New developments are even worse

[who_knows11]

Recent events make me more confident than ever that my uBPDw must definitely have BPD.  The latest developments really made some things click.  It seems that when she gets truly mad at me (past the breaking point as she says) that she suddenly becomes this other person.  The crazy part is that who she becomes would actually be a much better version of herself if it weren't channeled into being a victim and trying to blame me for the world's problems.  When she reaches that point she is suddenly capable of doing absolutely anything on her own no matter how difficult it is.  Completely refuses to take any help from me because she "doesn't need my help".  This is different because when she isn't in this mood she is one of the most helpless people I have ever seen.  The difference is when she is in this mood it's because she finally decides she is confident in who she thinks she is and as a result her insecurities are gone and she believes she can do whatever she wants.  She starts actually living logically because she is so confident in herself during this time that the feelings that cause problems are ignored.  I hope that makes sense.  This turns me away because it is proof that in the other times when she seems helpless and insecure, she is really just playing victim and ignoring the reality that she is capable. 

I'm also afraid that I have reached a point where I have absolutely no respect for her any longer.  I do not respect her values (mainly because I don't feel that she has any), the fact that she plays the victim, or just who she is as a person in general.  That is scary for me to admit but it is true.  The lack of respect really affects what I am willing to do in response to one of her BPD events. 

Also, her episodes reached a new extreme last time.  I also hate to admit this but for the first time she became truly violent.  Did her best to physically assault me.  She was completely incapable of actually hurting me, but she definitely tried her hardest to do so.  She may have even hurt her arm pretty badly in the process.  I'm not scared of this, however in the middle of the episode she told me to be glad she didn't have any kind of a weapon nearby because if she did she would probably kill me.  I don't believe that she would actually do it and she later admitted that she didn't mean it, but that is way over the line.  Who would say that no matter how mad they are?  That was the final straw in me losing what little respect I may have had left for her.

This was basically a chance for  me to blow off steam but I would be very happy to hear anyone's thoughts on these things.  Especially that fact that I have no respect left for her

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

You now understand a few things:
*She is far more capable than she lets on
*She is willing to engage in violence
*She doesn’t need your help

 
Be very careful about exiting the conversation quickly when she is getting worked up. In cases of women attacking men, when the authorities are called, it’s usually the man who is arrested.

[who_knows11]

You now understand a few things:
*She is far more capable than she lets on
*She is willing to engage in violence
*She doesn’t need your help

 
Be very careful about exiting the conversation quickly when she is getting worked up. In cases of women attacking men, when the authorities are called, it’s usually the man who is arrested.

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean when you say exiting the conversation quickly.

Hopefully we won't get to that point.  Unless it worsens authorities won't get called unless she calls them.  I will definitely never be giving her a reason to call them. 

[So many questions]

Please be careful. A very serious line has been crossed. My ex hit me once after I found out she had cheated early on in our relationship. I overlooked it because it was a slap.

I broke up with her and she was extremely embarrassed and sorry. I took her back like an idiot, and eventually, months later during our final break up,  cops were called. I was trying to restrain, but in the end, I was made to look abusive. She even told people I hit her which is absolutely not true.

So she had her perfect exit plan, completely in the clear as the victim. Zero accountability for her actions.

I would walk away before that happens. You can try everything to stop the rage episodes, and they’ll still happen.

[Cat Familiar]

I'm not sure I know exactly what you mean when you say exiting the conversation quickly.

Hopefully we won't get to that point.  Unless it worsens authorities won't get called unless she calls them.  I will definitely never be giving her a reason to call them. 

I meant that it’s important not to get drawn into circular conversations that devolve into her starting to rage. If you see her getting upset, try and take a time out. Tell her something like this, “I’m starting to feel uncomfortable. Let’s take 20 minutes and resume this conversation later.”  And do it…go get her a cup of tea, take the dog outside, check the laundry, whatever…figure out a strategy that separates you two long enough for her to calm down.

It’s possible that neighbors might call the police if they hear her yelling.

[who_knows11]

Please be careful. A very serious line has been crossed. My ex hit me once after I found out she had cheated early on in our relationship. I overlooked it because it was a slap.

I broke up with her and she was extremely embarrassed and sorry. I took her back like an idiot, and eventually, months later during our final break up,  cops were called. I was trying to restrain, but in the end, I was made to look abusive. She even told people I hit her which is absolutely not true.

So she had her perfect exit plan, completely in the clear as the victim. Zero accountability for her actions.

I would walk away before that happens. You can try everything to stop the rage episodes, and they’ll still happen.

Yeah if this looks like it is going to be a reoccurring thing then I would definitely make a change before coming to that

[who_knows11]

I meant that it’s important not to get drawn into circular conversations that devolve into her starting to rage. If you see her getting upset, try and take a time out. Tell her something like this, “I’m starting to feel uncomfortable. Let’s take 20 minutes and resume this conversation later.”  And do it…go get her a cup of tea, take the dog outside, check the laundry, whatever…figure out a strategy that separates you two long enough for her to calm down.

It’s possible that neighbors might call the police if they hear her yelling.

Thankfully the neighbor thing won't be an issue.  No one within ear shot.

I have been trying to work on avoiding the circular.  She basically refuses it though.  She will use my decision as ammo to say I'm giving up or walking out because I don't care.  I know she's just saying it but I don't know that it's worth giving her the ammunition.  She will keep bringing it up in later confrontations.

What do I do about the loss of respect part? That may be what I was most concerned about.  I have no respect for her any longer in basically any regard.  I know that mindset can affect the way you deal with people no matter who it is

[Cat Familiar]

The “You don’t care” is a familiar refrain from BPD individuals. So many folks here are bending over backwards, neglecting their own health and needs, trying to be supportive of their partners, only to hear that accusation.

I’ve dealt with it myself, and it was painful to think that I was perceived in that way, when I did care so much. What I’ve found that stops that *attack*, because it truly is an attack, is to agree with the statement.

“Yes, I don’t care about this insignificant disagreement, but I do care about you.” In real time, this typically doesn’t change much, since my partner was  quite upset when he leveled that accusation. But later, upon reflection, it seemed to have sunk in and over time, I’ve not had to deal with this accusation again. Of course I had to repeat the above statement in multiple instances for it to be effective.

Respect is earned. Her account with you is seriously overdrawn.

[15years]

When she reaches that point she is suddenly capable of doing absolutely anything on her own no matter how difficult it is.  Completely refuses to take any help from me because she "doesn't need my help". 

They are not helpless when it comes to acting out emotionally. This is an emotional response, it's not about her being confident, it's a charade. She's very much in need of an emotional response from you.

That's just a thought.

[who_knows11]

The “You don’t care” is a familiar refrain from BPD individuals. So many folks here are bending over backwards, neglecting their own health and needs, trying to be supportive of their partners, only to hear that accusation.

I’ve dealt with it myself, and it was painful to think that I was perceived in that way, when I did care so much. What I’ve found that stops that *attack*, because it truly is an attack, is to agree with the statement.

“Yes, I don’t care about this insignificant disagreement, but I do care about you.” In real time, this typically doesn’t change much, since my partner was  quite upset when he leveled that accusation. But later, upon reflection, it seemed to have sunk in and over time, I’ve not had to deal with this accusation again. Of course I had to repeat the above statement in multiple instances for it to be effective.

Respect is earned. Her account with you is seriously overdrawn.

The respect thing is the scary part for me.  It's hard to want to help someone you don't respect

[who_knows11]

They are not helpless when it comes to acting out emotionally. This is an emotional response, it's not about her being confident, it's a charade. She's very much in need of an emotional response from you.

That's just a thought.

Thing is she doesn't act helpless when she is acting out.  When she is acting out is the time that she can and will do whatever she wants to do with no issues.  There is no doubt she is looking for an emotional response from me.  The problem is that the emotions that she is causing me to feel are not the emotions that she wants me responding with

[Ellala]

I'm also afraid that I have reached a point where I have absolutely no respect for her any longer.  I do not respect her values (mainly because I don't feel that she has any), the fact that she plays the victim, or just who she is as a person in general.  That is scary for me to admit but it is true.  The lack of respect really affects what I am willing to do in response to one of her BPD events.  

I hear you. I found it hard to respect my ex upwBPD in the end. While initially I believed we shared similar values, his actions did not align with the values he expressed… so it didn't feel like he really had any. I read somewhere that "shifting values" is an expression of BPD.

Also, her episodes reached a new extreme last time.  I also hate to admit this but for the first time she became truly violent.  Did her best to physically assault me.  She was completely incapable of actually hurting me, but she definitely tried her hardest to do so.  She may have even hurt her arm pretty badly in the process.  I'm not scared of this, however in the middle of the episode she told me to be glad she didn't have any kind of a weapon nearby because if she did she would probably kill me.  I don't believe that she would actually do it and she later admitted that she didn't mean it, but that is way over the line.  Who would say that no matter how mad they are?  That was the final straw in me losing what little respect I may have had left for her.

This was basically a chance for  me to blow off steam but I would be very happy to hear anyone's thoughts on these things.  Especially that fact that I have no respect left for her.

I commend you for sharing all this, I understand it's hard. What strikes me about what you wrote is that if she could loose control enough to threaten you, try to hurt you, or even utter the words that she would probably kill you if she had a weapon, who knows what she would/could do if she looses control again in the future. Probably even she doesn't know. Talking about killing you is way over the line and violence tends to escalate without any kind of intervention/serious therapy.

It makes sense that could cause you to loose respect. What she said and did showed no respect for you, your relationship, or wellbeing.

From another angle, looking at how/why she could've said that… her anger at you is not about you. It's a way she avoids feeling her own pain/feelings… so the more intense the anger, the more she is afraid (terrified?) or avoiding being present with herself and painful feelings.

The respect thing is the scary part for me.  It's hard to want to help someone you don't respect

Yes, true. This quote by one of my teachers has stuck with me -
"Losing respect and admiration is the beginning of the end of every relationship".

For me, not only did I lose respect for my ex, I lost respect for myself staying with someone who seriously lacked respect for me, themselves, and the relationship at times. Despite communicating boundaries, the behaviors didn't change and so ending the relationship was the choice I made.

Are you feeling respected? What would you need to feel respected?

[who_knows11]

I hear you. I found it hard to respect my ex upwBPD in the end. While initially I believed we shared similar values, his actions did not align with the values he expressed… so it didn't feel like he really had any. I read somewhere that "shifting values" is an expression of BPD.

I commend you for sharing all this, I understand it's hard. What strikes me about what you wrote is that if she could loose control enough to threaten you, try to hurt you, or even utter the words that she would probably kill you if she had a weapon, who knows what she would/could do if she looses control again in the future. Probably even she doesn't know. Talking about killing you is way over the line and violence tends to escalate without any kind of intervention/serious therapy.

It makes sense that could cause you to loose respect. What she said and did showed no respect for you, your relationship, or wellbeing.

From another angle, looking at how/why she could've said that… her anger at you is not about you. It's a way she avoids feeling her own pain/feelings… so the more intense the anger, the more she is afraid (terrified?) or avoiding being present with herself and painful feelings.

Yes, true. This quote by one of my teachers has stuck with me -
"Losing respect and admiration is the beginning of the end of every relationship".

For me, not only did I lose respect for my ex, I lost respect for myself staying with someone who seriously lacked respect for me, themselves, and the relationship at times. Despite communicating boundaries, the behaviors didn't change and so ending the relationship was the choice I made.

Are you feeling respected? What would you need to feel respected?

Not knowing what she could do is a little unsettling I guess.  To be honest, before she ever had a violent response I sometimes went to bed after an argument and lay awake watching the door for 30 or 40 minutes because for some reason I felt she might come in and start a physical altercation.  That sounds strange to my ear when I say it because I'm not afraid of her but I guess I have always been curious of what she might be capable of.

To this point I don't think that I have lost any respect for myself.  I believe I would get out of the situation before I let that start to happen, but I guess I can't really know that until it happens. 

As far as looking at why she said those things I definitely agree it was internally motivated.  She is an introvert through and through, but the borderline disorder causes her to react emotionally as if she were an extrovert.  Always a response to someone else.  That particular night she had finally decided that she was through and was going to leave me (all based on her perception of me).  That triggered the real introvert that she is to have to deal with the abandonment that it would cause and the BPD ramped up.  She is truly introverted so when she came to that conclusion on her own it caused the biggest reaction because she was now dealing with something that she was truly perceiving on her own. 

What I have learned the most through all of this is that BPD is the most complicated yet intriguing thing (from a psychological perspective) that I have ever seen.  That's about the only positive I can come up with so far