uBPDmom quits parenting

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

SD13's mom didn't show up last Sat or Sun or today to pick up SD.  We had warned SD13 that might happen. 

Yesterday SD cried.  She's mad at her mom and mad at fate for giving her a mom who is this ill.  She's noticed that mom doesn't keep any of her promises and she's mad about that too.

Tonight, SD asked us to prod her mom and see if we could get her to show up tomorrow.  SD misses her and misses her cats. 

That didn't go well.  Mom still flat-out refuses to see SD and says it's all our fault.  She won't see SD unless 1) We justify why we want her to see SD when "both you and the FT said it was bad for her to see me" (FT didn't say that and neither did we and even her L told her no one said that and she can see her kid) or 2) we let her do family therapy with SD with a different therapist.

H had enough and called her out - you asked for therapy and you quit in a snit because you didn't like what the therapist said.  What will you do when a different T tells you something you don't want to hear?  No, we aren't putting SD through that anymore.

Now we have to explain to SD tomorrow that mom's not coming.  All I can think to say is "Mom is too sick right now to see you."  It's been 2 weeks since the trigger, but the disordered thinking is SO strong in those posts.

[worriedStepmom]

SD13's mom didn't show up last Sat or Sun or today to pick up SD.  We had warned SD13 that might happen. 

Yesterday SD cried.  She's mad at her mom and mad at fate for giving her a mom who is this ill.  She's noticed that mom doesn't keep any of her promises and she's mad about that too.

Tonight, SD asked us to prod her mom and see if we could get her to show up tomorrow.  SD misses her and misses her cats. 

That didn't go well.  Mom still flat-out refuses to see SD and says it's all our fault.  She won't see SD unless 1) We justify why we want her to see SD when "both you and the FT said it was bad for her to see me" (FT didn't say that and neither did we and even her L told her no one said that and she can see her kid) or 2) we let her do family therapy with SD with a different therapist.

H had enough and called her out - you asked for therapy and you quit in a snit because you didn't like what the therapist said.  What will you do when a different T tells you something you don't want to hear?  No, we aren't putting SD through that anymore.

Now we have to explain to SD tomorrow that mom's not coming.  All I can think to say is "Mom is too sick right now to see you."  It's been 2 weeks since the trigger, but the disordered thinking is SO strong in those posts.

[MeandThee29]

I'm sorry. This is so hard.

Mine took off many states away and put the onus on them to contact him, which my therapist said is common with someone who won't take responsibility for their actions and relationships with other people. In the first year, there were a handful of texts and emails. He never did acknowledge the effects of dropping out of their lives and what they went through having their lives upended. Periodically he has tried to reestablish contact with them by acting like nothing at all happened.

Sorry, but that's not how healthy people fix broken relationships. Thankfully, he never pursued custody after he left, and they aged out before the divorce process started. 

[I Am Redeemed]

So sorry that mom is so fully in victim mode that she is hurting SD like this.  Sounds like she's looking for an "ok, I take it back " response from you guys.

Sounds like the FT challenged her narrative of herself as the persecuted mother who just wants to be with her child and her instinct is to run and find a T who will validate her version. The constraints of "this T or no T" probably are making her feel cornered and instead of pursuing the only path to see SD despite her emotions, she's running away. 

Has SD had any contact with her? Has she directly asked her mother why she isn't coming?

SD must be feeling very abandoned.

[mart555]

I bet you weren't really surprised. You were just waiting for this to happen. You did not want it to happen but you knew it would come eventually.

It happened to my kids a few times, mom's access was limited to a video chat every week, that was it (she refused supervision).  You know what? it might be the best thing that happened to my kids.  It was difficult, they felt rejected. They had lost their mom.  But they ended up "clearing their mind" and building boundaries.  It really sucks for the kids but I see it as a way for them to not be under their mom's claws. 

I wouldn't force the mom to see SD, it's her choice.  Just make sure that SD understands that no visit might be better than a bad visit.  I'm guessing she feels like a caretaker, and that's something you want to break.

[worriedStepmom]

They emailed a few times the first week (about cats).  SD hasn't responded to mom's most recent email. 

SD is not willing to confront mom directly.  She said she wants to see mom, but she doesn't want to listen to any of the stuff mom will spew about why she HAD to stay away because of X, Y, Z mean people.

mom posted a bunch overnight.  She's pretty much begging us to tell her we want her to see SD.  All we're willing to do is repeat that there's a court order, that we haven't tried to change the court order, and it's up to her if she wants to follow it.

She's out of town (in other state with her bf).  She only gets one visit in Nov because of Thanksgiving, so I guess we wait and see if she shows up in 2 weeks or not.

[worriedStepmom]

I bet you weren't really surprised. You were just waiting for this to happen. You did not want it to happen but you knew it would come eventually.

I am pretty mad at our L, which likely isn't fair.  I kept telling her this would happen if we did family therapy, and she insisted it was better for us to agree to the FT and not go to court.  I think if we had managed to get mom on the stand in court we could have convinced the judge not to make us go through this.

But, typing this out, it's likely having a judge tell her no would have caused the same backlash.

[GaGrl]

I think you're right, worriedstepmom...this would have happened regardless of who challenged her.

I feel so bad for SD13. She must be so internally conflicted -- loving her mom but hating mom's behavior.

I will say that agec13-14 is when my stepdaughter made some very strong decisions about her personal values and future based on her mother's behavior, and it made her a better person than if she didn't consciously separate herself from her mother's influence.

[ForeverDad]

Is there any positive redirection you can provide for your SD?  She's got her dad... she's got you...

I'm reminded of the 5 stages of grieving a loss — denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance — how she's been bouncing around between them.  How to help her accept What Is?

[MeandThee29]

They emailed a few times the first week (about cats).  SD hasn't responded to mom's most recent email. 

SD is not willing to confront mom directly.  She said she wants to see mom, but she doesn't want to listen to any of the stuff mom will spew about why she HAD to stay away because of X, Y, Z mean people.

mom posted a bunch overnight.  She's pretty much begging us to tell her we want her to see SD.  All we're willing to do is repeat that there's a court order, that we haven't tried to change the court order, and it's up to her if she wants to follow it.

She's out of town (in other state with her bf).  She only gets one visit in Nov because of Thanksgiving, so I guess we wait and see if she shows up in 2 weeks or not.

I'm sorry that this is so twisted up for you. It's definitely not SD's job to confront Mom. It's Mom's job to show up. It's your job to follow the court order. Should be simple, but it's not.

The FT should have input, but you may want to rethink telling SD that mom is sick. At 13, it sounds to me like she is suspecting that it is much more than that. I understand that you are walking a difficult line, but "sick" may sound like a lie to her, and she needs to know that you are truth-tellers. You don't have to give a lot of details at all. My kids were older, but I always told them the truth. "Dad has chosen to go far away because he believes that's good for him. It's hard to understand why he would do that. I love you very much, and I'm not going away. I'm here for you."

You know your situation best of course.  

[mart555]

I understand that you are walking a difficult line, but "sick" may sound like a lie to her, and she needs to know that you are truth-tellers.

I think that 13 is old enough to understand that mom isn't sick: she is mentally ill.  It sucks but it is what it is.  And that's why mom isn't consistent.  It will suck for her to realize that her mom is "crazy" but maybe it's time.   This is assuming that the mom has been diagnosed. 

You guys shouldn't have to walk on eggshells to preserve the relationship between SD and her mom.  Try to maintain it, but I say don't push too hard.  I was in the same shoes and realized that it didn't help.  I was just being naive, thinking that I could save them all.  Now I focus on quality over quantity.  A short infrequent visit is much better than a long visit that is forced. 

[worriedStepmom]

I did have a long conversation with SD a week ago and explained BPD to her.  We've been talking a lot about mental illness and how it affects the way her mom perceives information and makes decisions.   So sick in our conversation  = mental illness run amok.

We also went through the 5 stages of grief with her.  We don't want her to feel guilty for being angry.

H has been spending more time with SD to try to distract her from being sad that mom isn't there.  I have wanted to tell her "it's okay, you have us", but it's not okay.  I love her dearly, but I'm not her mom, and her mom is hurting her over and over again.

[I Am Redeemed]

We also went through the 5 stages of grief with her.  We don't want her to feel guilty for being angry.

H has been spending more time with SD to try to distract her from being sad that mom isn't there.  I have wanted to tell her "it's okay, you have us", but it's not okay.  I love her dearly, but I'm not her mom, and her mom is hurting her over and over again.

It's good that you are acknowledging her feelings and giving her the chance to navigate through them with support.

I wish I could take the pain of the broken relationship with their dad from my kids, but I can't. I can be there as their mom, but I can't be their dad, too. That's a huge hole that I cannot fill.

I think that in these tough situations,  what makes the difference for a kid is having a safe place to express feelings and have them acknowledged. Feelings that get stuffed or silenced don't get processed. It hurts to see someone hurt our kids. But I believe that having someone who can support them in expressing and acknowledging the feelings will build resilience, which everyone needs.

What happens if mom continues to refuse visitation or participate with the family therapist? From a legal standpoint,  I mean.

[MeandThee29]

It's good that you are acknowledging her feelings and giving her the chance to navigate through them with support.

I wish I could take the pain of the broken relationship with their dad from my kids, but I can't. I can be there as their mom, but I can't be their dad, too. That's a huge hole that I cannot fill.

I think that in these tough situations,  what makes the difference for a kid is having a safe place to express feelings and have them acknowledged. Feelings that get stuffed or silenced don't get processed. It hurts to see someone hurt our kids. But I believe that having someone who can support them in expressing and acknowledging the feelings will build resilience, which everyone needs. 

I told mine that it was normal have strong feelings. If they wanted to vent to their friends, it was fine as long as it was productive and didn't pull them into a hole. If they wanted therapy, I'd pay for it. Whatever they needed, I wanted them to do it in a safe way. I warned them about the dangers of using drugs/alcohol and hanging out with certain people to deal with the pain.

Thankfully they seem to have come through the worst of it OK.

[mart555]

What happens if mom continues to refuse visitation or participate with the family therapist? From a legal standpoint,  I mean.

I'm hoping they are able to build on status quo and demonstrate that the mom isn't always stable.  I really hate scheduled visits when a parent has BPD since you can never predict how they'll be.  I would much prefer random visits such as "hey mom is inviting us for dinner tonight and we'd like to go!" but the BPD parent feels like they would lose on visits so don't want that. 

There is a major instability with BPD (and NPD) but family court isn't able to handle that.  Well, that's my opinion...

[worriedStepmom]

H doesn't want to change anything from a legal standpoint right now.  He thinks mom will start visits again in a few weeks, once she's had a chance to calm down/start to miss SD.  If this continues past Christmas, we'll have to think about our options.

We definitely don't want non-scheduled visits.  mom can't tolerate that kind of uncertainty.  As it is, she wants H's explicit approval for every single scheduled visit (he refuses to answer those questions because COURT ORDER).

[I Am Redeemed]

So...the holes in this court order are that there are no consequences for leaving SD wondering when and if mom will show up each and every time there is a visit and mom is able to visit or not visit at a whim. That sucks.

Has SD's therapist weighed in on the impact this could have on SD?

Strikes me as ironic that BPD can't tolerate the uncertainty of nonscheduled visits, but she is imposing the same kind of uncertainty on SD by not showing up for scheduled ones

[mart555]

So...the holes in this court order are that there are no consequences for leaving SD wondering when and if mom will show up each and every time there is a visit and mom is able to visit or not visit at a whim. That sucks.

I don't think that it sucks too much.  What sucks even more is a visit when the mom ends up in a psychotic episode and you wonder how safe the kids are.  I received death threats from my ex when she had the kids with her.  She wasn't super coherent, lots of dissociation.  Yeah, that wasn't fun.  I wish she had canceled the visit instead.  That made quite an impression on the kids.

[I Am Redeemed]

I don't think that it sucks too much.  What sucks even more is a visit when the mom ends up in a psychotic episode and you wonder how safe the kids are.  I received death threats from my ex when she had the kids with her.  She wasn't super coherent, lots of dissociation.  Yeah, that wasn't fun.  I wish she had canceled the visit instead.  That made quite an impression on the kids.

That would, indeed,  be worse, mart. I'm sorry your kids had to go through that.

Makes me wonder if my ex ever gets access to the kids again (supervised, I am sure, to start) if there might still be damage he can do by seeing them that is worse than the abandonment. He's had psychotic episodes and is delusional and paranoid. 

[worriedStepmom]

So...the holes in this court order are that there are no consequences for leaving SD wondering when and if mom will show up each and every time there is a visit and mom is able to visit or not visit at a whim. That sucks.

Yes, we worded the court order too narrowly - it says mom cannot threaten to abandon SD by leaving the state (her previous favorite phrase), but nothing about just not showing up for visits.    But, after a week of ranting about me being a bad mother, mom now plans to pick SD up on Saturday for their 8-hr visit.  We'll see how it goes. 

The FT has documented the situation in case she's called to testify in a future court proceeding.  FT is concerned about SD.

SD, however, hasn't wanted to talk to her individual T about mom this time.  Instead, she asked H to go with her to her T appointment today.  She wants to tell him the things he's doing that bother her "so that he knows and won't do them anymore."  H was happy that she trusts him - she knows that he will change once he understands. 

I kinda think the timing is a bit of a test - she's focused on H to prove to herself that mom is the problem, not SD.  If SD can articulate what she wants and H changes, then SD can stop wondering how she can get her message across in a way that mom would understand.

[worriedStepmom]

Makes me wonder if my ex ever gets access to the kids again (supervised, I am sure, to start) if there might still be damage he can do by seeing them that is worse than the abandonment. He's had psychotic episodes and is delusional and paranoid. 

Yes.  My friend with the NPDex - her kids did much better when they don't see their dad AT ALL.  Even with a 90-minute weekly supervised dinner, he was able to sow enough doubt and manipulation to really mess them up.

[mart555]

But, after a week of ranting about me being a bad mother, mom now plans to pick SD up on Saturday for their 8-hr visit.  We'll see how it goes. 

The mom's consistency is great for the kid...