How can I continue to live with this?

[ATEB9]

Hello,
I have a spouse with some pretty severe issues. He is either stoned and happy but out of it or sober and angry, distant, rude, mean. He doesn't work. He doesn't take showers. He doesn't help with things that need to occur other than a few things he likes to do- such as dishes and laundry inexplicably. He doesn't talk to me. He watches tv and plays video games or is on his phone from 4 am until 8 pm when he falls asleep. I need to stay in this marraige because I fear how he would behave if I tried to get out of this situation. I may not be able to continue indefinately but for now I am stuck in this. There is no way to get help because he is either unaware of what he acts like, is dishonest about his behavior when we go to therapy or when he goes by himself, doesnt remember discussions we have had and he is also completely lacking in any empathy and self reflection. He is 100% all about himself and unaware/uncaring of his impact on others unless it is because he feels occasionally horrible about himself. I partially do not even want to talk about this because I feel like it won't change anything then I am left with feelings stirred up and floating around but yet nothing can be done.

The best I can hope for is to be totally neutral all the time, ask for absolutely nothing- no help, no interaction- just facilitate life for him and our 8 year old daughter. He does love our daughter- but she is old enough to realize that he is not right. She will only continue to notice as she gets older that what he acts like/what he does all day is not normal.

He used to be emotionally abusive but at one point I called the police on him and he was arrested and charged with two felony counts of assault and battery and intimidation of a witness (both on me) but he was remorseful of what happened at that time and I decided to try to work everything out. I was able to - as a spouse- not provide support to charges in court so it was dropped. It still shows officially that he was charge but not convicted and we had to petition the court so they sealed this from employers in case he wanted to work. (He did get a job substitute teaching after this- but he was fired after three months due to his behavior and attitude- all similar things that I did with at home- which he blamed the school for and did not reflect on himself)

After this- he no longer threatens me but all the other behavior continues with no hope of changing.

I will potentially stay until our child is 18 or until I can afford getting out. I worry he has "nothing to lose" and will be dangerous if I try to get out- particularly before our child is 18 but even after. I have no proof that I could show a judge other than his arrest record- and that was only once although there were hundreds of times worse than that one time where I never called the police. 

Again- now I have learned how to keep everything neutral and its ok as long as I dont think about my life. If I do- I get really sad that this is how things are and it makes me want to plan for getting out.

How does one live like this? Does this sound like anything anyone else is dealing with?

[ATEB9]

I realize possibly in my post it might sound like my spouse is depressed. I think he is but the behavior disorder type of things he displays are: sudden change in mood (from neutral to angry or angry to happy or slightly engaged to completely detached) with no clear trigger, extreme reaction to things- getting really upset and saying or doing things that will have negative impact (like threatening to hurt himself or others, leaving the family, throwing things, leaving the house in the middle of the night), not being able to recognize he is in a cycle of dwelling on random negative things and allowing this to make him upset or unresponsive (getting so upset about the death of an acqaintance that he never really saw or spoke to that he stays alone in a room for 8 hours, doesnt want to eat) (getting upset for months about COVID when he never leaves the house anyway or sees anyone- but gets very worried about dying from it), spending YEARS disconnected from people by watching TV for 14 hours a day or on video games or on reddit/phone apps but not really speaking to anyone - actually being irrirated if interrupted (by me or his child), having in depth discussions about what marriage or behavioural issues are going on and actively admitting to parts that he owns and can resolve- then later not remembering the discussion, saying or doing things then not remembering them or remembering totally different circumstances. Admitting proudly and freequently not having any sense of empathy- then other times claiming to have never said this- but absolutely never having any sense of empathy.

If this is all normal behaviour and I am overreacting- please let me know.

[worriedStepmom]

This is not normal behavior.  I'm sad for you that you are so scared of his reaction that you can't think about leaving.

Would you be willing to talk to a domestic violence counselor (or call the domestic violence hotline) to talk about your situation?  They may be able to help you with resources to keep you and your child safe.

[Bertha88]

ATEB9,

First and foremost, I want you to know that you are NOT alone.  Your situation sounds very similar to mine.  uBPDh for 25 years of our marriage has myopic vision (classic "my way or the highway" on most things), no empathy, likely deep-seated fears of abandonment which play out in various scenarios, and a history of verbal abuse and very occasional physical abuse.  One time he pushed me and I was shocked and my son saw it and was traumatized.  The next time, I instinctively called 911, so he too went to jail.  One great memory of that is the County Sherriff and a policeman standing in my foyer (uBPDh was in the back seat of the patrol car), hearing from me and telling me what would happen and making sure I was OK.  It's actually (ironically, given the extreme situation) a good memory of a bad situation.

I prayed for wisdom the other day after the millionth transgression had me stewing... then opened Walking on Eggshells to a page on setting boundaries--which, at 59 and after 25 years of marriage, I'm starting to actually practice.  I feel for you b/c with younger children you are so torn trying to meet their needs that you can't devote as much time to the needed self-care and reading which help to cope with such a partner.

I relate to you also about the sadness I feel (I call it grief) when I realize there is little chance for intimacy, nor for care for me, in this situation.  Friends have asked, "Why do you stay?"  Well, isn't that the million-dollar question!

You sound like you've evaluated your options and are wise and careful, given your situation.  There are things to strengthen, such as boundary-setting, self-care, support network for yourself, and tools for dealing w BPDs such as validation and steering from intense emotional issues as much as possible.

Communicating openly with your daughter (not the same as "running him down," but validating her feelings) is important, and it sounds like you are doing that.  It's also good to hear you state that he loves her.  My husband "loves" his family, but we tend to be objects in service to him, more because he doesn't really have the capability to connect on an emotional level to someone else.  He's great fun on trips, has introduced the kids to cool sports like skiing, but rules with a heavy hand at home and has mostly alienated them over the years (they are now 19, 22, & 24--the younger 2 still at home working/in school).

I wish you well from the bottom of my heart.  We're here for you!

[Bertha88]

One more thing:  it's OK to think through your options.

For years I had this "stay at all costs and work at making this better" idea.  I would still love for that to happen, but it often seems like a long shot.

So, largely because our children are now pretty independent, I have begun to think of things, practical things, that I can do. In our case, finances are comingled, so I have some "what-if" thinking on that end.  Also just pragmatic issues, day-to-day stuff, like refusing to ride with him if he's been drinking.  (Big scene on that one a week ago; I held my ground.  Big step for me.)

So, think about your options.  It helps me sometimes to say to myself, "You have options!"

[Bertha88]

Hi all,

I need support. Feeling incredibly sad.  I've realized, and am committed to, the importance of maintaining boundaries.  But doing so while living with an uBPDh is nearly impossible.  He's leaving me alone but is clearly in pain.  We both are.  I find myself spending a lot of this holiday weekend (when there is so much else to do) reading, journaling, and now posting.  It's as if I'm trying to soothe my aching heart.  Always looking for the magic bullet to take the pain away.

Made a practical list this morning of "Necessary Actions."  First was self-care.  Doing that imperfectly, but doing it.  I realize it's critical.  Second was the financial stuff I've posted on previously.  How exactly to disentangle finances without alarming my uBPDh (who is a financial planner by profession!) is beyond tricky.  But I'm starting with balancing our checkbook.  My real goal is to see what's going on with the spending and income.  It took him 2 weeks to provide me the passwords to our joint account.  I plan to open my own account soon, but again fear that overwhelming him in this arena may backfire on me.  He needs to understand that my motive is to align the use of my hard-earned income with priorities and values that matter to me, which is a contrast to how it's been:  my income is direct-deposited and he buys whatever he wants and chastises me for the littlest expense on my part if he disagrees (e.g., "Who went to McDonald's?")  Sounds so ludicrous if you're not living it.  And yes, I played a role in all this by allowing it.  Also, I was so overwhelmed with my roles as Mom and F/T employee that I just surrendered my power (plus, of course, he berated me at every turn for my differences of opinion, and I would say to myself "It's only money" b/c it was higher priority to keep myself and our children protected from his emotional abuse in other areas).

Third, after the financial moves (I'm going to speak with a lawyer to understand some of the technicalities of how accounts/policies/property are split) comes a third area of concern.  He's of course confused and hurting and wants to know "where we are going."  I am in the best position of all the people in his life to encourage him toward help.  I believe to my core that he has BPD, but he's undiagnosed.  In his mind, the problems are all outside him.  So absolutely NO interest in "getting help," since it's me/others that need it!  Due to recent bizarre behaviors too numerous to expound on here (but I've posted elsewhere), I think he may be in a degenerative phase... Wondering if he has a brain injury (he has some history of accidents which could definitely cause one), so would like to suggest he get a brain scan.  Also, he's begun drinking after 17 years of sobriety.  Needs to return to AA, but so far no move there.  Not my call.  Finally, there's the whole thing of a diagnosis.  I know I cannot make him seek help, but it's the one thing the kids & I wish for beyond all else.

As far as relating to him, I will try to practice Active Empathetic Listening.  Hard to do b/c I basically can't stand the sight of him right now.  But yeah, I know there are things I can do to help him, short of all the grand hopes and dreams stated in the previous paragraph.

The trick for me is not to lose myself in the process.

There are people in my life (2, specifically) who would tell me to pack my bags and leave today.  There are others who appreciate my dilemma and support me where I am.  I appreciate both perspectives.  Then, there are the others (e.g., his parents) who I fear would be devastated by a split (they know a lot about our situation and are somewhat supportive of me, but when the chips are down, blood's thicker than water).  I cannot dwell on the impact of a split to those people because it keeps me stuck and puts their needs above my own.

So.  All this, and I'm not saying I'm filing for divorce.  That prospect is so, so sad to me.  But so is living like this!  I'm just taking steps to discern my options and to protect myself as best I can.

And feeling sad.  Very sad.  Thank you for reading this if you made it this far!  I love you all.  This site is a lifeline!

[Becks79]

Hello
Reading your post in many respects echoes how I feel about my partner of 16 years.  He’s extremely changeable and now seems in a perpetual state of annoyance about anything that annoys him (including anything I do wrong) there is always an immense rage/tantrum at least once a month which is mind blowing to witness. YET there is a pained /wounded and sensitive man also who does self reflect after blow ups.  I’m the one that now can’t stand this other man, take the awful sweeping criticisms then the neediness.
I too have been told by friends to leave.  I have no friends and do not tell my issues to my family or anyone  as that’s a whole other story.  So I just have this site and a counsellor to talk to.
There are glimmers of hope when he’s calm and upbeat, he can be sensitive and kind and it always lulls me into a false sense of security then bang something triggers him and he’s mean , condescending and raging . My partner too has held many jobs done good ones, and like your partner,  his behaviour and emotional outbursts towards other staff have meant he hasn’t kept jobs.  I shouldn’t say this but he has stopped smoking weed for 6 months now, the weed gave me a little respite but when he hadn’t got any he was like a caged irrational and even more angry lion than ever.
There has been physical assaults years passed now  because of the huge explosive extremes, I too used to get very angry at him instead of walking away I did not know about BPD or emotional dyseregulation until 5 years ago when I supported him with a mental break down.  The mental health hospital finally assessed he had emotional deregulation possible adhd and bpd.  The rib is the treatment hasn’t come through and he refuses to pay privately.  both are still untreated by the mental health hospital.

I too feel numbed and like I can’t stand the sight of the one part of him, but I don’t leave? There are different components I live about him but it is the dark ones that spoil him and have made me loose faith in our relationship.
I too find comfort in this site.  I have no one who understand me and no one who doesn’t judge me or find me annoying for staying with him.
I have become a lonely person but ironically we do everything together so sometimes I’m at fault for not putting in any me time and creating boundaries! 
God what to do! ?

[Bertha88]

Hello,

I was re-reading this thread and have some things to add.  I'm pretty clumsy with Excerpts at this point so will just reference words in the previous posts for now.

To ATEB9:

Feeling "neutral" - keeping things "neutral" - we all have to do what we have to do at the time.  I understand that's helping you cope with a rough situation, and I relate completely to the sadness that comes along with the loss of a more balanced and mature relationship.

I do agree with worriedStepMom that your BPDh's behaviors are not normal, and to consider resources and options available.  It does sound like you recognize abusive situations, so if you're tolerating them, why?  Getting clarification and support on this can only be helpful.  I too have tolerated a boatload of emotional abuse, and I've allowed my children to be subjected to it over the years.  Yesterday I wrote on an index card that my desire is to have a "zero tolerance" policy for abuse.  What that actually looks like remains to be seen, but I highly recommend the book The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder.  I'm reading it now and am READY for some of the tools in it!

I find it very interesting that your specific examples of your BPDh's behaviors include seclusion after the death of an acquaintance and the COVID fears.  Sounds like, deep down, he has a strong fear of dying--and yet some of his behaviors sound (forgive me!) like a living death.  Wonder what's underneath all that.  Perhaps it's counterproductive to contemplate.  We're supposed to keep the focus on ourselves generally, aren't we?  (IDK on this one.  For me, understanding my BPD's history, family of origin, motivations, has helped me cope.)

To Becks79:

Don't apologize for being relieved with the pot-smoking.  I totally relate to that.  We non-BPs crave relief from the chaos/rants/disturbing situations we live in, so anything to tame the BorderLION is a gift.

Putting in more "me" time and creating boundaries:  yeah, for me, that's where it's at these days.  My BPD makes it really hard b/c he claims I'm being selfish, etc., so I know I have a hard road ahead.  But the book I referenced above says it does get better with practice, even for the BP.  One key realization for me was that without better boundaries (which translates to honoring myself in this relationship), it's no good for HIM, either.  I mean, "going along to get along" when I'm full of resentment:  that's not what he wants, either.

To both:

You both posted about times when your BP is contrite/can admit to faults/is "kind."  Wow, I don't see much of that in mine, at least not lately.  That may reflect the intensity level we've reached, not sure.  I did find a letter from years ago when my BP was in recovery with profuse and sincere apologies to me and the children.  I too know there is a "pained/wounded and sensitive man" in there.  Of course, that's part of why I've stayed.  Right now I am working on separating that degree of awareness/compassion from what I'm willing to live with.  I guess that's where the rubber hits the road for so many of us!

I'm going to close with a repeat of something a wise person on this board told me early on.  ATEB9, you asked:  "How does one live like this?"  Here's a start:

1. Build your support system - Coping with a BPD loved one's illness is impossible to do alone.  I relate to one of you who said that all you have is this site and your counselor.  I am in the same boat and I feel like I need more.  I've been sharing openly with trusted friends and family because my situation has reached that point, and it is reassuring to know that others see/"get" the situation and can offer some form of support to me.  I guess for me, the shame from being honest is less than the cost of continuing "as is."  This is fairly recent and may have to do with my stage of life (an almost-empty nester).

2. Use the tools from this site and other resources.

3. Ask yourself the hard question, why you stay.  It doesn't mean you are leaving, but as my friend on this board said:  "working through fears keeps our motivations clear."  And he also said there are many reasons he stayed, some good and some bad.  It's just good to have an inventory of your own, and to debunk the "bad" ones as you're able.  Clarity is such a gift in these difficult relationships.

I wish you both the best.  Stay connected!