One step forward, three steps back?

[Depression = 72% of members]

My husband and I have been working so hard on how we communicate with his mom. The biggest thing we have been focused on is improving our validation. Historically, we haven't done that very well and we now understand how that has contributed to a lot of negative energy in our house. Responding to chaos with chaos does not help. I wouldn't say we are sailing on smooth waters, but it has certainly been smaller waves. A notable improvement.

But we are stuck. We have come to realize that my MIL cannot continue to live with us full time if we want any shot at a future that includes having a family or even if we just want the primary focus to be on us as a couple. We have implemented some boundaries and that has certainly helped, but in some ways it still feels like a band aid.

I am assuming that sticking to boundaries and validating appropriately will get easier with time, but right now it takes all our energy and leaves us exhausted. Sometimes, it feels like we can't even be happy when we handled something well with her because we feel depleted and are then more agitated with eachother than normal. It really sucks to be at home and to still feel like I have "to be on." I can't just kick my feet up on the sofa and hang out- I have to think deeply about every word and expression and today I am feeling kind of resentful about it. I don't always feel this way, but right now, it is hitting me hard.

Her "story" changes a lot, but we have tried to figure out what has been consistent for her in every variation of what she says she wants. She has consistently stated that she thinks she would benefit from more space. She started off by stating that she wants her own apartment and then it changed to going between our apartment and my SIL's house. Basically, everytime we revisit the topic, she still emphasizes wanting space, but the amount of support she gets from people increases. (This is a really long drawn out story and I am way oversimplifying here, but that's the gyst)

We recently reminded her that she needs to start making some concrete decisions about her plan. She contributes to rent here, and if there is any possibility of her moving, my husband and I would likely move to a smaller apartment when our lease is up. We mentioned that all 3 of us have consistently stated that we could benefit from having some space and that noone should feel like they can't fully be themselves in their own home. We reminded her that we love her and that we would be there for her regardless of where she lived. The desire for her own space is something that she consistently stated over and over again, so that is the one truth we stuck to.

Halfway through the conversation though, she was in tears. She didn't understand because we asked her if she wanted to move to NYC and now "we dont want her." We were able to prevent her becoming entirely disregulated, so the conversation wasn't a failure, but it still felt confusing. She isn't wrong. We did ask her, but we also didn't expect her to become completely dependent on us. We didn't expect to never have our own time alone. We have lived together 3 years now and I spent a few hours alone last month for the first time ever since she came. We explained that to her very gently, but she still seems to feel hurt.

All this time, I felt relief at the idea that we might finally have some time to ourselves. But now it feels like that idea is being disregarded again and I feel like the walls are closing in. I feel like we can't plan for a future family because we don't have any energy to spare as we are. Nor do I think it would be a healthy environment for kids if we choose to have them. And I feel like we are never going to have time to just be a regular married couple. I'm 33 and I know I have time, but I would like to feel like we can start talking about these things.

We have come to realize that we may have to make the decision regardless of what she wants. We may have to tell her that she has to move out part time even if she wants to stay, but we would rather it be a conclusion that she comes to on her own. Even though she emphasizes wanting space, whenever anyone but her brings it up, it ends up being a somewhat difficult conversation.

Marriage and relationships are hard. Even when you want to be in them. Even when you have supportive partners. Even when you love each other immensely. I never expected it to be easy. But BPD adds a layer of complication that most people don't experience or understand and this week has been a tough one for me as I think about all this.

So really, this is just me venting. And also wondering if anyone has been in a similar boat, and if yes, how did you handle those conversations?

[Spindle0516]

My husband and I have been working so hard on how we communicate with his mom. The biggest thing we have been focused on is improving our validation. Historically, we haven't done that very well and we now understand how that has contributed to a lot of negative energy in our house. Responding to chaos with chaos does not help. I wouldn't say we are sailing on smooth waters, but it has certainly been smaller waves. A notable improvement.

But we are stuck. We have come to realize that my MIL cannot continue to live with us full time if we want any shot at a future that includes having a family or even if we just want the primary focus to be on us as a couple. We have implemented some boundaries and that has certainly helped, but in some ways it still feels like a band aid.

I am assuming that sticking to boundaries and validating appropriately will get easier with time, but right now it takes all our energy and leaves us exhausted. Sometimes, it feels like we can't even be happy when we handled something well with her because we feel depleted and are then more agitated with eachother than normal. It really sucks to be at home and to still feel like I have "to be on." I can't just kick my feet up on the sofa and hang out- I have to think deeply about every word and expression and today I am feeling kind of resentful about it. I don't always feel this way, but right now, it is hitting me hard.

Her "story" changes a lot, but we have tried to figure out what has been consistent for her in every variation of what she says she wants. She has consistently stated that she thinks she would benefit from more space. She started off by stating that she wants her own apartment and then it changed to going between our apartment and my SIL's house. Basically, everytime we revisit the topic, she still emphasizes wanting space, but the amount of support she gets from people increases. (This is a really long drawn out story and I am way oversimplifying here, but that's the gyst)

We recently reminded her that she needs to start making some concrete decisions about her plan. She contributes to rent here, and if there is any possibility of her moving, my husband and I would likely move to a smaller apartment when our lease is up. We mentioned that all 3 of us have consistently stated that we could benefit from having some space and that noone should feel like they can't fully be themselves in their own home. We reminded her that we love her and that we would be there for her regardless of where she lived. The desire for her own space is something that she consistently stated over and over again, so that is the one truth we stuck to.

Halfway through the conversation though, she was in tears. She didn't understand because we asked her if she wanted to move to NYC and now "we dont want her." We were able to prevent her becoming entirely disregulated, so the conversation wasn't a failure, but it still felt confusing. She isn't wrong. We did ask her, but we also didn't expect her to become completely dependent on us. We didn't expect to never have our own time alone. We have lived together 3 years now and I spent a few hours alone last month for the first time ever since she came. We explained that to her very gently, but she still seems to feel hurt.

All this time, I felt relief at the idea that we might finally have some time to ourselves. But now it feels like that idea is being disregarded again and I feel like the walls are closing in. I feel like we can't plan for a future family because we don't have any energy to spare as we are. Nor do I think it would be a healthy environment for kids if we choose to have them. And I feel like we are never going to have time to just be a regular married couple. I'm 33 and I know I have time, but I would like to feel like we can start talking about these things.

We have come to realize that we may have to make the decision regardless of what she wants. We may have to tell her that she has to move out part time even if she wants to stay, but we would rather it be a conclusion that she comes to on her own. Even though she emphasizes wanting space, whenever anyone but her brings it up, it ends up being a somewhat difficult conversation.

Marriage and relationships are hard. Even when you want to be in them. Even when you have supportive partners. Even when you love each other immensely. I never expected it to be easy. But BPD adds a layer of complication that most people don't experience or understand and this week has been a tough one for me as I think about all this.

So really, this is just me venting. And also wondering if anyone has been in a similar boat, and if yes, how did you handle those conversations?

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Spindle0516, 

I so appreciate that you came here to share your heart with us and this really difficult place you are in. Of course you want some of your own space! I would too! That is not an unreasonable desire/need at all. It's awesome that you have that internal boundary that lets you know this. 

With a pwBPD, it is such a mixed message that they often share. On one hand the message is "I want space," and on the other hand it is "Don't leave me!" Have you ever read the book I Hate You, Don't Leave Me? Your situation reminded me of the title because it sounds like what you are dealing with. A pwBPD may verbally say one thing but their hearts are saying another. I do think you are wise to plan ahead and prepare. Often it is difficult to go forward with a big change like this without someone being sad, but the overall greater picture is what you need to focus on for the mental health of all of you.

 
Wools

[Spindle0516]

Wools, I actually have not read that book, but I have heard that phrase. It honestly describes my MIL perfectly, as I am sure it does for most people on this board.

We know that we ultimately have to do what is best for us. Right now, our mental health is suffering. We both struggle with anxiety and depression and we struggle more when she is struggling. Knowing this still doesn't take away the guilt of knowing that this decision will come at the expense of her mental health.

My husband and I cope differently, but I am really trying to understand what this is like for him. I am not the direct daughter, so separation will come as a relief for me. I think it will be more complicated for him. I am curious if anyone else has gone through something similar as "kicking out" a parent? And if so, what things did you do to make it more/less painful?

My husband tends to process internally, but has done a better job of trying to communicate what he is feeling. It has still been hard for him to verbalize things though. But I am also curious if anyone who is the direct child of a BPD parent could shed some light on what he may be feeling/could possibly go through as we continue down this path? I know I have to take care of myself in this, but I also want to know what I can be doing that is most helpful for him. I know that beyond feeling responsible for his mom, he also feels a lot of guilt because he feels like it is his fault we are in this situation. (I wouldn't say that at all though. We made a decision together not realizing exactly what this would look like)

And finally, this story is actually longer and more complicated. I have really tried to simplify it so as to avoid a novel, but would it be helpful to add more details and what some of these conversations actually looked like?

Thanks a bunch! 

[pursuingJoy]

Hi Spindle!   My story is different but I really feel for you, so I wanted to offer some ideas. We talked about moving my BPD MIL in with us when we got married. She decided she didn't want to. Fast forward 5 years, it's still our biggest point of contention. She now says I never wanted her to move in with us. (Not at all true.)

We haven't handled it well at all. After several years of enough conflict, H and I agreed we didn't want to live with her. I trusted my enmeshed husband to have reassuring, loving conversations with his mom about alternative living arrangements. I ended up spilling the beans about what my husband and I had 'decided' and that's how I learned the hard way that they were both simply talking about moving her in with us someday.

All that to say not only are you doing a stellar job of thinking through this, don't underestimate the fact that you and your husband are on the same page. That is a blessing! You can do this. You're a team. Stick with it.    

I know your MIL's emotions are on high right now, but is it realistic to start thinking about accepting that as a reality and taking a step beyond it?

Indecision can create issues all its own. My MIL can be unusually indecisive, and when she is, it works to provide 2 options she can pick from.  f you think indecision is part of the issue, I find it helps to develop a framework, a basic plan, and present said plan in a way that the framework or timeline cannot be changed, but the pieces in between are subject to opinions or feedback. Can you adapt a version of this to your situation, work to stay calm and insert reassurance as needed?

Possible steps:
Highlight that you agreed in the beginning that you would all need your own space, affirm that this does not mean you'll abandon her (maybe even specify how it will improve your relationship, how you plan to connect with her or support her)
Present a very basic timeline that you and your husband think is loving and realistic and meets your needs as well as hers.
Offer her 2 options that might work for her within that timeline, empower her to be part of and focus on the solution.

In books about BPD, I read over and over the importance of communicating clearly and concisely.  If you develop a plan, keep it simple, don't 'uptalk' or leave room for interpretation, be loving, and simply repeat as necessary.  

She will be upset, but your calmness, consistency, confidence and a solid plan of action might provide her a measure of support and confidence as she navigates her scary feelings. Having a plan in place may also provide you with some emotional relief as well.

I'm sure that whatever solutions you come up with, it will be thoughtful and just what is needed.

pj