Likely mistake made, but hopefully some messages got thru

[Boogie74]

J had a splitting episode complete with rants and projections about me being the entire problem and being a narcissist.

I snapped and laid out (poor timing) the fact that she experiences this when she wakes up, goes to sleep, before and after she spends any time with her mother, etc. 

She projected about how it’s all my fault, etc… Ignored all that and left it as it is.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[babyducks]

hello Boogie,

this is the high level relationship help board where we spend time talking about how things should go in an ideal way.     now of course it isn't often possible to respond in an ideal way.   we all grow frustrated and snap.     still its important to recognize that responding from a place of frustration and anger is not a long term goal or strategy.     its not 'the best' relationship skills.

so in that spirit, can we talk about what is the best response when our partners split, and become verbally abusive?

more times than not, responding in kind is very not productive.    because it feeds the fire of anger and frustration and does nothing to generate calm lines of communication.  the goal is to have a calm and productive conversation and to be able to recreate that when necessary.

more often than not hanging around and engaging in the rants and projections leads to circular arguments.      more here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0
and here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=106107

When a challenge is presented (the gauntlet is thrown down) - people who chose to fight do so for a few reasons: because they believe they can win, or to defend themselves or someone they care about. Our disordered loved ones present this option to us all the time. We are constantly having the gauntlet thrown at our feet. We just haven't learned to see it as such, therefore we weren't aware that we have a choice on whether we wish to pick it up or not.

so you basically explained to her, that you are not at fault, she and her family is at fault.   based on my experience I am going to guess that not only did this message not get through,  she spent time actively refuting it.     or simply ignored it as beyond her emotional bandwidth to process.     

how are things going today?     is the argument over?

[Boogie74]

hello Boogie,

this is the high level relationship help board where we spend time talking about how things should go in an ideal way.     now of course it isn't often possible to respond in an ideal way.   we all grow frustrated and snap.     still its important to recognize that responding from a place of frustration and anger is not a long term goal or strategy.     its not 'the best' relationship skills.

so in that spirit, can we talk about what is the best response when our partners split, and become verbally abusive?

more times than not, responding in kind is very not productive.    because it feeds the fire of anger and frustration and does nothing to generate calm lines of communication.  the goal is to have a calm and productive conversation and to be able to recreate that when necessary.

more often than not hanging around and engaging in the rants and projections leads to circular arguments.      more here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=118892.0
and here:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=106107

so you basically explained to her, that you are not at fault, she and her family is at fault.   based on my experience I am going to guess that not only did this message not get through,  she spent time actively refuting it.     or simply ignored it as beyond her emotional bandwidth to process.    

how are things going today?     is the argument over?

I feel that much of this message was not intended to be as scolding as it sounds to me.

I appreciate the links given.   I thought that this was a safe space free from judgement and scolding.

That said, I did not tell her that her family is at fault.   I told her that her rages follow patterns.   Daily when she wakes up and goes to sleep is the biggest one- also when she is stressed about any number of things- before and after she visits her family is one of them- however also she was angry about the cat doing something annoying, the maintenance guy for our apartment keeping her awake mowing the lawn, a recent trip with her mother and her mother’s friend (and the friend was extremely emotional and hijacked much of the planned vacation plans).

[Cat Familiar]

This is a safe place and we focus upon strategies to make things better with our BPD loved ones.

Unfortunately we have the burden of doing ALL the work of improving our own communication patterns, since it’s unlikely our partners will undertake any study to improve their own.

We have to start from the perspective that this is terribly UNFAIR. Yes, it is. But that’s the reality.

It took me a long time to accept this. I was exceptionally angry and frustrated that it was MY problem when the obvious behavioral issues were my partner’s, not my own.

But as I began to delve deeper into the communication dynamics, I began to understand how what I said and did could easily throw a Molotov cocktail into the mix. Now it may have not had the same effect in a healthy relationship, but that was not what I was dealing with.

So part of the process involved me looking deeply into my own patterns and figuring out what was ineffective, what was volatile, what was perceived as unkind (even though I did not mean it to be so), and what was my own intractability. That process continues to this day. Much of what I learn is unpleasant, embarrassing, but it continues to help me improve my communication, not only with my husband, but in all of my relationships.

And the interesting outcome is that my husband has followed my lead and is working on being more accountable, more understanding, getting over upset feelings more easily, and trying to be a better partner.

[Boogie74]

I forgot- I didn’t respond to how it went afterward.   She asked me to go to the store to buy some dish soap.   I left and she texted me to pick up Jimmy Johns for her.   She ordered a sub for me as a surprise.   My guess is that while she wasn’t outwardly happy with my blunt explanation of her patterns of suffering (and mood swings), she is definitely aware of the problems and does feel remorse and is able to recognize the problems she runs into.   

I view her purchase of the sub (which I did not ask for) as an extended olive branch.

As an aside, as with all other challenges with mental illness, I see BPD and other personality disorders as a spectrum rather than a digital “yes or no” issue.   I believe that while it is definitely a challenge with BPD, those suffering from its symptoms can be aware of its effects and do have the ability to understand the patterns it presents- including being able to identify triggers.

My response, while certainly not ideal and (obviously) the wrong response to have, was simply identifying the triggers in real time rather than waiting to discuss and reflect at a more calm time.

[Cat Familiar]

That you are able to identify triggers will help alert you to when she is receptive and when it’s a good time to be more judicious. 

Even if she is aware of her own triggers, she may not have the ability to respond differently. BPD emotions can be overwhelming and we often say here, “Feelings equal facts.” So if you’re a very intellectual guy, as I imagine you are, fact-based reasoning just won’t work when she’s immersed in her feelings.

Yes, BPD is on a spectrum. Some people are mildly afflicted while others are nearly incapacitated. And yes, there is will and accountability even in extreme cases.

PwBPD know that something is *off* with them and it is a source of great shame. Hence, their tendency to project onto their partners, like labeling you a narcissist.

Though it seems as if it would be helpful for us to share our perspectives about the overarching patterns we perceive in their behavior, tread with caution. Frequently it merely becomes in their mind, yet another *criticism* and triggers anger and defensiveness.

That you notice patterns is extremely helpful. Keep up the good work! 

[Boogie74]

That you are able to identify triggers will help alert you to when she is receptive and when it’s a good time to be more judicious. 

Even if she is aware of her own triggers, she may not have the ability to respond differently. BPD emotions can be overwhelming and we often say here, “Feelings equal facts.” So if you’re a very intellectual guy, as I imagine you are, fact-based reasoning just won’t work when she’s immersed in her feelings.

Yes, BPD is on a spectrum. Some people are mildly afflicted while others are nearly incapacitated. And yes, there is will and accountability even in extreme cases.

PwBPD know that something is *off* with them and it is a source of great shame. Hence, their tendency to project onto their partners, like labeling you a narcissist.

Though it seems as if it would be helpful for us to share our perspectives about the overarching patterns we perceive in their behavior, tread with caution. Frequently it merely becomes in their mind, yet another *criticism* and triggers anger and defensiveness.

That you notice patterns is extremely helpful. Keep up the good work! 

I totally agree with everything you are saying.   I completely admit that my response was the wrong approach (at a minimum timing wise).   Just sharing my personal setbacks.

[NotAHero]

 I avoid trying to explain things to face in fear of rage and hysterical behavior. I use messages after the person is calm. In the past I thought that messages will help avoid gas lighting but guess what? The message would still be there and she would deny saying it or twist it. In short, nothing really works to bring accountability to a normal person level. There are no “messages that get across”. Unfortunately, all you can do is choose your battles and use the known techniques to minimize the damage.

[thankful person]

I feel that much of this message was not intended to be as scolding as it sounds to me.

Boogie I do not think baby ducks intended to be scolding. It is so hard to get everything right with our bpd spouses, and I also beat myself up regularly over saying stupid things and not letting stuff go, now that I know there are more effective responses. Why do we have to suddenly become a perfect textbook shrink, just to get through a day without arguing? As cat said, it is so unfair that we have to put up with this, and it’s exhausting, but it’s how it is if we want to stay with our partners. It’s hard to assess people’s manner here sometimes with the online communication. I for one have so much to learn and many of these members know so much. I know that baby ducks spends so much time on here taking the time to help people she has never met. She has helped me hugely and I am so grateful.