I don't think it's a big deal, just talking through response

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I got an email from the kids' mom last night; she didn't send it to DH.

Hi kells76,
SD11 was talking to me tonight about DH planning to take her camping alone this weekend. She’s not feeling great about it and would like to have a conversation with DH about her feelings but is not feeling confident about how to approach that conversation. She asked if I could sit with her and help her talk to DH about her feelings but I suggested that maybe it would be more helpful if you sat with her instead. She was amiable to this idea so I’m wondering if you could make some time to talk with SD11 and hear her concerns and then support her in sharing them with a DH. She is very eager not to disappoint DH but is also having a lot of big feels around spending that time away with only him.
Thoughts?
~ Mom

I said "Thanks very much for the info; I appreciate it!"

I talked with DH about it and shared that I'm not super excited about the idea of "DH and I together talking with SD11" -- something about that suggestion seems triangle-y. It seems like it'd be better for SD11 to have that talk be just her and DH. I shared with DH that if he could check in with SD11 in a general way before I get home from work that maybe that's the way to go.

Interestingly, a couple of weekends ago the four of us went to an outdoor event that was pretty loud. SD13 was loving it but SD11 said it was too loud and wanted to go home early. DH and I validated that we were so glad she could share with us how she felt and we did go home early.

Mom has been out of town for 3 days and got back yesterday. The suspicious side of me wonders if SD11 is getting an attention need met by sharing "attention-worthy" anxieties w/ Mom? The suspicious side also got triggered by "[SD11 not wanting to spend] that time away with only him". Maybe it's just my radar, but that seems like a dig.

Anyway, not sure if this is all a big nothingburger or not, just wanted to get some feedback.

[kells76]

I got an email from the kids' mom last night; she didn't send it to DH.

Hi kells76,
SD11 was talking to me tonight about DH planning to take her camping alone this weekend. She’s not feeling great about it and would like to have a conversation with DH about her feelings but is not feeling confident about how to approach that conversation. She asked if I could sit with her and help her talk to DH about her feelings but I suggested that maybe it would be more helpful if you sat with her instead. She was amiable to this idea so I’m wondering if you could make some time to talk with SD11 and hear her concerns and then support her in sharing them with a DH. She is very eager not to disappoint DH but is also having a lot of big feels around spending that time away with only him.
Thoughts?
~ Mom

I said "Thanks very much for the info; I appreciate it!"

I talked with DH about it and shared that I'm not super excited about the idea of "DH and I together talking with SD11" -- something about that suggestion seems triangle-y. It seems like it'd be better for SD11 to have that talk be just her and DH. I shared with DH that if he could check in with SD11 in a general way before I get home from work that maybe that's the way to go.

Interestingly, a couple of weekends ago the four of us went to an outdoor event that was pretty loud. SD13 was loving it but SD11 said it was too loud and wanted to go home early. DH and I validated that we were so glad she could share with us how she felt and we did go home early.

Mom has been out of town for 3 days and got back yesterday. The suspicious side of me wonders if SD11 is getting an attention need met by sharing "attention-worthy" anxieties w/ Mom? The suspicious side also got triggered by "[SD11 not wanting to spend] that time away with only him". Maybe it's just my radar, but that seems like a dig.

Anyway, not sure if this is all a big nothingburger or not, just wanted to get some feedback.

[worriedStepmom]

That seems like really unnecessary triangulation to me.

I encourage my kids to talk to their dad about stuff.  I don't step in the middle - and I certainly wouldn't enlist the stepmom to jump in the middle either.

[kells76]

I think LnL asked me in another thread about specific interactions and to drill down to what really got me.

This one epitomizes one of the things that bugs me: the posture of "I'm just being a helpful, loving, supportive mom" at the same time as increasing drama (pulling in more players) and triangulating. It has been very confusing to me in the past. I would focus almost on each individual word, as it were, and couldn't "find the problem". "It all sounds so good... so why am I so bothered?"

Not sure if there is a better way to describe the dynamic in this email.

Also interestingly, a couple of weekends ago (same weekend as "loud outdoor event") SD13 was feeling wound up/tense but wasn't sure why. She slept on it and then the next morning talked about how she really didn't want to go play the first soccer game. She'd already wanted to make plans with friends, then got a call from Stepdad the night before, basically saying "Surprise, you're signed up for soccer, you missed the first practice, first game is tomorrow, all your gear is at Mom's and not with you so somehow we'll get it to you".

It was REALLY hard to not go right to "Oh honey, you don't have to play if you truly don't want to". But you're right WSM, it was possible to not bring in Mom or Stepdad into the mix. Not to do the "Do you want to call Mom and tell her you don't want to go?"

So that's another piece that bugs me; that it is possible to not make everything a triangle. Also, I wonder if Mom is teaching the kids a dependent attitude: "You can't talk directly with DH, you're not emotionally ready. How about I do it with you? Or another adult?" Teaching them that they'll "always need mom" (or, third best, kells76), but they DON'T need DH and in fact SHOULD worry about talking with him.

[Panda39]

Yes, to me it is weird to have you there with SD11 so she can tell her dad she doesn't want to go camping.  It's completely unnecessary.  If she wants something she will need to ask for it...she needs to simply talk to her dad.   SD11 needs to learn that she has to ask for things she wants or  say "no" to things she doesn't want or she will end up very unhappy indeed. 

If she totaled her dad's prized 1967 Mustang or something...yes you might want to support her there but I don't think the discussion about camping warrants you being there.

Panda39

[worriedStepmom]

My SD12's mom had a habit of texting us about SD's feelings (she's home alone and scared!  she's nervous about X, Y, Z) and expecting us to do something about it.

Occasionally we'd check in on her  (like you said you might suggest to your H).  For the most part, though, SD was fine, mom was anxious, mom projected her own anxiety onto SD and decided that the reason SD didn't want to talk to us about it was because we weren't emotionally safe...not that SD didn't care enough about mom's anxiety to bring it up.

I would not assume that SD truly has a problem.  But, if she is truly not comfortable talking to her dad, then SD needs a therapist to work through it.  Not mom, not you.  

I have a good coparenting relationship with my ex, and I think it is in large part because we stay in our own lanes.

[kells76]

I would not assume that SD truly has a problem.  But, if she is truly not comfortable talking to her dad, then SD needs a therapist to work through it.  Not mom, not you.

That helps me pinpoint another facet of many communications with Mom that has been confusing. It's what I've heard called the "clown nose on, clown nose off" posture: "This is incredibly serious -- so much so that I'm telling you about it and describing it as big feelings -- but the minute you suggest counseling, I will minimize it and say it's not as big a deal as YOU think".

This happened in the email that Stepdad sent after DH asked why they didn't give us a heads up that SD13 felt like a boy. "Oh, if it were really a big deal, we would've told you... but also, we're using SD13's preferred pronouns".

There's some weird positioning of "Things in the kids' lives are a big deal if and when we say they are, and things can be a big deal and not a big deal at the same time". S11's feelings are big and incredibly important, so much so that... she doesn't need a counselor and is totally fine.

[kells76]

I asked DH how it went with SD11 and he said it was totally not a thing, that she was pretty chill about it.

Mom did however send a cell phone with SD11 this weekend, which hasn't happened before.

Time to take my own advice of "just because Mom say something that sounds true doesn't mean it's true..."