Marriage Counseling Slump

[Depression = 72% of members]

Hello all! I normally post on the PSI  board as my BPD person is my MIL. My H, her son, has many learned BPD traits and an enmeshed relationship with his mom, so I'm thinking this is the best place to pose my questions about marriage counseling.

4 months ago his mom and I got into a firm and open conversation about her moving in with us. He exploded at me, uncharacteristically yelling at me for two hours. I understand now that he was terrified of making his mom angry or losing his enmeshed connection to her. Interactions since have unveiled a side of him that I'd never seen in our 6 years of marriage. I'm hurting, but I'm working hard to untangle and address my own emotions and learn what I can do to be part of the solution.

MC told me in our first individual session that she suspects his mom has BPD. She will not suggest it to him as she needs to first see that he wants to know. She has also told me individually that if she pushes, he may not come back. He is very defensive of his mother, refusing to admit she carries any responsibility. I trust the MC's decision, and I will not bring it up with him either until she thinks he is ready.  She is intentional about validating and affirming him, slipping in language about setting boundaries with his mom now and again.

Today's session with the MC really left me in a slump. I'm aware that her role is not to take sides, but to validate both with the goal of improving our communication between us and improving our relationship with each other. He shared that he's working hard and feeling underappreciated so today was just a happy affirmation of his recent ability to schedule something with me first instead of his mom.

I get it, and I am thankful, I really am. I'm also carrying a heavy load he knows nothing about. I'm happy to show appreciation for his progress, childishly resentful I don't get applause for the hard work I'm doing, and I know it's impossible to share any of this with him. Any sharing of feelings on my part would add fuel to the fire and cause damage, so I'll continue to self-soothe and take care of myself, and seek healthy support.

He loves me and wants to work this out, which means a lot. His progress is slow, to be expected when someone has been conditioned to caretake his BPD mother. My heart is aching and I understand it is my responsibility to manage my overwhelming feelings. It feels like I'm grieving the loss of a loving, trusting, mutually supportive relationship. I miss him.

I could really use some encouragement today.

pj

[pursuingJoy]

Hello all! I normally post on the PSI  board as my BPD person is my MIL. My H, her son, has many learned BPD traits and an enmeshed relationship with his mom, so I'm thinking this is the best place to pose my questions about marriage counseling.

4 months ago his mom and I got into a firm and open conversation about her moving in with us. He exploded at me, uncharacteristically yelling at me for two hours. I understand now that he was terrified of making his mom angry or losing his enmeshed connection to her. Interactions since have unveiled a side of him that I'd never seen in our 6 years of marriage. I'm hurting, but I'm working hard to untangle and address my own emotions and learn what I can do to be part of the solution.

MC told me in our first individual session that she suspects his mom has BPD. She will not suggest it to him as she needs to first see that he wants to know. She has also told me individually that if she pushes, he may not come back. He is very defensive of his mother, refusing to admit she carries any responsibility. I trust the MC's decision, and I will not bring it up with him either until she thinks he is ready.  She is intentional about validating and affirming him, slipping in language about setting boundaries with his mom now and again.

Today's session with the MC really left me in a slump. I'm aware that her role is not to take sides, but to validate both with the goal of improving our communication between us and improving our relationship with each other. He shared that he's working hard and feeling underappreciated so today was just a happy affirmation of his recent ability to schedule something with me first instead of his mom.

I get it, and I am thankful, I really am. I'm also carrying a heavy load he knows nothing about. I'm happy to show appreciation for his progress, childishly resentful I don't get applause for the hard work I'm doing, and I know it's impossible to share any of this with him. Any sharing of feelings on my part would add fuel to the fire and cause damage, so I'll continue to self-soothe and take care of myself, and seek healthy support.

He loves me and wants to work this out, which means a lot. His progress is slow, to be expected when someone has been conditioned to caretake his BPD mother. My heart is aching and I understand it is my responsibility to manage my overwhelming feelings. It feels like I'm grieving the loss of a loving, trusting, mutually supportive relationship. I miss him.

I could really use some encouragement today.

pj

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[I Am Redeemed]

Hi PJ,

I'm sorry you are feeling discouraged. It must be very frustrating to see a snail's pace when you really want to see results, or at least the hope of them, right now. It's also a heavy load to carry emotionally by yourself without the support from the one person you *should* be able to lean on when you need to.

A very wise older woman that I once knew told me that "Sometimes you have to take the long way to get to the road you want to travel".

I took that to mean that there were some things I might have to go through and endure in order to eventually get to the place that I imagined was the right direction. Sometimes, the direction to the right direction is a roundabout way. Does that make sense?

I know you know it will likely take a lot of chipping away at the conditioning your h has undergone for years. That's hardly comfort when you are feeling lonely in your own marriage, but at least he is showing up and sharing. That's something. In the meantime, keep sharing with us. We are listening and we care about you. 

[pursuingJoy]

Thanks I Am Redeemed, I needed to hear that.

A very wise older woman that I once knew told me that "Sometimes you have to take the long way to get to the road you want to travel".

I took that to mean that there were some things I might have to go through and endure in order to eventually get to the place that I imagined was the right direction. Sometimes, the direction to the right direction is a roundabout way.

This makes sense, thanks for sharing. It is so true.

In the meantime, I want to make sure I'm not closing off my heart too much or allowing resentment to take over longterm. Is it enough, do you think, to just watch over or should I do something differently?

I dont feel close to him. He interprets my depression/sadness as disapproval (which he probably links to his mom's disapproval). I've tried to share that I'm sad and working through it but to him, it's an automatic link to disapproval of him, probably because of his conditioning.

We both struggle with codependence...that's evident to me, at least. Yesterday in MC I suggested that might be something we could both work on. MC said no, she didn't see any codependence. I'm not the professional, maybe she doesnt want to go there, so i dropped it and we just celebrated baby steps. 

I'm so thankful for this board.

pj

[pursuingJoy]

Realizing that his need to celebrate baby steps creates fear in me. He has an attitude of "look at all I've done for you."

I, on the other hand, don't feel comfortable with him doing this for me. That won't create lasting change. I also see how far we need to go. I appreciate a step but I see it as just that, one step out of many. I get the sense that he feels I owe him now and I'm pretty concerned that he's not going to go any further.

pj

[I Am Redeemed]

Do you ever get to see the MC individually, or is it always together?

Is his sense of entitlement because of going to counseling or because of the birthday dinner which was centered around your family instead of your MIL?

I can see how you would worry that he is doing this for you to satisfy you so you might back off of him rather than to generate lasting change in the relationship. Does he still view the issue as the conflict between you and MIL instead of how you two communicate and work to ensure both marriage partners are getting their needs fulfilled?

It sounds like he has an avoidant approach to conflict, which can create anxiety when confronted. You sound like you have more of an integrative approach which works to find a solution that benefits both parties.

Has he said to you that he interprets your sadness as disapproval? Sometimes justifying or explaining ourselves can be invalidating when someone expresses how our behavior makes them feel, even if their perception is incorrect.

[pursuingJoy]

I Am Redeemed you've read through my other threads! These questions are specific and helpful, thank you!

Do you ever get to see the MC individually, or is it always together?

More often together but we have each seen her 3-4 times individually in the last 5 months. Insurance will cover one session a week. He makes sure that if he sees her individually, I also see her individually. I love seeing her, I need the time to vent and get my head straight. I think in his mind, if he sees her individually he's the one with the problem. I am hopeful that the MC has been validating enough to start shifting his defensive perspective.

Is his sense of entitlement because of going to counseling or because of the birthday dinner which was centered around your family instead of your MIL?

Both. From comments he's made at home and in MC, he deems participation in counseling as the greater sacrifice, while boundaries (planning the birthday, for example) with his mom is more of a pointless, temporary hoop he's jumping through to make me happy.

I will give him credit: he said in our most recent session that his need to reach out to his mom in emergencies, like needed car repairs, was 'weird.' He's 44, with a good job and supportive wife and friends. His mom is elderly and two hours away. His truck recently broke down again and I can see him wrestling with what it means to manage this without her. I let him know I'm there but I also try to affirm that he can manage it on his own. For the first time in 7 years, he didn't get his mom to cover an expensive car issue.

I can see how you would worry that he is doing this for you to satisfy you so you might back off of him rather than to generate lasting change in the relationship. Does he still view the issue as the conflict between you and MIL instead of how you two communicate and work to ensure both marriage partners are getting their needs fulfilled?

Without fail, in every single MC appt, he says, "Ugh. I just know that if mom was sitting in here and the two of you would just talk, all of this would go away." I don't argue, but I reply that she is always invited to join us, and we've extended that invitation to her (she declined). I also say at least once in every session that my goal is to work on our communication skills, that this is about the health and wellness of our marriage. As of the last session, we could both clearly see that our reasons for coming to MC, and our perspectives of the problem, were completely different.

Has he said to you that he interprets your sadness as disapproval? Sometimes justifying or explaining ourselves can be invalidating when someone expresses how our behavior makes them feel, even if their perception is incorrect.

Youre absolutely right. When he makes statements like, "I do everything you ask and you're still not happy," I share that i appreciate the steps he's taken and I try to be specific so that he understands I see his efforts. I can see, though, how it might be invalidating when I venture into saying that it's not just about coming to a counseling appt, its about our commitment to personal growth, changing unhealthy behaviors, and protecting our marriage, ie the action steps resulting from MC.

Thank you for being there, IAR. It means lot.

pj

[GaGrl]

Pj, as I've watch your recent journey, the action I see as most effective is letting your husband experience and handle whatever comes up on his own. It seems he acquires a bit more insight each time this happens. The car situation is a good example. When no one is there to rescue him -- neither his mother nor you -- he has the opportunity to sit with his emotions, and I believe he really is thinking about why he feels as he does.  Another example was his reluctance to leave his mother's house after the birthday dinner -- he was conflicted about leaving, but he had the space to think about why he felt conflicted.

The more he has to deal with decisions around his mother -- while you give him space to do so -- the more insight he will develop around what is "weird."

 It's just going to be sloowwwww...

[Dnmtnbkr]

Hey PJ,  well I and the rest of the community applaud you. It is a thankless job, and I'm sorry your partner doesn't see this. But from your threads it sounds like you are doing great, seeking help and doing your best on the journey of yours.

I had a tough one the other night, My uBPD wife said that she is tired of putting in 150% to our marriage and I put in nothing. I bit my tongue, and remembered not to JADE, URGH! so hard. The only thing I could validate was by me saying, "I appreciate you working so hard for us."

Keep sharing, stay strong and enjoy you.

[pursuingJoy]

Really good insight GaGrl! You are so right about that pattern. I'll chew on that some more. It def seems there is a great deal of value and effectiveness in giving him space to process in his time and way.

I am currently stuck and confused as to how to present that we have something to work on. Everyone, from H and MIL, people here and the therapist send me the message that I'm doing it wrong. I'm too condescending, trying to control, too emotional, explaining too much. Calm suggestions, on the other hand, are ineffective and immediately dismissed by him.

So I try not to ask him for anything, instead focusing on me setting boundaries with her. If that makes him uncomfortable, that's his discomfort to navigate.

Im also aware that my feeling indecisive and frozen is victim-like.

Its weird but his mom completely changed the rules of engagement and its disconcerting. Trying to find a new normal.

I'm written off by H and MIL as "just insecure, a result of my dysfunctional family." I don't think it's her intent, but I feel their perspective is enforced in MC because our conversation is so focused on validating his feelings. I suggested reading a book about communication, and they both looked at me funny and kind of laughed and said, "uh, okaaayyy." That was a weird moment. Reading a book together doesn't seem like a stretch. The T recommended a book, but I won't pursue it unless he shows interest. And of course I way overthink stupid things like that.

I don't talk to him at all about any of this outside MC. In MC, our conversations feel very surfacey and go at a pace that's comfortable for him. I get the need for this, I do...I'm also ready to tear my hair out at this sloow pace lololol

I had a tough one the other night, My uBPD wife said that she is tired of putting in 150% to our marriage and I put in nothing. I bit my tongue, and remembered not to JADE, URGH! so hard. The only thing I could validate was by me saying, "I appreciate you working so hard for us."

Keep sharing, stay strong and enjoy you.

You definitely get it and you set a great example. I hate that you're dealing with the same thing but I cant tell you what it means to know that that I'm not alone in this, Dnmtnbkr! If you can do it maybe I can too.

I need to know I'm not alone, that there's hope, and I need to hear from the wise ones who are walking/have walked this road. You're all an incredibly stabilizing force for me, and you're playing a significant role in saving my marriage. Thank you for that.

pj

[pursuingJoy]

Hey PJ,  well I and the rest of the community applaud you. It is a thankless job, and I'm sorry your partner doesn't see this. But from your threads it sounds like you are doing great, seeking help and doing your best on the journey of yours.

Also, I super needed this positive affirmation. Thank you, D.

pj

[FaithHopeLove]

Hi PJ
I join the others in cheering you on. You said you would like to hear from others who have been through similar struggles so here goes. My husband and I have been through a ton of ups and downs in our 30 year marriage. There have been times when I thought there was no hope and divorce was inevitable. It's funny but when I look back I can't identify any one thing as The Issue just a strong feeling of frustration at not being able to communicate or connect. He was the one who suggested (insisted really) on MC. It was a sloowwwww process even painful at times but we stuck with it and bit by bit things did get better. I can now honestly say I love him more than I ever have before and he feels the same way about me. The biggest challenge in our life right now is our BPD son but we are united as a couple in facing it. So my advice is really simple. Don't give up. I sense that deep down you and your H really love each other. Of course it is tough having a BPD mother/ MIL. That is bound to put a strain on any marriage. But the fact that your H goes to MC with you and recognizes the need for change is a huge positive sign. You might not see a lot of progress yet. Changing lifelong habits takes a lot of time and waiting for a painful situation to change can be terribly frustrating. But I am a witness. When both people want it, as you and your H obviously do, a marriage can improve radically and become a source of deep joy. So hang in there. The hard work you are doing will not be in vain.
Hugs
Faith

[pursuingJoy]

Faith thank you! I need to hear that other marriages have survived, and how. Thank you for being here.

And congratulations on 30 years - truly an accomplishment I hope to achieve!

pj