Need Help and Understanding with Relationship

[Nala2020]

Greetings -

I am in a relationship (temporarily separated) with someone with BPD (I think) and really need some guidance/support. 

We have been together for about 2 years (have known each other much longer - more than 10 years).  My partner's ex (they were together 14 years and are still very close friends) told me last summer that my partner had been diagnosed with BPD previously.  This came up after a particularly violent episode when I was trying to make sense of things.  At the time, I didn't think that much about the diagnosis or understand BPD and didn't do any research.  I just kept thinking we were going through a rough patch and things would get better because the first 8 months of our relationship were mostly blissful.

Fast forward, a year later, we're still on the same roller coaster.  No violence and less anger after making it clear that I would walk away if physical violence happened, but I feel crazy half the time - can't figure out what I'm doing wrong and I never know when the other shoe is going to drop.  The smallest things (in my opinion) drive immense overreactions.  The fights have become more frequent.  I will think that things are going well, and then out of the blue, she's angry and upset with me for something I did.  I am so confused and trying to figure out if it's my fault or what part is my fault (what's real vs. what she's telling me).  I love her very much and I do think she's a good person, but she has had a lot of trauma and loss in her life when she was young (not sure if that's related).  We recently separated to take time to think about what we both want.

In early August, she called me upset and wanted to move in with me immediately (within 30 days) or she said the relationship was over (this was out of the blue after not talking to me for over a month because she told me I needed to go fix my issues - that I am controlling, negative and nagging).  Then only a few days later, we got into an argument over something minor and she broke up with me.  She's "broken up" with me on a regular basis in the last year, but never actually meant it and then acts like it never happened a few days later.  I couldn't understand how someone could one moment want to move in and get married immediately despite our issues and then the next moment when she was upset with me, wanted nothing more to do with me.  It's like she's two different people.  I never know which one I'm going to get.  There's no consistency and I constantly am having whiplash trying to keep up with where we are.

I started researching BPD this week and it was like an "ahah" moment.  I wanted to talk through some of the things I'd experienced and see if sounds like she does in fact BPD.  I'm not psychologist and I'm not looking to blame her.  I'm just trying to understand if this is what I'm dealing with, and if so, how do I get her to realize this if she doesn't think she has a problem?  She'll acknowledge on a good day that she has abandonment issues, trust issues, insecurity issues and anger issues, but she always rationalizes those things because she'll say that they only come out when someone else has done something to trigger her.

I know most people would and have told me to just walk away, but I love her, and if there is anything I can do, I want to try.

Thanks for any help/advice!
PP

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[bated]

Hi @Nala2020,

Welcome! There is a lot of useful information on this site but it can be hard to find.  I would start here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334610.0

Best of luck.

[DS2020]

Hi Nala, I'm no psychologist either, but the things you describe seem textbook to me, and very similar to the things I have experienced with my wife for years. The rage incidents, followed by pretending nothing ever happened is something I have seen hundreds of times. What always bothered me was that there was almost never an apology, no matter how awful or inappropriate the behavior. Also the childhood trauma is very typical. Good luck! And yes, I am also finding there are great resources on here.

[Nala2020]

Hi Nala, I'm no psychologist either, but the things you describe seem textbook to me, and very similar to the things I have experienced with my wife for years. The rage incidents, followed by pretending nothing ever happened is something I have seen hundreds of times. What always bothered me was that there was almost never an apology, no matter how awful or inappropriate the behavior. Also the childhood trauma is very typical. Good luck! And yes, I am also finding there are great resources on here.

@DS2020 - it's nice to hear other people having similar experiences.  Does your wife recognize that she likely has BPD or how do you handle?  I'm struggling with how to get my SO to acknowledge she needs help.  Occasionally, she'll tell me, on her own, that she thinks she needs to go to therapy, but then she never actually does.  If I push it, she just thinks I'm controlling, so I know it has to be her idea and not mine.

[Nala2020]

Hi @Nala2020,

Welcome! There is a lot of useful information on this site but it can be hard to find.  I would start here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=334610.0

Best of luck.

@bated - thank you.  I will start looking through this.

[DS2020]

Nala, what you describe is very similar to what I have experienced in my 20 year marriage (though my wife recently moved out). Up until these last few weeks, there were probably only one or two times that she actually verbally acknowledged her BPD. Up until now, the 2 or 3 times she did counseling it sounded like she would address other issues like her anxiety or her concerns about the marriage. And even when she did acknowledge the BPD it was not something we could never have a discussion about. She would always change the subject or get angry. And yes, trying to push her to therapy always was met with resistance.

My wife is actually going to attend therapy today and I believe she is going to actually address her BPD. We will see. It actually required her to sort of hit a new bottom and come to the realization on her own. It became harder and harder for her to deny. One thing you might consider is your own therapist and find one that has a lot of familiarity with BPD. Not only will your partner see that you are attending therapy and perhaps want to make similar cooperative efforts, but your T may give helpful strategies to you. In my situation, while I am hoping for a reconciliation, I also will need to know that my wife is committed to embracing ongoing treatment for that to be a reality. I discussed this with my T and we both agreed that ultimatums are typically not received well. She suggested that if and when the time is right, I say something like "I am going to ongoing therapy and it is very helpful. It helps me to understand things much better..." and just see if she responds. If not, perhaps gently ask to see if she is interested in doing something similar. Hope that helps a little bit. It is definitely a challenge.

[Nala2020]

Nala, what you describe is very similar to what I have experienced in my 20 year marriage (though my wife recently moved out). Up until these last few weeks, there were probably only one or two times that she actually verbally acknowledged her BPD. Up until now, the 2 or 3 times she did counseling it sounded like she would address other issues like her anxiety or her concerns about the marriage. And even when she did acknowledge the BPD it was not something we could never have a discussion about. She would always change the subject or get angry. And yes, trying to push her to therapy always was met with resistance.

My wife is actually going to attend therapy today and I believe she is going to actually address her BPD. We will see. It actually required her to sort of hit a new bottom and come to the realization on her own. It became harder and harder for her to deny. One thing you might consider is your own therapist and find one that has a lot of familiarity with BPD. Not only will your partner see that you are attending therapy and perhaps want to make similar cooperative efforts, but your T may give helpful strategies to you. In my situation, while I am hoping for a reconciliation, I also will need to know that my wife is committed to embracing ongoing treatment for that to be a reality. I discussed this with my T and we both agreed that ultimatums are typically not received well. She suggested that if and when the time is right, I say something like "I am going to ongoing therapy and it is very helpful. It helps me to understand things much better..." and just see if she responds. If not, perhaps gently ask to see if she is interested in doing something similar. Hope that helps a little bit. It is definitely a challenge.

@DS2020 - your thoughts/advice are helpful.  I actually have been seeing a T since January of this year.  Now, she doesn't specialize in BPD because I just realized that this is likely what my G is dealing with recently.  Last year, we had a very physical episode (she got super angry when drinking and became physically abusive).  I left the situation that evening.  I told her that I would consider giving her another chance, but that I would not ever tolerate that behavior again and I would leave.  Since then, nothing like that has happened again.  The anger is still very much there, but not to the point of physical violence.  Of course, I'm always worried that one night, one too many drinks, and something could happen.

When that happened, I told her that I wouldn't be around her when she was drinking, and that I really thought she should talk to a counselor.  At first she balked at all that (didn't want to be controlled/told what to do), but then I think she was worried about losing me, so she stopped drinking around, very briefly - like 2 to 3 weeks.  She said she would start counseling and that she agreed she needed to address her anger issues (she has suffered a lot of loss and trauma before and she acknowledges that).  She still hasn't and that's been more than a year.  We went to one couples' counseling session last year - I thought if I could at least get her to couples' counseling, maybe something would come up to get her to go to an individual counselor.  She wouldn't go back after the first session.  I started going to my own T in January, again, I thought maybe that would help get her to also go to counseling.  She said she was proud of me for going and that she too wanted to go, but then it's been one excuse after the other, and if I bring it up, she thinks I'm being pushy.

I got her to agree to try couples' counseling again this year in May.  I found a counselor (she didn't like the previous one).  I was about to schedule our first session with the new counselor, and she got upset with me about a question I asked (said that I was being negative, nagging and controlling because I asked her a question about something she had done that morning), and then said that she wouldn't consider couples' counseling anymore until I fixed all of my issues first.  That we could not be in a relationship until I fixed my issues.  I tried to talk to her - she wouldn't.  I didn't hear from her for almost two months, and then she called me crying and upset and wanted me back.  Not only did she want me back, she wanted to move in with my immediately.  When I pushed back on that (because we have things to work through first), she accused me of not being ready for a serious relationship or actually caring about her.  We were supposed to have a talk, but before we could do that, she got upset again about something (I was too needy and immature because I called her to talk about my family).  It's just this constant rollercoaster.

I remembered that her ex had once told me about the BPD.  So, I recently started researching, and the more I've read, the more certain I am that she either has BPD or has a majority of the traits.  She's very high functioning.  She maintains a job and she treats most other people in her life, very well.  I don't know if the BPD was an actual diagnosis when she did briefly go to counseling when she was younger or if that was the ex's personal assessment.  The point being - I don't know if my G actually has been told before that she has BPD.  She knows she has jealousy issues, insecurity issues, anger issues (although, she does not recognize the extent even after our incident - she barely remembers it) and abandonment issues, but I doubt she would actually think she has a disorder.  She actually seems more interested in my mental health.  I've told her that I struggle with anxiety, but she thinks I'm not telling her everything.  Just recently, she asked me if I was bipolar (and she always insists she's not bipolar - even though I've never said that she was and don't actually think that she is).  I talked to my T about it, and she says she sees nothing about me that would indicate I'm bipolar - she thinks it's some type of protection.  My G is very intelligent, but she doesn't realize that she reacts so differently and more emotionally than most people.

I recognize that I can't tell her that she likely has BPD, if she hasn't been told that before, but I think she would only go to counseling if she really thought she was going to lose me - not because she thinks it would help her, and I recognize that is also not good.  I feel like I can't ever have an open and honest conversation with her because she gets too defensive, then upset, then angry.  After the physical incident, I tried to explain to her that it scared me, and she just said that I was being too negative and that my emotional abuse of her was way worse than anything she did physically to me, which makes no sense.

She has decide that she is working on herself right now.  She has been going to church on a regular basis, doing a devotional and reading her Bible.  I certainly tell some improvements, but I obviously still think she needs therapy.  If she doesn't want it or think she needs it, then I don't know what else to do.  She blames every failed relationship she has had on the other person - she tells me that everyone before me was just like me, too stubborn and never willing to admit fault.  However, she did have one very long term, 15 year, relationship, so that baffles me.  I do think that person was better at setting boundaries that I was when we first started seeing each other.  I'm just at a complete loss for what to do or how to make things better.  I'm trying not to give up hope because I do love and care about her very much.  I don't know what she's feeling or if she at all recognizes that she can't regulate her emotions.  The cycle just keeps continuing.  She gets upset with me about something that I say or do (can be not returning a text for 15 minutes or not being appreciate enough of a message she sent me), then she gets upset and angry.  We can't discuss it because to her, that is just me making excuses for my behavior.  She is only concerned about me admitting fault, apologizing and agreeing to change.  At that point, she ceases communication with me, and then I'll usually hear from her a week late.  She'll act like nothing happened and that will continue for maybe a week, and then something I do triggers her and we repeat.  My friends think I'm torturing myself by continuing to live in this chaos.  To some degree they are right, but now that I understand it better, I realize that my G isn't doing that to be manipulative.  I just don't know how to get out of this pattern.

[DS2020]

Nala, I hear you, all of these things sound very familiar to me. How old is she now? I did see gradual improvement with my BPD wife, but I had to really look at it over the long term to see the improvement. I think the big aha moment for her was when she became concerned about how our kids would perceive her and I also basically said I had had enough. Up until this recent sudden crisis, things had improved considerably. My wife is 47. And today after her first therapy session in years, she was a completely different person, loves her therapist, readily admits her BPD and her other issues, states she is committed to doing the hard work, so we will see. It was only one visit, but there is reason for hope. The frustrating thing is there is only so much you can do. Setting boundaries does seem to be important. Not sure how attached you are to your T, but my T's mother was a pwBPD, so I think that was a big plus.

[Nala2020]

Nala, I hear you, all of these things sound very familiar to me. How old is she now? I did see gradual improvement with my BPD wife, but I had to really look at it over the long term to see the improvement. I think the big aha moment for her was when she became concerned about how our kids would perceive her and I also basically said I had had enough. Up until this recent sudden crisis, things had improved considerably. My wife is 47. And today after her first therapy session in years, she was a completely different person, loves her therapist, readily admits her BPD and her other issues, states she is committed to doing the hard work, so we will see. It was only one visit, but there is reason for hope. The frustrating thing is there is only so much you can do. Setting boundaries does seem to be important. Not sure how attached you are to your T, but my T's mother was a pwBPD, so I think that was a big plus.

@DS2020 - She is 55.  She said she did some limited therapy in her 20s, I think (could have been 30s).  I've known her for about 10 years.  We have dated for about 2 of those 10 years.  Never once in the 8 years that we were friends did I ever suspect anything like BPD.  I knew she had some anger issues - she never had gotten angry with me before, but I had seen her trigger and go off on other friends before a few times.  Those times always involved lots of drinking, so I just thought she had general anger issues that was made worse by alcohol, but I didn't see it very often.  Usually, she's the center of the party, fun and happy.  It just flips in an instance, and then it's like, where did the other person go?  It wasn't immediately apparent to me in our relationship at all either.  For the first 6 to 8 months, things were mostly great.  It was almost exactly at the moment that we decided that we were going to be in a committed relationship, that things changed drastically.  The jealousy is what started first.  I was always been accused of flirting with someone (she even accused me of kissing my first cousin one weekend).  Now, I know I'm responsible for some of that because we didn't probably set expectations when we made our commitment, and I know I changed the way I wanted some things.  That said, once we were committed and spending a lot of time together things just progressively got worse and then the pattern continued no matter how many different ways I tried doing things.  I didn't at all understand why I was mishandling the situation until recently.  Nothing made sense.  I'm a pretty analytical (perhaps too analytical) person and I couldn't rationalize this in any way.  I acknowledge that I get frustrated easily, I have my own anxiety and I do have some tenancies to want to get my way (only child stuff).

She had some loss in her life early on and some sexual abuse.  I don't think she ever dealt with any of that (she will admit that as much on occasion - she says she's forgiven the person, but I can tell that the pain is still there).  At first, I thought she was perhaps narcissistic because she always seemed entitled and controlling (and lacked empathy, but only lacked empathy when she was unhappy - not all the time), but the more I read, I realized that she might have some of those traits, but that's not what is driving the behavior primarily.

I haven't let her move in with me because I didn't feel safe completely.  I knew that if I was at her house, I could always leave.  The other thing that really bothers me is her drinking.  When we first got together, I drank just as much and was a big part of the problem with our fighting because I didn't have control over my emotions either, to some degree, and I was being way too sensitive often.  I do rarely lose my temper, but I can get upset easily and cry if I think someone has hurt my feelings.  However, I have significantly cut back on my drinking and haven't had anything to drink around her the last few times we've hung out so that I could maintain better control (I would still get frustrated with her because her behavior was so erratic to me).  The less I've been drinking, the more of a problem I can see the drinking is for her.  She has learned the ability to calm down and take a step back when she's sober, but if she's drinking, she has zero control.  She'll regret what she did the next day, but it just happens all over again.  She drinks every single night, and on weekends, will sometimes drink all day.

I absolutely did not set the right boundaries (or hardly any) for the last year except with the physical violence.  I partially didn't know how and I partially was afraid of pushing her away or her leaving.  I just gradually withdrew from the relationship, emotionally - which she also saw as abandonment and that I was being emotionally abusive by withdrawing my affection.  I would try to explain things and talk to her, but I could tell, it didn't matter at all what I said.  She was not changing her mind and wasn't even listening.  I had a hard time being affectionate and loving when most of the time she was telling me how horrible I was, and I was taking it incredibly personally.  Things started to click the more I've read about BDP (I always said things were black and white to her, and that she made facts fits her emotions, but I didn't know what that meant or why).

I like my therapist a lot, and we now have a good relationship with 9 months invested.  However, I think I should probably talk to someone at least for a session or two about BPD specifically.  I'm reading a book right now about BPD that has been recommended to learn to start responding differently.  My G has probably broken up with me 40 times in the last year, but doesn't actually mean it, and then acts like she never said it.  Now, eventually she may mean it, and there's nothing more I can do.  I just want to be educated and do the best I can.

[DS2020]

Sounds like you've been through a lot,and yes the fact that you did not recognize the BPD as a friend does not surprise me at all. My wife is very social, and I doubt any of her friends have any idea. They probably think the same way you thought. They seem to save the crazy for those they love most. Based on what you describe, especially with drinking every day, unless you set more boundaries I'm not sure things will get better on their own. But they can get better, but only when she is ready.

[Nala2020]

Sounds like you've been through a lot,and yes the fact that you did not recognize the BPD as a friend does not surprise me at all. My wife is very social, and I doubt any of her friends have any idea. They probably think the same way you thought. They seem to save the crazy for those they love most. Based on what you describe, especially with drinking every day, unless you set more boundaries I'm not sure things will get better on their own. But they can get better, but only when she is ready.

@DS2020 - any other advice?  I am going to work on reading about how to best set boundaries.  The bigger part is that she needs to realize/acknowledge that she needs help/counseling.  How do you get someone to realize there's a problem when they don't think there is one?  She just blames everyone and everything for where she is.  She doesn't actually take any responsibility, and she doesn't think that her drinking is a problem.  I had thought about giving her an ultimatum that either we're over or we do couples' counseling, but then part of me thinks, she might do the counseling, but only to appease me and that it won't actually help if she's not acknowledging her part.  I'm just confused.