Triggered by narcissist stranger

[Sappho11]

So I was out in a café with a friend today. The café has a piano, and about five minutes within our arrival, another guest, some foreign kid, early twenties, very pretty face, starts playing a lesser-known Chopin waltz – VERY, very badly.

You might already know that I professionally play and teach the piano. So the last thing I want to hear when I'm out relaxing in a café is someone butchering music. I gritted my teeth, hoping he'd go away. He didn't. Thankfully, nobody clapped. (My hometown is justly snobbish about music.)

He proceeded to butcher the first couple of measures of the Minute Waltz, which is one of the easiest Chopin pieces in existence. Every fibre in me was screaming. WHY on Earth did that guy think he could impose upon an entire café crammed with people? – I should add: That kind of behaviour is virtually unheard-of around here. Waiters are notoriously strict, and pianos tend to be locked. And if you're not the house musician, there's no touching the ivories, even if you've played Carnegie Hall the night before. It was quite an exceptionally unfortunate situation.

The waiter didn't do anything, nor did he know who that kid was or why he was playing. I knew, why: Because he wanted admiration for his cheap tricks. There was no musicality, no striving for perfection in pursuit of a greater good – only a selfish yearning for supply. At the cost of human culture's highest intellectual and emotional achievement, no less.

When he started plunking out scales, I got up and told him: "Could you please practise at home?" He didn't speak the local language, so I repeated it in English, adding much more mildly than merited, "What makes you think you can subject the entire café to this kind of shoddy playing?". He glared and glowered at me with silent fury – and when I left, resumed "playing".

I went back to my table and asked the waiter to get him to stop. The waiter was a big, muscly-looking man, and the kid abandoned the piano immediately.

So far, so harmless. Just another idiot, just another day.

My friend and I eventually left the café, and suddenly my friend said, "Look". The talentless kid was giving me the two-fingered " off" gesture from inside the window.

So I went back to the building (the kid's friend, who looked like the stereotypical narcissist sidekick, was laughing when he saw me coming), knocked on the window, and the pretty little coward was sullenly staring straight ahead, not even looking at me. I considered going back in and giving him a piece of my mind; instead, I gestured "idiot" back at him and left. Not a classy move by a long shot, and I regret that.

Now it's several hours later, and I'm still angry. Here I am, a pro musician who's been in business for over a decade, getting worked up about some talentless juvenile fake with a pretty face, giving me the finger. It only just occurred to me that classical music is intensely hierarchical, almost like the military (you wouldn't believe how many pro musicians come from military families), and during my professional lifetime, I've never been disrespected like that. Now I understand why people used to fight duels.

Thankfully, people such as talentless pretty-boy never actually make it far in the business. I just hate the fact that idiots like that exist at all – incompetent know-nothings who think they deserve praise and admiration when they don't. The sad thing is, many of those could actually amount to something if they only embraced a growth mindset and accepted other people's advice, instead of instantly turning into a flaming ball of rage and entitlement.

I also hate the fact that I brought up a valid point (that guy's playing was horrendous), and instead of the situation being remedied (i. e. that guy saying "I'm so sorry, I'll leave it" and stopping) I was punished and insulted for speaking up.

Both of this reminded me of my good-for-nothing ex, who would exhibit exactly the same behaviour, expecting recognition for talents he didn't have, things he didn't do, and turning into a chimaera of anger and shame when recognition wasn't forthcoming, and then lashing out at me for his own faults and deficits.

Long story short, old neuronal pathways got reactivated today.

A lot of extremely good things have been happening lately, and this is just a snapshot, but I didn't know where else to put this mentally, so I thought here would be good.

In writing this post, I figured it might also help to complain to the café directly, so I've shot them a brief email. We'll see.

[grumpydonut]

It sounds like you were looking for someone on the narcissistic spectrum to act how you would act.

I also hate the fact that I brought up a valid point (that guy's playing was horrendous), and instead of the situation being remedied (i. e. that guy saying "I'm so sorry, I'll leave it" and stopping) I was punished and insulted for speaking up.

Australian culture is likely very different to European culture, so perhaps this isn't an accurate assessment, but in Australia it would be considered unreasonable to expect a stranger to react agreeably to being told they're terrible at something - regardless of how true it is.

Long story short, old neuronal pathways got reactivated today.

You've obviously got a lot of psychological knowledge. So yes, what just happened was likely "spontaneous recovery" of a previously conditioned response to this sort of stimuli - which will get weaker with time.

[Ad Meliora]

We hear you Sappho.  Not every day is going to be peaches and cream, especially when some inappropriate behavior reminds us of our BPDex.  Would it have been better if he just played "Chopsticks" and left?    What does that kid matter to you anyway and why should you let him/it affect your emotional well being?  I'm saying no need to feed the dog here referring to the sitting bull quote.

“Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.”


― Sitting Bull

[Sappho11]

It sounds like you were looking for someone on the narcissistic spectrum to act how you would act.

That's it. I keep forgetting they operate in a completely different frame of mind.

Australian culture is likely very different to European culture, so perhaps this isn't an accurate assessment, but in Australia it would be considered unreasonable to expect a stranger to react agreeably to being told they're terrible at something - regardless of how true it is.

Very valid point, you're right. Telling someone "you suck" doesn't generally go over well here, either. I tried to phrase it as mildly as I could, but it's true I don't have an unbiased perspective on the matter.

Harsh criticism is common practice in the classical music business, to the point where you just get used to it. You're pretty much told from childhood onwards: "This isn't good enough yet – do better." And most times, that's good advice – music is a difficult art to master, so I've always found that fair enough. But there are many people who disagree, and they tend to drop out of music careers and start over with a "civilian" one instead, where they aren't hassled all the time. I get it, it's not for everyone.

Thinking of it now, I'm almost certain that kid probably had no formal training short of private piano lessons. Not only that the performance lacked musicality, but also – a trained musician, even a child, wouldn't give lip to someone asking them to stop playing – let alone give them the finger.

Classic case of narcissistic injury, I suppose.

You've obviously got a lot of psychological knowledge. So yes, what just happened was likely "spontaneous recovery" of a previously conditioned response to this sort of stimuli - which will get weaker with time.

Yes to that, too. Thank you.

[Sappho11]

We hear you Sappho.  Not every day is going to be peaches and cream, especially when some inappropriate behavior reminds us of our BPDex.  Would it have been better if he just played "Chopsticks" and left?  

Actually, if he had played it well, yes! I suppose that was part of what made me so angry. You can tell when someone enjoys music and plays it for its own sake. I love seeing that! I'll take an adult beginner playing "Chopsticks" with sparkly eyes and good musical expression over a fake "wunderkind" mechanically playing Chopin etudes, any day of the week.

It's insulting even when the technique is good (because it reduces the emotional depth of music to a mere monkey trick), and it's unforgiveable if the technique is poor.

And when the player then demands recognition and admiration for mistreating music this way? That gets my blood boiling. The impertinence!

And then cowardly giving me the finger from behind the window – that literally adds insult to injury. All from one person. It's beyond words.

What does that kid matter to you anyway and why should you let him/it affect your emotional well being?  I'm saying no need to feed the dog here referring to the sitting bull quote.

“Inside of me there are two dogs. One is mean and evil and the other is good and they fight each other all the time. When asked which one wins I answer, the one I feed the most.”


― Sitting Bull

Very wise! Thank you. I do feel a lot better today.

[once removed]

Both of this reminded me of my good-for-nothing ex

do you think you were seeing your ex in this person?

[Sappho11]

do you think you were seeing your ex in this person?

Not primarily, no. What got me was the ill-treatment of music (70%) and the disrespect (30%).

My ex was just an afterthought. I've always hated incompetence and injustice, but my last relationship put an additional chip on my shoulder in that regard.

That relationship changed my view of the world, and it shows in the smallest things. The other day I was watching a show I used to love, and while I used to like the "charismatic" protagonist, it now bothered me how narcissistic and toxic that character was behaving towards everyone else.

[Cromwell]

How do you feel about it in terms of the experience being positive /negative

Personality disorders and the variations where unknown to me except pop culture level. I think it stands to reason the more you study a field the more likely to be more aware and potentially label the pheomena. Is this what's going on? It sounds like what i went through, a lot of too quick profiling too but this was due to soon after the relsitonhship, still edgy.

Today its more intuitive without bothering. What am i hoping to point out is it will become a learning anchor eventually once the emotional involvement has detangled from the wider more dusty book academic neutrality of the subject. In other words, the more you learn the more boring they get

[poppy2]

Hey Sappho,

So first of all, I'm sorry you got triggered. Like one of the other commentators I had to wonder, reading your story, as to whether or not you saw your ex in this person and that is what incensed you so much - their disregard of something you find valuable. I think you wrote that wasn't the case but it really wouldn't surprise me if on a residual level, as you say, you are far more sensitive now to narcissistic behaviours. Unfortunately, in my opinion we carry over these de-humanizing behaviours we recieved from others into the world and have to find a new way for ourselves to distance or detach from them. Apart from his juvenile behaviour towards you, I wonder if in the future you could see such a boy as immature, incompetent, or out of line/presumtuously entitled? That is the way i read the story as a dispassionate observor. Yes, it's not fair, but it's also not fair your day gets ruined by somebody else's behaviour.

For what it's worth, I can understand where you're coming from with the music. My sister has perfect pitch and it was 'painful' to her to hear things that weren't in 'accord' or out of tune (like my singing). So that is the other side - you are sensitive and talented in one area and therefore feel its transgressions far more keenly. But I feel like the sensitivity to narcissistic or entitled behaviour speaks to more than that and I agree and hope with Cromwell that the more detachment is reached the more it is possible to *truly* overcome the triggers... by being indifferent to them (in the case of this story, that could mean complaining to the management and not getting involved with such a person yourself). Indifference is what destroys the narcissist (easy to say, I know.)

But that is just speaking from a long term, hopeful perspective. I was horribly triggered yesterday when I realized I couldn't even enter a strangers flat anymore, as even that fundamental trust had been broken by my BPD ex. So detachment and overcoming through knowledge must take a very long time after being exposed to these psychic wounds, and I think vicarious rage, feelings of injustice, and the wish to 'make things right' belong to that emotional territory (for me). I also think that *only* further positive attachment outside of their toxic field are what will *really* make me feel better (I don't want to presume to say what might make you feel better but I hope my perspective is helpful), so that one day I just think - who cares about PDs anymore, I don't have one and I'll navigate my way far away from anybody with them.

Hope you're feeling better, poppy

[Sappho11]

How do you feel about it in terms of the experience being positive /negative

Personality disorders and the variations where unknown to me except pop culture level. I think it stands to reason the more you study a field the more likely to be more aware and potentially label the pheomena. Is this what's going on? It sounds like what i went through, a lot of too quick profiling too but this was due to soon after the relsitonhship, still edgy.

Today its more intuitive without bothering. What am i hoping to point out is it will become a learning anchor eventually once the emotional involvement has detangled from the wider more dusty book academic neutrality of the subject. In other words, the more you learn the more boring they get

Thank you Cromwell, I'm definitely guilty of the quick profiling now, too. Suddenly I see narcissists everywhere; but part of that reason might be that the arts attract them like honey attracts flies. A couple of weeks ago I read that up to 50% of people who work in music and entertainment meet the criteria for an NPD diagnosis. Can't say I'm surprised.

To be frank, I'm not bothered by the encounter anymore. That's the good part of having a temperament that's equal parts choleric and sanguine: quick to anger, quick to forget.

Hey Sappho,

So first of all, I'm sorry you got triggered. Like one of the other commentators I had to wonder, reading your story, as to whether or not you saw your ex in this person and that is what incensed you so much - their disregard of something you find valuable. I think you wrote that wasn't the case but it really wouldn't surprise me if on a residual level, as you say, you are far more sensitive now to narcissistic behaviours. Unfortunately, in my opinion we carry over these de-humanizing behaviours we recieved from others into the world and have to find a new way for ourselves to distance or detach from them. Apart from his juvenile behaviour towards you, I wonder if in the future you could see such a boy as immature, incompetent, or out of line/presumtuously entitled? That is the way i read the story as a dispassionate observor. Yes, it's not fair, but it's also not fair your day gets ruined by somebody else's behaviour.

For what it's worth, I can understand where you're coming from with the music. My sister has perfect pitch and it was 'painful' to her to hear things that weren't in 'accord' or out of tune (like my singing). So that is the other side - you are sensitive and talented in one area and therefore feel its transgressions far more keenly. But I feel like the sensitivity to narcissistic or entitled behaviour speaks to more than that and I agree and hope with Cromwell that the more detachment is reached the more it is possible to *truly* overcome the triggers... by being indifferent to them (in the case of this story, that could mean complaining to the management and not getting involved with such a person yourself). Indifference is what destroys the narcissist (easy to say, I know.

Thank you, poppy. And you are right. It would have been a lot smarter to let management deal with it – unfortunately, management didn't do anything. I'm used to walking up to strangers and asking them to cut out unnecessary noise (my pet peeve: people who listen to music or the news on public transport on loudspeaker). Plenty of those interactions are unpleasant for both parties involved, but this one felt personal because the subject matter was; and not least because it happened in one of my local haunts, which is usually a haven from noise.

But that is just speaking from a long term, hopeful perspective. I was horribly triggered yesterday when I realized I couldn't even enter a strangers flat anymore, as even that fundamental trust had been broken by my BPD ex. So detachment and overcoming through knowledge must take a very long time after being exposed to these psychic wounds, and I think vicarious rage, feelings of injustice, and the wish to 'make things right' belong to that emotional territory (for me). I also think that *only* further positive attachment outside of their toxic field are what will *really* make me feel better (I don't want to presume to say what might make you feel better but I hope my perspective is helpful), so that one day I just think - who cares about PDs anymore, I don't have one and I'll navigate my way far away from anybody with them.

Hope you're feeling better, poppy

I'm sorry to hear you got triggered! And you are right – positive attachment to healthy matters and healthy people is definitely the best medicine.

Starting over with a positive life is a bit like starting a new fitness regime. At first the new exercises make you feel fatigued very quickly. Your muscles soon catch up, within four or five weeks. But the sinews and bones, they take a lot longer to adjust to the new challenges. So you'll feel weary and tired for a couple of months, or even for a year, until all the moving parts in your body are acting in perfect harmony again, and this time in a better, more resilient one.

[poppy2]

Starting over with a positive life is a bit like starting a new fitness regime. At first the new exercises make you feel fatigued very quickly. Your muscles soon catch up, within four or five weeks. But the sinews and bones, they take a lot longer to adjust to the new challenges. So you'll feel weary and tired for a couple of months, or even for a year, until all the moving parts in your body are acting in perfect harmony again, and this time in a better, more resilient one.

If you don't have a disability, I think looking at it like this is really positive - like a new workout regime, but for the psyche. The idea of "wholeness" or "perfect harmony" is something I can totally remember my body feeling before I developed a disability, and also that long, slow grind in the gym was very rewarding. There are still ways of reaching this for me, but with more gentle activities: like swimming, qi gong and yoga. You know I wonder if it would be far more beneficial if, instead of all those "what is BPD youtube channels" (don't know if you've gone there, but it's a huge sub-industry for discarded souls) there was simply "psychic workouts for BPD/NPD survivors" videos, steps 1-50 .. because that is really the goal - developing the muscles for positive attachment again

[Cromwell]

Im not an expert on how to deal with NPDs. Traits are abundant though, i wonder about a few in the gym, also in health professions and academia.

Id be more likely to call out narcissist than npd, if enough traits to then present as robust evidence. If it was 'you are narcissistic personality disordered' id be concerned some wise guy responding 'Prove it then!". Id be stuck and i hate it when the other says something and i get stuck.

So far post bpd relationship I've had half a decade of herculean like self control and no annoying persons, whatever they are, have kept their noses unbroken. Id call that extraordinary accomplishment under highly pressured circumstances. Its maybe one for those future interview questions

'can you tell me a time you coped under intense pressure'

And id have an amazing story to tell of my ex and post relationship. Or i maybe just answer 'yes I can tell you of a time but I won't'

I guess my disdain and prejudice for pwNPD is lower on the list than those who work in HR and whatever work psychologists who create these tests. That's a good tip that helped me Sappho, to go beyond the immediate point of irritation and see that they are 'just another...' in a world full of them of different varieties.

My ex with BPD got my goat more than anyone else ever has or will, Bevause i regretted loving her. The upside is, once through that, no new screensavers can get remotely close to ever accomplishing the same.

Glad you forgot already, not worth dwelling on imho.