Should I stay or leave?

[PurpleElephant]

Don't answer the question that's in the title please, it's not allowed Just looking for insights.

gfBPD has told me 5 months ago it's over. But nothing happens. The situation is static. I rent a house in the city. Sometimes I sleep there, sometimes she does. We have 4 young children. We live our lives in the main house. Eat dinner etc. She has big ups and big downs. They last days.

She avoids me emotionally. And often physically as well. Goes out of the room etc. But when we're separated too long (1+ day) she reaches out again. Comes up with excuses for contact. She truly does not want to be with me, but at the same time needs me all the time. Often she "uses" me to vent. When she's doing bad, I get the talk. I've learned to deal with it. Respond with reflective listening, don't take it personal. Manage to make sure things calm down.

Me being able not to respond with anger the last months has driven her nuts. I'm calm all the time. Despite her saying extremely cruel things in a down period.

Now she copes with a new strategy. Sex. She's addicted. Very much so. Not with me! She buys crazy amounts of sexy clothes. Disappearing night after night. It's very obvious. Traces everywhere.

When she comes back she's a wreck. She's becoming worse and worse, is doing very bad. Nothing happens with the household. Literally.

But I love her insanely much. She's doing very bad, while I'm getting used to this new situation and doing rather fine given the circumstances. I focus on myself and the children (she has no energy at all to engage with them, it's very painful to watch).

The house in the city is small. No space for children.

I'm not sure where to go from here. When she's angry she says I have to move out. But in reality, everything just "goes on" as is. When our T asks questions about practicalities around the break up (or me), she breaks down in tears and refuses to answer.

We're in a static limbo. She's becoming worse and worse. I become stronger and stronger. It's a very strange situation and I don't have a clue what to do. Just go on? Move out? Which will result in something very dark for her and the children.. I'm stuck.

Any thoughts are much appreciated.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

I'm sorry, PurpleElephant. But good for you for being strong and not responding with anger.

Sounds like fear of abandonment push/pull in overdrive. She's scared and lashing out ("I'll drive you away before you can leave me"), but can't completely push you away because she still needs and wants you.

How do you usually respond when she insists you move out?

[PurpleElephant]

Hi Ozzie,

I think you're right about the lashing out. But why doesn't she go forward with it? We're in this limbo. Whenever someone wants to discuss with her about 'the next steps', me or T, she shuts down. She realises that certain steps will result in a real break up and she seems very afraid of that.

I can't wrap my head around it. Often I think she's just waiting for me to leave. And that she treats me like dirt lately in order to speed up that process.

When she says or shouts I have to move out, which is not all that often, I ask her which steps she wants us to take first (economy, housing, etc) and when.
But then she shuts down, e.g. crying or anger or leaving.

She has certain statements to ease her own pain. Me having to move out is one of them. But sometimes it seems it's just that; a thing to say to ease her pain.

But maybe I fool myself. Maybe she wants me gone, but just doesn't know how to get there.

It's very scary for her. She will fall in a black hole on many levels and she seems aware of that sometimes. And to add to that, she has said that she wants that. That she deserves misery. And that I should move on so I can have a good life without her trouble.

What do you think?

[Ozzie101]

It's the push/pull dynamic and, yes, it's hard to wrap one's head around.

Look at it this way: A person with BPD has a very deep-seated, very strong fear of abandonment/rejection. They can't stand the idea of someone they care about leaving. So, they do whatever they can to keep you there. At the same time, the intimacy terrifies them (if you really know them and their problems, you might leave, or if you do leave, it will hurt even more) so they push away. Also, if they are the one who pushes you away, it was their choice. They weren't abandoned. They have control.

What does she really want? Even she might not know.

It could be that's she's trying to provoke a reaction from you. A sort of extinction burst since you're not responding with anger. PwBPD often want others around them to mirror (or justify) their feelings.

I have to admit, I've experienced this on a smaller scale with my H, though it's been a while. He threatened divorce, or actually pulled out a suitcase to pack. This was before I came here and learned about BPD and the tools. I grabbed a case instead and said I was leaving. He almost literally melted. Now, I wouldn't recommend that and wouldn't do it that way now, but I have been there and experienced the "push" myself.

How do you respond when she insists you move out? If this is a dynamic that's been going a long time and it's working for her on some level, then she's likely to keep it up.

[PurpleElephant]

How do you respond when she insists you move out? If this is a dynamic that's been going a long time and it's working for her on some level, then she's likely to keep it up.

To give an example, the other day we had a 'you have to move out' talk again. Upon which I suggested, rather calm, that we could arrange the practical things then.

Just me saying that terrifies her. It's visible on her whole body. She came up with excuses as for why we could not do that now, but that we 'should do it later'. That it's all too much now. And then she walks away.

This is the duality. It's over, I have to move. "But we're not going to do anything to make that happen."

That is basically the summary of the cycle that repeats itself over and over.

Don't get me wrong. She's very pulled away. She's "gone". And obsessed with sex, as I wrote in the original post. She disappears for days at the time and comes back broken. This hurts me like nothing else. But I find comfort in the thought that she's very ill and in a lot of pain. Comfort is perhaps the wrong word but it put things in perspective. I love her so very much, and I have a tremendous amount of empathy for her and her struggling at the moment.

I wish I could do something for her but I can't. Other than being a caretaker. Which is what I am at the moment. But the books tell me that's not a good thing.

I feel stuck.

[Ozzie101]

I can understand. And, no, it's not good to be a caretaker. Not good for either one of you. Right now, she's got what works for her. She has you and she doesn't have you. But is that really sustainable? Or should it be?

You can't control her.

Instead, I think I'd focus on you. Decide what it is you want. Do you want to improve your relationship? Do you want to move on?

Those are not easy questions and answering them will likely take some time and soul-searching.

Once you decide what you want to do, there are steps to move toward it. If it's stay, then the challenge would be to focus on changing the current dynamic. (I'm sure others can help more with specifics there, but I can do my best to try.) If it's to leave, then it becomes moving towards the true separation, despite her actions. Moving to what you want with calmness, empathy and firmness.

She will not break you out of this limbo. That's going to be up to you.

[PurpleElephant]

Instead, I think I'd focus on you. Decide what it is you want. Do you want to improve your relationship? Do you want to move on?

Those are not easy questions and answering them will likely take some time and soul-searching.

You hit the nail on the head. This is where I'm at today, the Big Question. Hence the title of this post. It keeps my mind occupied pretty much all the time.

I realize as you say that it's going to be up to me to break this pattern.

The silly thing - or hard thing - is that she keeps repeating that it's over, that I have to leave. So it makes me feel I don't have a choice.

But then it gets countered by her not being able to proceed with practical consequences.

So then I get a bit of hope back. But I'm careful with that. To protect myself.

You talk about changing the current dynamic. I've tried so much now. I truly don't know what to do or try anymore.

If you have any thoughts they're more than welcome.

[Ozzie101]

It's clear that what you've been doing isn't working.

That's part of where your answer to the stay or go comes in. If you want to try to repair the situation, that would require a different approach than if you want to move on.

Regardless, though, I think it's important to set boundaries. The promiscuity. The threats. They all need to stop and you won't tolerate them. How are you on setting boundaries? https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Are there any consequences for her actions?

[PurpleElephant]

Are there any consequences for her actions?

The boundaries have always been difficult for me. The answer is; no, there are pretty much no consequences for her.

It's rather the opposite. If I have planned an evening out with a friend then I'm very capable of canceling the event because soBPD asks if I can help out with something practical.

By pure coincidence (...) this happens quite frequently whenever I try to take care of myself. She tests me, often. Latest today. And I gave in without hesitation.

I understand more and more that I have to set and enforce boundaries.

Ironically I'm quite good at it in f.e. my work situation. I'm blessed with a function high up in a large company.

But my love has always been my weakness.

I will try to think about this concept in the upcoming days. Try to see if I can come up with certain specific boundaries for myself. I've read that I should not 'announce' them. That I should simply enforce them whenever relevant. And be consistent.

I have to work with this.

Thank you so much for your kind and insightful words today. Bless you.

[Ozzie101]

Yes, that is something to work on.

If you let her manipulate you or ruin your plans, she's just going to keep doing it. And your own energy (physical, emotional) will go down while your resentment will likely build. This is not a sustainable situation.

Now, if you do start implementing boundaries and not bowing to her wishes, you are very likely to deal with some strong and unpleasant push-back. The important thing is to stay the course. Be empathetic. Be loving. But be firm. Every time you cave, it will take many more times to make up the step backwards.

So, for instance, if she wants you to cancel a plan with a friend, say something along the lines of, "I'm sorry, babe. I've already got plans. I'll take care of that loose doorknob tomorrow. Love you!" Pleasant. Nonchalant. Will she like it? Most likely not. In fact, she'll probably work herself up into a rage. But if you stick to your guns (and stay calm with it), it will eventually get better. It will take time and effort and practice, but in the end, you have a lot to gain.

Does that sound like something you can work towards?