Should I move out?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Dad of two here, S10 and S7, married to uBPDw for 14 years.  Several years ago I posted in the Improving Relationship board, but I've recently accepted that our marriage should end.  Last week, during one of her dysregulations, I underhand tossed the remote control near her on the couch after she complained about my channel choice.  She accused me of throwing the remote at her and had a psychotic screaming episode in front of the kids (made S7 cry).  She said she was 100% done.  I said that was OK, and I meant it.  After years of trying to save the marriage, that was the last straw for me.  Unlike other times, I haven't had serious thoughts about reconciling since.  Wife is angry with me but mostly on board with the divorce, depending on her mood.  Neither of us have filed.  Wife stays at home and has been home-schooling the kids because of COVID.

She has been asking me to move out for years during times when she's upset with me, and now she is again saying she wants me to move out.  I initially resisted this, but it would be so nice to have somewhere to go when she dysregulates.  It may protect the kids from witnessing more of the dysregulation they saw from her last week.

She wants us to split a studio apartment so that we don't have to sleep in the same house but the kids don't have to move.  Her proposal was that every other weekend, I could stay in our house and she would stay in the apt.  I would prefer to get a 2BD apt of my own, and take the kids there other weekend, to a place she had no control over.  However, when I found a 2BD in a safe complex, she said it was too expensive and had bad online reviews, so she didn't consent to it.  Legally, I think I can rent this if I want, but I don't want to trigger her bad behavior that is potentially traumatizing to our kids, or have her spend $10K on who-knows-what to "get back" at me.

Maybe I should just file and try to get this over with as soon as possible, so that she no longer has so much influence on my decisions and finances?  But filing for divorce or even talking to a lawyer may trigger her bad behavior...  Ugh, I am so tired of being hostage to her emotions, but I need to try to predict her reactions in order to protect my kids and myself.  80% of the time, she's a good mom.

Thanks for reading.  I'd be interested in what you think about my situation and how you all handled the transition from marriage to divorce with regard to parenting, finances, and living arrangements.

[sterlingblue]

Dad of two here, S10 and S7, married to uBPDw for 14 years.  Several years ago I posted in the Improving Relationship board, but I've recently accepted that our marriage should end.  Last week, during one of her dysregulations, I underhand tossed the remote control near her on the couch after she complained about my channel choice.  She accused me of throwing the remote at her and had a psychotic screaming episode in front of the kids (made S7 cry).  She said she was 100% done.  I said that was OK, and I meant it.  After years of trying to save the marriage, that was the last straw for me.  Unlike other times, I haven't had serious thoughts about reconciling since.  Wife is angry with me but mostly on board with the divorce, depending on her mood.  Neither of us have filed.  Wife stays at home and has been home-schooling the kids because of COVID.

She has been asking me to move out for years during times when she's upset with me, and now she is again saying she wants me to move out.  I initially resisted this, but it would be so nice to have somewhere to go when she dysregulates.  It may protect the kids from witnessing more of the dysregulation they saw from her last week.

She wants us to split a studio apartment so that we don't have to sleep in the same house but the kids don't have to move.  Her proposal was that every other weekend, I could stay in our house and she would stay in the apt.  I would prefer to get a 2BD apt of my own, and take the kids there other weekend, to a place she had no control over.  However, when I found a 2BD in a safe complex, she said it was too expensive and had bad online reviews, so she didn't consent to it.  Legally, I think I can rent this if I want, but I don't want to trigger her bad behavior that is potentially traumatizing to our kids, or have her spend $10K on who-knows-what to "get back" at me.

Maybe I should just file and try to get this over with as soon as possible, so that she no longer has so much influence on my decisions and finances?  But filing for divorce or even talking to a lawyer may trigger her bad behavior...  Ugh, I am so tired of being hostage to her emotions, but I need to try to predict her reactions in order to protect my kids and myself.  80% of the time, she's a good mom.

Thanks for reading.  I'd be interested in what you think about my situation and how you all handled the transition from marriage to divorce with regard to parenting, finances, and living arrangements.

[ForeverDad]

I believe that concept is called 'nesting'.  It is impractical for our high conflict, high emotion cases.  Especially financially, since eventually it would mean maintaining three homes, one for you, one for her and one for the kids.  And what would happen when one of the kids is ill or has to do homework, or a myriad other excuses and she refuses to leave them?

It is far more practical to have two homes and the children are exchanged.  Virtually all separated parents do that... and it works.  Your idea to have your home large enough for them to stay with you makes sense.

As for her predictable rants and rages triggered by, well, literally anything, that's going to happen no matter how carefully you try to tiptoe around the eggshells.  The wisdom is to have time tested strategies that are likely to work despite the triggered rages and predictable obstruction of parenting.  We're good at that, we can share what strategies have generally worked for us... as well as which generally haven't worked for us.

One way to perceive your situation is that you have to be the immovable wall to her irresistible force.  Yes, you can do it with some time, effort and assistance from us as well as your local court.

Meanwhile, you have to be very careful to avoid her posturing as victim and her casting you as an abuser.  Be as angelic in your behavior as possible.  That tossed remote can end up being reported that you beat her up and threw her down three flights of stairs.  Do your best not to give her ways to create incidents, after all, you know she can make almost anything be emotionally convincing though it's only a tempest in a teapot.

Her concept of parenting, that is, gifting you alternate weekends, is from her perspective.  Would you get more time when she's not home schooling?  Would you get more parenting time once the kids are back in school?  (Experts are saying locked up at home is not as emotionally healthy for the kids as them attending school with other children.  The virus is nasty of course but the only ones at heightened risk are the very old and the immune-compromised people with existing serious health conditions.)  Once I got past the initial temp order during the endless divorce process, I walked out with equal time in a 2-2-3 schedule recommended by our Custody Evaluator.  She had Mon-Tue overnights, I had Wed-Thu overnights and our three overnight weekends were alternated.

Don't promise her that all you want are alternate weekends.  Leave that open, that you feel more time is appropriate and that court may end up favoring equal time.

She's at high risk to file complaints about you for either DV or child abuse, or both, all to gain and solidify the upper hand.  Some here, myself included, did some 'down low' recording of temper tantrums (incidents) to provide some realistic background that we aren't the ones behaving badly.  Not triggering incidents, but quietly documenting them.

Typically when a couple has issues they seek counseling to work things out.  To reach that goal sharing and not having secrets is recommended.  However, if the relationship is ending, it's different.  You need to keep some things private and confidential such as your research when consulting family law attorneys.  Repeat, that is smart and wise.  Ask the lawyers not to send bills or anything else to your home.  Pay with cash or some other method that can't be discovered easily by the spouse.  Sorry, but no receipts or business cards for her to pull out of your pockets, that's reality.

[sterlingblue]

Thanks, FD.  What you said makes a lot of sense.  You are a treasure to us here.

[GaGrl]

You may want to consider retaining a lawyer, filing, and getting temporary orders as quickly as possible. This will let you fully separate finances, etc. and move forward in negotiations.

Is your wife, or you, assuming she will stay in the house?

[ForeverDad]

Your spouse isn't working now (SAHM) so probably your spouse is going to expect you to support two residences, yours and hers.  You may have to do that at the beginning, during divorce and a short time thereafter, but your goal should be that any support for her should be limited and that sooner or later she ought to support herself.

Was she working before the pandemic and homeschooling the kids?

You may feel she would never make serious allegations against you to make you look worse than her.  But if she has made threats, even even merely contemplated them, then it will happen, given enough time.  Throw separation and divorce in the mix and...

[mstnghu]

Sterling,

I'm in a similar situation to yours. I'm not sure what state you're in and what the laws are but you'll definitely want to familiarize yourself with your rights as a husband/dad and what the laws are where you live. I'm in CA and fortunately here laws mostly give husbands and wives 50/50 equal rights in divorce/custody/etc. division. I've educated myself as much as possible to know my rights. I think my wife has actually been surprised when she's tried to use scare tactics on me about leaving and that I'm able to stand up to her with actual knowledge and facts about the laws.

I actually moved out of my house almost 3 weeks ago because I'd had enough. I'm currently living at my parents' house and am still going over to visit my son and dog on most days. I'm trying to keep the peace with the wife as much as possible but at times it's very difficult. I've agreed to not make any big formal decisions such as filing for legal separation or divorce without having the discussion with her beforehand. I've also continued paying for all the household expenses while she's living there.  She's trying very hard to convince me that she's going to change her behaviors and that I should move back home. At this point I have no intention of doing so. I think I'm at a crossroads and I need to make the decision to once and for all end this toxic cycle that's gone on for years. A couple days ago while I was at the house she dysregulated again badly and we had a big blowout fight- again, more affirmation as to why I can't be living under the same roof as her anymore. By the time I'd gotten back home to my parents' house, she'd blown up my phone with texts and calls trying to apologize for her bad behavior and that she was supposedly embarrassed for the way she'd acted toward me. I guess that's some sort of progress, but honestly it's all too little too late.

[ForeverDad]

Progress... Progress is when a person with BPD (pwBPD) starts serious therapy (typically DBT or CBT), applies it in life and thinking, continuing for years.  Otherwise, it's just promises.  Actions, long term actions are what count.

When apart it may seem the other is better, but it's not real.  Distance reduces the expression of a pwBPD's behaviors.  Resume the relationship and the cycles return again sooner than later.  As a member expressed it years ago, the baggage of the past close relationship deafens the pwBPD to actually listen to you.  BPD is more impactful the closer the relationship.  One of the closest is a spouse/partner.

[weatherthestorm]

Sterling,

I feel like you and I are traveling parallel paths here. I'm married 10 years, 3 kids (8, 5, 2)  and also uBPDw. I made a decision 4 weeks ago when during a disagreement she threatened divorce and said she would be sure everyone knew I abused her and abused our children, because verbal abuse is abuse, that it was the last time I would accept her threats. I met with my counselor, did a 30 minute consult with a good divorce attorney, and prepared myself for the moment. This past Sunday I told her I was done with her threats and I want a divorce. She still refuses to accept any responsibility for any of her actions, says she does NOT have a personality disorder, and that I am the abuser.

Like 'mstnghu' I am in CA which is a no fault state and essentially 50/50. My 30 minute consult was the best thing I have ever done when considering this process. The attorney told me that courts hear everyday from an angry spouse that the other is abusive, angry, violent, etc. It all comes down to proof. Were the police ever called to the home for domestic violence? Is there a report filed with CPS? Has a restraining order ever been filed? If no, the courts will usually make assumptions based on past experiences and award joint custody as that is their primary goal. This information was invaluable to me to feel confident in this process.

Like your wife, my wife wants to keep the kids in one home and we switch. She is unrealistic, but she is also searching for control. She wants to stick it out through the holidays which I am open to, but her real personality will continue to show itself and make it hard. As hard as I thought this whole thing would be, I have to say this week has been in a way very freeing, I see light at the end of the tunnel. I know it will get worse before it gets better, but like you we deserve to be happy and our children deserve to have freedom from moms control, even if only half the time.

WTS

[MeandThee29]

I used to attend a divorce support group through my attorney's office run by their divorce coach/therapist. Nearly all of them had really tough relationships. The nesting topic came up frequently because it's expensive here to have two places. The divorce coach said that she recommends nesting as only a short-term solution while you sort out things. In her experience, it rarely works out long term. Most end up going back to get it changed at some point.

When the partner is disordered, she recommended getting your own place as soon as you can no matter how small. One of the people who attended that group one time walked us around his tiny two bedroom, basement apartment. One bedroom had only bunkbeds. One bedroom had only his twin bed and a small dresser and closet. The living room/kitchen wasn't much either. But he had his own pad when his two boys visited! He said that it was totally worth it.

And indeed the drama may fade when you're apart. When the person who triggers their abandonment and mood swings isn't around, they certainly are going to feel better. But beware, everything is still there.

[MeandThee29]

nm

[sterlingblue]

OP here.  Thanks all for your replies.  It was really eye-opening that she would falsely accuse me, in front of the kids, of throwing a remote control at her.  That reset my expectations of what she's capable of and finally convinced me that our marriage needs to end.

I think it would be best if I got a lawyer and filed as soon as possible, but both actions are likely to trigger her and I'm afraid of what she might do.

It will be tough to get 50-50 time with her doing homeschool.  She is covid-paranoid, and there is no way she would be OK with them going back to school.