Dunning Kruger Effect

[bugwaterguy]

Hey folks,

I struggle with things like "trust your own intuition", "listen to your inner voice", and similar phrases.  Isn't this the same as choosing feelings over facts?

I value critical thinking.  I know there is stuff I don't know.  There are lots of narcissists, fact-denyers, blamers, and projectors who would say they are "trusting their inner voice".

Isn't just going with what you think you know what all victims of the Dunning-Kruger effect do?

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[ILMBPDC]

I struggle with things like "trust your own intuition", "listen to your inner voice", and similar phrases.  Isn't this the same as choosing feelings over facts?

No, its not. Feelings are emotional. Intuition is more of a sixth sense, your "gut instinct", and most people have learned to ignore that but they really shouldn't. Like when you are in the woods and you feel like you are being watched? You probably are - and that's your gut, not your feelings.

For example, one of my exes (not Mr BPD) said to me the first time we slept together something to the effect of how I'm the last woman he would ever sleep with. My intuition immediately shot up red flags, thinking that was a weird thing to say. I ignored it.  It had nothing to do with my feelings - as a matter of fact my feelings were all "awww, he's really into me". Turns out the guy was a con man who was manipulating me and that red flag (as well as others I ignored in favor of feelings) was a major clue that I shouldn't have ignored.

[lenfan]

Hi BWG, I know what you mean here and tend to agree with your point. It may also vary from individual to individual, which makes it even  more complicated. For example, I am prone to anxiety. If I always  trusted my feelings/ intuition/ gut/ whatever- you-want-to- call-it, then everything would be a red flag in a world full of danger and I would probably never get out of bed. I have to ramp that down with logic. I understand that people without anxiety and depression do tend to overestimate their abilities and perceptions, so their gut might work against them from the other direction.

I also think that it's not too big a leap from trusting your gut to succumbing to unconscious biases,  paranoia, prejudices and profiling.

On the other hand, we can't quickly and logically analyze every situation we need to, so we have evolved this intuition thing that we can't really explain, or fully discount either, to get us out of danger fast. So, I guess my questions for you are, how accurate has your intuition been? Have you regretted not following it more often than not? Or, has it been the other way around?

I'm only half kidding when I say maybe you have to trust your intuition about not always trusting your intuition. What works for you might not work for someone else and vice versa.  

[bugwaterguy]

I also think that it's not too big a leap from trusting your gut to succumbing to unconscious biases,  paranoia, prejudices and profiling.

Yes! and as a person with lots of privilege (white, male, straight, cis, tall, physically and mentally healthy) - I try to be aware of this. 

On the other hand, we can't quickly and logically analyze every situation we need to, so we have evolved this intuition thing that we can't really explain, or fully discount either, to get us out of danger fast. So, I guess my questions for you are, how accurate has your intuition been? Have you regretted not following it more often than not? Or, has it been the other way around?

I don't often make quick decisions based on my gut/intuition.  I also don't wait forever in "analysis paralysis".  I think I am fairly balanced. 

Colin Powell has a rule of thumb about making tough decisions that I feel is helpful. He says that every time you face a tough decision you should have no less than forty percent and no more than seventy percent of the information you need to make the decision.  If you have less than 40%, you are likely to make a mistake.  If you wait until you have all the information - the opportunity has often passed you by.  I feel once I am in that 40-70% range - if I go with my gut then, it will be ok.

But it is difficult to know when you are in that 40-70% range...

[once removed]

i love this thread! "trust your gut" has become something of a cliche, where the takeaway seems to be "live in fear and run from everything". we carry a lot of biases, fight and flight responses, etc. i think its not as simple as "trust your gut". check your emotions, to be sure, but ideally you want to be operating from a centered place, in Wisemind (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind), utilizing both your emotional mind and logical mind.

Feelings are emotional. Intuition is more of a sixth sense, your "gut instinct",

having said that, i think ILMBPDC points out a key distinction. intuition is not the same as feelings, and ostensibly, that is what a "gut feeling" refers to.

i learn and observe primarily through intuition, which is not in and of itself a good or a bad thing, just a thing. it helps me to know that about myself, as well as where i may rely on it too much to the detriment of other things.