Ugh.

[Depression = 72% of members]

 

I am facing the fact that I do not make reciprocal friendships. The healthy, boundaried, and close relationship kind... is what I desire with all of my heart. What I find though, is that I almost always force a false intimacy with people out of the desire to feel needed, and therefore attract "takers." When I am in a giving role I don't even realize that my real needs are not being met, and then when the dynamic changes and I have helped a person through a hurdle or crisis, I am left high and dry. There is no more reaching out on their end and if they do what I am left with is a shallow friendship.

I become resentful and heartbroken that I once again poured into someone and thought I had cultivated something deep.

I ha(d) this type of relationship with my mom for the years, when we were in each others lives...now we are NC .
When I stop to think of this, I  can quickly see this awful pattern played out again and again since middle school.

And wouldn't you know I am just coming to see it for the millionth time bc of a current type of relationship...I am feeling so sad. I want to change, I want to not be so needy, so emotionally open, and I want to understand healthy boundaries. And most of all I want to meet healthy friends.

[Imatter33]

 

I am facing the fact that I do not make reciprocal friendships. The healthy, boundaried, and close relationship kind... is what I desire with all of my heart. What I find though, is that I almost always force a false intimacy with people out of the desire to feel needed, and therefore attract "takers." When I am in a giving role I don't even realize that my real needs are not being met, and then when the dynamic changes and I have helped a person through a hurdle or crisis, I am left high and dry. There is no more reaching out on their end and if they do what I am left with is a shallow friendship.

I become resentful and heartbroken that I once again poured into someone and thought I had cultivated something deep.

I ha(d) this type of relationship with my mom for the years, when we were in each others lives...now we are NC .
When I stop to think of this, I  can quickly see this awful pattern played out again and again since middle school.

And wouldn't you know I am just coming to see it for the millionth time bc of a current type of relationship...I am feeling so sad. I want to change, I want to not be so needy, so emotionally open, and I want to understand healthy boundaries. And most of all I want to meet healthy friends.

[zachira]

The difficulties you are describing in making healthy friendships, resonates with so many of us who are challenged with attracting the wrong kind of people into our lives and struggle with not knowing how to have healthy relationhips. You are courageous to realize your part in making friendships that are not reciprocal. This is a first step, and it is painful to realize that your investment in friendships are not reciprocated. I have often found very helpful my therapist's suggestion that I observe my feelings when in the presence of other people instead of being so focused on their feelings. This has helped me to see when I am overlooking my needs and blinded by the obvious signs that a person is only interested in taking advantage of me and others while being exclusively focused on getting what is in it for them. It takes time to learn how to have healthy relationships, and to grieve the losses of not having the kind of people we deserve to have in our lives, if only we knew how to have healthy close relationships. You will get there. Be patient with yourself.

[Methuen]

Imatter, I wish I had some wisdom or an experience to share. I don't.  Only empathy. 

But I think it's amazing that you have awareness you don't have reciprocal friendships.  Holy. What a thing to recognize, and face head on. That has to be the first step towards change, and you've taken it. Clearly you can be thoughtful and reflective, so I'm going to put out the optimistic thought that you just keep trying, keep observing, keep reflecting, and with some trial and error (two steps forward one step back kind of thing), you will keep moving forward.   

I am feeling so sad. I want to change, I want to not be so needy, so emotionally open, and I want to understand healthy boundaries. And most of all I want to meet healthy friends.

This kind of motivation, is exactly what will keep you moving forward to meet your goals.  I believe in you imatter.   

I hope tomorrow is a better day.

[Imatter33]

Thank you both. It feels wonderful to just be heard. 

It is interesting to me that I can see clearly the role I play that sets me up for this.
There are often times red flags that I ignore because I am addictedto feeling needed. I think this addiction to feeling needed is a trait cultivated by a parent of BPD.

 I simply find it to be my experience.

So hopefully I do learn to manage this urge, and validate myself...knowing I deserve someone to say first..."How are YOU?, not because they have 5 seconds for me after they unload...no... they care about me and are interested.

[zachira]

You are so wise in recognizing that having a parent with BPD can set the child up for a life long pattern of one sided relationships desperately doing all kinds of things to feel wanted. You are also on to something that few English speakers seem to understand, that asking someone "How are you?" is usually just a formality and does not usually mean that the person asking really wants to know how you are doing. I hope you don't mind my sharing a story that I like about what "How are you?" really means in English for most people most of the time. A man went to a party and decided to answer in a very boring tone to anybody that asked :How are you?" ..."I just killed my mother", and nobody commented on his answer. The fact that you realize so many things about how many people communicate on the surface and you are seeking meaningful connection with others tells me, you will keep seeking relationships that make you feel validated and cared for, and they will happen. It just takes time and there is a steep learning curve though once you make one wonderful lifelong friend, than you will continue to attract more and more of the same. I have personally found it well worthwhile for the benefits it has brought me: to go to years of therapy, to continue to take a hard painful look at how I interact with others, to begin the path of having the people in my life that I deserve to have, and to disengage from those who mistreat me. Probably the biggest challenge, is dealing with the constant disappointment that a lot of people aren't who they appeared to be when we first met them. The truth is having loving caring relationships are about having disagreements from time to time, and there will always be hurt when we make the mistake of letting someone take advantage of us, and this happens to everybody. I am currently reading the book "Red Flags" which so far gives some wonderful tips on how to see people for who they really are before we become too involved with them. I do think it is so painful when we have to make our own family with friends because so many members of our own family are not safe people to be around. Take care and keep us posted on how you are doing.

[nothinggoodgetsaway]

Hi Friend-

Oh how my heart aches for you- I'm so sorry to hear you're in pain.

Your story resonated with me so deeply- I've been through this and it is exhausting to live in this type of turmoil. You are not alone.

I am going to share a little of my story, and hope it might help you to see that there is a path out - you deserve love and hope and you are going to find peace. You just being here asking for someone to validate you is so promising- you are a fighter!

As a disclaimer- the next bit all has the potential to be "fixing" rather than "validating" you. If what you needed is validation- please feel free to stop where you are- the rest is likely to be irritating If you were looking for some brainstorming, and hearing a story about how I started to get out of this pattern, then the rest might be for you. I am not trained in anything, just my own life and what got me to where I am. Please don't take my word as anything other than a wild stranger on the internet.

I've also always been someone who gives A LOT to relationships- and remarkably, have always managed to find people who are emotionally unavailable and unable to meet me where I am. I always found myself giving and giving and giving until there was no "me" left, and then being resentful and angry that the people I was giving to weren't reciprocating. Couldn't they see that I loved them unconditionally, and also, it's not fair to never give anything back? In times that I have brought this up, they've said, well, if it's true love, you wouldn't expect anything back! Well, I don't, but I also can't live in one sided relationships.

Over the last year or so, my husband and I's marriage has gotten really really bad- right now, we're separated and he's telling me he's going to end it. I'm sure that we can resolve it and am not sharing this to elicit any sympathy or anything like that- I'm a fighter too! But I do want to give that as some background for why I suddenly managed to find a way out of where I had been- and while I'm not to the end line yet, I can finally see a finish line- a real one.

As my marriage got harder and harder, I could feel myself holding on tighter and tighter. I got really angry and just one day quit doing a lot of extra work. I stopped cleaning the house, stopped being the one to organize things for him, stopped trying so hard to just bend over backwards when my needs weren't being met. I started giving myself permission to have a life. Alongside this, I got really REALLY angry- I am absolutely not proud of the person I was while I was angry, but I was there. I wish I could have processed it more effectively- like yelling in the car instead of AT my husband. But alas, I'm not perfect and can't ever pretend to be.

Then, I got a new therapist who introduced me to attachment work. I found out that I was anxious/avoidant -- aka super insecure. I was pushing away from people so they could never get close, and if I ever did manage to let anyone in, I let them in and then clung to them until I pushed them away. I did it over and over and over again. In the last 3/4 months, I've been focusing on little actions that I could take to move my tendencies- and managed to at least stop avoiding letting other people in. A little win. One thing that really surprised me was that someone that I consider to be my best friend I had scored as super anxious with- in other words, she was close to me, but I was scared she would leave me at any time. I thought about how to challenge that and realized that mostly it was about giving her the opportunity to reject me. Little things- would she take my phone calls? Would she respond to my texts? Would she call me back?

And she did. She did over and over again.

One relationship moved to secure.

Then, my husband asked for a divorce. I got thrown into the worst situation my anxious little self could imagine. I was moving out of my house, begging for a trial separation, having a panic attack- all at once. I poured out my story to my sister, to my brother, to my dad- and all of a sudden- there it was, a peace washing over me. I have heard that crisis can speed up attachment work, but I hope you don't have to have that experience. I gave them all the opportunity to reject me- and what I found instead was my family, not the BPD one, but the rest of my family, standing firmly behind me, telling me they'd be there no matter what- no matter how my marriage turned out. I didn't have a choice but to give others the option to leave me- and when I gave them the option to be PLEASE READty to me, they all stepped up.

Then, as I started to feel a little bit better, I also started to explore codependency. And holy PLEASE READ! I thought this stuff was for drug addicts- but nope! Also for people who grew up being forced to be caretakers. The world opened up to me-- and more importantly- my anger in those earlier times in my marriage made sense. I was angry that I was again the caretaker- that I was again managing someone who was supposed to be an adult- that I was again tired and feeling like I'd be abandoned every day. No wonder I was so angry! That's a sign of moving out of codependency!

All of this to say- attachment and codependency are two things that I had never heard of before- or at least never given any thought to. Once I started to do that work, the world has gotten easier. Not like easy easy- I still have a lot going on and I'm still struggling with the fear of being thrown away again- I'm not sure what will happen in my marriage, after all, which I desperately want to save. But I do know that I am healing- finally- and that without healing my attachment wounds and working through my own codependent patterns, there is no way I will ever have any healthy relationship.

If you want them, some book recommendations that I've found particularly helpful:

Attached: Amir Levine
Insecure in Love: Leslie Becker Phelps
Getting the Love You Want: Harville Hendrix and Helen LaKelley Hunt
Codependent No More : Melody Beattie
The New Codependency: Melody Beattie

and an attachment quiz that you might like to take: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/tests/relationships/relationship-attachment-style-test

Good luck- hang in there- I'm rooting for you!

[Mommydoc]

I am impressed with your self awareness. It took me time to get there and to make the needed personal changes.   You have literally done the hardest part!   

There are often times red flags that I ignore because I am addictedto feeling needed.

I am in healthcare and the oldest child.  I consider myself a “giver” and love the feeling of being needed and helping others.   I view that as one of my personal gifts, and it is part of what I like about myself.  My mom is the same and I always wanted to emulate her.  What I realized is that I needed to increase the # of givers in my life and reduce the takers in my life.   

Like you , the problem was when I ignored the “ red flags” and kept  giving to those in my life who never reciprocated.   In the case of my uBPD sibling, it was out of a sense of obligation and guilt.  (Still a huge challenge this site is helping me with)

I am still a giver, but I would call myself a “ reformed” giver.  A strength overused can be a weakness or vulnerability.  Now, in most of my relationships, I still give without expectation of reciprocation, but I have a greater awareness of the red flags.   And when I see them, I adjust.  I do not get angry, I don’t get resentful, I just stop investing as much and create some boundaries and distance.  More importantly, I now invest a lot more energy into my relationships with fellow “givers”. There are so many others out there, you just have to find them.  You deserve it!

Now if I could just translate this to my relationship with my uBPD sibling.

[Methuen]

Hey imatter

I'm just checking in...to see how you are doing?

[Imatter33]

Hey all,

I sincerely appreciate the anecdotes and support.

Nothinggoodgetsaway: You said a lot but I found it all had value!

I have been just living life. It never ceases to amaze me how awareness comes and it feels life changing, but it is only the FIRST step in change.
I feel like I ride a merry go round sometimes.

Haven't I learned this lesson yet? Or I haven't I  seen this lesson somewhere else in my life?...hmm.
 Nice to see you again Mr. Lesson.  NOT! 

I have some knowledge on codependency and attachment and know that my style is not secure...Yet.

What I realized is that I needed to increase the # of givers in my life and reduce the takers in my life.   


I am still a giver, but I would call myself a “ reformed” giver.  A strength overused can be a weakness or vulnerability.  Now, in most of my relationships, I still give without expectation of reciprocation, but I have a greater awareness of the red flags.   And when I see them, I adjust.  I do not get angry, I don’t get resentful, I just stop investing as much and create some boundaries and distance.  More importantly, I now invest a lot more energy into my relationships with fellow “givers”. There are so many others out there, you just have to find them.  You deserve it!

Now if I could just translate this to my relationship with my uBPD sibling.

( If I could translate it into a relationship with my mom it would feel like a miracle..but that is a different post)

The part I bolded sticks out to me but it is also the hardest. Giving without expectation. How does one feel secure enough to do that for people? I guess if the givers and takers were balanced out in my life it wouldn't even be noticeable. giving is a natural high that many people enjoy.

So I will keep doing that but I have a ways to go.

Thanks all.

[beatricex]

hi Imatter33,
This is an interesting observation you have made, about giving and taking.  About friendships, in general, and regarding codependency.

Really, I wish I knew one person like you in my 3D life, because a lot of times I feel I'm banging my head against a wall trying to get people I know (ie my family) to see their codependency! 

I just wanted to say I have no insight, but I've been posting here for like months now, and your post just had a lot of clarity for me, and I thought "that's what I want to be like, like Imatter33"...you know, when I'm enlightened.



seriosuly though, this hard work is called "work" cause it sux and it's hard!

b

[NayaDee]

I can relate to this on so many levels. It has been a constant struggle for me to ask for my own needs to be met and not just give. I love being needed and often give more than is healthy. I don't really have much advice yet because I am only just beginning to work on the skills to assert my own needs and ensure they are being met. So just know that you aren't alone and it may take awhile to find the right friendship/ relationship that is both giving and taking.

My current partner is absolutely amazing and knows I struggle with this. He prompts me in small ways, like having me choose what I want to watch or where to go for supper. He also calls me out when I try to turn the questions back on him. It's a way to work on these skills in a low risk way. He also is frequently checking in with me and how I'm feeling. Sometimes, when I have been giving too much he stops me and refuses to continue what we were doing until I have expressed my own needs.

It took me many years of being single and many bad dates to find him. How I stumbled upon him I have no idea but I know it will happen for you too! They key is to not give up but also to not put up with anything less than what you deserve and need.

I don't know how helpful this has been but recognizing our faults is the first step to healing! Now we just need to practice and hopefully build up our own self worth enough to feel comfortable with receiving rather than needing to be needed.