I do not know what to do

[Go3737]

Together 40 years, married 38
She has BPD / Narc issues.
I am healthy as per several therapists.
I left the apartment after she drank alcohol, raged and threw me out violently.
I came back two days later after she begged me to.
A week later she verbally and emotionally destroyed me and I left. I've been out of the home for 8 weeks.
We text and call almost every day sometimes several times daily and have long phone calls.
We've seen each other afew times.
Last time was a weekend spent with our new granddaughter. Wife was warm but wouldnt allow me to touch her. This upset me as I thought we were getting better.
Plan is to stay apart for three more weeks then co-habit for a three month trial.
She said she wouldnt drink while we are together but I know she is lying since she continues to drink and hide it from me and i will not be by her side 24/7 during the trial.
I expressed sadness at no touching as it is my main love language.
I am seriously considering divorce at this point.
The loves gay men who in the past have interfered in our marriage. I have no problem with homosexuality until it gets between us which it has several times in the past. She cheated once 7 years into the marriage which we got past (I got past sort of... scars remain)
I am faithful, honest and an overall good man.
I just want my wife back and a peaceful and happy end of life. I will be 70 soon and not looking forward to starting over again. We have grown children and a grandchild now whose lives are just beginning and the thought of not being a family hurts.

The trauma bond is one of the most painful experiences I have felt in a very long time.

I am not sure if I should just pull the plug, move to my own place and divorce her or give this 3 month trial a try. I know it would be easier to break it off now if that is what is in our future in a few months since i could do it clean now without her present.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

Why not do the “three month trial” apart, with the condition that she attend AA or get counseling for her substance abuse?

Should she be willing to do that and successful, you could then do a three month trial together.

[Go3737]

She did AA... used it for getting attention, stopped drinking for 90 days, and when they caught onto her she stopped going and started drinking again.

We've been apart for two months now.

I think me leaving made her worse. I couldn't stay.
She progressively got worse when i told her I would not live with her if she drank. Then she finally blew. Drinking releases the beast and she becomes terribly abusive.

[B2]

If you decide to stay, you have to do it knowing there's a good possibility she will never improve.  I have gone through the same thought process; wishing I could have the sweet, wonderful spouse all the time.  He will come out and then randomly go away.  It's emotionally exhausting.  You know your spouse better than anyone.  Can  you put up with how she is now? 

[Go3737]

I don't think so.

I have access to her texting and she is telling her friends I am the abuseive partner. She is planning on drinking even though she told me she wouldnt.
She is making friends with men and she knows thats a big red line for me.
She does not know I can see the texts.
My choice is to get an apartment and start the divorce now before she comes back, or wait to see how she responds once we are back together.

I have most ducks lined up besides a place to go but that is easy as i am in a large city.

I am so trauma bonded that I want to reach out to her yet she tells friends I am so annoying but she reaches out to me.

So confusing.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Go...

I’m really sorry you find yourself in this very painful and confusing time with your wife.  It’s definitely extremely difficult when you’re dealing with a long term partner who has both disordered and disease driven (alcohol-fueled) behavior. 

And the thing maybe is, tho’ I don’t know your relationship history, that perhaps since she has engaged in these behaviors for years without any real consequences, she may see no reason to change now?  I don’t know, my friend.

We often say here, “nothing changes until something changes”.

There was a question I had to finally seriously ask myself a few years ago before I had to let my relationship end.  And yes, I still loved him when it needed to end.  My question was nearly identical to what you long for, so I’ll ask you:

Can you say when, in your marriage home, was the last time you experienced a happy and peaceful existence with your wife?  How long does that generally last and are both you and your wife active contributors to that peace and happiness?

Please stay with us.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[Go3737]

"Can you say when, in your marriage home, was the last time you experienced a happy and peaceful existence with your wife?  How long does that generally last and are both you and your wife active contributors to that peace and happiness?"

For the most part we were happy and peaceful.
Throughout our life together (we worked in our small biz together for 25 years and raised three amazing children) most of it was great... then there were the rages usually alcohol fueled. Our problems almost always stemmed from either her drinking rages or her getting way too close to her gay writing partners (she is an actress/recording artist) who always ended up getting jealous of me and turning her against me and I complained. I then said no more opposite sex friends.

In 2012 i realized I was "walking on eggshells" bought the book and understood the problem. Then the memory of her brother abusing her sexually at 8 arose, her father abandoned her after the death of her mother. He got remarried at 70 and his new wife turned him against her and cut communications. He dies last year and she went into a tailspin.

The pandemic was a godsend for us as we locked down but got a ton of online remote work. We were busier than ever and happy.
She drank during lockdown but was calm.

Problems started again when her friends started going out end of last year as the pandemic waned. She became jealous and desperate to get out there and find work. It became an obsession. I helped as I could to find her work which didn't materialize.

Our 38th anniversary started great but quickly turned into a disaster as she got drunk and raged at me for hours which the next day she felt terrible about. A week later she got drunk when our kids were coming over. Next day I laced into her and told her I wouldnt live with her if she continued drinking and raging.

It went downhill from there. She got a new therapist and started working on herself. And defended her drinking and friending anyone she wanted to.
Her attitude became very selfish and she was angry at me more often and began picking on everything I did or said until she went out, got drunk and raged on me to get out. She got violent so i left for two nights because last time this happened (two years ago) she called the police (i didnt get arrested since they knew she was drunk and I was clean and no physical damage was evident). I came home and suffered a week of verbal abuse until the morning she destroyed me verbally and emotionally for over an hour while i just listened. I collapsed on the floor (mind you i am an emotionally strong man) from the onslaught against my character and she said "since you are not talking to me i will leave". She ignored me on the floor curled up in a ball sobbing and left to take a walk... and i packed and went to a hotel, then an airbnb. That was 7 weeks ago.

We've been talking and texting throughout with me telling her i missed her and loved her. She meanwhile texts her friends how much of a loser I am but when we communicate she is pleasant to me.

Our plan is to get back together in two weeks to co-habit and see if we can make it work. In the meantime, I have prepared to divorce if it comes to that.

This past weekend we were together at my sons new house with new granddaughter. Wife is there helping with the baby while I came back home. It was a nice weekend until i tried to touch her hand. She recoiled. We slept in the same bed but she wouldnt allow any touching. It triggered me and i got upset and went home the next day as planned. Before i left she gave me several hugs. I think she knew how badly I was hurt.

So here i am now home alone and found this board. I will have my ducks lined up in case things go south when we are back together. I know that doing this planning will help me out the door if she blows up again. I am frightened at that very thought. Being alone at 70 and having to start over with limited income and without the woman i love and have lived life with for 40 years. Yes, trauma bonded. I miss her badly.

I am so sad about it all and not sure what to do or how to feel.
I have a passion that I am involved with since i was 12 but even that is now becoming stale to me. Yes I am in therapy for over 6 years now helping me deal with this insanity.

.I don't know what to do.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi Go -

I can definitely understand why you don’t know how to feel or what to do... from what you’ve outlined, there is SO much to unpack here and at this point, nothing is clear.  That much IS clear, my friend.  And I could easily ask fifty more questions...  but no.  If it’s okay with you, I’d just like to explore few areas with you for the time being.

Sometimes things can get kind of painfully honest here.  We have to hold a mirror up to each other because those in our “real” lives may not truly understand or don’t believe what we are living through.  Here we know.  We’ve lived it.  Like you.  So you’re safe here.  You can be comfortable and none of what I’m saying is to judge you or hurt you.  I have been exactly where you stand.  My heart hurts with you.

So first, when I said “Nothing changes until something changes”, please try and wrap your head around that statement.  Because if you go back home to things EXACTLY as they were when you left - with you insisting that she not drink and not be friends with her male writing partners or any men; and her “hiding” alcohol consumption, pushing you physically away and seeing her male friends/colleagues whenever she pleases... well, you’d likely be walking straight back into the violent and raging fire, correct?  So what discussions have you and your W had or will you have around these boundaries?

Second, has she taken responsibility for her most recent violent actions toward you (that prompted you to check into the hotel for two nights); before she again verbally berated you for a week prompting you to leave for these 7 weeks thus far.  And if she has taken responsibility, what did that look like and feel like to you?

Third - and this is a really hard one to put down.  The “turning people against”.  You talk about this twice, three times really.  First in your earlier post where she is basically calling you abusive in text messages you can currently see to her friends.  In this post where her male friends were jealous of you and “turning her against you”; and third, where her late father’s wife (when he was 70) “turned him against her”.  I am older (64) and have experienced lots and lots of people, both very healthy and disordered.  I do know NOW that people can do “smear” campaigns, even against people with whom they’re involved in close relationships.  My ex did this against me... with his own mother.  And that was my straw.  So it backfired on him.  My friend, you are seeing in real time the text messages she is writing to her friends... I know this is hurtful to you and I’m so so sorry.  She’s doing this because you have left the home and she cannot tell the truth about what she’s done TO you.  But how does what you’re seeing make you feel?

I know... but these are the things we have to talk about.  And then we can move on to the communication tools, the “truth” and emotion behind her rages, etc.

My final thought is this, my friend.  Sometimes it is okay to do nothing for a bit.  To make no decision.  To NOT have to KNOW how to feel.  It’s okay to just “be”.  Nothing and no one says you have to go back in 2 weeks for three months if you’re unprepared at that particular moment.  Correct?  It is your life.

Your life.

Warmly,
Gems

[Go3737]

1 - you’d likely be walking straight back into the violent and raging fire, correct?  So what discussions have you and your W had or will you have around these boundaries?

YES! I have tried to have conversations about it but she refuses to talk about it.

2 - has she taken responsibility for her most recent violent actions toward you

NO! She blames me for inciting her. Typical.

3 - But how does what you’re seeing make you feel?

I am not sure if she is playing her friends to make her look better and me worse or playing me by being pleasant on the phone and in text.

I feel that I must go back into the frying pan to determine exactly how hot it really is. My gut says she is sacred of divorce, of being without me. But on the other hand i also feel as if she is re-evaluating her life now that she is older, kids are grown, biz is dead and my mother who we took care of is gone. If I bailed now I think I'd be filled with doubts, and possibly regret. I would rather endure another rage to make up my mind.

I have a bank account and PO box secured and the means to move 1/2 savings and direct deposit of my income. I will also have my bag packed and ready to go at a moments notice. I am in much better shape to leave than 7 weeks ago when I was basically in shock. That has worn off and the Trauma bond seems to be lessening or at least I am finding ways to thwart it.

I know this is difficult for everyone here dealing with similar situations and I find these forums very helpful. I have participated in Soberliving, surviving infidelity, Talkaboutmarriage, and Spouses of CSA boards. I am active on FB. I am no stranget to online forums.

I do want to thank you Gems for taking your time, attention and compassion in responding to my posts. And i do understand that I don't have to do anything if I dont want to. My choices are many living in this very large city and I do have a significant support system.

Bottom line is this sucks.
I thought I'd give you some words I've written down for myself as what I'd like in my marriage:

Honesty
Trust
Faithfulness
Loyalty
Support
Respect
Forgiveness
Compassion
Empathy
Sympathy
Tenderness
Intimacy
Courtesy
Love
Caring
Desire
Sharing
Friendship
Companionship
Consideration
Communication

[StartingHealing]

Go3737

While my situation is structurally different, I do have understanding of the emotional upheaval that you are currently going through. 

It does suck. 

This space is a great resource. 

All the best to you on your journey.

[Go3737]

Update and looking for advice:

Wife has been staying at son's new house helping with the baby and setting up the house.
We've been talking over the past few days. Good easy conversations about her experience at the house.

The plan is for me to go to the house for Fathers day. She and I will sleep in the same bed Sunday night then for her to go home and I will stay there for a week then travel to see a cousin for a few days. Afterwards I will return home with wife to try a three month "co-habiting" arrangement where she wont drink (so she says).

Last night she told me she may want to stay a few more days with me at sons home. She told me she loves me.

I notice in the phone bill that she is speaking much less to her toxic friend and much more with me. Perhaps her friend has had enough nonsense and she is turning her attention back to me for supply.

She told me no sex but we can hold and cuddle each other. That sex will take a bit of time. She was never very sexual anyway except at the beginning of the relationship decades ago. I am ok with this for the time being and I believe she will initiate sex if she does stay a few days.

I am not a fool. I have an attorney lined up, financials in order, a PO box, separate bank account, and all my important papers securely saved in another location. I am prepared to leave the relationship if need be. I feel much more at peace because it these preparations. I also have a voice recorder to keep with me at all times in case she starts to escalate and potentially call the police on a false DV charge. She is completely unaware of these plans.

She has a good therapist now and I see some improvements in her behavior and understanding. She is still not taking blame for the abuse that caused me to leave two months ago.

I am aware that this may just be part of the BPD/Narc recycling.

I am much more aware of the situation from reading this site the past week. I hope this isn't just the recycle.

Thoughts?