Remnants of and a call from my ex... 11 years later

[Depression = 72% of members]

I heard from my ex a couple weeks ago.  Yeah.  11 years later.  Was about 2 minutes into the call before it registered fully that it was him.  Called to tell me he has been 'sick' and implied that somehow gave him insight into my experience with poor health.  He said he could not handle me being sick.  Closure?   that.

I thought that might be the case but I am still pretty damn upset about it.  I wasn't even that sick then.  I just could not do things like I used to do.  No way he could handle what I have going on now.  Hell, I am not sure any one would want to and I can't blame them.  In his defense, his wife passed away from cancer when their son was 9 months old or so.  It still hurts though.  Rather than tell me, he made it all about me being a needy clingy whiner.   I have looked at that part of what he said and yes, I have abandonment issues.  So does he.  We just did not connect well in that area.

I am back to hating him sometimes... not that I ever gave myself permission to fully hate him back then.  I was too busy dealing with major events in my life and shut down.  

He also talked of how I changed.  Like how I used to greet him at the door when he came home and I would smile and sometimes dance with him.  Well, sometimes depending on his mood he would call me childish and needy... it took a while to kill the spark and dull my twinkle dammit.  It hurt too much and I no longer wanted to take the risk.   I felt ashamed and even apologized for being 'inappropriate and childish'.

I did change though and that was not on him.  In the beginning I changed to be who I thought I should be and tried to act like a 'normal' girl without baggage.  Then I changed to be who I thought he wanted me to be because I was afraid to lose him.  I felt so damned lucky to have him.  I shrunk myself down and made myself small so he could feel good about himself.  And then I got good an angry about it and would lash out like any good co-dependent with PTSD.  

I can see both sides and I can see my role in it, really always have except I was looking at it through a lens of shame and humiliation, berating myself for just being me... whoever that was.

I guess this is part of me getting new lenses.

I am not exactly thrilled with this.  

[Harri]

I heard from my ex a couple weeks ago.  Yeah.  11 years later.  Was about 2 minutes into the call before it registered fully that it was him.  Called to tell me he has been 'sick' and implied that somehow gave him insight into my experience with poor health.  He said he could not handle me being sick.  Closure?   that.

I thought that might be the case but I am still pretty damn upset about it.  I wasn't even that sick then.  I just could not do things like I used to do.  No way he could handle what I have going on now.  Hell, I am not sure any one would want to and I can't blame them.  In his defense, his wife passed away from cancer when their son was 9 months old or so.  It still hurts though.  Rather than tell me, he made it all about me being a needy clingy whiner.   I have looked at that part of what he said and yes, I have abandonment issues.  So does he.  We just did not connect well in that area.

I am back to hating him sometimes... not that I ever gave myself permission to fully hate him back then.  I was too busy dealing with major events in my life and shut down.  

He also talked of how I changed.  Like how I used to greet him at the door when he came home and I would smile and sometimes dance with him.  Well, sometimes depending on his mood he would call me childish and needy... it took a while to kill the spark and dull my twinkle dammit.  It hurt too much and I no longer wanted to take the risk.   I felt ashamed and even apologized for being 'inappropriate and childish'.

I did change though and that was not on him.  In the beginning I changed to be who I thought I should be and tried to act like a 'normal' girl without baggage.  Then I changed to be who I thought he wanted me to be because I was afraid to lose him.  I felt so damned lucky to have him.  I shrunk myself down and made myself small so he could feel good about himself.  And then I got good an angry about it and would lash out like any good co-dependent with PTSD.  

I can see both sides and I can see my role in it, really always have except I was looking at it through a lens of shame and humiliation, berating myself for just being me... whoever that was.

I guess this is part of me getting new lenses.

I am not exactly thrilled with this.  

[JNChell]

Harri.   Being contacted by him had to be quite a surprise. It’s understandable that this stirred the pot.

I have to say, and I’m sure that you already know this, that this sounds like a charm.

Then I changed to be who I thought he wanted me to be because I was afraid to lose him.

A lot of us do this. We’re desperate as humans to feel genuine love. We didn’t as children. We don’t want to lose our SO’s because, for some of us, we’re losing what we’ve been fighting for since infancy. It’s human nature to want to feel love.

I shrunk myself down and made myself small so he could feel good about himself.

Parental guidance?

I’m sorry that contact from your ex has you where you’d rather not be. If I read your post correctly, he was being sympathetic but also trying to take wind out of your sail. If this is the case, he contacted you for his needs.

Get some really cool frames along with those new lenses.

[Woolspinner2000]

Hey Harri,

Darn processing, especially the kind that creeps up and gets you when you are not wanting it.

As you so often say, we are hear (yes, deliberate play on the word) for you. I'm glad you are sharing this with us.

 
Wools

[Harri]

Hi JNChell and thanks. 

It’s human nature to want to feel love.

Yes.  I am looking at the price I was willing to pay though.  I can't paint him as all bad because he wasn't.  7.5 years that were mostly good but got very bad in the last couple of years.  Looking back now I can link it with my health issues and that hurts a lot.  I feel defensive and angry and I am not certain how much that is distorting my view of him right now.  He was sensitive and defensive and had little self-awareness.  Actually I am not sure of that last part... it was like he had awareness but only as how he was the poor misunderstood good guy who had his act together. 

He broke up with me over the phone.  It was a week before another big surgery I was having and I think he was scared of possible complications again.  I know I was.  When he dumped me, I decided right then and there that I was done.  There would be no contacting him to try again and I also decided to make sure he would not want to contact me too.   After he was done telling me it was over for him, I said "I understand.  You are a pathetic little man".  I knew that would keep him away from me. 

I did not count on him contacting me 11 years later though.  I don't think it was a recycle attempt though JNChell.  I mean I am cute as hell and quite the catch and all (haha) but 11 years later?  No.  I do agree that he contacted me for his own needs.   He could be shockingly self-centered and callous.  He could also be incredibly kind and generous and giving of himself.  Sometimes i miss that.  Not him but that connection with someone.

And I think that is what hurts the most.  His call and words about my health and his issues just hammers home the reality that it is likely I won't have a friend like he once was.  That is what I miss and what I want.

If I read your post correctly, he was being sympathetic but also trying to take wind out of your sail.

I think his way of expressing his sympathy and understanding of what I was experiencing back then is quite self-centered and selfish.  Thoughts?  Am I distorting things here?

Hi Wools!  In response to your "we are hear for you" I say "ears lookin' at you kid" 

[Kwamina]

Hi Harri

I heard from my ex a couple weeks ago.  Yeah.  11 years later.

He broke up with me over the phone.  It was a week before another big surgery I was having
…….
….the reality that it is likely I won't have a friend like he once was.  That is what I miss and what I want.

These quotes pretty much sum it up for me. A true friend would not leave you to deal with a major surgery on your own. Someone who genuinely cares about you also would not call out of the blue 11 years later talking this way about your health issues and all the other issues he perceives.

He might have been a friend once, but he certainly wasn't 11 years ago when he broke up with you like that and he also definitely wasn't when he called you a few weeks ago talking smack.

How did the phone conversation end?

The Board Parrot

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi Harri

These quotes pretty much sum it up for me. A true friend would not leave you to deal with a major surgery on your own. Someone who genuinely cares about you also would not call out of the blue 11 years later talking this way about your health issues.

The Board Parrot

I strongly second this, and I would add that in a true friendship you would not have to change yourself to be what the other person wanted you to be in order to avoid losing the relationship.

Did he ever change things about himself for you?

I think his way of expressing his sympathy and understanding of what I was experiencing back then is quite self-centered and selfish.  Thoughts?  Am I distorting things here?

I don't really think it was sympathetic at all, nor do I think it was understanding. I think it was an attempt to make himself feel better. Maybe he expected you to give him what he could not give to you- support for his health struggles.

If he had real self-awareness, he would acknowledge his real reasons for leaving you when you were about to have surgery. He would own that and apologize for it, whether you were ready and willing to forgive or not. He would not try to make excuses or control how you feel about him. I think you are right about the "misunderstood good guy" image he is trying to feed you, and it's BS, imo. Maybe he did have legitimate reasons for being afraid of going through another health scare with another partner. But true self-awareness would not use that as an excuse without acknowledging the pain he caused you by abandoning you when you needed a true friend.  

[zachira]

He sounds like an awful guy to me. Breaking up with you over the phone is just plain cruel and all about his needs. You have grown and changed in 11 years, and he is pretty much who he was then. Clearly now, you would never go out with a guy like him. Can you tell us what kind of man you would like now? You may think this is a crazy question? I once had a friend who was paralyzed from the waist down, and she and another man in a wheel chair fell in love and had a loving relationship. She was elderly, gray hair and all, he considerably younger and quite handsome. I later met other friends of hers who were in wheel chairs and had found love after becoming disabled; one of them a woman in a wheel chair married a great guy with no health problems. Many people on this site love and really care for you. I wouldn't rule out love in the future. Being open to new possibilities makes it possible for good things to happen though you may not get exactly what you are thinking of.

[JNChell]

You know, the biggest thing that sticks out to me is you saying that he wasn’t all bad. You own your part and you’re aware of yourself. You’re giving grace. Still, 11 years later had to be something to think about. Have you asked him if he’s put the work in?

[JNChell]

He will say yes and no. You’ll know the real answers. Be safe Harri. We love you.

[Harri]

How did the phone conversation end?

Hi Parrot!  It ended with me saying goodbye.  He said he would call me again to keep me posted on his recovery (heart surgery) and I said I wished him a speedy recovery but he did not need to call me.  He said he wanted to as it was important to share and I said Please don't, goodbye and hung up.

I do wish him a speedy recovery.  I don't want him or anyone to be sick.  I also don't want to be in the position of him looking to me to offer sympathy and support.  I don't have it in me, not for him.  I hate making comparisons but (!) while his health issue was serious, it was also acute and he will not experience huge changes in his life like losing financial stability, losing the ability to sustain a career or have to sit back and watch friends trickle away like a slow bleed over the years.  Not to mention physical limitations, chronic pain and hospitalizations.  <end whine>  He does not have to deal with any of that and I resent his (him) thinking we somehow have something in common there.  I woke up wrestling with the sheets, trying to punch the hell out of him in my dreams.    I am angry.

Did he ever change things about himself for you?

Nope, not that I am aware of anyway.  I am sure there are some things he changed or at least pretended to be interested in for me.  The thing is, I was so naive and *grateful*, convinced he was a gift in my life, that I actually told him something along the lines of 'since I am the one with such limited experience and don't really know who I am, I think it would be easier for me to change'.  I saw the areas where I lacked knowledge and experience and i wanted to grow, not understanding that I needed to learn who I was before I could really work on or change anything.  To know that is where I go in an intimate relationship saddens me.  I don't think i would do the same now, but I am not entirely sure of that.  

When I look at how I changed myself I can see a basic dishonesty there.  I can see how confusing and hurtful it was for him, for me to present one way and maintain that for a while and then get angry and resentful and lash out.  I could see it back then too and I remember talking with him about it and owning it.  I also remember him using that as a means to sort of cushion his actions and words and excuse his part of the unhealthy dynamics.  That would happen so frequently that eventually I stopped apologizing and being open about owning my part in our issues.  I resented his ability to hide behind my behaviors and in response I got angry and did the same back to him... but with awareness.  I am not excusing him here.  I think there is a difference between acting deliberately like I did and acting without awareness though.  

I don't really think it was sympathetic at all, nor do I think it was understanding. I think it was an attempt to make himself feel better. Maybe he expected you to give him what he could not give to you- support for his health struggles.

Yes.  I think so too though maybe it is my mind trying to make sense of something that seems bizarre to me.  Calling like he did just seems strange.  

Can you tell us what kind of man you would like now?

No, I can't.  I haven't actually thought about it in a long time.  It hurts and seems so far out of reach.  

I wouldn't rule out love in the future. Being open to new possibilities makes it possible for good things to happen though you may not get exactly what you are thinking of.

My hard outer shell surrounding men is cracking a bit here and there and I am surprised that while what I wrote just above is true, I am not completely closed off to the idea.    Thank you zachira.

Have you asked him if he’s put the work in?

I actually did very little talking during the phone call and I did not ask him this.  It does not matter if he did or not.  I don't want him, not as a friend and not as a romantic partner.  I feel dirty thinking about either role with him again.

He wasn't all bad.  That's the thing though.  I had this double standard for so long but against me, not others.  Other people could make mistakes, could be who they are even if I may not like it and it does not make them bad.  But I was all bad (that is the way I saw myself)... and I would act and talk in ways that made it okay for him to think so as well.  In a harsh sense I sort of set him up by not being honest about who i was, though now I can see i did not know who I was <---- a glimmer of self-compassion?  When I met him I had recently moved out of my parents house, was  coming off of a very long period of emotional numbing as a result and could not buy dish soap without worrying my mother would get mad with my choice.  

I was ripe for someone like him to come along.  I found out in the relationship, once it became romantic, that he wanted me specifically because I was sexually abused and he thought I would be open to a lot of the things he wanted in terms of sex.  

I haven't quite wrapped my head around all of that though.  Was he a predator of sorts, acting with intent?  Or was it just the way things came together?  Or something in between?

I don't know.

[pursuingJoy]

I said Please don't, goodbye and hung up.

Well done! You should be angry. Calling you was self-serving, maybe to assuage his own guilt over his lack of support for you when you needed him? Yuck.

While his health issue was serious, it was also acute and he will not experience huge changes in his life like losing financial stability, losing the ability to sustain a career or have to sit back and watch friends trickle away like a slow bleed over the years.  Not to mention physical limitations, chronic pain and hospitalizations.  <end whine>

Not whining! You're presenting a valid comparison to a host of people who care.

I found out in the relationship, once it became romantic, that he wanted me specifically because I was sexually abused and he thought I would be open to a lot of the things he wanted in terms of sex.  

This is predatory.

He played an important role in your life after you left home for the first time. Heck, he has now offered you the gift of additional insight, maybe leading to a crack in your hard outer shell for men. Now you have your peace, health, heart and a full life full of options to worry about. Thank him for the gifts and keep yourself safe.

[Harri]

This is predatory.

  Hi!      Thanks for jumping in here.

Predatory... I keep shying away from that and I think it is out of pride.   I am not sure I can avoid it though.  I can remember the words he would say sometimes and it leaves me no other way to look at this except to deny and hide... and pretend I don't understand.   I've struggled with the idea that I was a victim of abuse of my mother so I am wondering if that is part of my reluctance here.  It feels different with my ex though... or maybe not.  I think about it and I am embarrassed, sad that I was so grateful and happy that someone wanted me and it turns out they did not want me they wanted the byproduct of the events that occurred in my life.  I've skirted around this realization several times before. 

I feel like the dumb eager little puppy he once called me when he came over and I was so happy to see him... he was in a mood and looked at me with disgust, shaking his head and telling me to leave him alone.  He would say and do things like that and I would tell myself that he did not know better and he was not aware.  That I could handle it and love him anyway, and show him what love was.  I can see the arrogance in me in that.  The rescuer who thinks they have all the answers.  I knew nothing of love.  I tried to get him to love me the way I needed rather than looking at his version of love and seeing if it fit.  We were both very selfish in that way.

He played an important role in your life after you left home for the first time. Heck, he has now offered you the gift of additional insight, maybe leading to a crack in your hard outer shell for men. Now you have your peace, health, heart and a full life full of options to worry about. Thank him for the gifts and keep yourself safe.

  yes.  I do see this as a gift and an opportunity for me to work on things I need to heal in order to be whole and really embrace my life again.  Thank you for that. 

[pursuingJoy]

Hey Harri  

I feel like the dumb eager little puppy he once called me when he came over

This stands out to me. It's how I felt on my 29th birthday when I asked my friends not to forget it was my birthday. Separated, three little kids, no job, housed by my church, family hated me. Besides, who cared about a stupid birthday. I was so embarrassed to have to ask to be remembered so I made up excuses not to ask. I ended up asking because in the end, it was more scary to me to be forgotten. My point: I was exercising an important emotional muscle to reach out and ask to be loved, even through the shame.

CS Lewis about shame: "If you will attempt it—if you will drink the cup to the bottom—you will find it very nourishing; but try to do anything else with it and it scalds." <---That's what you're doing. Do you know how strong and amazing you are?

I knew nothing of love.

You knew you wanted love. The love you were hungry for wasn't offered to you freely by your mom, so you found ways to get what you needed. Maybe you didn't use the best of techniques, but you were surviving. More than that, you've never stopped growing. More than THAT, you use what you learn to help others. You understand love now. Mad respect from this corner of the world.

[JNChell]

I can remember the words he would say sometimes and it leaves me no other way to look at this except to deny and hide..

Hide from what?  Maybe I dug this little nugget out of context. If I did, you’ll tell me. If not, ...

[Harri]

Hi PJ!  Sorry I took so long to respond.  Thinking and all. 

I am sorry you had all that happen in your life.  That sounds really difficult.  I am happy that you were able to ask your friends to celebrate you though!  Good for you for fighting through the fear.  It is so strange to me that some of us have such trouble asking for even basic things like acknowledgement of just Being.  Have you gotten better at asking for what you need without feeling less than or guilty for needing something or daring to ask?

Thank you for your perspective on what I am doing.  It sounds so lame when I say that.  There really is no way for me to describe what I felt when i read your words.  Thank you. 

JNChell, hide from the realization that my ex wanted me not for me but, at least in part, because of the sexual abuse and what he thought that would translate to in terms of sex with me.  It touches on some really deep fears and scars that the abuse will be all other people can see when they get to know me.  It is such a small part of me, or it is when i am feeling strong and capable.  To have him hone in on it and when I remember the way he would talk about it...  He wanted a porn star in bed.  Instead he got me, not a prude but hardly a pro.    I fear his wants and needs drove his patience with me at the beginning. 

His patience and kindness at the beginning, his *understanding* my needs to not be controlled or coerced... was in fact controlling and coercive?  Towards the end, even before I got really sick, I closed myself off and did not want intimacy, sexual or otherwise.  He had become demanding and demeaning.  Spiteful too.  coming up behind me and grabbing at me which he knew was a huge trigger for me and he never did it in the early years.  When I would react and get upset I was told to manage my triggers as they were mine to own.  The thing is, I fully believe, always, that I am responsible for my triggers and managing them.   That it is not so much that I have baggage but how I manage it that matters (again, this is what I believe and can stand firm on when I am feeling strong and healthy).  Yet, he set me up and would purposely do things that he knew were not good for me.  There is no way he 'forgot'.  I am angry with him for that.

I am pissed with myself for actually at one point *thanking him* for helping me work through my 'issues'.   

Which brings me to the quote of CS Lewis about shame provided by PJ:  "If you will attempt it—if you will drink the cup to the bottom—you will find it very nourishing; but try to do anything else with it and it scalds."

[Kwamina]

Hi Harri,

Good to see you back here

I found out in the relationship, once it became romantic, that he wanted me specifically because I was sexually abused and he thought I would be open to a lot of the things he wanted in terms of sex.  

...the realization that my ex wanted me not for me but, at least in part, because of the sexual abuse and what he thought that would translate to in terms of sex with me.
…...
To have him hone in on it and when I remember the way he would talk about it...  He wanted a porn star in bed.

I do think that this is very concerning behavior from him, looking back I would definitely classify this as major red flags. Hindsight with the knowledge and skills we have now, is always 20/20 though , particularly when it's powered by Parrot Vision.

He had become demanding and demeaning.  Spiteful too.  coming up behind me and grabbing at me which he knew was a huge trigger for me and he never did it in the early years.  When I would react and get upset I was told to manage my triggers as they were mine to own.

We all are indeed responsible for managing our own triggers. We quote Pete Walker a lot around here as you know:

"Remind yourself: "I feel afraid but I am not in danger! I am safe now, here in the present." Remember you are now in the safety of the present, far from the danger of the past."

However, Sunfl0wer once made a very important observation about this quote. Events in the present can indeed trigger over the top emotional/behavioral responses in people who've been traumatized in the past. But, this does not have to mean that what's happening in the present is actually ok. Sometimes the present actually isn't safe and actually provides a hostile and dangerous environment, in which it is likely and even to be expected that you are going to get triggered. Your boyfriend's behavior was not particularly healthy, he did not provide a particularly safe environment, certainly not a safe environment for someone who has been sexually abused in the past. So yes, manage your triggers to handle the effects of past events, while at the same time be very mindful of what's going on in the present and set and defend boundaries to ensure you indeed have the safety you need in the present by protecting yourself against others' harmful behaviors.

The link to Sunfl0wer's old post which is part of a thread started by our favorite llama Woolspinner2000:

Managing Emotional Flashbacks (Reply #8)

The Board Parrot

[Harri]

However, Sunfl0wer once made a very important observation about this quote. Events in the present can indeed trigger over the top emotional/behavioral responses in people who've been traumatized in the past. But, this does not have to mean that what's happening in the present is actually ok. Sometimes the present actually isn't safe and actually provides a hostile and dangerous environment, in which it is likely and even to be expected that you are going to get triggered. Your boyfriend's behavior was not particularly healthy, he did not provide a particularly safe environment, certainly not a safe environment for someone who has been sexually abused in the past. So yes, manage your triggers to handle the effects of past events, while at the same time be very mindful of what's going on in the present and set and defend boundaries to ensure you indeed have the safety you need in the present by protecting yourself against others' harmful behaviors.

I've been thinking about this ever since you posted it Kwamina.  I went back and read the thread too.  Thank you.  Yep, it really has taken this long for it to sink in and it is not even sunk in all the way yet! 

How to tell?  How to distinguish?  My danger meter is still off tho better calibrated than it used to be.  Does it matter in the moment?  Can we just take a time out and say "hey wait, I need some time here to sort out my feelings?" and if the person has a problem with that then clearly they are not for me (I am thinking of a hypothetical romantic scenario here, not necessarily involving sex but something involving emotional intimacy)?   And if is is a sex situation, what man will put up with that?   

 

[I Am Redeemed]

Can we just take a time out and say "hey wait, I need some time here to sort out my feelings?" and if the person has a problem with that then clearly they are not for me (I am thinking of a hypothetical romantic scenario here, not necessarily involving sex but something involving emotional intimacy)?   And if is is a sex situation, what man will put up with that?   

 

An emotionally mature, emotionally healthy, secure individual who knows what it means to respect another person. There must be some of them out there...right?

[Harri]

An emotionally mature, emotionally healthy, secure individual who knows what it means to respect another person. There must be some of them out there...right?

I do believe they are out there.  As a matter of fact, while I know we are not the healthiest bunch on this site, I read some of the posts on the relationship boards and I am floored at the amount of understanding, patience, commitment and love that is expressed.   My question is born more from my own fears and insecurity than a reflection of how I see men as a group.  Heh heh, I am not a fan of people in general, but as individuals I love them and appreciate them.   I actually have a harder time relating to women in real life than I do men.  The reasons for that are obvious to me. 

Going back to my question about what man would tolerate that, I think you are right about someone who is emotionally mature and secure in who they are would be better able to handle it and be able to have his own boundaries around the issue.   So, not necessarily  someone with no baggage of his own but someone who has worked on his recovery if needed and who can handle their baggage while I deal with mine.

Just rambling.  Thanks IAR!   

[Kwamina]

Hi Harri

It's ok, just take your time beagle, slow and steady wins the race, just ask tortoise and hare:

Can we just take a time out and say "hey wait, I need some time here to sort out my feelings?"

Yes we can, if the person is emotionally mature enough, able to empathize with what you've been through and has a good understanding of how past events can affect someone in the present. And even if the other person is not that mature, we can still take that time out because that's your decision to make and your boundary to set and defend, regardless of what the other person thinks about it. You get to decide the tempo of the race you want to run, no one else.

…..and if the person has a problem with that then clearly they are not for me (I am thinking of a hypothetical romantic scenario here, not necessarily involving sex but something involving emotional intimacy)?

If the person does not respect your 'no', that's a clear red flag there. If the person somewhat respects your 'no' but still expresses him or herself in a negative or unpleasant manner, that can also be a clear red flag. People can grow though, but ultimately these kinds of things are about you and your boundaries and your 'no' is 'no'. Not a 'maybe' or 'yes later', just 'no'.

  And if is is a sex situation, what man will put up with that?    

An emotionally mature man, basically the same one I described above Empathy and understanding are key and being able to balance one's own needs with the needs of others.

The Board Parrot

[Swimmy55]

Really thought provoking posts .
I am sorry , Harri, that you suffered by his contact- It basically sounded like he was scared / whatevs and needing validation and ego strokes for himself.  You are so right to have told him to not call you again and hang up on him.  I'd also go as far as to block his number.  The gall of him to almost insist he keep calling you...? It seems like you are obtaining a lot of insight from this interaction, though.  While it is painful, that is good.  It seems you have grown tremendously from when you were first with him- Keep on taking care of yourself.

[Swimmy55]

You have been of so much help to so many here on these boards, please also keep that in mind as you move forward.

[TelHill]

I heard from my ex a couple weeks ago.  Yeah.  11 years later.  
I thought that might be the case but I am still pretty damn upset about it.  I wasn't even that sick then.

I can see both sides and I can see my role in it, really always have except I was looking at it through a lens of shame and humiliation, berating myself for just being me... whoever that was.

I guess this is part of me getting new lenses.

I am not exactly thrilled with this.  

Harri,

I never like these blasts from the past, especially from an ex that I wasn't exactly thrilled with. Don't know if this helps...glad you are not JADE-ing and are detaching after sitting with the pain. So what if you thanked him? White lies smooth things and get problems off your back.

From your first to last post on this show your strength and resilience.

Glad you told him to never call. Meanwhile, block the ex's phone number and wish them well in your mind. He'll receive real growth from professional counseling/12-step groups and his own motivation/hard work. Does not need you for that!   

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi harri :
I understand asking that question out of your own fears and insecurities. I have that, too. The thought of even a hypothetical relationship scares me right now because, as history has shown, I do not seem to attract healthy partners. Another way to say that is "boy, IAR, you sure know how to pick 'em"

Part of what makes this community so great is that people like us, who, as you so delicately described, are not the healthiest bunch, can learn together what actual healthy relationships look like, and contrast that with the unhealthy dynamics we have accepted previously.

We also get the opportunity to become healthier ourselves. Questions like yours in this thread show the inner workings of the learning process, and they are valuable to all of us who are still working out the practical application of healthy interactions with others.

[Harri]

Kwamina, Tel-Hill, Andy and Swimmy, thank you for hearing me, supporting me and jumping in here with me.  It makes a difference when processing all of this.  I have had this stuff buried deep for a long time and have felt such shame over it.  Having you be willing to read and chat with me about it is a big deal for me.  Thank you.

Yes we can, if the person is emotionally mature enough, able to empathize with what you've been through and has a good understanding of how past events can affect someone in the present.

Yes.  Reading this, I realize I still want my past not to matter.    I have more acceptance work to do here.  Of course it matters.  Of course my past does not define me but it is a part of me.  How many times do I have to work on this?  Grrr... Look at how all over the place I am with this.  One minute, I want the past not to matter at all and the next I am clinging to it and using my fear as a way to stay stuck so I can be safe.  The killer part for me is I can see me doing this but hell if I can stop it!  Knock it off Harri!  At least my journey is not boring.   

And even if the other person is not that mature, we can still take that time out because that's your decision to make and your boundary to set and defend, regardless of what the other person thinks about it. You get to decide the tempo of the race you want to run, no one else.

Yes.  Thank you for putting this into words for me.  My decision, my choice and my boundaries.  All of those things come with consequences and one of those consequences might be that the other person gets upset or angry for their own reasons or I may see a part of them that ends up being a deal breaker for me.  I have to be okay with that and stop trying to please everyone at my own expense.  I don't mind giving in on most things and compromising, but I think boundaries/values are hard line for me.   Shouldn't they be?

The funny/ironic thing is when i am talking/thinking about this in a sexual relationship, none of this will really be an issue for me in the moment.    By that I mean, I do not just jump into sex all willy nilly (haha).   It means something to me.  It's not that I may not want it, it is that I will not act on my wants if I do not feel trust, safe, love. 

And that brings me back to hurting about this long over relationship with my ex.  After a lifetime of thinking I am less than and would never have a relationship with a man, I did trust, felt safe with and loved him.  I can't regret that, but I do regret that it was as disordered as it was.  Not sure what to do with that.  It hurts.  Like I finally got something I longed for but had long ago accepted as being impossible only to find out it was a lie.  I want that not to be true.  I want to find something that was real and good in it and maybe I need to look to myself for that rather than him or the relationship.  Maybe the fact that I took that leap to begin with and flew for a bit is what I need to focus on... so what if I eventually crashed with a glorious splat!  So what if it turned out I was wrong and made a mistake. 

I think maybe the biggest mistake I made was to not re-group and instead hid and retreated in my hurt and everything else that was going on at the time... and I stayed there. 

All of that seems so obvious and elementary but it is new to me. 

[Methuen]

An emotionally mature, emotionally healthy, secure individual who knows what it means to respect another person. There must be some of them out there...right?

I am entering this thread to state that there definitely are these kind of men out there.  I am lucky enough to be married to one.  I count my blessings every day for his support.  These good people do exist.  We have been married for 31 years.

If that dude from 11 years ago has the nerve to call you again after you specifically asked him not to...in that moment (if you even choose to answer the call)...ask yourself..."was he a "kind" person to me back then?"  If the answer is no, it is my feeling that it is OK to hang up on him.  He needs to get the message.  Repeat as necessary. 

Then meditate, live in the present (without criticism), and move on.   

[Turkish]

Late to the party hear but my initial reaction is that he's a self-serving "please read." I'm being nice, but he's hurting. It's not your job to heal him though you could show grave by kindly detaching...

Not to hijack, but you know my ex asked to come back after 3 years. I was called out as failing and lacking character at the time she left. Not to be a Narc, but I'm awesome, and you're awesome. Of course they would reach out to us after failing!

Despite the messages we get otherwise, from parents, family, and ex's, we should remember that we are awesome unto ourselves.

[Cloudy009]

I don't know the whole story of your ex but he seems like a creep.

 I got mixed up with an abusive creep and it was the final thing that broke me after having an abusive childhood. He was very abusive too. It was right after I left him I had thought I got away but he got to me and I had a breakdown.

I won't go into more of my story about him here. Maybe I will post it another time but I was so proud of you when I read how you firmly told him not to call you again even though he was having heart surgery.

Me seven years ago with no boundaries would have felt guilty and like I was a bad person saying that and would have let someone like that right back in to my life thinking I was a mean person if I didn't do otherwise. Its funny because when you wrote that not one part of me thought you were mean I was actually like "You go girl!" That is the way a strong women handles men. Especially ones who are messed up.

I actually didn't realize until now you are female. I didn't notice the gender signs under the names and I assumed by your screen name you are male.

I have to read some of your posts again because I could already relate but I feel like I can relate even more knowing that you are female and were also abused by your mother.

This post actually reminds me of a TED talk I just watched where the women is talking to young girls and tells them 'it's never a compliment when a guy wants to sleep with you. Every guy wants to sleep with you.' She goes on to tell girls to firmly say "No" because as she says every man will come in and mess up your world.

[JNChell]

So, not necessarily  someone with no baggage of his own but someone who has worked on his recovery if needed and who can handle their baggage while I deal with mine.

Makes sense. On top of that, it also makes sense that a certain level of intimacy might be built on knowing about each other, both understanding what healthy boundaries are and eventually knowing that the two people have each other’s backs and are there to support one another when needed. In a nutshell, neither person is a dumping ground for emotions. Healthy give and take creates balance.