Question for divorced parents with small children

[Gdoodle]

I am planning on filing for a divorce from my ubpdw. My biggest concerns are i am worried she will rage on my boys age 8 and 4 and also how do you get over not seeing your kids everyday? Right now i spend 3pm to 8pm with the kids because my ubpdw would rather be at work than home and even when she is home she doesn’t spend any time with them. My boys are my life and makes me sad when i think not seeing them every day.

Thank you

[PeteWitsend]

I was in a similar situation, except mine were younger than yours.

What helped me get over the hump was a couple things:

1) a friend of mine who is a child psychiatrist told me to just get out, and that divorce is easier on kids the younger they are.  

2) read an article somewhere that said as long as kids have a stable parent to model behavior off of, they should be OK.  

I don't know if those will be true for you, but for me, so far so good.  I'm now 3 years post separation, and about 2 1/2 years post divorce.  

Get your kids a therapist you trust right away, and get him or her defined in court order, i.e. both patents are required to take the kids to them exclusively.  That at least gives you another adult in the equation & a trained professional no less, to monitor things.

[Justdrive]

"Splitting" by Bill Eddy, and "Don't Alienate the Kids", also by Eddy. They'll help you formulate a plan by helping you to anticipate some of what might come your way.

At some point, I suggest picking up copies of "Understanding the Borderline Mother" by Lawson and "Raising Resilient Children with a Borderline or Narcissistic Parent" by Fjelstad and McBride. Neither is an easy read, but if you're looking for a place to start in order to be the best buffer for your kids you can, those books are solid.

But if you're worried about the kids being raged at, that sounds like something you should talk to a divorce attorney about. He/She will be able to help you draft a custody/parenting plan and maybe, depending on your circumstances, get a better custody schedule than you would on your own.

As for missing them when you don't have them...it does get easier. It'll never be great, it'll never really be good; but you'll get more used to it in time. Good luck.

[ForeverDad]

Courts often default to basic parenting schedules.  It is up to you to stand up, so to speak and declare why your children see you frequently now and why that should continue.

It is very important that this is explained to your lawyer from the start and that it is explained to the court from the very first hearing.  As I wrote here, the court often default to their usual temp orders.

Each state had different defaults.  And judges are allowed some discretion on how to make decisions.  Some states are starting to advocate 50/50 if appropriate.  Other states, like mine, still seem to default to giving mother preference, especially in the initial temp orders as the separation or divorce is starting.  In my case, I had protection and temporary possession of the home as my then-spouse was facing a Threat of DV charge in one court, yet she went to family court and ended up with a temp order for temp full custody and temp majority time.  Yes, I was an alternate weekend parent for over two years back then, it didn't improve until the final decree.

One schedule might be 50/50 where (for younger children under 10 years old or so) the schedule is 2-2-3 (or 5-2-2-5) which means one parent gets Mon-Tue overnights, the other parent gets Wed-Thu overnights and the parents alternate the long weekends.

Another schedule would give majority parenting time to one parent and alternate weekends to the other parent.  It sounds like you would be more appropriate as the parent on weekdays.  Be forewarned, you can guess which parental gender usually gets minority time.

If you can seek or have more time with the kids, go for it.  Ponder what proposals would work for your family.  (Do not be surprised that reasonable proposals are likely to be rejected by a disordered spouse.)  Look to court (informed by you and your experienced attorney) to arrive at a "less bad" outcome than your ex would want for you.

Daycare is not a solution since most aren't open to 8 pm.  Paying for a sitter doesn't make sense since you're available.  Since our spouse's conflict often occurs during exchanges, ponder how you can design exchange locations that will reduce conflict yet not be too complicated.

A final thought... are you the parent keeping track of schoolwork?  Build relationships with the school, teachers, doctors, etc.  By doing that you can have basis to ask the court to assign you as parental contact for school, doctor, etc and those decisions.

[Gdoodle]

Thank you everyone.

I know my kids are living in a very toxic environment, just to live our lives based on my ubpdw’s mood. I am hoping i can get majority of the custody based on her admitting multiple times during our recorded conversation that she doesn’t want the kids and never wanted the kids. I know I can’t think of future and i know not to have high expectations. I am glad i found this site its been long 10 years always getting blamed and eventually thinking everything was my fault.

[kells76]

Gdoodle, given the recordings you've mentioned, I'd recommend getting a couple of consultations with lawyers so that you can understand if/how the recordings can help you. Consultations can be free or low-cost, and you aren't required to hire or work with any L you consult with (so you're not "roped in" just because you chatted with one or a few). Even 30 minutes with two local L's can be an immense help to understanding likely outcomes. It's possible that with the recordings and if you can be flexible with your work schedule (and if the boys are in school/preschool during the day), then you could be primary parent with majority time. Strongly recommend getting that kind of professional feedback. At minimum it may help you have less stress about the "what ifs".

I also agree with the other members; get the boys in counseling ASAP (both of them are in an age range for "play therapy" versus talk therapy). If their mom is resistant at this point, put it on your to-do list for mediation/divorce process. I can't think of any professional who would say "you know what, I don't think kids need any counseling or help at all when their parents divorce".

And, same wavelength as ForeverDad -- if you haven't already, start being proactive about talking with teachers, pediatricians, etc. Don't undersell yourself as "just the dad". Separation and divorce can be a long process, so you have time to establish yourself as an active, caring, involved father with the professionals already involved in your kids' lives.

Also, like you've already been doing with the recordings... document, document, document. Who gave baths, who put to bed, who picked up from school, who helped with HW. Save it in a safe place (password protected online doc?).

Sorry it's come to this.

[Gdoodle]

Thank you.

The recording was the lawyers idea, she told me she needs evidence of abuse. I gave her the recording so we will see what happens with the recording. I spoke with my counselor today about getting some help for my kids during and after the divorce. Yes i have been keeping records/journal about our daily activities and also yes my job is very flexible, when kids are sick i pick them up or my parents (grandparents), i take them to the doctors appointments and after school activities. I have been giving them shower/bath for past 4 to 5 years now, i still wake up at night when they need help. I get their lunches ready every morning, i clean their lunch bags and feed them dinner every night. She does drive them on Tuesday and Thursday to school but my older son was in tears few days ago because she flipped out on him.

[CoherentMoose]

From ForeverDad in another post "Guess what happened?  Despite my testimony of disparaging incidents at various times, including summers, the court granted me majority time only during the school year.  That's when I learned that independent professionals — such as schools — had as much or more influence than me (dad) in court outcomes."

We are finding that so true in spades.  Especially when an ex is willing to lie.  How to get the truth out there?  Find ways to get your children exposed to others who can provide written documentation to your lawyer for submittal to the court.  Our approach was forcing in-person therapy which my GF's xBPDh fought tooth and nail legally and lost.  We're expecting additional interference there, but my GF's daughter had her first therapy session this week and came out of it jazzed.  So excited to have her own box of toys with her name on it! 

Teachers, school counselors, and therapists all can help get the truth out to the court.  GALs too, but they come with some risk and cost depending on the quality of the GAL. 

Good luck, and please keep us posted.  CoMo

[PeteWitsend]

couple other thoughts:

- my goal during the divorce was to get through it and move on.  and my attorney said "sometimes it's better to give them rope to hang themselves"... the implication being "don't fight over things until your Ex screws up and gives you a reason to... and then winning is a slam dunk."

- this is wrong for a couple reasons:

1) Burden of proof/amending a decree.  courts do NOT like re-opening settled matters unless there is a substantial change for the worse in the matter.  And what's substantial to you may not be substantial by any legal standard.  

If your BPDex is "high functioning" they'll likely be able to keep up appearances, keep a job, maintain a house, maybe even replace you quickly.  So even though they're a nightmare to deal with, continually create conflict, and don't put their kids' interest first, it's unlikely they'll be any of the clear bright line causes to trigger a substantial change in circumstances like physical abuse, drug addiction, alcohol abuse/DUIs, or other triggers that aren't "he said /she said," but objectively bad by any standard.

2) Cost.  my divorce cost me close to $20K and that was with barely any fighting, and property divided in mediation.  you want to pay that, and THEN have to pay that (or likely MORE)  again in a couple years to re-open, re-try, and amend your divorce decree?  No!  fight for what you need in the decree and then deal with the conflict without expecting to go back to court.

2a) that being said... don't fight gratuitously.  if your attorney tells you that you're taking a losing position, concede the point.  don't be the one creating conflict, be the one resolving it.

3) expect an exBPD spouse will not put the best interests of the children - or even themselves  first when getting a chance to get back at you for all your perceived slights and betrayals.

3a) I let my BPDxw have primary custody and primary right to designate the kids' school and residence, figuring with the geographic restriction to our county and her job always being IN the city, she'd stay put.

Well, she moved 30 miles away (still in the county but right at the line), and put our kids in a bad rural elementary school, ALSO adding an hour each way to her commute, just to try to force me to give up time with our kids by putting as much distance as possible between us.

this was after telling my kids I abandoned them and didnt want them repeatedly, lying (in writing) about her intent to move, and the school they'd be in, and two years of other continual hostile behavior.

I can summarize the attitude of my attorney and the court to this predicament as "that sucks, but she had the legal right to move there and pick the school, and if you didn't want her to have that, you shouldn't have given it up."