BPD daughter attacked me to the point I could not defend myself

[Parents! Get help here!]

Hello BPDfamily, this is my first post. I recently came across this site in a desperate search for answers and help with my 25 y/o daughter, who has had emotional regulation problems since she was 3. I am 67, her father, my husband is 72. Her teen years were a nightmare. We sent her to a wilderness therapeutic program at 14, where she spent 54 days. Within 2 weeks of her return she was back to her previous behaviors. We have spent so much money on therapies, medications, psychiatrists, etc., and she's only getting worse. Violence, excruciatingly hateful texts, blame, all of the statements you all share about your own BPD relationships- that's her. The last thread I read, "Why do BPD daughters hate their mothers?" resonated so much with me. I am the strong mother, her father has enabled her for years. Last week she crossed the line. She broke up with an alcoholic boyfriend she had been living with for a year, and because she had no money, no job, we capitulated and moved her back with us, even though we had promised each other that would never happen. During the move she and I got into an argument and she attacked me to the point I could not defend myself. I am in good shape but she had rage in her. She slapped me hard across the face, grabbed my hair and pushed me down, pulling out handfuls of my hair. I was screaming for my husband and she let go when he came in. I immediately called the police. My husband would not send her to jail. So her current therapist talked her into going to a psych hospital for a few days, starting today. We're hoping we can find a treatment center we can afford after that. She has insurance but it is not one of the big ones. We are self-employed. I feel like I could go on forever. This is the first time I've talked about this to people who really get it. My therapist and my best friend are helpful but they don't really know what it's like. Our son, who is 4 years older is finally getting his own therapy where he lives for how negatively she has affected his life. Does anyone have any experience with treatment centers in the Western U.S. that have been helpful for BPD? I appreciate any feedback/help.

[wavewatcher]

Hello BPDfamily, this is my first post. I recently came across this site in a desperate search for answers and help with my 25 y/o daughter, who has had emotional regulation problems since she was 3. I am 67, her father, my husband is 72. Her teen years were a nightmare. We sent her to a wilderness therapeutic program at 14, where she spent 54 days. Within 2 weeks of her return she was back to her previous behaviors. We have spent so much money on therapies, medications, psychiatrists, etc., and she's only getting worse. Violence, excruciatingly hateful texts, blame, all of the statements you all share about your own BPD relationships- that's her. The last thread I read, "Why do BPD daughters hate their mothers?" resonated so much with me. I am the strong mother, her father has enabled her for years. Last week she crossed the line. She broke up with an alcoholic boyfriend she had been living with for a year, and because she had no money, no job, we capitulated and moved her back with us, even though we had promised each other that would never happen. During the move she and I got into an argument and she attacked me to the point I could not defend myself. I am in good shape but she had rage in her. She slapped me hard across the face, grabbed my hair and pushed me down, pulling out handfuls of my hair. I was screaming for my husband and she let go when he came in. I immediately called the police. My husband would not send her to jail. So her current therapist talked her into going to a psych hospital for a few days, starting today. We're hoping we can find a treatment center we can afford after that. She has insurance but it is not one of the big ones. We are self-employed. I feel like I could go on forever. This is the first time I've talked about this to people who really get it. My therapist and my best friend are helpful but they don't really know what it's like. Our son, who is 4 years older is finally getting his own therapy where he lives for how negatively she has affected his life. Does anyone have any experience with treatment centers in the Western U.S. that have been helpful for BPD? I appreciate any feedback/help.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[formflier]

Oh my...that had to be absolutely terrifying.  Am I correct that the first physical assault you have experienced?  I'm so sorry that happened.

Can you help me understand how it was your husband's decision not to send her to jail, instead of yours?    Did I understand that right that you wanted her to go but he didn't?

I do think it's a positive thing that she is going to hospital and her therapist is aware.   How do you feel about that?  

We are here for you and we "get it".  Please come back soon and continue your story.

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

Thank you so much for your reply. No, this is not her first physical assault toward me, or toward anyone else. The last time she slapped my face she was 14; I slapped back but not her face. She started screaming and it became chaos. There have been many, many things broken, destroyed, etc. over the years. I went on antidepressants when she was 4 because of her behavior. I just didn't understand it and blamed myself. My parenting was not great so I did not know how to deal with her meltdowns and super clinginess. She has been diagnosed ADHD since 7 and is also very anxious. But the meltdowns, tantrums, violence, etc. have been what has done me in.  When the police were here they said, "I'm sure nobody wants to press charges or send her to jail, do they?" My husband said, "No, she wouldn't be safe." She has tried to commit suicide once by swallowing her medication but immediately told my husband and her brother (I was out) and they made her throw up and took her to the E.R. So he was thinking of that. I was still very upset and crying and went along with it. He later said he regretted not saying yes. But, she is in a psych hospital as of last night. She had agreed to it; she did apologize to me and said she went too far. I was very supportive of her going; she needs inpatient help. But she is already fighting it and threatening to leave if we don't come get her, which we won't. Her Dr. said he will put her on a 72hr hold if she tries to leave because she is not stable. So I am glad she is safe. I am also glad for the lack of enormous stress and chaos that I feel when I'm in her world. I just don't know how bonded I am to her anymore. Huge guilt with that one. I know I am partly responsible for her BPD; she has been so incredibly difficult to be around for so long. I have said things to her in the past that I wish I hadn't and I don't know how many more ways I can apologize to her, she can't let go. She has sent so many horrific texts to both me and my husband. Then she will be super loving. I have always tried to set boundaries with her; my husband was way too easy to give in to her. So I am the bad one. She was such a great baby and toddler; then everything changed. I read another mom's statement that said, "Are they BPD because we didn't bond with them or did we not bond with them because of the BPD? Somehow that helped me not to feel so much guilt. But I'm learning a lot about BPD through this site and others. Trying to have hope.

[formflier]

If given the choice of an inpatient psych hospital or jail, I have to imagine that the psych hospital has a far better chance of helping her

Please make sure her team at the hospital has "the full story".

What are your plans for her time in the hospital?

Best,

FF

[mariana1969]

Hello.  I cannot imagine how scary that day must have been for you, and the feeling that it is all starting over again because your daughter is moving back in.  I have the same feelings, and my child is only 16.  We are looking for treatment, and it seems to me one of the most important steps is for the BPD person to recognize their own diagnosis and with this awareness commit to treatment.  Our child, because he is a minor, does not have a BPD diagnosis, but we know that's it.  He is the hospital now for attacking my husband (and others) over the holidays. We plan to talk to him truthfully about the BPD diagnosis, since he claims he hates mindfulness and DBT treatment is all about mindfulness.
Does your daughter know about her own diagnosis?  I am curious to know, and see how this might be received.

I am new to group, and don't have much help to offer, but I know how you feel, and you are not alone.  My therapist tells me my child has their own "karmic journey" to go through, and I need to separate myself from me to keep myself safe.  I am trying.  But it's hard, isn't it?

Mariana

[wavewatcher]

Hi, my daughter (is that dd? I see that a lot) is actually embracing her time in the hospital. She's going to her groups and interacting with her unit. Her psychiatrist is weaning her off Xanax, has her on a specific anti-anxiety med., and she hasn't used weed and alcohol as a means to cope. I spoke with her last night and her voice was so much lighter. She will probably be discharged in a few days. So my husband and I are planning how to emotionally support her gains while holding our own boundaries. She has typically flaunted them and husband will compromise to avoid conflict and anger. I'm trying to get him to embrace the philosophies of this site but having grown up with an alcoholic mother and a bipolar sister he is used to being co-dependent and enabling.
Mariana, I'm so sorry you are also going through this with your son. Yes, it is very hard. My dd knows she is BPD; she and I went over her symptoms in a calm time and she saw herself, big time. Did not like it but especially now, after the attack, is starting to accept it. DBT individually and in groups can be very helpful. We live in a small town where DBT groups are not offered nor is there a DBT therapist. She was seeing one sporadically where she lived before but that is almost 3 hrs away, depending on weather conditions. But she has already started DBT phone sessions with a therapist she trusts from her wilderness program so that is good. I hope your son will be more accepting of DBT after his time in the hospital. Yes, keeping yourself safe is imperative. Someone on this site said holding boundaries while remaining calm is what loved ones with DBT need; I agree. Not always easy, though. Keep in touch.

[formflier]

How do you plan on getting your husband to change his approach?

Is there a way you can ask her med team what approach they recommend?

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

Last night my husband and I had a frank talk about our parenting styles over the years, and what we both need to do to change so there can be a better outcome for all of us. It will take time but we are committed. He is picking her up today and yes, I am somewhat anxious. However, in talking with her last night she wants very much for her and my relationship to get better; at the suggestion of her case manager she asked me if we could try therapy together again, which I totally support. We've tried that in the past but since she's been hospitalized and diagnosed; ADD, BPD, Bipolar II; and has done some group work she realizes that it isn't all me and hopefully we will have better success. Thank you, FF.

[formflier]

Important question!:

Have you and your husband had a discussion about your parenting styles with your daughters "team" or at least with a family therapist?

It's not about figuring out "right and wrong" or "good and bad", but with PDs and mental health challenges there can be so many nuances.

Perhaps something that is reasonable for a "normal" adult child, isn't for someone with your daughters issues.

I'm very glad you and your husband are having frank talks and realize that what you have been doing isn't getting you results you had hoped for...   

A million thumbs up for that!

Still...wouldn't it be wiser to bring in a fresh perspective?

Best,

FF

[wavewatcher]

Thanks- we will be seeing a family therapist recommended to us in our area. And our dd has her own therapist, as do I, so I feel we are on the right track. She really did find community in the hospital, which she needs. She came home last night and shared how she felt community with her unit, case manager, groups, etc. So she feels hospitalization was a good thing. Day by day.

[wavewatcher]

Oh my God. It was pretty good the last 5 days since her discharge from the hospital but it is so apparent that this was the calm before the storm. DD is downstairs screaming at the top of her lungs, hating me, hating everyone, out of control. What is the answer? Nothing helps. I am not a good mom to her. I've never had the inner resources to deal with her rage, anxiety, tantrums. Her father is with her, she's screaming at him, the potential for repeat violence is high, I've already said I would call the police again because she terrifies me. Now things are being broken downstairs. I go downstairs to help husband, she's holding broken glass going to cut herself, screaming at me grabs me husband grabs her I get the glass somehow get cut when will it end when will it end   

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Harri]

Hi wavewatcher.

I am so sorry this is such a rough and scary night for all of you.  I don't have answers for you unfortunately but I do care and I can listen.

How are you doing now?  Is your daughter safe?  Are you and your husband safe?

[wavewatcher]

Thank you Harri. Yes, it is morning. We are all safe but a sleepless night. I realize now, really know, that I can never be the mother she needs. I have seldom been able to understand her rages, since she was a child. She has had a great life. We've done so much together as a family. Perfect? No. My way of dealing with her when she wouldn't stop the tantrums, was to remove myself. Like my mother did with me and my siblings. Now I see she perceived this as abandonment. I have also said and done things I regret. But contrary to what she says, she was not an abused child. Her brother and her dad also know this. They also have said and done things they regret. We have all suffered. When she doesn't get her way, we pay. Has always been that way. But I am her target. And as long as she and I are living together, there will be drama. And I can't take it anymore. So I've come to the conclusion, and acceptance, that I am the one who must leave this house. I have choices. She does not. She can't hold a job, she can't live alone, she can't live with roommates. I never thought it would come to this. But I also feel a sense of peace with my decision. We live in a small community so finding a place will probably be difficult. I can't move away because I own my own business and have obligations. But she and I cannot live together. I have not told my husband this yet. I'm not looking to get divorced. But I see no other way.

[Harri]

Hi.

What sort of support do you have for you?  This is an incredibly stressful and distressing situation and having someone help you with coping and distressful reactions of our own is important so I am wondering what other supports you have (other than us that is  ).

I hear that you are able to see her point of view and how her emotional needs may not have been not as she was developing.  You are not alone in that.  So many parents here have said the same thing.  The thing is, as you learn better you can change things and that can improve things for you.   Seeing this is a huge step in the right direction for everyone.  It is not about blame but about understanding the situation.

How do you see moving out as a solution here?  How would it work? 

[livednlearned]

Hi wavewatcher,

Holy smokes. Moving out! That's a big decision to make in the middle of a serious crisis with DD. She's dysregulating and it's hard to think straight about anything when that's happening.
Your coping skill has been to remove yourself when there is overwhelming conflict and it makes sense that it's your go-to in this moment.

Is there a compromise, maybe a temporary time-out for yourself so you can get your bearings and decide from a composed place if this is the best decision?

Sometimes BPD sufferers will regress after experiencing success because they fear being abandoned when things go smoothly. This may or may not be an acting out (unconsciously) for DD as she attempts to regain some semblance of control, even though it's a terribly dysfunctional way to go about things 

I hope I am not overstepping by saying I see promising signs in what you write about DD even in the midst of her episode. She agreed with the BPD criteria and embraced her time in the hospital. She agreed to do DBT. These are significant wins in a very difficult relationship.

Your daughter may also be eligible for disability given her special needs. Is that something your family has looked into?

She seems to be looking desperately for boundaries, wanting someone to help hem her in.

It's exhausting, I know. Glad you have support here from people who know what it's like.

[formflier]

She seems to be looking desperately for boundaries, wanting someone to help hem her in.
 

I was thinking this as well.

Perhaps taking a break for a day or two, vice something permanent would help you gain perspective. 

Best,

FF

[twocrazycats]

Wavewatcher, I've been following along and keeping you and your family in my thoughts.

I'm glad things have stabilized as of your last post and agree with the others that maybe leaving the home temporarily for a few days, a week, might be best while you work on long term solutions.

I don't pretend to have advice, but just a few thoughts.

One of the books that I've found most helpful is Daniel Lobel's "When Your Daughter Has BPD." He has a section on the importance of husband and wife working as a unit to make decisions, especially regarding parenting. He calls it "communicating within the egg." He says that children with BPD often attempt to "scramble the egg," and triangulating is one way of doing it. Along the same line, people on this board often talk about the Karpman Triangle (there's a lot of information on the site; I don't know how to link it). As long as the three of you are in the house, it seems that you are fulfilling the role of persecutor. Your H is the rescuer, and the daughter is the victim. Looked at that way, removing yourself would ease that situation, and if it's temporary, it could give you and your husband a way to work together on stopping the triangle.

The only other thought I had is that your dd's rages sound so intense that I wonder if the rages themselves are more an effect of the Bipolar, even though her blaming and words sound like typical BPD? If so, could she need a change of medication or dosage, or, if she's not on any, maybe she needs it?

Mostly I'm thinking of you and concerned for the safety of all of you. Please keep posting. We are here for you.
2CC

[wavewatcher]

Thanks, all of you for your concern and valuable input. Where to start: first, I do not feel safe anymore in my own home. My hand started bleeding again today and I realized it wasn't from the glass it was her fingernails that she dug in so hard they cut deeply. She is on medication. But I can't see a difference. Yes she's going through Xanax withdrawals but the initial episode, the most violent happened before her hospitalization and subsequent removal from it. I have been disenchanted with her psychiatrist for some time but since she turned 18 we were not allowed to talk to him without her permission, which she would not give. Not paying his bills to get permission was out of the question because she has need medication for years. She's allowed her dad to talk to him for the last 6 months. I'm going to probably jump around here to hopefully address all of your thoughts, suggestions. I do have support. My best friend is always there for me, in fact I stayed with her the night dd attacked me. I have a therapist that I am seeing, although not as often as I'd like because of distance but I'm going to start initiating phone sessions. My husband can be supportive; he also receives her abuse but in the same breath he's making excuses for her behavior. I have read a lot of Lobel's book- that was the first one that really drove home what I'm dealing with. And she's a master at splitting and scrambling. The thing is, I've always tried to set boundaries with her. But since she was very young when she didn't get her way it would end up ugly. Sometimes my husband and I were on the same page and she would back down. But usually not before going full meltdown. Too often he gave in. I am not a perfect parent by any means at all and sometimes I could be inflexible. I just never understood, and still don't, how he has and does capitulate to her unreasonable demands. It's all the little things over the years; e.g., where we would eat out, even on Mother's Day had to meet her approval. This was my husband's and son's decisions to avoid conflict. Last night my husband was trying to set a boundary with her demands and doing a good job but then she became violent and it all fell apart. Perhaps I could leave temporarily but what I do know is that as long as he is alive she will always have a place to stay in our home, no matter what she does. And as long as she and I are living in the same space eventually she will get upset with me for saying the "wrong thing" and it starts all over again. And because she is violent with me now I do not feel safe. When she is in extreme dysregulation her eyes are full of hatred toward me and I know now what she is capable of.  Do I want to leave my home? No. But I can't trust her and I can't trust my husband to keep me safe. Do we just keep calling the police? Jail is not the answer. And yes, I think it is also Bipolar. I was surprised when she got that additional diagnosis from her Dr. at the hospital; I thought it was all BPD but I also now think it's a combination. They will be going to the city to see him next week; we will be letting him know how she is still so violent. I stay at work longer than necessary, and avoid being downstairs. I'm tired of being a prisoner in my own home. I need to live where I feel safe and not be surrounded by chaos and violence. She's 25 years old. We are in the process of getting her on Medicaid; hopefully we can now get her on disability. Before hospitalization she did not qualify because she can hold a job at times. But now, who knows. I am so tired of it all.

[PeaceMom]

WW,
I wanted to jump in and say that our personal experience w/DS BP1 Xanax withdrawal was UGLY.  Xanax is a horrible drug and creates an impossible anxiety loop which can make people absolutely nuts. Add in BP mania and BPD emotional dysregulation and you’ve got pure explosives.

I know I’m writing everything you are well aware of, but I am cheering you on. I understand the sheer complexity of your situation. There is no clear path thru this and Xanax withdrawal can take months to clear the system. I hate the drug. When we’ve been in high crisis mode, we’ve been advised to just take the next best step.

I’m glad to hear you have face to face support. Take care of you!

[formflier]

  Do we just keep calling the police? 

Can you help me understand how you think through the answer to this question?

Best,

FF

[livednlearned]

I can't trust her and I can't trust my husband to keep me safe.

I admire you for being able to make your safety a priority. It takes a lot of courage and can't be easy.

How is the topic of you moving out going down with your husband? Is he able to understand your position?

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[Harri]

This thread reached the post limit and has been split and locked.  The discussion continues here: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=342452.msg13096773#msg13096773

Thank you