Sometimes I just want vengeance

[ILMBPDC]

It's petty, I know, and maybe its a sign I'm experiencing the anger stage of grief but sometimes I just want him to fail. I already know he won't have a functioning stable relationship without massive therapy, that's not it. Professionally, he is doing well - way further ahead than I was at his age. And he is smart and ambitious (and honestly, a workaholic).  One of his (narcissistic) goals was to be be a capitalistic millionaire. He may get there, assuming he follows through with his plans to start his own business (of course I know that in his personal life he is incapable of following through...)

I was thinking about my feeling surrounding this - is it jealousy?  No, I  don't think so. I have no desire to work 18 hours days just so people will think I am worth something. I value my work-life balance much more than money.  What I think it is is that I want him to feel pain in some aspect of his life. He obviously doesn't feel pain at the trail of carnage he leaves behind after a relationship.

Is it just me?  Do I need to discuss this in therapy? Maybe I should take up boxing so I can hit something.

[Deep Blue]

Oh believe me. You are not alone.

I for one want her to hurt as well. It pisses me off beyond belief that my BPDex is able to resume her life and her affairs without a second thought of the affect that she had on me. She’s seeing new people and looks like she’s enjoying herself. I think it’s their callousness and their lack of empathy that makes us so upset. There’s no retribution for their actions. They leave without any remorse and without any lessons learned. It’s beyond infuriating. And I for one, struggle immensely with how quickly and easily they move on toward new relationships, seemingly without any second thoughts about the intimate moments shared between you and them.

I completely sympathize with your desire to see them fail hard in something . Telling myself that all of their behavior is due to their childlike emotional self usually only pacifies my frustration for so long. The lack of closure in relationships with pwBPD certainly doesn’t help either.

Also ya, let it out in therapy. Let it all out. I do. It’s one of the few ways us non’s have at giving ourselves some form of closure with this cruel experience.

Deep Blue

[grumpydonut]

It doesn't read like jealously. It reads like it comes from a sense of injustice.

It seems pretty natural.

As for boxing, I know it was in jest, but it's proven that trying to release anger through physical violence (even on a punching bag) actually makes anger worse!

[IntoTheWind]

I've felt like this, maybe vengeance is the wrong word, more like the need to prove myself as not being a crappy or unattractive person.

I was pretty in shape when I met my ex, lost weight, lost hair during it, she got mad at me for losing weight and when she hugged me she'd do this thing where she'd "ick" and say "you feel really skinny", which just made it worse. I felt really cheated and terrible at the end.

I'm in great shape now, hair is back, I had some cosmetic surgery that "improved" my face and fixed an insecurity I had. All of this has made me far more attractive than I ever was when I was with her, but she'll never see it. I wish she could see how I look now, because she's incredibly superficial in this way, and I know it would infruriate her.

[ILMBPDC]

Oh believe me. You are not alone.

I for one want her to hurt as well. It pisses me off beyond belief that my BPDex is able to resume her life and her affairs without a second thought of the affect that she had on me. She’s seeing new people and looks like she’s enjoying herself. I think it’s their callousness and their lack of empathy that makes us so upset. There’s no retribution for their actions. They leave without any remorse and without any lessons learned. It’s beyond infuriating. And I for one, struggle immensely with how quickly and easily they move on toward new relationships, seemingly without any second thoughts about the intimate moments shared between you and them.

I completely sympathize with your desire to see them fail hard in something . Telling myself that all of their behavior is due to their childlike emotional self usually only pacifies my frustration for so long. The lack of closure in relationships with pwBPD certainly doesn’t help either.

Thank you for this. Everything you said it exactly right. Its infuriating and mind boggling and painful and like you said the lack of closure doesn't help.

Also ya, let it out in therapy. Let it all out. I do. It’s one of the few ways us non’s have at giving ourselves some form of closure with this cruel experience.

Funny story, I found out this morning that my new health insurance(my division at work was acquired by a new company as of Nov 1 and they have a different insurance provider) doesn't cover my therapist (at all, not in-network or out-of-network) so I get to find a new one now. More stress.

It doesn't read like jealously. It reads like it comes from a sense of injustice.

Yes I think that is it. Why does he get to keep hurting women and moving on like nothing happened?

As for boxing, I know it was in jest, but it's proven that trying to release anger through physical violence (even on a punching bag) actually makes anger worse!

Luckily I am not a violent person in the least and honestly have no desire to hit stuff

[ILMBPDC]

I've felt like this, maybe vengeance is the wrong word, more like the need to prove myself as not being a crappy or unattractive person.

I was pretty in shape when I met my ex, lost weight, lost hair during it, she got mad at me for losing weight and when she hugged me she'd do this thing where she'd "ick" and say "you feel really skinny", which just made it worse. I felt really cheated and terrible at the end.

I'm in great shape now, hair is back, I had some cosmetic surgery that "improved" my face and fixed an insecurity I had. All of this has made me far more attractive than I ever was when I was with her, but she'll never see it. I wish she could see how I look now, because she's incredibly superficial in this way, and I know it would infruriate her.

This isn't it for me, but I can see why you feel that way in your case. Your ex sounds awful (aren't they all?) to use your insecurities against you.

Don't get me wrong, there is a part of me that wants to look amazing so if he ever saw me he would be like "wow, why did I let her go?" But 1, he always thought I was "hot" (his words), even up until the last time we saw each other and 2, he didn't seem to notice or care when I lost 30 lbs so I don't think he would notice or care much if I changed anyway.  Not to mention, I'm really tired of being seen as a sex object - if my looks are the only thing he misses then that's just another reason he isn't worth it.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey ILM, The goal, I would suggest, is indifference.  Your longing for vengeance suggests to me that you are still emotionally involved.  Don't engage, is my advice.  Don't waste energy on thoughts of revenge.  Let go and move on.  Finding your own happiness is the best revenge.

LJ

[ILMBPDC]

Hey ILM, The goal, I would suggest, is indifference.  Your longing for vengeance suggests to me that you are still emotionally involved.  Don't engage, is my advice.  Don't waste energy on thoughts of revenge.  Let go and move on.  Finding your own happiness is the best revenge.

Obviously. And its much easier said than done (at least for me, telling me to just "let it go" is not at all helpful). I'm working on it - I would so much rather not still be attached than to have  him keep popping into my head and wreaking havoc - I definitely don't want this. But I also think this is just part of working through it all. Anger is part of the stages of grief and I apparently just hit my stages in a different order than most (I spent months in depression already and of course hit shock and denial/bargaining first thing but I skipped anger until now)

[Ad Meliora]

I understand how you feel ILM.  I'm not sure I had the exact feelings.  In the months afterward I was very angry.  I didn't want her to fail so much as I wanted what she took from me restored.  It's why we look for apologies, or acknowledgement of guilt, or some form of closure.  Their disordered thinking and comorbidities prevent that.  I was upset about the whole situation for months.

Actually, what she took from me: my self-confidence, my sense of self, my love poured into her, my time--they can never be paid back.  I can never have that restored by her even if she was willing.  I realized that I had to "clear the debts" off the books so I am not connected to her.  Lucky Jim is right, I think the goal is indifference and I wrote that in one of Poppy2's threads.  I normally wouldn't want to feel indifferent about anything/anyone, but when you're dealing with someone who is toxic to your conscious mind you want to get to the point where you see them and it's "Meh".

I actually want her "success" in one way.  I want her to go to therapy.  Maybe after years and a bunch of work she could come to see her role in the relationship and the consequences of her actions, and not embark on ruining someone else's life.

[rob66]

I don't want vengeance on my ex because she has suffered enormously most of her life, which explains why she has uBPD, and/or uPPD. I actually have a lot of compassion for her. It's not her fault that she is like the way she is. Mental illness, suicide, schizophrenia run in her family. I want her to be happy, and I hope that she is some day, even though our break up has caused me so much pain and suffering.

[MeandThee29]

I'm four-plus years away from him, and almost two years since the "gray" divorce was final. Closeout took longer than the divorce because of his antics and the pandemic, but I finally was able to close my file with my attorney some months back.

I certainly went through waves of wanting vengeance. Other times I was just frozen in a hole. Sometimes I was horribly depressed, and other times I was giddy with relief. Our young adults went through the same. None of us are in contact with him at all. As my wise attorney said once, only a fool would be friends with someone who burned down the house.

I think all of that is completely normal. You don't want to dwell though on something destructive. As much as I wanted vengeance at times, I knew that wasn't right and never went there, even in the divorce. I just wanted a legal, decent settlement that the judge would sign off on and that would be difficult to appeal. My ex viewed it as an opportunity to get back at me and grind me into the ground, and my legal team made sure that didn't happen despite all the drama.

Now I just feel sad at times at what might have been. I do believe that he knew deep down what he was doing, but because of background, trauma, and addiction, he couldn't work through it in a healthy way and took it out on those closest to him. And for those reasons, it had to end.

[ILMBPDC]

I certainly went through waves of wanting vengeance. Other times I was just frozen in a hole. Sometimes I was horribly depressed, and other times I was giddy with relief. Our young adults went through the same. None of us are in contact with him at all. As my wise attorney said once, only a fool would be friends with someone who burned down the house.

Yes, all of this. And your attorney is a wise person! 

I think all of that is completely normal. You don't want to dwell though on something destructive. As much as I wanted vengeance at times, I knew that wasn't right and never went there, even in the divorce.

No, I'm not dwelling on it. Every now and then something puts him in my head (the day I wrote this I saw his picture when updating my LinkedIn profile and it triggered me a little) but for the most part he's out of my mind. And yes, some days I want to see him hurt the same as I was, usually I just feel sorry for him now.

[MeandThee29]

Yes, all of this. And your attorney is a wise person!  

No, I'm not dwelling on it. Every now and then something puts him in my head (the day I wrote this I saw his picture when updating my LinkedIn profile and it triggered me a little) but for the most part he's out of my mind. And yes, some days I want to see him hurt the same as I was, usually I just feel sorry for him now.

My attorney was known for being a tough negotiator and litigator, but he had all these sayings as I related. I would get off a call with him or home from an appointment, and I'd write them down. He had founded a firm focused on high conflict divorce because he saw a market for that and felt like he had the skills to represent people going against a disordered partner.

He completely got my ex's thinking and predicted many of the twists and turns because he also knew my ex's attorney very well. The day I retained him after a phone interview, he called my ex's attorney, and then called me to report what was discussed. He told me that he believed that my ex's attorney was going to regret taking the case. Some months in, his attorney was talking constantly about quitting. That kind of thing happened over and over. 

My ex is retired and lives many states away, so that does make it easier.   

[Cromwell]

this behaviour comes across more narcissistic than it does BPD, but im not an expert on either.

what i can add to this is my ex's (bpd) grandiose ideas at times. it was high status jobs, it was whimsical dreams of living in mansions in nice areas. at times it was taking on an identity status of wishing to be monarchial. what can I say except the expression I came across, the powerless seek power and the extent is to how powerless they feel from the origin.

does your ex work in a real estate office wearing a pinkie-ring
is he like a character out of Glen Garry Glenn Ross, or a used car salesman like in Fargo
either way "18 hour a day wannabe capitalist millionnaire"
can we humour it? is it not worhthy of a little laughter (Trust me its better than getting angry)
very healthy, laugh it off.

I guess reading between the lines he already evidently has an amphetamine/cocaine habit. The more he makes the bigger the fall, dont get involved just sit back and wait.

[ILMBPDC]

this behaviour comes across more narcissistic than it does BPD, but im not an expert on either.

Oh, I definitely noticed some narcissistic traits near the end, I'm not sure he has enough to be considered NPD but from what I hear, it is often co-occurring so who knows

what can I say except the expression I came across, the powerless seek power and the extent is to how powerless they feel from the origin.

So true.

I guess reading between the lines he already evidently has an amphetamine/cocaine habit. The more he makes the bigger the fall, dont get involved just sit back and wait.

No drugs, but I noticed he was a decently heavy drinker and he even once said he used it to cope...If he doesn't get his act together he is going to end up an alcoholic (if he isn't already) and that is absolutely something I don't want in my life.

I have washed my hands of him and am moving on but there are still times when I am low, or stressed or tired where he pops back into my head and I wonder "why" or I feel like crap because he didn't want me (and if I am being honest, I think I was probably the "catch", not him, though my low self esteem didn't see it at the time). I can only keep moving forward.

[Cromwell]

Be careful as many addicts are able to hide it for sometimes years from their partners. Alcohol is often used to potentiate the high as much to {try} to. Comfort the withdrawals.
Good for you wash hands of him and yes your self esteem will build exponentially it. Takes time but good solid start

[rob66]

The anger we feel is normal. I try to feel it during quiet times of my mind when I see this experience of being discarded as one of life's significant events. I do know that it is healthy. I think anger tends to be stronger in those whose self-esteem and self image need some work. While this experience did brutalized me, and wounded me deeply, I have tried to commit to helping others, extending my hand in assistance whenever I see someone in need. Could be a friend who is hurting, talking to my daughter, having a nice word to say to one of the many homeless people that wander the streets here in L.A., or by taking the time to ask one of my students how they are doing if I notice they look a little down; sometimes, just feeling compassion for something I see ... Yesterday, I talked for an hour to a friend who had just broken up with his girlfriend of three years. I listened deeply with the perspective of my own pain. I gave him advice and calmed him. That was almost 24 hours ago, and since then, the thoughts of my ex have been almost absent.

My point is that being nice and compassionate to others seems to eclipse the anger and need for striking back. The more I have practiced it over the last two months of NC with my uBPD ex, the meeker this anger has become; the more proud I feel for who I am and who I am becoming during this difficult process.

In my opinion, compassion and kindness always defeats anger during the inner conflict of a broken heart. 

[SinisterComplex]

Oh, I definitely noticed some narcissistic traits near the end, I'm not sure he has enough to be considered NPD but from what I hear, it is often co-occurring so who knows
 So true.

No drugs, but I noticed he was a decently heavy drinker and he even once said he used it to cope...If he doesn't get his act together he is going to end up an alcoholic (if he isn't already) and that is absolutely something I don't want in my life.

I have washed my hands of him and am moving on but there are still times when I am low, or stressed or tired where he pops back into my head and I wonder "why" or I feel like crap because he didn't want me (and if I am being honest, I think I was probably the "catch", not him, though my low self esteem didn't see it at the time). I can only keep moving forward.

There is no doubt you were the catch and you are the catch...always believe in that! Consider also that it wasn't him not wanting you, but rather you were too good for him and he knew it. You were out of his league. Nuff said to that end. Keep your head up and keep moving forward. I know building up that self esteem and confidence is going to take time, but you will get there.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Cant breathe]

I've been thinking about your comment for days. While I do agree the goal is indifference, I also think it's ok not to wish your ex well. Why should you? This person was cruel to you, damaged you. Now you shouldn't be spending your days focusing on revenge or anger, but why the heck should you wish this person well? The truth is you don't have to forgive this person, you just don't have to focus on the ill wishes.

[Flossy]

I believe it is a stage. It will pass. For a good year, about two years ago, I would imagine my daughter coming to my house or seeing her in a shopping centre and having her come up to me.

My instinct was that I would want to punch her in the face.

That shocked me.

I no longer feel that way.

PS Whenever I spoke to my elderly Narcissistic mother I would have to go downstairs and punch the punching bag while saying everything I wished I could bring myself to say to her. At times it would make me laugh.

If I didn't do this, I would be PTSD triggered and end up in bed for days.

It's okay, let the thoughts come, don't deny them, don't take them personally, don't feel shame or denial. They will pass I promise. Nothing that your brain tells you is a useless exercise or something to feel worried or afraid of. It's all learning and gathering information.

I see it as a desire for justice where you have experienced injustice over and over. It's justified.

[Cromwell]

I agree with all especially with can't breathe. At a primal level put civilised human to one side, there is a catalogue of 'dangers' only learned by experience. Do we want to forget those? Is it safe to forget?

They are unpleasant usually but i see them as serve an important purpose. In this way my ex becomes less over arching she just joins an index of wariness. There's a slight distinction i once loved her.

Once.

All the best, good work