Standing my grounds

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Ubpdh has been out of control before we moved and since then. Alternating between anger and quiet seething. Painted my mother black, going to church (which appears to be a trigger furthermore) and now “demanding his way or highway” in his own words. He is trying to provoke a fight every second. Started off him asking me if I would accompany him to church and how I felt about him going. I remained calm and I’d jot Brit. He kept on asking me on how I felt, so I told him “ do you want me to come with you? If you ask me directive I will consider”. He confessed to wanting me to come, so I agreed. We stepped out with our friends last night, which went pleasantly for me at least. Today he woke up in a foul mood and demanded I withdraw money from a mutual line of credit so he could buy crypto currency that is now fallen on hard times. I did not agree to it, as I don’t see it going to the amount he says it will. We started going to church he he started saying “maybe you shouldn’t go, you have this ugly look on your face”, I was dismayed. I was quietly getting ready when this comment came at me from no where. I felt cheated so I said, you asked me, which he denied, and now that I’m dressed you are telling me not to go?. I proceeded to coming with him. Which was ok, I was waiting for. Miracle, but things actually went much worse. I now understand why I was afraid of him attending. It’s like some trigger switch that goes off if he wants to go there. He came out in the worse mood then before, emotionally assaulting me from the moment we departed from the parking lot. Criticizing me, snapping and passing judgement. Once home he has been avoiding me. He came in into the bedroom, refusing to meet my gaze and greetings. Then demanded we terminate d16 extracurricular education because it’s his way or the highway and that he refuses to allow me to spend time driving her and waiting for her. I calmly replied that he can make choices regarding the house Reno project as he is the one paying for it. When it comes to kids education and my time, we will have to discuss. Which infuriated him, he through his pants against the wall (symbolic violence) and proclaimed that he will be building himself a separate bedroom and Moving there. He said he won’t sleep with me in the near future. I’m so glad I remained calm and told him “I don’t wish for you to move out”, but maintained my boundaries. I feel that I have let him over run me for so Long, that now I almost feel satisfaction.

[snowglobe]

Ubpdh has been out of control before we moved and since then. Alternating between anger and quiet seething. Painted my mother black, going to church (which appears to be a trigger furthermore) and now “demanding his way or highway” in his own words. He is trying to provoke a fight every second. Started off him asking me if I would accompany him to church and how I felt about him going. I remained calm and I’d jot Brit. He kept on asking me on how I felt, so I told him “ do you want me to come with you? If you ask me directive I will consider”. He confessed to wanting me to come, so I agreed. We stepped out with our friends last night, which went pleasantly for me at least. Today he woke up in a foul mood and demanded I withdraw money from a mutual line of credit so he could buy crypto currency that is now fallen on hard times. I did not agree to it, as I don’t see it going to the amount he says it will. We started going to church he he started saying “maybe you shouldn’t go, you have this ugly look on your face”, I was dismayed. I was quietly getting ready when this comment came at me from no where. I felt cheated so I said, you asked me, which he denied, and now that I’m dressed you are telling me not to go?. I proceeded to coming with him. Which was ok, I was waiting for. Miracle, but things actually went much worse. I now understand why I was afraid of him attending. It’s like some trigger switch that goes off if he wants to go there. He came out in the worse mood then before, emotionally assaulting me from the moment we departed from the parking lot. Criticizing me, snapping and passing judgement. Once home he has been avoiding me. He came in into the bedroom, refusing to meet my gaze and greetings. Then demanded we terminate d16 extracurricular education because it’s his way or the highway and that he refuses to allow me to spend time driving her and waiting for her. I calmly replied that he can make choices regarding the house Reno project as he is the one paying for it. When it comes to kids education and my time, we will have to discuss. Which infuriated him, he through his pants against the wall (symbolic violence) and proclaimed that he will be building himself a separate bedroom and Moving there. He said he won’t sleep with me in the near future. I’m so glad I remained calm and told him “I don’t wish for you to move out”, but maintained my boundaries. I feel that I have let him over run me for so Long, that now I almost feel satisfaction.

[Notwendy]

Good for you! Remaining calm when he is not calm is a good step. It's about boundaries. His feelings are his, yours are yours. He can be out of control, but it doesn't mean you need to be out of control too.


When you start to change your responses, it isn't unusual for the other person to escalate temporarily. After all- he is doing what has worked for him - threaten to cut off expenses, threaten to sleep in the other room. This works for him, because then you act on your fears and ramp up your attention to him.  People can get addicted to the drama between them. He likes it when you are focused on him and he knows how to get it. Your part is to grow emotionally so these behaviors don't work as well and you don't reinforce them.

These behaviors aren't new. They are his usual ones. However, these are his tools that have been working. If you've been using a "hammer" all these years, you would keep using it until you figured out it doesn't work.

A miracle would be nice, but don't count on this- if it was that common, we'd all be in easier relationships. We have been given information and a path to grow emotionally - and staying focused on your goals. not your H's mood swings will hopefully get you to a better place emotionally.

There's a saying " you've been invited to the crazy party but you don't have to attend". The two of you have been engaging in a pattern between the two of you. He acts up, you get scared and soothe him. He then gets the attention he likes. It seems he likes a lot of attention and knows how to stir it up.

He picks on your religion. Tweaks you by going to church - asking you to join him. Well, he can go to church if he wants to, and you can go with him, or not. I don't think it's a good idea to mind read, but he may have been picking a fight when he asked you to go. Anger can be addictive. If he blows up., it blows off steam for him. Maybe if you said no he would have gone into a rage. You said yes, so he kept on picking- because maybe he wanted the drama- invite to the crazy party?

Well, that didn't work, so the next try is to leave the bedroom. And you stayed calm.

This isn't about him though - it's about you and recognizing the pattern and the things he says/does to get you to participate will help you to stay calm.

Keep in mind, he's a separate human being with a mind of his own. He can make choices. He can go to church, he can sleep in another room. Your job is to stay calm- don't let it trigger your fears. Neither of these things are catastrophes.

If he were to cut off your D's extracurricular activities- well then let him own that, let him face her. While your job is to protect your children from harm, this is an issue between him and her. If he were to do that, she would be disappointed. Let him deal with that. My guess is that he wants to look good to her and that he wouldn't do that if it were between the two of them. This is how he tweaks you. And it he did cut her off- he can do that if he wants- whether or not you get involved. This would be hurtful but not illegal or physically harmful to her- step out of this argument.

Maybe you haven't been responding to the drama as much. This reminds me of when a little kid chooses to act up- they act up as soon as their mom gets an important phone call. That's exactly the time the child chooses to smack their sibling, or yell for mom. Why- because mom isn't paying attention to them!

But you know that with child behavior, you can't just not pay attention to the unwanted behavior. You have to pay attention to the good behavior too. So think about when your H is behaving in a kind or respectful manner. Maybe it isn't often, but he must be sometime. That's the behavior you give attention to. "thank you for paying for D to participate in her activity". "I think it's wonderful that you took S to the movies" or whatever it is. And stay calm during tantrums.

[snowglobe]

Good for you! Remaining calm when he is not calm is a good step. It's about boundaries. His feelings are his, yours are yours. He can be out of control, but it doesn't mean you need to be out of control too.


When you start to change your responses, it isn't unusual for the other person to escalate temporarily. After all- he is doing what has worked for him - threaten to cut off expenses, threaten to sleep in the other room. This works for him, because then you act on your fears and ramp up your attention to him.  People can get addicted to the drama between them. He likes it when you are focused on him and he knows how to get it. Your part is to grow emotionally so these behaviors don't work as well and you don't reinforce them.

These behaviors aren't new. They are his usual ones. However, these are his tools that have been working. If you've been using a "hammer" all these years, you would keep using it until you figured out it doesn't work.

A miracle would be nice, but don't count on this- if it was that common, we'd all be in easier relationships. We have been given information and a path to grow emotionally - and staying focused on your goals. not your H's mood swings will hopefully get you to a better place emotionally.

There's a saying " you've been invited to the crazy party but you don't have to attend". The two of you have been engaging in a pattern between the two of you. He acts up, you get scared and soothe him. He then gets the attention he likes. It seems he likes a lot of attention and knows how to stir it up.

He picks on your religion. Tweaks you by going to church - asking you to join him. Well, he can go to church if he wants to, and you can go with him, or not. I don't think it's a good idea to mind read, but he may have been picking a fight when he asked you to go. Anger can be addictive. If he blows up., it blows off steam for him. Maybe if you said no he would have gone into a rage. You said yes, so he kept on picking- because maybe he wanted the drama- invite to the crazy party?

Well, that didn't work, so the next try is to leave the bedroom. And you stayed calm.

This isn't about him though - it's about you and recognizing the pattern and the things he says/does to get you to participate will help you to stay calm.

Keep in mind, he's a separate human being with a mind of his own. He can make choices. He can go to church, he can sleep in another room. Your job is to stay calm- don't let it trigger your fears. Neither of these things are catastrophes.

If he were to cut off your D's extracurricular activities- well then let him own that, let him face her. While your job is to protect your children from harm, this is an issue between him and her. If he were to do that, she would be disappointed. Let him deal with that. My guess is that he wants to look good to her and that he wouldn't do that if it were between the two of them. This is how he tweaks you. And it he did cut her off- he can do that if he wants- whether or not you get involved. This would be hurtful but not illegal or physically harmful to her- step out of this argument.

Maybe you haven't been responding to the drama as much. This reminds me of when a little kid chooses to act up- they act up as soon as their mom gets an important phone call. That's exactly the time the child chooses to smack their sibling, or yell for mom. Why- because mom isn't paying attention to them!

But you know that with child behavior, you can't just not pay attention to the unwanted behavior. You have to pay attention to the good behavior too. So think about when your H is behaving in a kind or respectful manner. Maybe it isn't often, but he must be sometime. That's the behavior you give attention to. "thank you for paying for D to participate in her activity". "I think it's wonderful that you took S to the movies" or whatever it is. And stay calm during tantrums.

Wendy, thank you for checking in. The issue with this extra curricular activity is that d16 no longer wants to do it on the weekend. Instead she would rather spend time sleeping or hanging out with her friends. This activity is highly important for her university admission and  I refuse as a parent to listen to a teenager and emotionally disturbed other parent. She spoke to him in the car, seeing the way he is and manipulated him to get angry. He came home and gave me an ultimatum. This activity kept her afloat academically and it’s very unwise to terminate it less then two years before university attendance.

[Notwendy]

I agree with you, but also, you can not control your H. He will do what he will do and if he's paying for it, he can stop.

I understand your wanting to protect your children, and also to not give in to a teenager's whim.

Yet, she is going to be a college student very soon, and if she isn't intrinsically motivated to pursue an interest, she won't do it.

While it is important to protect and encourage our kids, they also need to take responsibility and face consequences as they get older. If she understands that quitting this activity might impact her acceptance to a college she wants - and she quits- and does not get accepted- this is a tough lesson to learn.

College acceptance to top colleges is competitive- there is no guarantee. However, if she wants a chance, she needs to be the one who works at it.

I think Canada colleges are more affordable than in the US,  but top colleges are also expensive. The top ones award need based scholarships but your family won't qualify. So Dad would have to foot the college bill and this could lead to more control issues on his part.

If this is a sport, then she might get an athletic scholarship- but she's the one who has to be motivated to practice, play, while keeping her grades up. This takes a lot of motivation on the part of the student.

Not getting into a top college is not a catastrophe. College is what a student makes of it. A motivated college student at a low cost community or state college can do better in school and succeed than an unmotivated student at any school.


What I am concerned about with your kids is the conflict and chaos they are living with.

I get where your D is coming from. At her age, my friends were the world to me. They cared about me and they were consistent, compared to the situation in my house. Fortunately, BPD mom didn't give a hoot where I went to college. It was the golden child who was pressured to attend a high profile one. Guess who did better in college academically and got a better job? Me- and not to compare, the golden child is very intelligent. It's because I was allowed to choose my college-among the lower cost state schools-and had to help pay for it- I knew it was my best chance to become independent and not be under BPD mom's control.  Golden child had to attend the college BPD mom picked, and so it wasn't the GC's choice and it was a poor fit.  I don't know what your D's goals are and I agree it isn't about following her whims but she also has to be motivated and feel that she was part of the college decision.

But I too wanted to hang out with my friends more- because it was my friends who gave me the attention and love I needed. This is both a good thing and not a good thing. Teen agers aren't supposed to replace parenting, but I took the attention where I could get it.

By focusing on you, your education, you can set an example for her on how she can take care of herself.

[snowglobe]

I agree with you, but also, you can not control your H. He will do what he will do and if he's paying for it, he can stop.

I understand your wanting to protect your children, and also to not give in to a teenager's whim.

Yet, she is going to be a college student very soon, and if she isn't intrinsically motivated to pursue an interest, she won't do it.

While it is important to protect and encourage our kids, they also need to take responsibility and face consequences as they get older. If she understands that quitting this activity might impact her acceptance to a college she wants - and she quits- and does not get accepted- this is a tough lesson to learn.

College acceptance to top colleges is competitive- there is no guarantee. However, if she wants a chance, she needs to be the one who works at it.

I may be wrong, but my guess is that along with where you live and the high status lifestyle- the focus is on the prestigious colleges. I think Canada colleges are more affordable than in the US,  but top colleges are also expensive. The top ones award need based scholarships but your family won't qualify. So Dad would have to foot the college bill and this could lead to more control issues on his part.

If this is a sport, then she might get an athletic scholarship- but she's the one who has to be motivated to practice, play, while keeping her grades up. This takes a lot of motivation on the part of the student.

Not getting into a top college is not a catastrophe. It may be a social embarrassment issue if she's part of a high profile crowd. However, college is what a student makes of it. A motivated college at a low cost community or state college can do better in school and succeed than an unmotivated student at any school.

I think it might help to realize that a lot of what you get into conflict with with your H is not catastrophic. You did not end up homeless when he sold the house. He didn't take the money and run off to another country.

What I am concerned about with your kids is the conflict and chaos they are living with. This, IMHO, is more of an issue with their well being than the size of the house, the brand of their clothing, the type of car they drive, and the name of the college they attend.

I get where your D is coming from. At her age, my friends were the world to me. They cared about me and they were consistent, compared to the situation in my house. Fortunately, BPD mom didn't give a hoot where I went to college. It was the golden child who was pressured to attend a high profile one. Guess who did better in college academically and got a better job? Me- and not to compare, the golden child is very intelligent. It's because I got to choose my college and had to help pay for it- I knew it was my best chance to become independent and not be under BPD mom's control.  Golden child had to attend the college BPD mom picked, and so it wasn't the GC's choice and it was a poor fit.

But I too wanted to hang out with my friends more- because it was my friends who gave me the attention and love I needed. This is both a good thing and not a good thing. Teen agers aren't supposed to replace parenting, but I took the attention where I could get it.

By focusing on you, your education, you can set an example for her on how she can take care of herself.

Wendy,
Your compassion and understanding helps me to put things in perspective. I live under a constant threat of the rug being pulled under me. He can change his ways in a snap of the finger, he is completely and utterly unpredictable. I make my top priority my children’s education. I make it an urgent matter that tops over anything else, even tangibles. Why? Because tomorrow they might not have an access to that. The reason why she is so academically successful is that I stayed consistent and persistent despite ubpdh’s dysregulations.  This extra curricular is paramount in terms of the importance, in the face of constant state of chaos it affords her the individual support she needs. Without it, and believe me, I tried over last month of not attending, her grades fall behind. Not because she is a bad student. But because no one can remain stoic and study hard when her father’s behaviour is emotionally abusive 80% of the time. Wendy, I think not making a decision such as not leaving is a big decision. For me at least. I think when it comes to children I don’t want to gamble. Me being here with them soften the blow and the abuse. Ubpdh is unpredictable and unmanageable, even for an adult, let alone got the child. I need two more years for my d16 to go to university. Having only one minor, I will take my chances with court. Reading up on that, if I drag it out for another couple of years my other child will be older. I can’t leave them with this man or his family.

[formflier]

How is your safety plan going?  It appeared things were going in a positive direction in your other thread.

Wouldn't finishing up a safety plan be a better use of your time than trying to "time", "influence" or "control" the changing thoughts and "life plans" of a teenager and a disordered husband?

Best,

FF

[snowglobe]

How is your safety plan going?  It appeared things were going in a positive direction in your other thread.

Wouldn't finishing up a safety plan be a better use of your time than trying to "time", "influence" or "control" the changing thoughts and "life plans" of a teenager and a disordered husband?

Best,

FFg

Thank you for redirecting me Ff,  I will get back to that thread