Back again, unsure

[Carguy]

Hey everyone, I'm back again.

So after my ex and I had been apart for around 10 months and her being colder and angrier towards me than she had ever been before, we started talking again in August.

We ended up getting back together and things seemed like they were going better this time. I listened to her more closely and calmly and validated her. We only had a couple of moderate misunderstandings.

Recently there was some drama between my ex BPD, my ex-wife (who I am still good friends with), and my son. One night on the phone I became defensive when I felt like she was attacking my son and she told me I was being defensive and that we should just go to bed. The next morning I stopped by her place and I talked to her trying to help her to better the relationship between everybody. She became upset thinking I was accusing her of not trying. I repeated what I said and told her that I wasn't accusing her of anything but trying to help her. She was extremely upset and told me that I was going to be late for work I kept telling me that I needed to go to work. I had to go but I was in a very bad mood that day and extremely exhausted. After work I went home like I always do. She gets off an hour after I do and we live 20 miles apart. I went to bed early and didn't say anything.

The next day she was very upset and told me she was shaking and I wasn't there to talk to her or even let her know what was going on. I messed up. She told me we needed time apart. After I went back to work from my lunch she sent me a text saying that she still loved and cared about me and she was sending angels to Watch Over Me. I didn't know if this meant we were broke up or just taking some space. She still wanted to spend Thanksgiving together. We did and it felt like we were back together. Up until a couple of days ago I thought we were.

The last few days I started noticing she started pushing away again and when we finally talked she was upset that I didn't push harder to talk to her to find out what was going on. I had asked her a few times what was going on through text and one time on a lunch break but she was upset that I didn't say anything when I stopped to say hi to her and that I love her at her work (Wal-Mart). She told me that it bothered her that we were acting like we were together when we weren't. She confirmed that we are broke up. I was hurt and left.

A few minutes after I got back to work she sent me a text saying she understands why I had to leave quickly because of the hurt and that she loved and cared about me and wants to be my friend still. That night she came down to get her stuff and talked to me and told me she isn't trying to hurt me but she doesn't feel like I can give her what she needs. She says she still loves and cares about me but I was very standoffish. She asked if she could give me a hug and I told her I wasn't ready.

 Last night I took the rest of her stuff to her and we had a long conversation. I told her the amazing qualities she has and many good things and she started crying. It seemed like a good conversation. We even was hugging.

Later she started getting uncomfortable again. I got her to smile and started hugging her and she told me she wasn't comfortable with that. She said it felt like I was trying to pull her in again. I can understand that. I told her it was hard for me but I would keep my distance and start staying away if that would be better for her. She stood there for a while and then said okay. I told her I would still love and care about her and to have a good life and I might see her around. This morning I seen on her Facebook that she was sharing post that said in a relationship he can be a good man but  not be the man for you and that you have to let go for your own happiness and stuff like that. Definitely sharing relationship ending type things.

To me it looks like she is very conflicted about ending things. When I said maybe I would stay away and give her space and how she paused for a while thinking about it and then just said okay doesn't seem very convincing that she wants that. She is upset that I wasn't there for her that one day and doesn't feel like I can give her what she needs. Honestly I feel that I have gave her more than a lot of her other relationships. We have been together for five years with the last three being off and on. Her other relationships that I know of have only lasted a few months. While we were apart for those 10 months she dated a few guys and none of them lasted. She even told me that. She told me they weren't deep and meaningful like our relationship.

After she told me we needed time apart I stopped by her work and while I was talking to her some other guy went out of his way to walk by and say hi to her. I think he intended to stop and talk to her until he seen I was talking to her. The following weekend we spent together, Sunday she said he needed to call and talk to her because he was struggling. I said okay and I went outside and worked on my stuff. I have to question if part of this is also because she wants to see this other guy.

I would like advice on all of this. At this point I think staying away and giving her space might be the best thing but then is it? Giving her space to think will she start to miss me? Or am I better to have light interaction and no expectations?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rev]

I would like advice on all of this. At this point I think staying away and giving her space might be the best thing but then is it? Giving her space to think will she start to miss me? Or am I better to have light interaction and no expectations?

Hi Carguy...

These are really excellent questions - THE questions actually because they center on your sense of boundaries and self.  So here's my take on them.

 At this point I think staying away and giving her space might be the best thing but then is it?

Where do you find your sense of independence here?  In the space.  You give her the space to meet you where you are at - independently rather than ... yep ... co-dependently.  

Giving her space to think will she start to miss me?

There's where the self-work comes in to play.   Again, where do you find your sense of independence here? You may need to work through things to accept and answer that you were not expecting or hoping for. Or you may find that her "ask" is too much or  "commitment" not enough.  Regardless, this is really about your boundaries.


Or am I better to have light interaction and no expectations?

As you answer the top two, the answer to this will become clearer.  I think I hear what you are saying about "no expectations". You are using it in the sense of whether or not the relationship works for the two of you, right?  

How about we do something else?  In the time you have the light interaction (a great idea I think) why not quietly have all kinds of expectations about your values and what you expect from a good, healthy, relationship?  I think that would be a really healthy thing.

I asked all the same questions. My ending was that I finally left after a few attempts to repair, but that's my story. Every story is different. The point, I think, is not to "save" the relationship, to find a way to "convince her" or "convince you".  Instead, it's about learning to lovingly and clearly communicate your values and let the rest grow organically.

I am now in a new relationship where I have plenty of boundaries and so does she.  It's awesome. We disagree from time to time, sometimes strongly. We never fight if you catch my meaning here.

Good luck.

Peace.

Rev

[Carguy]

Thanks Rev!

What you said really resonates with me. The first part about independent rather than codependent makes a lot of sense to me. In the past I have been and done very codependent things when we broke up. This time I feel like I just want to give space. Be independent rather than codependent. I believe this is because of the work I have done on myself and with my therapist. I also believe the 10 months apart help with that.

The second part has been in my mind as well. Mainly questioning her level of commitment to me. We have broken up and recycled quite a few times. I have learned a lot over the last year-and-a-half and this time when we were together I did notice that it it went a lot better. Even our breakup isn't on bad terms like past breakups. Still she seems to be the leaving type.

As far as the third part, my feelings at this point are that I will give space and distance myself for a little bit. After that we can probably have light contact. Nothing serious or pressuring on either side. I'm willing to be a friend but it will likely be a little more distant friend. Not close friends like I believe she wants. To me I feel that would be confusing for both of us.

[Carguy]

So this morning I found out that apparently I am very restricted on her profile on Facebook now. I'm assuming she has clicked the take a break button and limited things I can see. I went from being able to see all of her posts that she posts everyday to only a few posts each month up until the end of last month. I'm also limited on only being able to see a few of her pictures. We are still friends but as limited as it is it's about the same as not being friends on there. It makes me question. Like I said, I have to wonder if this guy is getting involved with her and she is trying to hide that from me or something. I'm not going to do anything because it has been said that no response is the best response but that makes me feel like going in and unfriending her and just blocking her. Not going to lie, it hurt. A few weeks ago she was telling me how much she loved me and she thinks I'm the love of her life and she's wanted to get married to this. I know this is typical BPD Behavior but it still hurts. Even the other day she said we were not together but she still loves me and cares about me. They sure can do 180s quickly!

I also have to wonder another thing. In the past she told me that she needs me to break through her barriers. She also told me that she doesn't know when they are barriers that I need to break through, or if they are times I need to just leave her alone. It makes me wonder that if the fact that I have been out of contact since The Break-Up the other day and not bothered her made her feel abandoned and upset and this is why she has done this. If this a time that she expects me to push through her barriers make her feel loved and supported or is this just her wanting to see where things go with some other guy? They always leave it with so many questions!

[Rev]

Is this a time that she expects me to push through her barriers make her feel loved and supported or is this just her wanting to see where things go with some other guy?

The answer is to this "either - or" question is "yes".

[Carguy]

Rev,

I'm not sure if there is another guy or not. I can't be a hundred percent sure. I did go by and talk to her on my lunch break however. Now she's telling me. I wasn't there for her and that she doesn't want me in her life and I'm being manipulative by trying to stay in her life and I've done this or that in the past and on and on. It seems I'm being devalued and painted more black. Perhaps part of it is her guilt too? It's funny how the last time we talked it was pretty good and now it's gone from that to lot more negative. At this point from what she said and the way it seems I'm probably best to just stay away and out of her life for now? I'm really having to wonder if her changing things on Facebook and being really negative today has to do with the fact that I have State Auto contact since Saturday? She's filling her abandonment cashews and taking it out on me now? She also told me that she just wants to be done and move on. She said I'm bringing up everything for her again. All the negative feelings.

[Rev]

All the negative feelings.

So tough to know anything, isn't it?  The thing we all need to remember is that, depending on the severity of the disorder, there is no orderly way to deal with it.  I know that DBT is all the rage, but there are still a lot of people who believe the BPD is manageable at best and beyond a certain phase, not necessarily treatable.

Through my experiences and studies, I have coined a phrase - Feelings based facts.  In other word's, a disordered person will try to make sense of the world through thoughts that are dripping with powerful emotions that can surge out of nowhere.

So really, what this boils down to is what you are willing to put up with and, more importantly, how much you feel you can handle.  It's a tough call because it sounds callous. But if she had an infectious disease, you would likely take precautions, right.  This is actually no different. Emotional discharges that latch on to our own thought processes are just as infectious as second hand smoke.

Hang in there. Every time you go around the bend like this, if you take time to situate yourself, rationally and emotionally, how you feel about the whole situation will come into greater focus.  Eventually, the decision about what you should do, what you want to do, and what you choose to do will become clear enough that it will be an easier one to make.

Rev

[Rev]

And...  here's a trick that would work for me. 

When I was in a calmer state, I would write things down about my commitments to myself. And when I wasn't in such a calm state, I would go back to the list.

Takes time to de-program your self. Takes time to re=program yourself too.

Rev

[Carguy]

Thanks Rev!

I talked to my therapist today about all of this. I asked what his opinion was on it. He asked me what my gut was telling me. I told him my gut was telling me to give her space. He agreed. He also pointed out that if there continues to be a relationship I need to let her come to me when she has a problem instead of panicking and going to her when I sense something is off. He said I need to let her own her problems. He also said that I need to put her negativity back on her and not internalize it and take it personally. I have gotten better about not taking it personally but I still struggle. I still have more work to do in that area. After our session I felt a lot better about things.