Odd grocery store encounter

[Woolspinner2000]

I ran out to the grocery store yesterday morning before the snow storm hit. I had forgotten a couple items even though I had picked up supplies the day before. My list was very small, and I used a couple coupons. Unfortunately at the self check out I had trouble using the coupons, and had to get help from the gal who was working.

This is where it gets strange. She immediately seemed bothered to be there. I get it, things had to have been crazy the previous day with the shelves emptying off. This was 7 am so not a busy time. She turned her back to me and hovered over the computer screen. It took her a long time to enter her numbers to access whatever she needed to. I wondered at first if she didn't want me to see her enter the numbers, so I maintained my space from her. When one coupon wouldn't go through, I asked about it, and she wouldn't respond. I moved around her back to her other side, and she moved her back and body again to block me. I finally asked again which one didn't work, and she didn't speak or look at me, thrusting the coupon towards me. I reached into my bag and pulled out the item that the computer said I didn't buy and showed it to her. She took the coupon back, still acting as if she didn't want to see me and still with her back turned, shielding herself. It was so strange. I thought about wishing her to have a nice day (in all kindness) but knew she didn't want me to talk with her. As I left I saw her talking with another co-worker a few feet away, laughing and saying loud enough that I could hear her from quite a few feet away that it was going to be a long day.

It was so strange to me because most people receive kindness and a smile but this gal was extremely closed. I'm healthy enough now to quickly recognize that this had nothing to do with me. I did nothing wrong. The body language was so extreme that it was a bit triggering in the sense that it bothered me that someone was so dismissive of me.

I ask myself what, if anything I'm to do with this? There's nothing to be accomplished, but I can tell my brain wants to make sense of it and put it in some order. I wonder if it's okay and appropriate to say that was really rude to treat a person that way? Of course those of us with a BPD parent know what it's like to not be allowed to respond or be angry, so I am reminding myself it's okay to feel what I feel. I thought I'd share it here and see what thoughts you all might have. It's interesting to me that I keep going over it and telling myself I did nothing wrong, so it must've been more triggering than I realized. She never looked at me, just walked away.

Woolsy

[beatricex]

hi Woolsey,
Reading this, I thought of my adult stepdaughter who we suspect is BPD.  Really odd, I agree and it has nothing to do with you.

I also wonder about the laughing.  Laughing at someone else, when you know they haven't left your presence is such a passive aggressive move. It's almost normal with girls and women I guess, but I don't like it.

It is hard cause we as a society "survive" because people "like" us.  Feeling rejected is a huge trigger for me too.  I am feeling more and more that I'm getting old and I am acutely aware of the millenial generation, which is young enough that I could be their parent (although I never myself had kids I am just trying to parent two obnoxious as hell adult stepdaughters with kids of their own).  I feel they are somehow judging us "old folks."  Maybe they are, maybe they are no different than I was at their age.  I can't help but wonder if social media feeds this?

I am grateful that there seems to be more awareness of mental illness, anxiety, depression, and personality disorders amongst this generation.  Mine certainly hid this, I like that they tend to be more open.  One of my coworkers said "histrionics" to describe another coworker's behavior this week and I laughed.  I began to wonder if maybe personality disorders are just a normal thing to admit these days, and if I'm just too sensitive to people with them because of my being rejected by my own mother with BPD.  I was also rejected by my two sisters, who have been my Mom's flying monkeys for years.  And most recently, my oldest brother seems to have BPD traits himself.  I hate to say it but lately "he's been acting like a chic" (I know this is a stereotype I'd like to shed from my vocabulary, but it just pops into my head when I think of his recent behavoir, I guess I can't help it).  With MeToo, you would think women would be more supportive of each other, but sometimes I feel like we're going backward.

Back to your chick with attitude at the grocery store.  With everything I'm learning (my husband and I are currently going through Family Connections), I think I would have taken the opportunity to practice some Validation with this person?  It a lot safer to do so on a total stranger than on my step daughter who will likely rage, laugh, get hostile, reject me and send me into some kind of downhill depression spiral I fear.  Gee, that hurts when she does that.  It was somewhat of a relief when she stopped talking to us nearly 2 years ago. 

Hang in there Wools, it's tough "knowing what we know."  But here we get it, and I got your back.  You did nothing wrong, but what an uncomfortable trigger

 
b

[Rev]

I ask myself what, if anything I'm to do with this? There's nothing to be accomplished, but I can tell my brain wants to make sense of it and put it in some order. I wonder if it's okay and appropriate to say that was really rude to treat a person that way? Of course those of us with a BPD parent know what it's like to not be allowed to respond or be angry, so I am reminding myself it's okay to feel what I feel. I thought I'd share it here and see what thoughts you all might have. It's interesting to me that I keep going over it and telling myself I did nothing wrong, so it must've been more triggering than I realized. She never looked at me, just walked away.

Woolsy

Hi there Woolsy,

What I great question - Practical on so many levels.

I think it's safe to say that after two years of this craziness, many people are being pushed into "borderline states" regardless. And it is becoming endemic. We are all breathing this same air. Brains that fire together, wire together. Souls that breathe together, weave together.

So, straight out, I'd say you did the right thing. By saying nothing and carrying on, you did no damage. And if you had spoken out, you could have done some good, except that somehow you were still feeling out your subconscious to properly read the situation. In my work, we would say that in the moment, your clinical instincts were good. The pattern will re-emerge at some point, and now you'll be better prepared to gauge the appropriate action in THAT moment - which may still be to stand back.

Remember J.A.D.E. - such an important tool.

And - now that your mind is begging to learn to reframe, you are still going to need to let your body catch up to your mind. Your body is like an elephant - it has a loong memory (At least mine does   )

Stay safe. Be well. Hang in there.

Rev

[madeline7]

I have a tendency to ruminate about these things and yet I see other people (who grew up in healthier families), and they are able to let it go. What I have realized is that I am hypervigilant due to being raised by an uBPDm, and it has made me so sensitive. This is where I become resentful, when I understand that this toxic Mother and dysfunctional upbringing has affected so many of my interpersonal relationships, and even a trip to the grocery store can be triggering. Understanding this dynamic is helpful, appreciating the empathy and sensitivity I have for others is a good thing, but this hypervigilance and rumination is an unwelcome part of the package that is me.

[Riv3rW0lf]

Hi Wools,

I am sorry you got treated this way. This is not the kind of treatment anyone should be getting by random strangers.

I think the "no reaction" and going about your business is probably the best thing to do... I reacted once to a poor treatment in a grocery store... The cashier started yelling at me... Like really yelling. She called me bitch and told me to shut up... You just never know how someone you don't know, who would dare treat you this way, could react to a stand up... The way I see it, if they are willing to be this disrespectful to a stranger, then what else are they willing to do to "stay on top"?

It is a strange behavior, yet one that happens quite often.

When we were driving back to our home province, it was minus 20 out. My daughter had to use the bathroom so we stopped in a Tim Hortons (Canadian, guilty). My husband parked near the door. She didn't have a coat on, we had just done 3 hours of road and the car was warm, I didnt want her to overheat. Picked her up in my arms, went in. I heard the cashier talked loudly to her coworker : "another one who isn't dressing up her kids!"... I was surprised but just went about my business... When we came out the shop, I heard the same voice: "Don't people know it's minus thirty out? Poor kids!" Gosh... I wanted to turn back and confront the woman. But then ... What good would it have done? I ruminated for at least forty minutes after that. She doesn't know me, she doesn't know why my kid wasn't dressed. I had her in my arms, wasn't wearing a coat myself. It was five seconds outside VS hours of road in a warm car. It would have taken even more time for us to put her coat on in the cold than  it was to just carry her in. Like .. see how I am still justifying myself from this encounter? I should just be able to shrug it off...

Things like that are bound to happen in a society, and I do think we are all very sensitive on account of having been raised by a borderline parent.

Also... As you (and I, and we) get older... Yes, it might happen more often. Not because of you, but because people are uncomfortable with age. We have a society that basically park elders in nursing homes. We don't want to see them, we dont want to talk about them. I worked with elders for 6 years when I was a teenager and everyone should be forced to do that. Maybe this way younger generations would understand what it's like, that there is nothing to be scared of and actually so much wisdom to gain.  My generation certainly wasn't as nice to elders as I was when I was twenty, because they weren't in contact with them. I don't know what age you are, but I am going to go a limb here that you are not an elder yet, but that you are showing clear sign of wisdom ;) , which will, by nature, impact the way other people treat you... Either with more respect, either with less patience...

It has nothing to do with you, and everything to do with their own fear and projection.

[Turkish]

You didn't do anything wrong.

The Covid situation has been extremely hard on service workers. Part of this has contributed to The Great Resignation.

I follow a blogger in central Oregon. Their town was also devastated by wildfires. Both pharmacies/drug stores shut down as the last surviving workers were sick of Joan and John Q. Public. Too many jackalopes, too much stress. I think I know you well enough that you aren't one of them 

I worked food service from 15-20 years of age, yet I didn't have to deal with the world as it's been for the past 2 years.

It's hard not to take it personally when you are on the receiving end though.

[Goldcrest]

Hey Woolspinner2000 this is an interesting post and resonates with me. I remember a year ago, I was out walking with my dog and a man was stood to one side of a large puddle looking down at his phone (this was in the wide open countryside with no one around). As I came past he said "you couldn't even bother to say thank you". I was so taken a back, I asked him to repeat himself. When he said it again with even more irritation, I immediately started to say NO NO, I thought you were looking at your phone I didn't realise you were letting me pass. He started to walk away but continued to make comments about my lack of respect. I was calling after him to say I would never be rude and he misunderstood.

Afterwards I actually felt quite rattled but I knew I should just let it go and suspected it was a pandemic thing and he was tired of people ignoring him (he was feeling lonely), people not acknowledging social distance etc. But it was so unfair. I also felt quite angry because I was a woman alone and it was intimidating. Like you it triggered me into rumination and also thinking about why these moments hurt so much. How other people can just shrug them off but I can't.

[I Am Redeemed]

You had a legitimate need- the coupon wouldn't work- and the person responsible for attending to that need was dismissive and possibly annoyed that the need existed and she had to be bothered with attending to it, even though that's her responsibility.

I can see how this would be triggering, even if you can recognize that her response has nothing to do with you. The fact that she conveyed annoyance while refusing to engage or speak reminds me of the silent treatment. I experienced silent treatment as a child and this incident would have triggered me, too, even if I consciously realized it wasn't about me, personally.

There could be several reasons why she acted this way, but the effect of the incident is the same. It's often hard for those of us with cptsd to ask for assistance, make a need known, feel comfortable taking up space in the world. We can live life going around trying to not be a bother to anyone, so when we are faced with a situation like this, our limbic system may start to overwork even though we can articulate the rational components of the situation.

[Woolspinner2000]

Sorry to have been slow in getting back with everyone. After digging out from 12" of snow, yesterday was the first day anyone ventured out into the white snow world all around us. I joined a friend in the park for her Winter Picnic where we roasted hot dogs and made S'Mores over campfires in a couple of the Adirondack 3 sided shelters. We took a walk around the pond that is frozen over and can be ice skated on now. Even though it was only 12 degrees when I left to head home, we stayed fairly warm, and the views were gorgeous! It was far to lovely to not get out and enjoy the views of the snow laden pine boughs.

All of you had such helpful words to share - thank you! What I pulled away from your thoughts is that being in a pandemic has made this time super tough for everyone and that it's tough for employees to deal with so many of the things that they must deal with in their jobs. I completely get that, and it's part of the reason I chose to not do or say anything more than I needed to, and it's also why I daily make a choice to be kind and share smiles and tell them thank you whenever I can. Far to many customers make life unpleasant for those who are in the service industry. It's been a long haul for all of us during the pandemic.

It's helpful to know that I'm not alone in that others who have a pwBPD also struggle when similar instances happened. We all need that validation, and we are each given the opportunity to "reframe" the situation as Rev pointed out. I think that's a lot of what I needed to do with my grocery store experience. To take the time to do that helps me to reformat it, and my brain can file this instance away so I can refer back to it in the future, learn from it and respond in the best manner possible.

One of the awarenesses we encourage on the PSI board is to note the manner in which we respond to situations. As a child of a pwBPD, so often especially at the start of our healing journey, we respond in ways that worked as a child but are no longer helpful as an adult. That's where my considering if I did something wrong was no longer helpful. I knew factually I hadn't done anything wrong, but my emotions/feelings defaulted to the same old format (although only in a much smaller percentage than in the past). Whew-so happy to see the improvement.


IAR, this really gets to the heart of the matter- thank you:

There could be several reasons why she acted this way, but the effect of the incident is the same. It's often hard for those of us with cptsd to ask for assistance, make a need known, feel comfortable taking up space in the world. We can live life going around trying to not be a bother to anyone, so when we are faced with a situation like this, our limbic system may start to overwork even though we can articulate the rational components of the situation.

The marriage T my ex and I went to used a term that I so like: enduring vulnerabilities (I think it comes from Gottman's work). Being a child of an uBPDm has left me with so so many of these vulnerable places in my core. I am learning to be aware of them so that I can walk through life better and treat others better and perhaps most importantly, treat myself with much more kindness and care and compassion. It's easier to extend that to others than it is to extend it to myself. The grocery store experience is another opportunity to increase my awareness of my sensitivity to feeling as if I was a bother (starting with my uBPDm) and thus 'earning' the silent treatment and disregard. My ex was especially skilled at poking at this vulnerability too, shutting his eyes when I would talk with him if he was facing me, and keeping his back to me when I would talk and he wasn't facing me. So, lots of chances to learn and grow and shine a light on those enduring vulnerbilites that need extra tlc and healing.

 
Woolsy

[zachira]

Being disrespected and mistreated is a big trigger for those of us who were abused by our close family members. The difference in this case, is the woman in the grocery store really has very little power over you, and cannot do some serious long term emotional damage like our family members who abused us can/could. Being more aware of how we are being treated is not right has its advantages and disadvantages. Certainly you can be much more self aware of people who are not safe and protect yourself better that those people who think that everyone can be trusted. The hypervigilance at times can be upsetting as it can be hard to let go of the feeling of being unsafe and not really understanding what is exactly going on in a situation in which we are being mistreated.

[Methuen]

I appreciated reading your post Wools because I also had a triggering incident in a grocery store a while back, so I could relate.  Like you, I realized I was triggered as it was evolving.  In my case, when I got to the till, I realized I had picked up the wrong version of a product, and told the cashier I had mistakenly picked up the wrong item and politely asked if I could leave it.  What happened next shocked me.  I could instantly tell the cashier had "turned", and then he "ripped" the product out of my hands and loudly slammed it down on the counter beside him.  I was in shock.  It came unexpectedly out of no where, and was so incredibly aggressive.  Like you Wools, I felt "what did I do wrong?" while still knowing I did nothing wrong.  But, it was exactly like when my mother used to "turn" on me!  At the time, I thought "did that really just happen?" and tried to de-escalate by making polite conversation like we all do at the grocery cashier, but he continued in the same manner.  While I knew "it wasn't about me", my struggle was whether or not to report it to a store manager.  It just seemed like he was seething and "about to explode".  I didn't feel safe at the cashier.  I thought, what if he treats an elderly person like this, or someone more vulnerable?  As I was walking past the customer service counter, this battle was going on inside me, to report or not report.  I did not report. I have been through his till many times before, and not had a problem, and "we are all human", but my brain was thinking "grab some self-regulation dude!" Once I got to my vehicle, I had to sit there for a few minutes and process what had happened.  Not gonna lie - I was kind of shook up - as I did nothing to "deserve" that, and no customer should be treated like that.  As I was processing, I reminded myself that it wasn't about me. Then I did my 4 square breathing, and calmed myself down some, before driving home. The drive home was 6 min, and then I was still bothered and shared the event with H.  The whole thing was triggering.  It is one of those things that I will likely always remember:  "that time in the grocery store when...".

In your case, the cashier turning her back on you, then talking about you and laughing afterward, is really upsetting, because her behavior actually suggested intent to hurt, by ignoring you, isolating you, and then trying to humiliate you.  My cashier dude was just reacting to something already going on, and I was simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.  But your cashier gal seems a bit more premeditated with intent to hurt.  That's just my take on it.
But, like me, you were also in the wrong place at the wrong time.  It wasn't really about the coupons.  If I had been at her till and said to her "excuse me I picked up the wrong item by mistake, may I leave it with you?" she would have found some way to dump her toxic feelings on me too.  The coupons were just a tool for her to use her cashier power in a different way (turn her back on you and ignore you).  This is probably how she has been treated in the past (an SO turning their back on her - silent treatment).  

It's difficult because these events are triggering.  This reminds us we have unwanted baggage that we are still dealing with.  Also, no one deserves to be treated like that.  We expect "shopping" to be a "safe" activity.  This thing called customer service is supposed to set standards to prevent this type of thing, and also ensure a "pleasant" shopping experience.  

She never looked at me, just walked away.

This would hurt. No wonder you were upset.  It's juvenile, inappropriate customer service.  She's not representing the store that employs her very well.  I would say that if it happened a second time with the same cashier, it might be worth reporting.  She's not just treating you badly, but will be treating other people badly too.  A question I have, is "when is it appropriate to speak up to a manager, or is it ever? Would that be "ratting", and we shouldn't rat someone out?"  

[pursuingJoy]

Wools, first time I read your post, it only occurred to me that she seemed very insecure. She was blocking your view of the screen because she couldn't get the coupons to work, she was fearful, maybe embarrassed, and didn't want to seem incapable. Maybe she laughed as a way to try to feel some control in a situation that made her feel vulnerable. Her treatment of you was awful, not merited at all. I'm so impressed how you and others here can process this and similar situations. It's a delight to read interactions with people who seek to be self-aware.  Thanks to all for sharing.

She's not just treating you badly, but will be treating other people badly too.

I learned a hard lesson about this. I was at the DMV getting my license renewed. I have a green card to live in the US so I had a stack of USCIS and SS paperwork as overkill. I'd had a DL for 17 years and knew it wouldn't be an issue to get another.

Guy behind the counter was nice enough until he saw I was an immigrant. He proceeded to yell at me, saying I couldn't get a license, I didn't qualify, etc. I was mortified. I quietly gathered my paperwork and my dignity and left the crowded waiting room. First thing, I wrote a letter of complaint for discriminatory treatment to the elected commissioner over the DMV. I came back to deliver a copy to him, at which time I got a full apology from other staff and they expedited my license. I decided not to send the letter.

A year later I was sitting in a meeting, and the man next to me, also an immigrant, happened to mention that he was refused a license and mistreated at the DMV. We talked more and I learned it was the same guy. I felt responsible, because if I'd reported it, maybe it wouldn't have happened to my colleague. We both reported it this time and it was addressed.

I think reporting to management depends on severity and consequence. I never want to get people in trouble. Everyone has bad days. I do wish I'd reported this guy.