ie: I'd be tempted to give too much as a caretaker and then regret it).

And in my case, I fear screwing up and losing the kids to her so I'm trying to minimize my chances of mistakes by using a lawyer. 

[livednlearned]

I think it's a little like doing surgery on yourself.

I would only recommend it if you have some really good leverage, feel your head is clear and you can focus on scaling a steep learning curve, and have some other kind of experience with the legal system and/or live in a county where family law courts are known for being lenient with pro se litigants.

[formflier]

I think it's a little like doing surgery on yourself.
 

Great analogy!

If it is simple and there is something buried in your skin, slicing it open yourself and tweezing it out shouldn't be too bad.

If it's complicated...you may pass out before you finish surgery.

Best,

FF

[MeandThee29]

And so far, it's expensive but seems to be paying off because the lawyer is protecting me from myself (ie: I'd be tempted to give too much as a caretaker and then regret it).

And in my case, I fear screwing up and losing the kids to her so I'm trying to minimize my chances of mistakes by using a lawyer. 

My lawyer commented one time that the law actually protects nice people too. I was wanting to cave on things where the law is black-and-white. Sure you can put anything in an agreement, but why agree to things that are contrary to the law? He told me about several cases where people gave in, and then later got into a bind and went back to court to have those things overturned with all of the expense and trouble over something that was cut-and-dried when the judge got it. He also told me of a probate situation where the children went back to court and had part of the agreement overturned that should never been in there in the first place. He didn't provide details of course.

OK, I'm paying to get it right the first time. Got it.

[maxsterling]

Interesting comments, everyone.

Honestly, the way my W is right now, I think any L would ultimately regret taking her on.  It seems she has about zero control over her emotional responses right now, and I doubt she is capable of following L's instructions.  

[mart555]

Honestly, the way my W is right now, I think any L would ultimately regret taking her on.  It seems she has about zero control over her emotional responses right now, and I doubt she is capable of following L's instructions.  

This is not your problem.  Well, it is. But you are divorcing for a reason: you want to get out of this.  If she can't follow her L's instruction, you think she'll follow yours and agree with something?

[ForeverDad]

Splitting the kids between parents is not a typical arrangement.  (Think of the movies Parent Trap.)  Do the kids still get to be siblings together at least some of the time?

I know this is an oversimplification (and there are many exceptions to typical patterns) but many here seem to report that more fathers than mothers are willing to walk away from controlling the parenting.  You are instead dealing with a disordered mother, so what worked for your sister may not work for you.

Still, at the very least you should have a lawyer in the background so the lawyer can prepare or review documents so that you can avoid the common traps and loopholes that may not seem obvious until they later cause great pain and frustrations.

[Cat Familiar]

There's things in life where it's appropriate to be frugal. Divorce with children is not one of them. However, you can minimize your attorney time by doing as much yourself as possible. But there are so many traps one can fall into without awareness of the legal ramifications. Get a good attorney.