Just had a phone conversation with S5’s mom

[JNChell]

We’ve not talked on the phone for two years. Just hung up with her after a 45 minute conversation. I’m questioning myself and my perceptions of the relationship. I asked her to tell me everything that I did wrong. I didn’t fight back, I just took it in. I understand everything that she told me. I’m glad that she did and she explained to me how it made her feel. I came here thinking that she was the problem. I don’t think that’s the case. The person that I just talked to is level and happy. She was assertive, but very kind. Was all of this me projecting? The whole relationship?

The conversation wasn’t a negotiated type conversation. I wanted it to be one sided for her and her feelings so that I could understand her perspective. Everything she said is accurate, looking back.

I believe that my mental block from everyone and their thoughts was pretty thick. I couldn’t really see things for what they were. I could only judge and react through a distorted lens. I didn’t know.

It felt so good to hear her voice. To talk to her. She’s happy and I’m glad about that. But I am questioning myself now. Am I properly diagnosed? Is it just C-PTSD, or does it go deeper?

It is trauma. From what S5’s mom told me, I’m able to recognize that I was never really able to be there for her. And that part really hurts to look at.

She may not even be what I’ve suspected. This could all be on me. My anxiety and confusion. My own distorted thinking. My shortcomings and projecting them onto her. I’m sure that this went back and forth, but I don’t know who was triggered first. What set it in motion.

[l8kgrl]

It sounds like even though you had a calm conversation with her, it was unsettling to you because it caused you to question yourself. That's understandable. If your ex is even remotely like mine, she may be VERY good at sounding so sane, calm, reasonable, etc when she wants to.

What were you hoping to get out of this conversation, besides hearing her side of things?

I don't know the particulars of your r/s and what went down, but I'm not one who believes that very many things are black and white (isn't that what we criticize people with BPD for, seeing things as only one way or another? when really most things in life are gray?)
 
What is it about this conversation that makes you feel like what she said is the "truth"?

[JNChell]

I can remember her reactions. I wasn’t very emotionally available to her. She seems to be very happy now. She said that she’s treated well by her BF. I’m happy for her for that. One thing she told me is that she mirrors a love interest. She certainly does this, but it was really something to hear her say it. She sees a therapist twice a month and is on medication. She said that she’s happier than she’s ever been. She was never snide or snarky, and I asked her to tell me everything that I did wrong. I think that she deserves that dumping ground. I can’t have that same courtesy, but if it helps out with S5, so be it. I’m happy to take one for the team.

She does sound well, though. I’m happy for her. When we were together, I didn’t know about listening with empathy and things like that. I used that tool genuinely within our conversation, and progress was made. If I’d only known more back then.

I guess that I’m feeling a lot of guilt right now. She did say that she could be very mean to me, but it was because of my actions. She also said that she constantly apologized. This part I honestly don’t remember happening.

I don’t know. I’m just hoping that she and I are on our way to making amends.

[l8kgrl]

So how do you feel about all this?

2 years is a long time not to have talked...this must be a lot to process?

[Turkish]

This is a good step in improving your r/s with her which is ultimately better for the three of you.  I would take this as it is and not pursue this avenue further: for you, and the sake of your little boy. It's a stepping stone into a better future.

[JNChell]

It is, but it seemingly happened at the right time. I’m processing a whole lot right now, so why not throw that in the mix?

I guess that the whole experience makes me miss her, really. The little family. Her. See, I think that I need to question myself and hold myself accountable. Regardless of a condition/s, I have responsibilities attached to our outcome. It’s not all on her. I could’ve done better and been wiser. Instead, I was wrapped up in my own head.

[JNChell]

Thank you, Turkish. I hope so.

[Turkish]

I still kind of miss my kids' mom, and she left in 2013, and our home in early 2014. It's ok to feel that. 

[JNChell]

Yeah, I suppose. I’m not quite sure if it’s her, or the idea of a family. She had to end the call because dinner was ready. I’m not there to help with that.

[Panda39]

Hi JNChell,

Also, keep in mind that we all have our own perception of the same experience.

Riding down rapids in a raft could be exciting to one person and terrifying to the person sitting next to them.

My guess is that if a third party was watching you and your ex together they would have a totally different perspective of what was going on.

It takes 2 to tango, don't own things that aren't yours to own...vilify yourself and don't give her all the credit...idealize her.  The good and the bad belong to you both.

I agree it's okay to miss what you had and also know that it didn't work out.

I will always care about my ex-husband but that doesn't mean we are good together.

Sending you 
Panda39

[l8kgrl]

Wise words from Panda.

I've been divorced 4 years, apart 5. I have no desire to be back with my ex, but I still get a pang at times, and I will always be sad about the loss of my family. It's like a person dying - the grief may change over time but it doesn't disappear entirely.

[JNChell]

Thanks for dropping by, Panda39. I understand what you’re saying. Maybe it was a mistake for me to open myself up to her. I guess that I just feel this obligation to right my wrongs any way that I can. You’re right, we didn’t work out. The farther I go down this road of healing from trauma, I’m having trouble with reality, in a sense. I’m not sure where I was wronged, or if it’s simply a perception due to the trauma. My inability to trust my gut. I’m fairly certain that my instincts are in tact, but after talking with S5’s mom, I just don’t really know. Did I slip into an old familiar place with her? Or did I hear about a reality that I was unable to see before? Know what I mean? Regardless, I laid myself at her feet and let her explain things to me. Right or wrong, I know how she feels/felt and I think that’s important in moving forward.

[daze507]

I also think it's a very good thing that you could have had a peaceful conversation with her and learn more about her perspective, I really think communication is primordial.
I would personally give a lot to be given such an opportunity as I am sure it would allow me to move on but that will never happen and I have to live with that.

[JNChell]

daze, my ex and I share a young child. Be grateful that you’re not tied to your ex in that way. You have the freedom to stay, and more importantly, the freedom to go. You are not tied to her in any way other than you choose to be. You can move around the world with your freedom. You can experience new things and people. As it is, you are only tied to your pwBPD as long as you allow yourself to be. 

[Harri]

JNChell, good for you for being open to hearing all of that. 

I couldn’t really see things for what they were. I could only judge and react through a distorted lens. I didn’t know.

Have you ever heard of the outer critic?  Over on the PSI board we spend a lot of time talking about the inner critic and almost no time talking about the outer critic.  It can be a tough thing to read about, never mind accept.  Pete Walker discusses the outer critic in the following article:    SHRINKING THE OUTER CRITIC IN COMPLEX PTSD East Bay Therapist , Oct 2009 By Pete Walker

[JNChell]

Thanks, Harri. I’ll be re-reading that. I’m not as familiar with the Outer, as the Inner. I think that I should look more closely at that. One part that sticks out is that the Outer Critic is triggered. At least in the context of C-PTSD.

Honestly, listening to her explain things to me was a weight lifting off of me. Hopefully for her as well.

Thank you for the article.

[daze507]

daze, my ex and I share a young child. Be grateful that you’re not tied to your ex in that way. You have the freedom to stay, and more importantly, the freedom to go. You are not tied to her in any way other than you choose to be. You can move around the world with your freedom. You can experience new things and people. As it is, you are only tied to your pwBPD as long as you allow yourself to be.  Virtual hug (click to insert in post)

You're perfectly right JNChell and somebody told me the same thing when I said I wish it had lasted longer.

[once removed]

Also, keep in mind that we all have our own perception of the same experience.

Riding down rapids in a raft could be exciting to one person and terrifying to the person sitting next to them.

My guess is that if a third party was watching you and your ex together they would have a totally different perspective of what was going on.

It takes 2 to tango, don't own things that aren't yours to own...vilify yourself and don't give her all the credit...idealize her.  The good and the bad belong to you both.

i really love this take.

i think understanding, as best i could, the perspective of my ex, was invaluable to my recovery. getting a sense of where she was coming from helped me understand a whole lot of the "why" and how we ended up as we did. it challenged, and informed my own perspective.

it doesnt mean i (we) have to agree with any of it. and it doesnt mean its "correct".

its just one (important) piece of a bigger puzzle.

if you look back at your posts since you came here JNChell, you will see that you perspective has grown and evolved, it has become more nuanced, and has far more shades of grey.

this can inform that. evolve it further. build on your detachment.

but this was a broken relationship, not meant to be. two people own that.

[JNChell]

I agree that that is a great analogy. I haven’t read back for some time, but I can remember a lot of it. How I was feeling, the low altitude that I saw things from. The black and white perspective. As bad as some of this feels at times, some aspects are feeling very good. It’s kind of like all of these jumbled thoughts and emotions are finally coming together and starting to make sense in a logical way, not simply in a fashion to soothe me in the moment, but for the long haul. A new sense of maturity, I suppose.

I’ll keep pushing on and evolving the best that I can. What else am I gonna do? Lol! I’m too invested to turn away. As always, thank you.

[once removed]

mindfulness teaches us to see our own feelings from a more detached perspective.

i always felt that Detaching involves seeing our own feelings from a detached perspective, seeing our exs feelings from a detached perspective, and seeing that third party (or fourth, or fifth, or 500th) take from a detached perspective.

the more youre able to take them all in, the more detached you are. the more youre able to consider them all, the closer you get to the objective truth.