First Post and I feel lost

[strugglingBF]

Quick background: I have been dating my GF (who I suspect has BPD but am not certain).  I love her very much, regardless of all the hateful things she has said to me and done to me over the last 5 years of dating her.  Why?...I have no idea.  I guess I have always suspected that some of her actions might be out of her own control because they are so outrageous.  I swear there are times I can see in her eyes that she is almost scared while she is acting out.  I could be crazy though.  We have been dating 5 years and I would bet that we rarely go 1 week without some kind of large dramatic fight; many weeks we have multiple.  The smallest things can trigger them.  We each have 2 kids from each having a previous marriage.  My kids are 13 (boy) and 11 (girl).  Her kids are 20 (girl, who I suspect may have BPD as well) and 18 (boy).  We attempted to blend our houses a few years ago, but a recent event where her daughter was angry at me for asking her to be more respectful (she returned a dish to the house with cigar wrappers and weed stems and seeds in it) turned very bad.  Before I go further, her daughter is a very disrespectful person to me and her mother who requires constant parenting.  Drugs, sneaking boys into our house for sex, sneaking out to meet boys and do drugs almost nightly at times we lived together.  All while we are trying to parent 3 other kids in the house.  Anyway, I text her daughter to be more respectful and not return dishes with her discarded blunt rolling items.  She came back to the house in a rage.  This is an event where I stayed calm (can't say that about all of them).  She confronted me in my kitchen while my son was eating dinner.  I calmly asked her to leave the house many times, and each time she grew more angry.  So angry that she threw a large bottle full of dawn dishsoap as hard as she could at my unsuspecting son who was sitting at our kitchen bar literally 3 feet from her.  It hit him behind the ear.  An this is the event that put us in separate houses again.  My GF of course blames the entire incident on me because if I don't send the text to be more respectful, none of this happens...REALLY?  This is the type of crazy mindset that makes me feel constantly unsettled in my life.  No ownership and distorted view of reality.  BTW, if this incident comes up she will never admit that any of that incident was her daughter's fault.  I ended up pressing assault charges on her daughter because this is the not the first time she attempted to hurt people in the house.  She has thrown a cellphone at my daughters head before, narrowly missing.  She has thrown multiple items at me over the years and caused destruction to my house in many different incidents.  Hence, why i suspect I am dealing with two BPD people (my GF and her daughter).  Imagine the strain on a relationship when your BF is pressing charges on your daughter for assault.  I was conflicted on it and I sought guidance from a therapist that encouraged me to press charges as well.  Keep in mind I am putting my kids in compromising positions by simply allowing this 20 year old to live with me.  There is a whole element to this where I needed to show my ex wife that I was taking appropriate actions to protect our kids as well.  This is the kind of thing that can lose me 50/50 custody.  It was an extremely difficult and stressful time.  That all happened about a year ago, and we have been living is separate houses since April.   

I will give you a little background on my GF's personality.

She is very witty.  When things are good they are great with her.  She is bubbly, beautiful, vibrant and full of life.  Things that seriously attract me and keep me in the relationship.  She needs to be liked by all people, and she feels very unsettled if she thinks anyone might dislike her...even if that person plays absolutely no role in her everyday life.  She is very combative...I find her getting in Facebook arguments all the time that we both know are pointless, a waste of time, and we go no where.  She will take opposing positions, even if it is not something she believes in, almost as if she is addicted to conflict.  She contradicts herself constantly...her actions do not match her preaching.  I could go on and on with examples of this.  She is controlling...I could go on and on about this one.  She wants to control all my decisions with my kids and my dealing with my ex-wife.

I am on edge all the time.  Almost every decision I make in my day I worry about her reaction.  Right down to whether or not I want to stop someplace to run an errand after being out of town for work (I travel a couple days a week for my job).  Something like stopping at Target without telling her or inviting her will set her off.  Just last week we had a plan to meet at a local store to pick up race packets for a 5k we were running together.  I beat her to that side of town on my way back from a business appointment.  When she found out I was almost there and she hadn't left her house yet, she lit into me.  I told her no problem, I will find something to do while I wait for you.  Her response was how dare you make me feel uncomfortable (because now she was making me wait).  Even after I told her it is no big deal because I could make a couple phone call for work while I wait.  I even told her to take her time (eggshells) so she didn't get on me for rushing her.  That just made her more mad and she was screaming at me on the phone. 

I could literally type her for a few days straight with other examples, but I don't know how much I should ramble on here.  There are some major incidents that I would like to eventually vent about because they had the potential to be life-altering.  Those are the ones that scare me to death.   They usually involve alcohol, at least our worst events do.  Alcohol is another topic altogether.  She doesn't necessarily need it like I would consider an alcoholic.  However, once she starts she doesn't know when to stop.  And when you throw alcohol on top of her already unstable demeanor it is like pouring a gallon of fuel on it.  It makes it much easier to ignite.  She has a shorter fuse, which is already pretty short.

We have sought counseling together, but counseling makes her uncomfortable (she is terrible with feelings).  It is like she starts seeing who she is and she will stop going when it gets uncomfortable.  It is the strangest thing.  She is currently at a point she won't go back (more on that in a minute).  I keep encouraging couples counseling and she resists.  Now, the last counselor we were seeing together because my single counselor because my GF stopped going right after the incident with my son and her daughter.  We have probably had 15 sessions with this therapist over the years.  She knew us pretty well and our dynamic.  When I started going by myself, she started talking about BPD immediately.  Giving me info and books to read.  She did not diagnose my GF as she could not do that without working with her specifically, but she had a VERY strong hunch that is what I am dealing with from all the stories I shared with her, as well as our sessions where we went together.  My GF one day found one of the books my therapist gave me to read (stop walking on eggshells) an became very defensive and accusing me of having BPD.  She did online research and started trying to diagnose me with it.  So she is already about as on edge as you can be about the subject.  I do not bring it up...EVER.  She became so enraged with my personal therapy sessions she constantly told me she would break up with me if I saw that therapist one more time.  She dug into my therapists life and found out she is single/divorced and accused her of wanting to get in my pants and trying to break me and GF up by using BPD to make it happen.  My therapist was nothing but professional, never hit on me, never encouraged me to leave my Gf.  She was simply educating me on what she thought I was dealing with.  My GF dug up more on her life and found out the therapist had a son that overdosed and passed away.  She used that to discredit her ability to be counseling others.  She accused me of being attracted to the therapist.  She dug up pictures of her online and would literally send me pictures of her dozens of texts in a row and say "you are choosing this over me".  ONe night she would stop sending me a picture of my therapist for about an hour straight.  I eventually stopped going to that therapist because of the turmoil it caused in my life with my GF.  She was soo stressed every time I went to an appoint.  She would threaten to break up with me each time.  She would riddle me with questions about each session, and I would lie about what we talked about because many times it was about coping with BPD.

Internally I have a struggle.  Now that I suspect she has BPD, it almost allows me to make excuses for all of her behavior.  Where is the line between making excuses and enough is enough.  That hard thing about BPD is it seems to give another human being the right to treat you like PLEASE READ if you decide to continue being with that person.  Soo difficult...how do you now turn you back on someone you love when you find out the reasons that treat you that way are not their fault.  I don't want to live my life on eggshells, or worrying about every decision I make.  Will the stress over everyday life with this person take its toll on my health?  These are all questions I wrestle with.  If I were to eventually move on, I know that she will repeat the cycle of her actions with someone else just as she did before me.  If you heard the stuff that has come out of her mouth over the years, you would wonder why I want to be with anyone that thinks or says those things.  But for some reason I still love her.  I am starting to see her as a more fragile person, which again makes it even harder to ever turn my back on her if I ever decide to.  Would I be giving up on a person I love?..another question that I think about.  How about this one...am I doing more damage to myself and my kids by staying with her.  Her behaviors effect them as well. 

Am I being judgmental for even assuming she has BPD without a professional diagnosis?  If find it hard to believe someone can be as cruel and mean as she can be without something else at play.

I will stop here for now.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Ozzie101]

Hi and welcome, struggling!

It sounds like you have a lot on your plate and are dealing with a lot -- protecting your children, navigating your relationship and her moods, etc.

So much of what you write is familiar to me and, I'm sure, to others here. Wondering how and why we still love this person. Drawn in by the good times. The combativeness. The walking on eggshells. It's exhausting to live that way. Luckily, there are tools that can help make things better -- or at least stop making them worse. We can share if you're interested.

You stopped going to one therapist because it upset your GF. Are you seeing someone else? It's very common for pwBPD to feel threatened by their loved ones seeing a therapist. My H doesn't like my going, really, and gets anxious whenever I go. He suspects I'm not telling him everything we talk about (and he's right -- he has no idea I suspect he has BPD) and that increases his anxiety. Ultimately, at the root of it, I think he's afraid my therapist will convince me to leave him. But I also know that seeing someone is very important for my own mental health. I've made it clear to him that I love him. A therapist will not be able to convince me to leave -- and a good one wouldn't try. I'm not going anywhere. But I'm seeing her because it helps me and, therefore, us. Letting your GF dictate whether or not you see someone is not a good precedent to set. I completely get where you're coming from. It's just so difficult to deal with the side effects. But for me, it became a boundary issue (https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries).

We can't tell you whether to leave or stay. Only you can decide that. But we can help you walk and talk through it. Whether to stay or go -- a lot of what you say sounds like FOG (Fear Obligation Guilt) at play. I know those thoughts and feelings well and they're hard to shake.

Am I being judgmental for even assuming she has BPD without a professional diagnosis?  If find it hard to believe someone can be as cruel and mean as she can be without something else at play.

Not judgmental at all. You'll find that many members here (including yours truly) have a loved one with no diagnosis. Does my H have BPD? Maybe. I don't know. But the fact is, he (and your GF) has behaviors and thought patterns that are similar to BPD. That means the tools and community here can help.

Something I'm still working on is separating what's his from what's mine. His actions, his thoughts, his behaviors, those are on him. I can't take responsibility for them. He will do what he will do and I will do what I feel is right. You don't have to let her treat you badly. Could you share a recent incident -- with an "I said/she said" play-by-play? That will help us get an even better grip on the dynamics and may be able to point out some things you can try.

[strugglingBF]

I am in the process of trying to find another therapist, but I want someone with BPD experience to make it most beneficial.  But I need to make it look more random to my GF because if she knows that is a factor I am considering she will be angry and unreasonable.  Any help finding someone with this type of specialty would be much appreciated.

As far as an example goes, there are so many.  So many that is hard to quote exact words.  I find myself not being able to accurately account many of our conversations.  To be honest, I don't know if that is because I can't remember or my GF convinces me through aggressive tactics that my account is wrong.  Living with someone like this really can distort your memories of events.  She likes to manipulate words from past arguments, and quite frankly she will go further than me in defending her side so I usually back off and go with her account. 

So last weekend we attended a college football game.  We went a few hours early to tailgate.  She was supposed to be at my house so we could leave together as my house is in the direction of the game from her house.  When she was running late, she blamed me for not coming to pick her up because she is habitually late for everything and i should have known that.  She is, in fact, late for just about everything she attends.  So that day started out on the wrong foot because i didn't make the decision to go pick her up when I knew I would be ready before her.  I have made a similar decision to pick her up in other cases in the past.  I don't know why I didn't on this morning.  Maybe because I was trying to make sure we had everything we needed for the day.  We attended the game and afterwards decided to stop at a post game tailgate for a few minutes to visit with one of her friends.  We had two things to get back to town for that day; (1) I had to pick up my daughter from a birthday party and (2) we were supposed to go have dinner that night with her parents at an Eagles Club.  When it came time to leave the tailgate to get back to town for these two events, she makes it seem as if my daughter is the reason we can't stick around longer.  No mention of the dinner with her parents.  We get back to town and I ask her to stop at Subway so I can get my daughter (who we had just picked up) and my son (who was at home all day by himself) dinner since we were meeting her parents.  She flipped out and told me to drop her off at my house first so she could leave me and go to her dinner while I take care of my kids myself and then catch up with her later.  Subway was literally across the street from the birthday party we picked my daughter up from.  I was trying to take care of my kids dinner before I went to dinner with her parents.  She just doesn't care at that moment.  But I will tell you if roles were reversed she would want me with her for her kids errands.  All of the sudden something that didn't matter (dinner with her parents) when we were tailgating with her friend after the game with no hurries now became big enough to fight when taking care of my kids dinner real quick came into the equation.  This is probably as mild as it gets, but it is fresh in my head.

One of the events that has scared me the most happened a couple years ago.  We were out and about one evening and stopped for dinner and a few drinks.  I probably had 3-4 drinks and she had the same, but they affect her much more strongly.  We got done around midnight and were heading home.  She asked me to stop and a friends' house that had just had a baby.  I said, sure, no problem, just call them because it is midnight and they have a baby.  She demanded we go there unannounced and I refused due to the rude nature of the actions.  These people would not have appreciated us showing up at midnight with a newborn.  The whole time this conversation was ensuing I was in the process of heading home toward our house on the highway.  She got mad and asked me to stop on the highway and she will get out and walk to their house.  I wasn't going to play that game and continued to drive toward our house.  She texted her friend who works as a 911 dispatcher (my GF dispatched for 911 for probably 15 years prior to us meeting).  She told her friend I was holding her in a car against her will, basically told her I kidnapped her, and asked for a cop to be dispatched to pull me over.  Mind you I had more to drink that I probably should have.  I would have got popped for DUI no doubt, even if it was just a little over the limit.  I immediately pulled off the highway and parked in a supermarket parking lot and got out of the car.  Cops came, drove us both home, we went to get the car in the morning.  I could have got a DUI and probably lost my job as a good part of my job is driving and I have a company car.  That had the potential to be a life changing event and she just doesn't care and loses her mind in the moment.  She will deny being unreasonable that night to her death.  Says I should have left her on the highway and none of that would have happened.

I will try to think of more events with specific words.  I could show you text threads with her that would blow your mind.  She constantly hangs up phone call on me when she has to face consequences of her words and actions.  She will tell me to leave her alone and she doesn't want to talk to me, them proceed to text me books and books of hateful words right afterwards.  Hateful stuff, attacking me and my kids and continuing to argue.  She loves to argue by text.  I hate texting.   

 

[strugglingBF]

Another one of our incidents that happened a couple years ago.  We attended a work event for her job.  We both drank too much that night.  I drove home.  She wanted to stop at a bar on the way.  I said we had both had enough and were pushing our luck as is and came home.  She tried to leave with a car we jointly owned and insured.  I wouldn't let her take the car.  She was fall over drunk.  The car was in the garage and I was standing in the driver door not allowing it to close.  She started pulling out anyway, which would have crushed me had I not jumped on the doorjamb of the car and rode it out of the garage. The door of the vehicle actually caught on the garage and turned it backwards.  I narrowly fit between the car and the side of the garage opening.  I have to take some responsibility here as I wouldn't let her leave.  I also did the worst thing that I have ever done to a woman in my life.  I back-handed her as she started to pull the vehicle out with me on the side of it.  In my head it was like a "wake up" smack.  It wasn't meant to hurt her and it was not with force.  More like a "what are you doing" thing.  Regardless, I went to therapy to find out what made me make that decision because I have never lifted a hand towards a woman, nor will I again.  That was me feeling threatened and I reacted poorly.  No excuses.  I have to own it and work on the problems in myself that made me act that way.  Cops were dispatched to my house that night, and they made her leave for the night.  She had them take her to a ex's house that night to purposely hurt me more.  She tried to lie about it but she was sharing her phone location with me all night.  Not till I had concrete proof did she admit it.  Swears to this day nothing happened and she slept on the couch.  I have struggled to believe that one to this day, as she has used this guy with previous BF's in the past and hooked up with him.  Regardless, I decided to move past that event.  However, when dealing with a person with BPD I have a constant fear of her doing something to retaliate to making her angry.  It is hard to describe.  But there is a constant fear in me of not knowing how far she will go if she gets mad enough at me.  An how small of an event can trigger enough anger to want to hurt me back.  It is very unsettling.  We can have an argument about disagreeing about a decision I made with my kids and I worry about retaliation.  Not that she has retaliated for smaller stuff.  It is more about not knowing about where that point is for her because it is hard to gauge her level of anger.

I have cut her off of alcohol on other nights where she actually punched me in the face.  That happened once and is not a repeat occurrence, but she chipped my teeth that night. 

[Ozzie101]

Often, as you may have learned, pwBPD have a very strong sense of shame. Anything even perceived as a criticism can elicit a major outburst. For them, if their feelings or memories (and remember, for them feelings=facts) or actions are wrong, then they themselves are wrong/bad/unworthy of love. It's extreme to us Nons, but it's typically the case for BPD situations. Your wife is aware she's often late. She may feel guilt and shame for that. Because she doesn't know how to handle those feelings, she lashes out at you. Think that might be what was going on here?

Whose responsibility is it for her to be on time? It sounds like she's trying to put the responsibitily on you. Are you letting her? Think about that.

The car incident – yeah. That's another thing that could be very serious. Also, dwelling on things that happened in the past is a biggie with pwBPD, in my experience. But does it do any good to rehash these events with her? When they do come up, do you bring them up or does she? If she does, how do you usually respond?

The text trap is a bad one. My H and I eventually made an agreement that we would have no important or serious conversations via text: day-to-day stuff and jokes only. That's helped a lot. Do you think she'd agree to that?

[Ozzie101]

Incidents of physical violence are serious and I'm glad you've sought therapy and are seeking more. There was also the violence with your GF's daughter towards your children.

The car seems to be a major theme here with incidents -- that and alcohol. Just spitballing here, but what would happen if you met her places instead of driving together?

[strugglingBF]

I am putting some of our biggest events out here so you can understand how large this can get.  In many of these events my anger contributed to the results as well.  Through some therapy I have learned that I need to stay in control of myself at all times, regardless of the situation, and do everything I can to keep it from escalating.  I haven't been the best at that in the past and it is something I am working on.  I still fail, especially when she attacks my kids, but I am trying to learn a different approach to all of this as I can be my own worst enemy sometimes with my responses.

[strugglingBF]

I think you are dead on with the sense of shame.  I think that is exactly why she lashes out.  I didn't take responsibility for her being late.  I just said next time I will plan to come get you, even if it is in the opposite direction of where we are ultimately going.

We both bring up past events at times.  Maybe we both need to move on.  I get concerned sometimes because she doesn't grasp how evil and damaging some of her actions are.  Sometimes I want her to understand what could have happened that night, and how careless she was.  I am growing to understand she will never see that, and maybe I need to move on and do everything I can to prevent similar situations in the future.  I guess that is the eggshells part.  My decisions constantly reflect the reactions I might elicit from her.  But I make decisions I wouldn't otherwise make if she were not a part of my life.  Are the decision I am not making effecting me and my kids in a negative way?  Another question I ask myself.

I like your texting suggestion and will try to work that one in when appropriate. 

[Ozzie101]

Yes. That's one thing I learned here: my responses were playing a role in the escalation of events. My issue wasn't anger, but I was doing a lot of JADE-ing (Justify Argue Defend Explain) and that was having the opposite effect of what I'd intended.

You are dealing with a lot and a difficult situation. I applaud you for taking the steps you need to take and putting in the effort to make things better. That's awesome!

Have you read or learned much about SET (Support Empathy Truth) or ending conflict? We've got some info here. When you have time and feel like it, it might be worth it to take a look:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/ending-conflict
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=143695.0

[Ozzie101]

I didn't take responsibility for her being late.  I just said next time I will plan to come get you, even if it is in the opposite direction of where we are ultimately going.

Yet, isn't that, in a way, taking responsibility for getting her somewhere on time?

Bringing up past events, particularly when they're emotionally charged ones, rarely goes somewhere good. From your experience with her, do you think she's ever likely to grasp how damaging her actions are? That she'll truly understand? From what you've said, I think it's unlikely. So, it may be better, as you said, to focus on how to prevent reoccurrences.

[PurpleElephant]

(...) I guess that is the eggshells part.  My decisions constantly reflect the reactions I might elicit from her.  But I make decisions I wouldn't otherwise make if she were not a part of my life.

Wanted to comment on this one.

I start to learn and see that I have to live my own life and focus on that. Even though we share house and kids. Decisions and activities I engage in are guided by what I want for myself and my life. I used to think about "us" all the time. But now it's becoming "this is what I want and do". By thinking like this the roles get reversed a bit: she has to respond to what I do. This is very new ground for me.

First she started challenging all my decisions. But I remain calm, and proceed. But I make sure I listen to her when she speaks up! I love her extremely much and I want her to feel that. But bottom line is that I'm living my life, and _next to that_ we have a shared life. This way I don't walk on eggshells. Because I focus on myself. But not in a bad or egocentric way.

I think what many of us have in common is that we focus too much on our pwBPD, and the relationship. Including myself. I'm trying to work on this. If I'm having it good, or better, W also benefits. Because then I'm stronger and can deal with her and her illness better.

[Ozzie101]

Really good insight, PurpleElephant!

This is something I've struggled with a lot, particularly lately: where to draw the line between truly selfish behavior and taking care of myself in a responsible way.

It seems to be a common theme here. So many of us are caretakers by nature (maybe part of what draws pwBPD to us, and vice versa) and it's not easy to break those deep-seeded patterns.

Listening with empathy is key to all of this. Can you give an example of a time you stayed calm and listened to her so she felt heard? That could be very helpful for the rest of us.

[strugglingBF]

Thanks for the insight Purple Elephant.  Scary thought for me right now because she makes lots of threats when I try to make decisions that aren't in line with what she would do.  So I live in fear of those threats.  Maybe she would have no follow through, and she is relying on the threat of the threat to control me.  Maybe I need more balls in certain situations.

For example, my son asked me if he can take his Xbox to his mom's house on her time because he doesn't have much to do over there.  He likes to play Xbox with his friends online.  During his mom's weeks he has to go MIA from his friends because he doesn't have a Xbox there.  My GF is totally against it because it may involve me picking him up from his mom's after school once every two weeks so he doesn't have to take it to school and risk damaging it.  BTW...my ex wife lives literally 2 miles from my house.  A 3 minute drive.  My GF is ok with it if he takes it to school with him so I don't have to go out of my way (3 minutes on a Friday afternoon) to pick him up form his mom's so he can bring it back to my house on my time.  He would normally just ride the bus to my place.  I should preface this by saying she doesn't like my son because he doesn't play sports like she thinks boys should do.  He is in band and she doesn't go to his concerts because she thinks band is stupid.  I go to probably 80% of all her kids events.  Her son played soccer half-assed and sat the bench all year, but I still went to support him.  I think she has negative feelings for my son partially because of the assault incident with her daughter.  That is what I am dealing with here.  Her views are so distorted she probably blames my son for eating dinner at the time her daughter was angry and being in the way of the Dawn bottle she threw at him.  Really, that is what I am dealing with.  Back to the Xbox.  She will literally threaten not to talk to me or see me if I agree to pick him up from his mom's so he doesn't have to  take the Xbox to school.  Most ironic thing about all this...we (me and her) used to run her kids stuff to their father's place all the time when they forgot it or needed it...INCLUDING HER SON'S XBOX HE WOULD TAKE TO HIS DAD'S.  If I bring that up she tells me to leave her kids out of it.  Of course her kids now have cars and licenses, so it doesn't matter now.  She will bring that up as well.     

[Ozzie101]

Letting her dictate what you do or don't do (especially when it involves your kids) is not a very healthy dynamic, as you recognize. Acting in fear of her reactions is walking on eggshells and is not healthy or sustainable.

What would happen if you just did what you want to do regarding your kids and the Xbox? Don't mention her kids at all. Don't bring the past into it. Don't accuse her of not liking your son. Just matter-of-factly, this is what works for me so I did it sort of thing. Be empathetic. Be kind. Don't rub her face in it. Just do what you think is right.

She threatened to not see you or talk to you. Would it be a problem to see if that happens? To let her respond how she responds? Take that "break" time to refill your cup and work on "you"?

[Lumind]

Hello Struggling,

I'm very new here myself, just started posting a couple days ago about my situation.  I've read through the thread and identify with so much of what you're going through and the behaviors you describe.  I always was pretty convinced that my wife had BPD but reading through other's experiences has kind of solidified it in my mind because of how similar the experiences feel.  Before I started posting here I felt pretty alone and isolated, but being here and engaging has made a huge difference in knowing I'm not the only one struggling like this. 

The one piece I wanted to comment on specifically is the part about shame/guilt and not wanting to admit past wrongs because she can't cope with those feelings.  My wife is this to an absolute T.  Pretty much any time she's confronted with something that she did wrong, even if it's minor, she will respond in full blown rage or a complete shut down of all communication.  However, if your GF is anything like my wife, she does know deep down that she's hurting you and she's just trying to avoid the pain of confronting that. 

The reason I say this is because on very rare occasions, when something has pushed me to the point of desperation and I'm either clearly depressed or outright sobbing, there's been times when she opens up and clearly tells and shows how sorry she is for the pain that she's causing me.  She'll tell me that she knows she's difficult to live with, that she's sorry for the way she makes me feel, and she's even told me that she knows that her trauma she's experienced in her childhood has caused me legitimate trauma of my own with her actions.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that attitude stays around.  This will happen and then the next day she's back to blaming me for everything under the sun and taking no blame for anything she's ever done. 

Just thought it might be encouraging to hear from someone having very similar experiences that it's possible and maybe even likely that she realizes deep down the pain she's causing, but is just having a hard time dealing with it. 

Best of luck to you my friend.  It's always going to be a bumpy road it seems but I wish you the smoothest ride possible.  Stay strong!

[strugglingBF]

More insight...My GF hates my ex-wife and my ex-wife isn't particularly fond of my GF either.  I left my ex-wife for my GF.  My marriage was a mess and needed to end, but neither of us had the guts to do it.  Me and my ex-wife were essentially just living a roommates and co-parenting for years.  We feared what a divorce would do to our kids and we stayed together for them (bad decision).  I cheated and ended up with my GF.  So it wasn't really set up for much success with regards to my ex-wife liking my GF.  That being said, my ex-wife in her initial anger didn't exactly make it easy for my kids to like my GF either.  GF has had an uphill battle from the beginning.  Even 5 years later and numerous attempts to be kind to my ex-wife, ex hasn't responded at all with any kind of kindness.  She may not ever.  My GF holds some of it against me.  Asks me to shun my ex in public at my kids events.  I am not overly friendly with her anyway, but she wants me to not say a word to her.  If she sits near me she wants me to move my seat away from her.  She essentially wants me to make my ex as uncomfortable as my GF is when she is around her.  I get that, but I still need to parent.  I stress out over things like doctor appointments, dentist appointments, school conferences...because I know my GF is going to be crazy about them.  Text me throughout.  Are you sitting next to her?  Are you talking to her?    This one is tough for me because I do think my ex needs to move on and be an adult.  She is setting a poor example for my kids about kindness.  And, my kids pick up on her feelings for my GF and it makes it harder to establish a healthy household over here.  When we lived together, my GF constantly targeted my son when one of her kids was acting up.  Almost like she needed to even the score or have a similar negative force on my side of the relationship.  For example, we would catch her daughter with a boy in the basement at 3:00 am on a school night.  We would address that situation, sometimes with disappointment and anger.  The next day she would find something to get on my son about.  One night she yelled at him for coming downstairs too many times to get a drink of milk (he came down once).  This was on the heels of her daughter coming through the house, cussing out loud the entire time, smashing lightbulbs out of my fixtures on the way out.  I lost it on her that night and lit into her.  That is not acceptable to me regardless of BPD.   Those are the situations I struggle with.  Maybe I am too weak to deal with someone with BPD.  I am trying to get stronger.  But when it goes too far how do you address it without pushing the Borderline further?  Do I need to educate my kids on BPD so they don't take things so personally?  Then I would worry about that education coming out to my GF.  Can you imagine her anger if she knew I was telling my kids how do deal with her BPD?

[strugglingBF]

Letting her dictate what you do or don't do (especially when it involves your kids) is not a very healthy dynamic, as you recognize. Acting in fear of her reactions is walking on eggshells and is not healthy or sustainable.

What would happen if you just did what you want to do regarding your kids and the Xbox? Don't mention her kids at all. Don't bring the past into it. Don't accuse her of not liking your son. Just matter-of-factly, this is what works for me so I did it sort of thing. Be empathetic. Be kind. Don't rub her face in it. Just do what you think is right.

She threatened to not see you or talk to you. Would it be a problem to see if that happens? To let her respond how she responds? Take that "break" time to refill your cup and work on "you"?

Your second paragraph.  I don't know because I am trained on the path of least resistance with her.  I have to make a decision, at least in my head, that I need to either disappoint my son or anger my GF.  So I disappoint my son because I convince myself that is the lesser of two evils.  I need to start making the right choice for me, respectful to all parties while doing so, and let the cards fall where they may.  One of my GF's favorite lines is "so breakup".  If is say I am not happy with something...so breakup.   If I tell her that I don't like the way she is acting or treating me...so breakup.  The one time I was really contemplating breaking up, right after her daughter hit my son, she was a mess.  She knows I am a very sexual person, so she all of the sudden opened up WAY more than normal in that area.  Actually initiated it every day for a month straight (she never initiates).  Was spontaneous and adventurous (which takes a lot of work, and usually alcohol, for her).  She was this desperate person that was clinging to me in a way she knew was important to me.  While I enjoyed some of it, it was too much.  It was what I want out of her in that department in some ways, but it was times 1000.  For example, I like cake, but I was being force feed full cake after full cake at a time.  If that makes any sense.  And it wasn't genuine.   

[strugglingBF]

Hello Struggling,

The reason I say this is because on very rare occasions, when something has pushed me to the point of desperation and I'm either clearly depressed or outright sobbing, there's been times when she opens up and clearly tells and shows how sorry she is for the pain that she's causing me.  She'll tell me that she knows she's difficult to live with, that she's sorry for the way she makes me feel, and she's even told me that she knows that her trauma she's experienced in her childhood has caused me legitimate trauma of my own with her actions.  Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that attitude stays around.  This will happen and then the next day she's back to blaming me for everything under the sun and taking no blame for anything she's ever done. 

Thanks Lumind!  I can identify with this.  I have been much quicker to tear lately, partially because you start to question who you are and how bad a person you are when dating a BP.  When I break down in front of her, there is a immediate shift in her disposition and she becomes VERY caring.  It is almost training me to let my emotions out in front of her more.  I don't think she wants to hurt people.  I don't think she hates me or my kids.  But it takes a lot (someone crying) to snap her out of it.  It is almost eerie how quickly it can change her.   

[PurpleElephant]

So I disappoint my son because I convince myself that is the lesser of two evils.

Here I disagree with you. You don't only disappoint your son but also yourself. You want the best for him, right? To make him happy.

You have to stand up for yourself and, in this case, your son. In case of picking up your son with the Xbox, is it an idea to try to have a small Dearman conversation? Details about this technique can be found under Tools on this site as you probably know.

Describe: hey... tomorrow when my son has to go home from school he has his Xbox with him. Don't describe the past. Stick to the facts for this specific occasion.
Express: I'm concerned he will damage the thing if he takes the bus and that would make me sad. Focus on your feelings in the situation.
Assert: I want to pick him up with the car.
Reinforce: It will be a short drive.

Stick to this occasion and topic only (mindfulness), be strong and confident (appearance) and be open for suggestions from her side (negotiate).

Of course we both know that she most likely will respond with anger. Or sadness.

And that's okay. She has full rights to have her own emotions.

But when she expresses them, listen to her. Truly listen. Don't think about your reaction, but really listen. Maybe even try to look behind the curtain when she talks. Her words don't necessarily indicate what she tries to communicate, or what she feels. Look at her body language. What is she trying to express?

Use the tools and techniques you can find around. Reflective listening is a great tool in my opinion. Try to really understand her. And respond to that. Make her feel that you hear her, that you respect her feelings.

But stand your ground. This is what you want, for your son. And for yourself. How she responds is up to her. And you respect that. Be calm, gentle and strong.

You respect yourself most of all. And this is what you want. Then you do that.