Is this a sinking ship?

[meandmyfamily]

Hello, first post here.  I'm looking for guidance, it's been 6 months of a steadily worsening situation and I'm not sure if we have the tools to right the boat or if we are all in a sinking ship and just don't know it's going to sink yet.

6 months ago the wife and I brought a person into our lives, long story but basically she needed help and after discussing things we decided we were the right ones to help her.  She's 23 and at the time we didn't know she has BPD.  She's been in treatment several times so we both knew she was somewhat unstable, she overdosed on pills once a year ago.  She started seeing a therapist shortly after she moved in but we gradually came to lose confidence in the woman.  The therapist refused to meet with all 3 of us and clearly didn't have updated knowledge of BPD so eventually we found a new person who has experience and updated knowledge.  Our BPD has been seeing the new person for only a month, maybe 4 times so far but I already feel like the new therapist is much more effective than the old one and has even met with all 3 of us once already.

Now, the obvious issues...
If it were just me and the BPD I think I could manage.  She's an obvious handful, she has clear high's and lows and sometimes seems happy and normal and other times seems on the edge of going completely off the rails.  There have been a couple times in the past 6 months when I had to tell her to stop, go take a break and just basically say "I'm not dealing with you right now".  She isn't as severe as many cases I've read about, she can hold a full time job and function in groups and public and basically can manage all of life's necessities.  The problem is my wife is the target of BPD's issues.  

My wife travels a LOT for her job, over 30 weeks out of the year she's out of the house.  When she's home her and BPD mostly get along well but the minute she leaves for a trip things fall apart.  BPD gets insecure or gets upset for small things she perceives as slights by my wife.  BPD seems to have an idealized 'mother" in her mind and when my wife doesn't live up to that ideal BPD will do underhanded, hidden "mean" things to her.  It's hard to describe but it comes out in things she texts or emails, comments here and there.  It's exhausting and also very hurtful, it was my wife's idea to take BPD in and we have been as accommodating as we possibly could be.  Honestly, we have been better parents for BPD in the past 6 months than her bio parents have been for the past 22 years.

She's never overtly mean, she doesn't yell at either of us and is honestly one of the nicest, most caring people I've ever met (when she's in a good place).  She wants my wife and I to be her parents and calls (called) us 'mom' and 'dad'.  However, the conflict and chaos BPD creates when my wife leaves is really destroying things.  My wife and I argued more from sept to nov. than we did probably the past 10 years.  We are trying to turn things around, we are both reading more and trying to arm ourselves with knowledge and strategies that will help all 3 of us.  My wife and I started going to therapy because we realized our personal communication was failing, we started blaming each other for things (myself more than her) and overall we just began "giving in" to the stress BPD was creating.

This is a very, extremely abbreviated version of things  but I guess I'm mostly venting and also looking for anybody who has ever been in a similar situation.  I guess the closest "normal" thing would be 2 parents with a single adult child maybe?  Or a couple with no kids but who have a BPD relative?  I don't know, I know our situation is unique but there has to be somebody who has a BPD in their lives and can give me something, even if it's just empathy and letting me know my wife and I are not alone.  

Thank you for reading and listening.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pursuingJoy]

meandmyfamily, welcome to bpdfamily!   We are all here with slightly differing stories but I have no doubt that you'll find support and understanding.

Great step in seeking therapy. Do you anticipate this being a long term living situation, or is it temporary in any way? Long term and temporary carry two very different sets of expectations for me.

It sounds like your pwBPD feels intense need to be loved and cared for. Of course you already know that you won't be able to singlehandedly fill all of those needs. It's interesting that she acts out just as your wife leaves. Maybe fears of abandonment are kicking in each time? I know some people here have had luck with reassuring their BPD in similar situations.

I can imagine that it would be a huge challenge to see your wife become a target. While my situation is different in that my pwBPD is my MIL, I can absolutely, 100% relate to the level of stress their dysregulation can cause on a marriage. My H and I are also in marriage counseling after a period of bitter fighting over his mom.

You and your wife are not at all alone. Share more when you can.

pj

[Harri]

Hi!  I want to join PJ inn welcoming you to the site.  Youa re in the right place to talk about your situation and, even better, learn tools and strategies that can help you and your wife and can possibly help your pwBPD (person with BPD) cope better.

It is great and quite loving that you took her in even knowing some of the challenges involved.  It does sound like fear of abandonment is kicking in.  That can show in a lot of different ways and there can also be a lot of push/pull behavior as well. 

Given your situation, I think you might get the best help in learning the tools on our Bettering a Relationship board.  I am not saying you are not welcome here though as you are.  I think you might get more benefit at the other board because that is where the relationship tools are talked about more in depth.  So I am going to move your thread there and you can see how it goes.

There is a lot of reading material to look at too.  One place to start is here:  The Do's and Don'ts in a BPD Relationship  I hope you share more of your story, read and ask questions and jump into posts that interest you.

Again,

[formflier]

I want to join pursuing joy  and Harri in welcoming you to these forums.
 
We get it.  We get the odd behaviors and very likely have some strategies to help.

It would seem that your pwBPD doesn't like to be "abandoned" (when you wife goes on a trip).

Have you found ways of relating that make this worse or better?

I'm so glad you found us.  Looking forward to learning more about your story.

Best,

FF

[meandmyfamily]

To add more details, my wife and I are reading as much as we possibly can and with every new thing we learn we are seeing how many mistakes we made at the start of this endeavor.  I’m mainly guilty of trying to be a rescuer who managed to constantly and consistently reinforce negative behavior.  I would always try to make bpd feel better when she was spiraling, try to be a “fixer” and while I obviously thought I was helping I was just adding to the issues.

My wife has a sibling who was diagnosed with narcissist disorder and growing up her life was pretty bad, her parents blamed her for the sibling issues and also had issues with her showing emotions so this has brought back years of stress and issues she had tried to forget.  I really feel that my wife would benefit from some sort of ptsd therapy treatment but I can’t force her to do anything. 

The biggest issue is BPD has a way of highlighting my wife’s insecurities and making her feel inadequate and generally feeling that she’s never good enough.  She’s reached her breaking point and when she’s away has implemented a no contact policy to protect herself.  It’s so bad that she dreads coming home.

I’m stuck in the middle.  I obviously love my wife, she’s the most important person in the world for me.  We don’t have kids and never will, neither of us is physically able (hysterectomy and sperm count issue). Neither of us ever thought bringing BPD into our lives would be easy but I really thought this was fate giving us a chance to experience having a child, even if it was an already adult child.

  BPD calls us mom and dad and in a very real way we have been a more caring and understanding family than her bio people.  She has a full time job but it’s entry level and not enough for money for her to afford to live on her own.  Her bio family would probably take her in but that’s a nightmare for BPD that none of us want.  She’s experienced so much neglect and rejection and abandonment that my wife could never kick her out, even though BPD is making her miserable. 

I fell terrible and my heart breaks for both of them.  I love BPD and she’s managed to fill in a missing space I didn’t know was missing, it honestly brings tears to my eyes hearing her call me “dad”.  At the same time I can’t have my wife feeling awful and stressed in her own home.

Have any of you had this type of 3 way relationship where the BPD really only affected 1 other person?  I originally posted this in the Family member section because bpd is kind of our adult daughter.

[meandmyfamily]

I guess one other thing to add and ask is this, our BPD is seeing a therapist who seems up to date on her knowledge and methods, she’s familiar with cbt and dbt therapy’s.  Is there hope for an enjoyable future or is this doomed?  Will we ever be able to fix things or will the only thing to fix the situation be our BPD moving out? 

[Harri]

Hi again.

Thanks for sharing more about your situation.  That is a very difficult situation for all of you.  I do think things can improve.  I also think it will take a lot of hard work and time to get there but it can be done.  We have seen situations turn around before. 

Each of you will have different struggles to deal with.  It is good though that you are reading and trying to find solutions with your wife.  The tools we offer here will help in all relationships.  We have a lot of rescuers here too  and it is good you can see that in yourself and know it needs to change.

Some times it helps for us, the people who do not have BPD, to learn DBT skills to help us communicate with pwBPD as they learn them.  We have a lot of tools we offer here on the site and many of them are DBT based.  Have you had a chance to look at this:  Hot to get the most out of this site

Have you had a chance to read the one I linked above?

[pursuingJoy]

meandmyfamily, there is hope. If you check out the link that Harri shared in her most recent post, there's a link to success stories. It's inspiring!

Can you tell me more about why you feel like you're in the middle? that can feel miserable. Is the conflict primarily between your pwBPD and your wife, and you feel torn between them?

I encourage my husband frequently that our marriage, if healthy, will center the people and things around us. Would it help you to feel a little less 'in the middle' to continue to, and simply focus on your relationship with your wife for the moment? I know you care deeply about your daughter (I have an unofficial adopted mom, we dropped the 'adopted' a long time ago   ), but she needs the stability your marriage can offer. It benefits all to strengthen your marriage. Of course I know you know this because you're in therapy and you're both owning your pieces and it sounds like you communicate well.

I so understand how BPD can be triggering to non's. I read somewhere that BPD's feel so deeply, it almost seems like they have a superpower to understand and read other people's triggers.   I know this is true for my BPD MIL and me.

[meandmyfamily]

Since I last posted things have gotten infinitely worse.  For a very short few days things were looking good.  My wife was talking with BPD, they were getting along, everything seemed good.  Maybe that was too much for BPD, maybe she truly cannot handle feeling "good", I really do not know. 

She went on a first date with a guy she met on a dating app and ended up going home with him and having sex for the first time ever.  As if this wasn't bad enough, it was unprotected so she had to get Plan B and now needs to get tested for STD's.  To top off everything else, when she saw her therapist the next day the therapist  specifically told her NOT to talk about this with us.

So what does she do?  She tells my wife about it as soon as she gets home from the therapist and then later sends me a text telling me about it.  The problem is neither story was the same, and it wasn't what she told the therapist so none of us really knows what happened.

My wife spoke with the therapist on the phone and I think this time BPD has finally crossed a line.  My wife is unable to forgive her and wants her out of the house immediately.  I'm sick to my stomach and feel like a crushing weight of despair is sitting on my chest. 

I had fantasies of things in the future, BPD voluntarily moving out and living a life and visiting us and everything would be good.  Now all I see in my future is despair and darkness.  I still love BPD and don't want our relationship to end but I don't know how that's going to be possible with my wife feeling the way she does. 

I think the ship has cracked in two, I'm now floating in the ocean hanging onto a piece of wood and about to drown.  I'm terrified that BPD will attempt suicide again.  I'm terrified that my wife and I may eventually separate because of this. 

[pursuingJoy]

meandmyfamily, I've been wondering how you've been! 

My wife spoke with the therapist on the phone and I think this time BPD has finally crossed a line. 

Can you tell me a little more why this was the final straw?

I'm terrified that my wife and I may eventually separate because of this. 

I can so relate to this fear. Can you talk through what the conflicts look like with your wife? What are the primary points of contention that might lead to separation?

I'm terrified that BPD will attempt suicide again.

I can relate to this too. My D16 had one suicide attempt two years ago.

As with any child, the goal is to promote independence and individuality. If the goal was that she would eventually move out anyway, is it possible for you and your wife to develop a timeline as to when that would happen (protect your marriage first) and take reasonable steps to ensure that BPD feels less abandoned, more supported? The challenge would then be for all three of you to follow through on the timeline.

I know you feel like you're drifting but it's extremely rare to be completely powerless in any situation. When I feel powerless and lost, it always helps me to identify what I can control.

We're here.
pj

[meandmyfamily]

My wife literally hates bpd now.  She feels exploited and used and cannot forgive bpd anymore.  I can’t explain more than that because it’s pointless, my wife has made it clear that she’s done trying.  Their relationship is 100% over, there’s no coming back from what’s happened.

I’m afraid that either I’m going to resent my wife for forcing me to end the relationship or she’s going to resent me for continuing to have a relationship with bpd. 

I’m sitting here having a full blown panic attack.  Bpd has no close friends, her blood family doesn’t really like her, we were basically her last best chance at change and now I feel like we are abandoning her. 

I see no way forward, I see no future that ends in anything other than heartache and despair for all 3 of us.  Honestly at this point the best case scenario I can see is bpd just leaving and never talking to either of us again.  That would break my heart but at least it would be over. 

[meandmyfamily]

This is it, this is how my marriage ends.  Yesterday my wife had a full blow up with BPD, everyone was yelling, bpd was crying, I was crying.  Now today my wife asked me to completely cut ties with bpd.  I was the last person in her life, the only person who hasn’t yet abandoned her and now my wife is asking me to do that.

Wife called while I was in the car and I told her ok, I’ll go tell bpd  now.  I had to pull over and stop for at least a half hour because I had a full blown panic attack, worse than before.  I do t know how we ever reconcile this.  My wife is angry with me for having a reaction, I think she honestly thought I’d be ok with cutting out bpd. 

If I do it I’m afraid I’ll resent my wife, maybe not right away but eventually.  If I don’t do it she’s going to resent me.  There’s no way out, things are ending for me and there’s nothing I can do to stop it.

[pursuingJoy]

How are you feeling today?

we were basically her last best chance at change and now I feel like we are abandoning her  

One of the biggest challenges in relationships with pwBPD is feeling that we are their last hope. I'm sure you've read other threads here to (1) realize that you're not alone in feeling this way and (2) it's usually not the case. Even pwBPD can and should be held accountable for their actions in relationships. So often we think they're incapable, but when we set a boundary, they find a way to survive and meet their needs.

Honestly at this point the best case scenario I can see is bpd just leaving and never talking to either of us again.  That would break my heart but at least it would be over.  

It sounds like you feel genuinely torn between choosing BPD or your wife, they they have an equal share of your affection and heart. Is that accurate?

If I do it I’m afraid I’ll resent my wife, maybe not right away but eventually.  If I don’t do it she’s going to resent me.  There’s no way out, things are ending for me and there’s nothing I can do to stop it.

Let's find a way to explore the gray matter between the extremes. I believe you mentioned in one of your first posts that you and your wife are in therapy. Are you still seeing a therapist? It would be a good space to talk through how you're both feeling and what you're experiencing. And of course keep posting here and get your thoughts out. We're here.