Help... Christian with BPD

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

Hello, I have been on here before about my ex wife. She was not diagnosed, but she had ALL the signs. I got away from circus after 11 years.
Whats the odds I found a real one?
For the last year, I dated an amazing  Christian woman. We are so in love.  matched up in faith, interests, and love language. We are really good together. 
I just found out recently she was diagnosed with BPD.  however, She claims God delivered her in 2017.
Bingo, over  the last year, she has tried breaking up with me 3 times( because we were having premarital sex or small misunderstandings) and now has dumped me and super cold over minor things that could be fixed.
She definitely has back/white thinking, EVEN in the religious world. Any suggestions on that? 
Now, let me fill you in on "why"she dumped me.
The last day I stayed at her place, she was supposed to come back to my house. earlier that day,  She told me she was going to take  a nap, before she came to my place. I didn't think anything of it, as she naps ever single day and says how she enjoys her naps.
So, time for her come and she texts that shes not coming. I asked, "why." she said basically, " I was home not feeling well and you didn't even check on me, so it's best I stay home."
confused, I said, " i didn't know anything was wrong.  Anyhow, I ended up getting my son up and going to her house( 1 hour away).
When I arrived, we settled in and I tried to talk to her about something religious that bothered her earlier. she got a little edgy and didn't want to talk about it.
I was already feeling off, since she cancelled coming to my place. Now, she doesnt want to talk to me.  i asked her does she want me to go home? didn't feel welcome in some ways.  I was feeling rejected and she was off.
anyhow, we just went to bed Saturday night. Got up Sunday morning and it was normal. In fact, when she went to another church service, she asked me to stay there and wait for her to get out to hang out.  I didn't.
I asked her if that upset her and she said, " not at all." Everything normal.
Monday morning I text her and she responded " good morning, handsome." as the conversation went forward, she mentioned saturday night. Then she went into her DREAMS she had that night. I guess she has "demonic" dreams about me cheating, etc.  she said," God gave me warning  dreams and I need to walk away. "
Let me be CLEAR, this woman is 50 and I can tell she as never had a man treat her like me. She tells me that shes never been so connected. She shows it. and I will say I treat her like a queen.
Shes   never even called a name, abused, or raged. it really is good. just seems always trying to break up and black/white thinking.
she was marred twice. 10 yrs and 8 yrs. Those marriages she was ALONE all the time, so never had  a " close relationship."
Although she is regulated in some ways, is this still splitting?

[Turkish]

I remember you...

Then she went into her DREAMS she had that night. I guess she has "demonic" dreams about me cheating, etc.  she said," God gave me warning  dreams and I need to walk away. "

Demonic is pretty harsh. My then not ex once told me that she has a dream that she and the kids were running from some evil entity and that I left them. I said, "see, even in your dreams you think that I'll abandon you!" She replied, "oh, come on..." So why did she tell me? She couldn't see it.

Fear of abandonment is often said here to be a trait of BPD, yet it isn't. The underlying emotions are lack of self-worth and feeling unworthy of love.

It sounds like she definitely split you. What is your feeling about the future? Have you looked into the validation tools about how to go forward with better interactions?

Are you also Christian? It might help to talk a common language, so to speak.

[OutofthePain]

My BPD wife was a black and white Christian. Would read the cover off the Bible but get no peace and treat the kids and me like dirt.

If she’s a two time loser in marriage, your odds of happiness with her are extremely poor.

[PearlsBefore]

[shows off username]

Honestly I'd echo the two opinions before me; if you're not a dyed-in-the-wool traditional religious bloke with similar values to her...then the fact she's got BPD as well as two previous husbands AND has broken up with you in the past...are all big red warning flags.

I think it's the "ABCs of BPD" book (Kreger, I think?) which references BPDs using dreams as justification for their emotional "realities" in passing, though no particularly great insight. (Kreger is over-rated, but a great gateway author to finding better authors).

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

I remember you...

Demonic is pretty harsh. My then not ex once told me that she has a dream that she and the kids were running from some evil entity and that I left them. I said, "see, even in your dreams you think that I'll abandon you!" She replied, "oh, come on..." So why did she tell me? She couldn't see it.

Fear of abandonment is often said here to be a trait of BPD, yet it isn't. The underlying emotions are lack of self-worth and feeling unworthy of love.

It sounds like she definitely split you. What is your feeling about the future? Have you looked into the validation tools about how to go forward with better interactions?

Are you also Christian? It might help to talk a common language, so to speak.

Yes, I am a  Christian and former pastor. Very spiritual and in tune. However, she picks that apart. Although she is a very pleasant person and has most things under  control, she definitely says she sees it all as "black and white."
For  example, she drinks with me, but has a problem if I drink 4 beers. however, she will drink a whole bottle of wine. she cant see it's the same thing.
OVer the year, I have said, " if this is a problem, then lets STOP." she has never taken me up on that.
The last few times she tried this , she blocked me from facebook. She hasn't done it this time, but won't respond to my messages to talke.
I have begged her to at least talk to me, since she did this abrupt through text. SHe replied very short or not at all.

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

My BPD wife was a black and white Christian. Would read the cover off the Bible but get no peace and treat the kids and me like dirt.

If she’s a two time loser in marriage, your odds of happiness with her are extremely poor.

She is actually a very loving, calm person. Like I said, you wouldn't know it without the black and white thinking.
SHe says she ha always been alone. she's never been this close to a man. I know she is telling the truth.
if this is true, how can she walk away over a little disagreement and not even do it where we can discuss the situation?
I asked her last night through messenger, "you are not going to talk to me at all, are you?"
she replied, " its confusing. I need to keep a clear mind and heart..."

[formflier]

Hey...I'm conservative Christian (Southern Baptist type) and have had quite a journey with FFw and BPD (perhaps she is more PPD..but that's another post)

There have been parts of Christianity and Christian practice that have been really helpful and a place of "rest" for us and other parts seem to be very triggering or super easy to slide into black and white thinking.

My conclusion is that BPD affects my wife's "Christian Walk", just like it affects any other close relationship.  Usually the closer she gets to God in her Christian walk, other things will start "rocking and rolling" in her life, especially if the "closer" is a rapid thing.

So...whatever influence I have...I use to keep all the relationships steady.  Not running away...not running towards.

If you want a future with this lady, it's a safe bet that BPD will continue to play out in a similar manner in your relationship, as it has in her other relationships. 

Is that what you want for your future?

Best,

FF

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

Hey...I'm conservative Christian (Southern Baptist type) and have had quite a journey with FFw and BPD (perhaps she is more PPD..but that's another post)

There have been parts of Christianity and Christian practice that have been really helpful and a place of "rest" for us and other parts seem to be very triggering or super easy to slide into black and white thinking.

My conclusion is that BPD affects my wife's "Christian Walk", just like it affects any other close relationship.  Usually the closer she gets to God in her Christian walk, other things will start "rocking and rolling" in her life, especially if the "closer" is a rapid thing.

So...whatever influence I have...I use to keep all the relationships steady.  Not running away...not running towards.

If you want a future with this lady, it's a safe bet that BPD will continue to play out in a similar manner in your relationship, as it has in her other relationships. 

Is that what you want for your future?

Best,

FF

So, we are  conservative Pentecostals. She claims to have been delivered  from this in 2017. I do believe GOd can, I am not sure she has been.
That said, as spiritual and in tune with God as she is, she cannot see that God is LOVE. Love is NOT confusing. He is not the author of confusion. I find that she is disconnected fro m the reality of this and CHOOSES to paint me black.
Again, for a year, we have been so in love. inseparable when we come together.  She has never said anything but how much "our love is intoxicating."
I don't know what to do.  I love her. she is an amazing woman, but she is not focused on love(white) she is focused on fear based concerns(black).

[formflier]

Hey..I'm not arguing with you.  Instead please see this at  an opportunity to think and reflect on your perspective on all this.


Hmm..wonder why I'm focused on your perspective?...(Hint It's because that's all you can control)

To tie this into our "religious discussion"...would you agree what I said is "Biblical"?  (hint..think about free will)

So..with that in mind..let's work through several things you mentioned.

So, we are  conservative Pentecostals. She claims to have been delivered  from this in 2017. I do believe GOd can, I am not sure she has been.

100% agree God can!  

How does she know...KNOW that she has been "delivered"?

As a general principal, if God is "working" in someone's life in a positive way, generally you can see "fruit of the spirit".  Agree?  

So...back to you.  Based on what you "see"...has she been "delivered"?

The facts are that unlike cancer, you can't get a PET scan to see if it is still in your body.  So...focus on her behavior.

That said, as spiritual and in tune with God as she is, she cannot see that God is LOVE.

I would encourage you to think about how you would know...I mean KNOW...that she "sees" God is love.  

Do all people experience "God is love" in the same way?  And how would this relate to BPD (maybe it does..maybe it doesn't)

Love is NOT confusing. He is not the author of confusion. I find that she is disconnected from the reality of this and CHOOSES to paint me black.

I would encourage you to step back and not "conflate" important issues...don't tie together unrelated things.

How does "Him not being the author of confusion" relate to whether or not she paints you black?

What if you stepped back and realized that pwBPD paint people black.  Regardless of how they view God.  That's just the way they are.

Furthermore...the closer people are to them...the more they "paint them black".  So...(take a deep breath) the "closer" she feels to you...the "blacker" she will likely paint you.

Ugg...talk about a catch 22.

Again, for a year, we have been so in love. inseparable when we come together.  She has never said anything but how much "our love is intoxicating."
I don't know what to do.  I love her. she is an amazing woman, but she is not focused on love(white) she is focused on fear based concerns(black).

Likely NOT helpful to spend much time and brainpower analyzing what she is focused on.

Because...will you ever know?  

As opposed to "looking in the mirror" and sorting out what you are focused on..because you can 100% know that...control that...change that and enjoy the outcome/or experience whatever negative outcome from your decisions.

Best,

FF

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

Hey..I'm not arguing with you.  Instead please see this at  an opportunity to think and reflect on your perspective on all this.


Hmm..wonder why I'm focused on your perspective?...(Hint It's because that's all you can control)

To tie this into our "religious discussion"...would you agree what I said is "Biblical"?  (hint..think about free will)

So..with that in mind..let's work through several things you mentioned.

100% agree God can!  

How does she know...KNOW that she has been "delivered"?

As a general principal, if God is "working" in someone's life in a positive way, generally you can see "fruit of the spirit".  Agree?  

So...back to you.  Based on what you "see"...has she been "delivered"?

The facts are that unlike cancer, you can't get a PET scan to see if it is still in your body.  So...focus on her behavior.

I would encourage you to think about how you would know...I mean KNOW...that she "sees" God is love.  

Do all people experience "God is love" in the same way?  And how would this relate to BPD (maybe it does..maybe it doesn't)




I would encourage you to step back and not "conflate" important issues...don't tie together unrelated things.

How does "Him not being the author of confusion" relate to whether or not she paints you black?

What if you stepped back and realized that pwBPD paint people black.  Regardless of how they view God.  That's just the way they are.

Furthermore...the closer people are to them...the more they "paint them black".  So...(take a deep breath) the "closer" she feels to you...the "blacker" she will likely paint you.

Ugg...talk about a catch 22.

Likely NOT helpful to spend much time and brainpower analyzing what she is focused on.

Because...will you ever know?  

As opposed to "looking in the mirror" and sorting out what you are focused on..because you can 100% know that...control that...change that and enjoy the outcome/or experience whatever negative outcome from your decisions.

Best,

FF

I am focused on my perspective and try not to give too much brain power. But, it's hard when you love them and  a fixer!
I do believe she has the fruit of the spirit.  we have an amazing, close relationship.
However, the black and white thinking is there. she has busted out yelling at me in a public place before.
The reason I said God/love isn't the author of confusion, is because I asked her, " you aren't going to talk to me, are you?" she replied, "it's confusing. I need to  stay clear headed and hearted."

[formflier]

I do believe she has the fruit of the spirit.  we have an amazing, close relationship.
However, the black and white thinking is there. she has busted out yelling at me in a public place before.
 

Hey...I think we are close on this.  I've considered "fruit of the spirit" to be a change you can see due to a new or renewed relationship with God.  

Yet..stick with the same thought about "seeing fruit".  If it is true that she has been "delivered"..then there should be consistent "fruit" to "testify" to that being true.   Much like people wondering if you are "in God's will".   (I'm trying to stay very broad and general here).  If things are going well...perhaps that is one way to see that there is "fruit"..which would testify that it's likely you are in God's will.

Wow...used a lot of words there.

Plus...let's avoid black and white thinking. Off or on. Yes or no.  

Perhaps we apply the same thinking to "delivered"...maybe it's not a yes or no thing.  Maybe it's "better" but not "completely healed".




Can we switch gears for some coaching?

I'm going to guess that "you aren't going to talk to me, are you?" is a typical thing or type of thing that you say.  Fair?

If you look at that..what is the "assumption"?  The assumption is that she decided she isn't going to talk and I would think there is a negative connotation on some level that goes with that.

Compare that to

"Oh babe...when is a good time for us to talk?"

Look at the big parts.  "babe" (at least for me)...tends to "soften" me..and my delivery.  (think gruff military guy...or "direct" military guy.)

So...I "soften" things and then I have the assumption that we will talk, and you care enough that you want her opinion on what is best.

So...nothing "wrong" with what you said, I hope you can see that perhaps my suggestion might be more successful.

Best,

FF
 

[ForeverDad]

She was marred twice. 10 yrs and 8 yrs. Those marriages she was ALONE all the time, so never had  a "close relationship."

This is her perception of her prior relationships.  PwBPD focus on perceptions while sidelining reality and facts.

And when describing past relationships, they are invariably cast as negative ones, without exception.  You don't have to guess how you will be described once you're in her past.

Furthermore...the closer people are to them...the more they "paint them black".  So...(take a deep breath) the "closer" she feels to you...the "blacker" she will likely paint you.

Ugg...talk about a catch 22.

Likely NOT helpful to spend much time and brainpower analyzing what she is focused on.

Because...will you ever know?

And you're likely to become just like her other ex-relationships when either you end it or she dumps you.  Based upon her past history of 8-10 year marriages, she could keep you around for a few years more of her roller coaster ups and downs.  But eventually...

About the spiritual claims.  A person is still disordered.  My then-spouse and I went to our child's pediatrician.  He suggested she get some counseling.  Her retort?  "I have the Bible!"  True, but some counseling would have been helpful too.

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

This is her perception of her prior relationships.  PwBPD focus on perceptions while sidelining reality and facts.

And when describing past relationships, they are invariably cast as negative ones, without exception.  You don't have to guess how you will be described once you're in her past.

And you're likely to become just like her other ex-relationships when either you end it or she dumps you.  Based upon her past history of 8-10 year marriages, she could keep you around for a few years more of her roller coaster ups and downs.  But eventually...

About the spiritual claims.  A person is still disordered.  My then-spouse and I went to our child's pediatrician.  He suggested she get some counseling.  Her retort?  "I have the Bible!"  True, but some counseling would have been helpful too.

Her first marriage was unfulfilling(she says). But, he never touched her and was always gone. she suspected he was gay.
the second marriage, His mistress sent her pics of them together, so that was for infidelity.
Yeah, she thinks the Bible is all she need. I agree to a degree. But, using the bibles principles for good counseling would do wonders, I agree.

[formflier]

  But, using the bibles principles for good counseling would do wonders, 

So if you think about Scripture, it seems like there is always "grace" before "truth".  Broadly speaking, lots of the messages were about "preparing peoples hearts"...for the truth.

Stick with  me here...


This basic concept is especially true with pwBPD. 

Likely due to unstable emotions they need lots...LOTS of "grace' before any "hard truth" is given to them

You can look up SET format of communicating..I hope you can "see"   grace before truth.

The "upside" of using the Bible is certainly there for pwBPD, however..the pitfalls seem to be very great for "misuse" or "abuse" of Scripture.  (perhaps my personal experience colors this a bit..and I do recall lots of wacky interpretation of scripture stories on here by pwBPD.


Best,

FF

[Jax_Fit_Guy]

So if you think about Scripture, it seems like there is always "grace" before "truth".  Broadly speaking, lots of the messages were about "preparing peoples hearts"...for the truth.

Stick with  me here...


This basic concept is especially true with pwBPD. 

Likely due to unstable emotions they need lots...LOTS of "grace' before any "hard truth" is given to them

You can look up SET format of communicating..I hope you can "see"   grace before truth.

The "upside" of using the Bible is certainly there for pwBPD, however..the pitfalls seem to be very great for "misuse" or "abuse" of Scripture.  (perhaps my personal experience colors this a bit..and I do recall lots of wacky interpretation of scripture stories on here by pwBPD.


Best,

FF

I have bent over backwards to hit the mark, but the mark is always moved. Ive given grace, patience, kindness.
she didn't like how much I drink. So, one night, she was aggravated that I drank  4 beers. However, she drink a whole bottle of wine. when I said that,  She wasn't having it. she cannot see any other perspective of right and wrong, but hers. No compromise.  extremely critical and hypocritical.
Another time, she broke up with me because I had a drink with alcohol in it, because she didn't want me drinking liquir.  I thought she meant like straight liquir. However, before that,  she got a margarita. SO, I said that, and she got defensive and said " i was with you."
now, let's be clear, I have told her she first said something about drinking, let's just stop before it will ruin the relationship. ITold her a few other times. She doesnt want to quit so she didnt take me up on that. But, she dumped ME for it.
she doesn't have the  capacity to see her faults at all, nor does she see her very hypocritical and hypercritical lens she glares at me through.
Anyhow, she did message me back tonight and said " I love you and always will love you, but we cannot be together. 

[Turkish]

My ex grew up with a drinking, abusive and cheating father. When I met her, I think her father didn't get his license back from a DUI. She reacted very negatively of I drank beer at all except for the few social occasions we did together when dating.

This is more about her than you. I'm not sure how to proceed given the last communication.

When my ex first broke up with me, I was kind of relieved, yet she threw it back, "if you love someone, you'd fight for them!" Cue our only recycle...

It might be worth a try. I'm not sure tossing that into her court would be good, but you might offer that you are... if you are willing to. The danger is that at first it puts you in the one- down position, but it might open up dialog. Even if she's really done, the conversations will likely go on for a while. It's up to you to proceed or end it gracefully and be done.