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Author Topic: 5 years later... still issues with daughter-in-law and son  (Read 526 times)
Hopeful15

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 17



« on: October 13, 2020, 02:11:26 PM »

I haven't written for a couple of years. I have a link to my original post explaining the problems we have had/are having.
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?action=profile;u=105627;sa=showPosts
The last time I wrote was in 2018. Since then, we have only seen my son and his wife twice. We had asked them over for several dinners but they either didn't answer our emails or said they didn't "feel like" coming. The last time we saw them was in February 2019 when my Dad was dying and he requested to see some family members. I called my son and he and his wife drove 3 hours to see my dad in the hospital. There were about 12 of us there, crying and saying good-bye to my dad. My son and his wife came in and were very aloof, did not shed a tear and then left without gathering with the rest of us afterwards. The last thing my son said was to make sure we let him know when the funeral was going to be. I didn't hear a single thing from him after that and was very hurt by it. He didn't care to know how I was doing or how my mom was doing or anything and it angered me. So I decided not to contact him directly about the funeral which was a month later. Perhaps that was kind of immature of me but the obituary was posted online and I figured he could call me if he really wanted to know. In the meantime, my sister was having a gathering at her place the day of the funeral so 5 days before, she contacted him to tell him about it and he said he didn't know about the funeral, had made other plans and would be unable to come. I see this as game-playing.
That was in February and then in August 2019, we received an email that was sent to a group ( my sisters and my husband's parents and us) saying they moved about 14 hours away from us and gave us their mailing address. We emailed them back congratulating them and wishing them well.
My husband and I have worked really hard to cope with the situation and in fact have gone together to see therapists on 2 occasions. Our son is 30 years old and basically the sentiment from the therapists are "he is an adult, he is making his own choices... even if he is in an abusive relationship, there is nothing we can do if he doesn't want us involved - carry on with your lives and move forward".. We have taken that advice and are doing ok.  We have sent them Christmas cards and birthday cards but have heard nothing from them.
Suddenly this summer, my son sent me a note on Linkdin saying he wanted me to stop looking at his profile on there and he wished I had handled "this whole thing differently". I tried to engage him telling him I missed him and that we would like to work things out with him and his wife. But he just said something nasty so I left it alone and didn't answer.
Then my husband and I received an email from him about 2 weeks ago ( them - but signed by him) saying he is wondering why we haven't been curious about them. He said quite a few things about the environment he grew up in with us and the reason he is having problems in his life is because we didn't encourage him to "be himself", rather he was trying so hard to be a "good boy" and not encouraged to show emotions and because of that he is having relationship problems. He wanted us to acknowledge our role and take responsibility for what we did. He said he is afraid to talk to us because he tends to say what he thinks we want to hear. He said being away from us has been empowering and he is learning about himself and correcting some of his harmful ways. But he says history shows that we don't try and examine our own patterns to change them and become healthy. He also said we've been 'blocking' his wife and he loves her and wishes we would treat her with more respect. He mentioned that he can't trust us to tell him important things that are happening with family members since we didn't tell him about my dad's funeral.  He noted that all he wanted to be was loved and accepted.At the end of the note, he said he wanted us in his life but he didn't know what that would look like. For the time being, he was interested in communicating with us - so we saw that as a positive thing.
 
We wrote back the next day and said we would prefer to communicate over phone or skype because we haven't had success with emails in the past.
 Then a few days went by and I thought maybe he changed his mind and we were going to go back to no contact, so thought it would be important that at the very least he knows that we are interested in communicating, that we do love and accept him, we acknowledge that we made mistakes and we have spent many many hours trying to figure out how to fix things. We mentioned that it mattered a lot to us, we saw 2 therapists on 2 different occasions and took their advice. We told him we loved him and would love to resolve things with him and his wife.
So 2 weeks later, we did get a letter. It started out by saying they want to communicate by email only as that gives them time to think about their answers.We feel like this one was written completely by his wife (psychologist- just starting out) because of the style of writing and the terminology that was used.
quote "We all know there are strong tendencies in this family to avoid emotions or conflict at all costs. Letting someone follow their path does not mean drop off the face of the earth, or have some conditions to your communication (ex..needing us to respond at some frequency, attend certain events). I believe there was pettiness / cold- shoulderness/ meanness in your silence and you used the advice as an excuse to not be accountable to that anger. I'd also note that I believe going to 2 counselling sessions over a 2 year period is not considered doing your part or work. I have been in therapy for 2+ years, bi-weekly at a minimum, alot of which has been work on my relationship with you. " unquote
They said we are just using our 'leaving him on his own' as an excuse to ignore the whole issue and tell ourselves that they are the ones with the problem and we are the victims. (it should be noted that they have no contact with anyone on our son's side of the family OR any of his friends- it's not only us).
They said they don't think we handled this in a healthy or mature way.
The reason I am writing today is because I am at a loss as to how to respond to this.
This was the reason we didn't want to use emails - everything gets twisted. I can't believe they are making it sound like we are the ones who decided to go "No contact" .  I think they are looking for a very specific answer from us but I don't know what that is. There was one occasion (back before their wedding in Sept/17) that I called my dil to apologize to her for not supporting her and she said the only way she would accept my apology is if I promised to support her in all circumstances going forward. I told her I couldn't make that kind of promise but that I value our relationship and would try hard to make it work. She said that wasn't "good enough".  It seems like there is no compromising at all in this relationship.
I feel bad for my son.  It seems like because they are having relationship issues, all they are ever doing is trying to 'fix' him and now that has spilled over to being our fault too. She has never taken any responsibility for the problems they have, as far as I can see. 
Please help.
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Huat
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Estranged
Posts: 595


« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2020, 03:09:38 PM »

Welcome back Hopeful15

Since coming on board here, I have taken a few breaks.  All goes well and then there is a bump in the road and I need someone to listen to me...help me to help myself.

So sorry this issue with your son/daughter-in-law hasn't resolved...hasn't improved.  I read in your post that you have been asked to apologize for your part in the breakdown of the relationships with both of them...and you have.  I, too, have apologized...a number of times... to our daughter for what she sees as my sins...and I refuse to do that anymore.  Bin-der-don-dat!  Finished!  Hope you are, too.

In reading your post...the history of the communication...I am reminded of a very important gem of information I got from this forum.  It is...not to...J-A-D-E (Justify-Argue-Deny-Explain) when in a heated conversation with someone.  What an eye-opener that was for me!  I would reflect back on some of the rants from my daughter...the accusations that made me want to defend myself.  I never won!  Anything I counteracted with just added fuel to her fire and the beat went on and on and...

It is very pro-active of you and your husband to partake in counselling for yourselves  and I think you got advice from them to "carry on with your lives and move forward."   You write..."we have taken that advice and are doing ok."

The thing is...today as you wrote this post you aren't doing okay...and that is okay!  This is such an emotional journey that we are on with these troubled-troublesome individuals who share our lives.  One day we have a handle on things, the next day not.

I am a Mom...you are a Mom.  Even though that umbilical cord was severed, the heart strings will be there forever...the tugs on them varying in intensity.   These children of ours will always be a part of us...but they should never be allowed to consume our lives...never have our overall happiness pivot on their meanderings.

Hope you continue with your own counselling...hope you continue on here.   I have found great relief in hitting the keyboard...letting it all out...then taking a deep breath at the end.  For you, too?

Huat
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Hopeful15

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 17



« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2020, 11:02:19 AM »

Huat, Thank you for your message.
I am with you regarding the JADE. I learned about that from this website too and have read several examples of people who have had no success when they started explaining , justifying and defending themselves.  So that stuck with me. When we replied to my son's letter and his grievances, we didn't address most of them but I just wanted to send a message to him letting him know we are aware we weren't perfect parents ( who is?), and that we have always loved him and still do and that we just want the best for him.
My husband was reluctant to send the note but I thought if we just send a positive message of love, how can it go wrong?  I guess my husband is a quicker learner than I am because I had a grain of hope that this message would get across to our son and he would feel better about things.
Our son has completely changed since he got into this relationship with his now wife. He was a forgiving guy, kind-hearted and would be willing to compromise.  Even as a little boy, you could see he had a lot of empathy for others.  He was sensitive but had good common sense.  So I was hoping to touch that part of him with my message - and maybe I did but he has really gotten himself into a pickle with his wife. I think he has to keep supporting his wife, because if he doesn't, I feel like he would have hell to pay.  She's already given him a black eye and we only found out that by fluke - who knows what else has happened?  When he left the house to "get some space" ( 1 month before they were married), she panicked, called the police and cut off all the credit cards and bank acounts to keep him 'safe' from himself.  She is a scary lady. ( she got her name on the title of his house after they only knew each other for 3 months)
I guess I have reasons deep down to believe that he may come out of this one day. But I am also not kidding myself that this could be his destiny ( particularly if they start having children-I feel he would never want to abandon his children). 
We were prepared to go into many years of no contact but then he reached out to us saying he wanted to communicate. What parent wouldn't jump at this chance?  The problem here is that things are really getting muddled again since even a note with no defending, justifying or explaining got picked apart.
I guess the help I am looking for is:   Should I continue trying to do this via email?  I was thinking of suggesting that we find a mutually agreed upon therapist to meet with us on zoom or something like that and try to work through some of the issues.  Has anyone tried that?  Does anyone have a therapist they could suggest for this?  Or, should we just not answer the note and wait until my son is really 'ready' to accept us as imperfect parents and more or less agree to disagree?
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Huat
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Gender: Female
What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Child
Relationship status: Estranged
Posts: 595


« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2020, 07:44:05 PM »

Hello back, Hopeful15

As with me, seems your road has been just as rocky.  Currently we have been estranged from our daughter for 4 years...with longer/shorter periods in the past.   We have asked a number of times if she would join us in counselling but she flatly refuses...going as far as to say she will never go into counselling with...me...her Mom.  Reading between the lines, that says a lot.  Could she be afraid of what she would hear?  Needless to say, if you and your husband could arrange that with your son, for sure a possible move forward for all.

So fortunate that there are no grandchildren to worry about...well...so far, huh?  Believe me, that is a whole other can of worms...worries.

I can hear your concern about your son's relationship with his wife.  Sounds like she is strong-willed and domineering...not the type of person any of us would pick for our children to pair up with but...they don't ask us.

I can well imagine how you felt when he reached out to you saying he wanted to communicate.   Oh, for sure, it was good you reciprocated!  The situation would have to be quite horrific if/when a parent would turn away from their child.  Guess that happens, though.

So...things are yet again going sour?  So sorry!  What a disappointment for you...yet another one, right?  Well...that, too, I understand.   

Are you wondering if you should continue email contact with him...or...wondering if you should try to arrange working with a therapist on something like Zoom?  (Wow!...the world changing!)

Of course, I am not privy to the what is in the emails each of you have exchanged.  In dealing with my daughter, I have tried to stay "generic" but somehow she finds ways of picking something out of the air...something taken out of context...and then the fireworks start.

I certainly hope you can keep up some kind of communication with your son.  The not J-A-D-E'ing is important but then, too, one can't just stay silent...there has to be some kind of response, words that will not fan the flame...like..."I'm sorry you feel that way.  How can we move forward?"   Search through this website for the some of "Tips"..."Tools."

I, for one, will be interested on how things go on with you and your son.

Huat
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Sancho
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« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2020, 08:40:53 PM »

You mention that you think the first email  was actually written by both your son and dil? I am wondering if you son is showing signs of being unhappy and dil is putting all the blame for this on you? So she starts off a correspondence that is designed to ultimately convince your son that any unhappiness he has is your fault. I agree about not using the email. Wonder if you could email back though to just say that you would like to communicate but want to do so by phone. It might be the case that at some point your son will not just comply with his wife's directions and might call. Hearing your voice would be good for him I think?
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Hopeful15

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What is your sexual orientation: Straight
Who in your life has "personality" issues: Inlaw
Posts: 17



« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2020, 07:12:20 PM »

Hi Sancho,
Thanks for your response.  When we received the first email from my son, we were quite encouraged that it was his style of writing and were hopeful that maybe he was approaching us on his own.  Our first response was that we didn’t want to communicate by email and wondered if he would consider having a phone call or a zoom call where the 4 of us could discuss issues.
The response was no, he wanted to email so he could carefully consider his answers and take his time to do so.
So when we did respond to the first email addressing most of the issues he brought up and then got a response 2 weeks later, I could see quite a difference in the style of writing.  The second email was definitely in our dil’s style of writing and in fact was a lot of psychobabble (she is a psychologist but has only been self employed since she has graduated and I have no idea how much experience she’s had in the last 3 years).  It was actually baffling to me because she was talking about how the estrangement between them and us was initiated and continued by us -?  That couldn’t be further from the truth-we continually tried to engage them at first, just asking if they would like to get together and discuss issues, or not discuss issues and just get together but they demonstrated loud and clear that they weren’t interested so we tried to respect that and no longer tried. So now this?  I can’t imagine responding to the 2nd letter that was sent - I have no idea what I would say? I can’t go along with the lies. So that is why I am struggling
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