About to start the divorce process

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Thanks to many of you for your support over the years.

After initial lawyer consultations late last year, I'm finally moving ahead with this. Any remaining doubts and "what ifs" got wiped away. I'm worried about the process, but I'm feeling confident enough and looking forward to the outcome. I don't think I have any particular asks at this point. Just wanted to pop back in here and say hi.

Some of the things that had still been holding me back from divorce had to do with how it may affect our D11. For the past two years, my uBPDw has been mistreating our D pretty consistently. So it eventually became clear enough to me that I need to get D out of this situation and give her at least one stable home.

Then I worried about how D may also be affected by divorce. I know, the point I mentioned above should have been enough, but still... Then several weeks ago, D told me how W's treatment has been affecting her, how she's tried everything that everyone has suggested and W still blows up at her. D likes spending time with her mom when she's in a more normal state, but not the way W has been far too often for the past two years. It turns out D remembered somewhat similar events from as far back as 6 years ago too. Sadly, I remember them first starting with D was 2.

So now W is going on 4 weeks of mostly silent treatment towards D, intermittently blaming D for it.

D has also opened up quite a bit to the family therapist we started working with relatively recently. D asked for another session with her alone.

As for me, I think I've chosen a lawyer. I'm checking on one last thing, and then I'll sign and pay the retainer.

All the lawyers I've consulted with said anything other than 50/50 custody is unusual. The one I'm planning to work with mentioned that it may be possible to get tie-breaker decision-making for legal custody. I'll work on figuring out, with my lawyer, how far I can push on custody, both legal and physical.

I finally saw my T again this week. She asked me how I think W may respond. I find it kind of amazing that I have no idea. Depending on her mood and the situation, she could be absolutely surprised or may have seen it coming, and she may fight tooth and nail for custody or she may say that D wants nothing to do with her and so I should take D.

My parents know I'm working up to divorce, and I shared it with my brother and sister-in-law too. It helps to have some support.

We're all living in the same house. I'm sleeping in the room I had been using as a home office. The lawyer recommended I stay here until we have a custody agreement, so I'm staying. If or when I leave, I would plan to do so with D. I won't leave her behind. If W chooses to leave, that'll be her choice. I won't hold her back, and I'd be sure to document it.

So I'm getting closer to starting the divorce journey. I hope it's as easy as possible, but I'm preparing for the worst.

[zaqsert]

Thanks to many of you for your support over the years.

After initial lawyer consultations late last year, I'm finally moving ahead with this. Any remaining doubts and "what ifs" got wiped away. I'm worried about the process, but I'm feeling confident enough and looking forward to the outcome. I don't think I have any particular asks at this point. Just wanted to pop back in here and say hi.

Some of the things that had still been holding me back from divorce had to do with how it may affect our D11. For the past two years, my uBPDw has been mistreating our D pretty consistently. So it eventually became clear enough to me that I need to get D out of this situation and give her at least one stable home.

Then I worried about how D may also be affected by divorce. I know, the point I mentioned above should have been enough, but still... Then several weeks ago, D told me how W's treatment has been affecting her, how she's tried everything that everyone has suggested and W still blows up at her. D likes spending time with her mom when she's in a more normal state, but not the way W has been far too often for the past two years. It turns out D remembered somewhat similar events from as far back as 6 years ago too. Sadly, I remember them first starting with D was 2.

So now W is going on 4 weeks of mostly silent treatment towards D, intermittently blaming D for it.

D has also opened up quite a bit to the family therapist we started working with relatively recently. D asked for another session with her alone.

As for me, I think I've chosen a lawyer. I'm checking on one last thing, and then I'll sign and pay the retainer.

All the lawyers I've consulted with said anything other than 50/50 custody is unusual. The one I'm planning to work with mentioned that it may be possible to get tie-breaker decision-making for legal custody. I'll work on figuring out, with my lawyer, how far I can push on custody, both legal and physical.

I finally saw my T again this week. She asked me how I think W may respond. I find it kind of amazing that I have no idea. Depending on her mood and the situation, she could be absolutely surprised or may have seen it coming, and she may fight tooth and nail for custody or she may say that D wants nothing to do with her and so I should take D.

My parents know I'm working up to divorce, and I shared it with my brother and sister-in-law too. It helps to have some support.

We're all living in the same house. I'm sleeping in the room I had been using as a home office. The lawyer recommended I stay here until we have a custody agreement, so I'm staying. If or when I leave, I would plan to do so with D. I won't leave her behind. If W chooses to leave, that'll be her choice. I won't hold her back, and I'd be sure to document it.

So I'm getting closer to starting the divorce journey. I hope it's as easy as possible, but I'm preparing for the worst.

[ForeverDad]

We're here for you and your daughter.  News about a separation or divorce can trigger extreme actions, reactions and overreactions.  You would be wise to have your family nearby or on standby just in case, and keep in close touch with them so they know how things are going.  Being alone is not advisable.  Things can go south in too many ways.

You may want to be recording yourself.  Not that you would do anything wrong, but you are very likely to be accused (or framed) of doing something wrong.  That's why I "recorded myself" since those recordings, most of which never saw the light of day, were my insurance that I wasn't the one misbehaving.

Also, don't let your daughter be isolated from you.  She may come under intense pressure to paint you as the problem person.

[kells76]

Agree with ForeverDad -- given this:

I finally saw my T again this week. She asked me how I think W may respond. I find it kind of amazing that I have no idea. Depending on her mood and the situation, she could be absolutely surprised or may have seen it coming, and she may fight tooth and nail for custody or she may say that D wants nothing to do with her and so I should take D.

My parents know I'm working up to divorce, and I shared it with my brother and sister-in-law too. It helps to have some support.

you can consider taking a mini-vacation (weekend+) with your D to see your family, and having your W served at home at the same time. Something where (a) you're not alone with W when it happens, and (b) D is out of the line of fire.

[PeteWitsend]

Good luck.

I'd recommend absolutely fighting for more than 50% and with tie-breaker authority

you might have to fork over more money to your stbx though... in my experience, pwBPD might after a lot of fighting agree to custody concessions, but they will not give an inch when it comes to $$$.

But consider that it might be in your best interest to give a little in exchange for being able to keep your BPDxw from moving further away or changing your D's school to make it harder for you to see her (assuming she will be the primary custodian).

Also, you have to be your own advocate sometimes.  even if your attorney tells you that you may not win something, fight for it.  Having the courage of your convictions goes a long way toward winning over decision makers in the divorce process... judges, juries, mediators, etc.

[ForeverDad]

I had a decent lawyer who stayed with me for 8 years of divorce and post-divorce efforts.  Though he had no interest in fixing my lousy alternate weekend temp order during the 2 year divorce, though he had no interest in viewing my then-stbEx as more than bats&! crazy, over the 6 years post-divorce he walked me through court approved increases in custody and parenting time.

So to those lawyers who say "realistically, you probably can't get more than equal time" I would reply, "Well, my goal (besides being the best father I can be) is to get as much custodial authority and parenting time as possible.  If I don't reach that goal in the initial temp order, then I will seek it in the divorce, and if not there then my ex is sure to mess up in the following years and I'll go back to court as incidents occur to get whatever incremental improvements I can."

That said, I can share a lesson I learned the hard way.  Get the best temp order possible from the start.  It will save you from struggling to catch up later in the following months and years.  My ex was facing a Threat of DV charge in one court yet she was able to go to domestic court and get temp custody and temp majority time.  I was dumbfounded.  As an adult she looked bad but court defaulted her to parent in charge?  Be prepared for such "default" preferences by judges and those associated with the courts.  My lawyer told me to let it go, it would be fixed later.  Yeah, temp order was never fixed, I had to wait for the final decree to get equal time.

I walked out of divorce with Shared Parenting (equal time) and I was in charge of school-related matters which made me the residential parent.  Every couple years thereafter I had basis to return to court and convince the court for incremental improvements.  By the time he turned 12 I was both Legal Guardian and had just gotten majority time during the school year.

Get the best (or "least bad") temp order possible from the start.

[zaqsert]

Thank you, ForeverDad, Kells76, and PeteWitsend!

We're here for you and your daughter.

I know. And I'm grateful for it.

You may want to be recording yourself.

I'm in a two-party recording state (California). But I suppose it would still be safer than not recording. I also remember reading from others here that while the recordings might not be used, no one seems to have gotten in any trouble for recording.

you can consider taking a mini-vacation (weekend+) with your D to see your family, and having your W served at home at the same time. Something where (a) you're not alone with W when it happens, and (b) D is out of the line of fire.

D and I just came back from seeing family. The distance from home and being with family is part of what helped me move forward. Since we just got back and they live on the opposite coast, taking another mini-vacation would be harder.

Interestingly, several lawyers and my T suggested telling W privately. The idea seemed to be to have it come across as somewhat less confrontational and perhaps a bit more collaborative. All of the lawyers recommended starting with mediation to reach agreement on as much as possible. Fingers crossed there.

I like your suggestion, Kells76. I'm just not sure yet how I'll approach it.

Good reminders, PeteWitsend and ForeverDad, to go for what I want and believe is best for D, and to fight for it too.

[...] stbx [...]

This caught my attention. I've been referring to W as "uBPDw" or "W" ever since I first found my way here 9 years ago. Now "stbx" is starting to feel more appropriate. Funny how much meaning a label can convey.

[alterK]

Zaq, you are getting a lot of good advice. I would just add this one point. You are about to get into a difficult negotiation, probably with a person who won't like to negotiate.

So as in a business negotiation, don't start it with your fallback, bottom line position. Start by asking for more than you expect to get. That way you can give up some, and still have a decent chance of getting what you really want.

If you start by asking for what your bottom line is, then you will probably get less. Instead, even if you start by asking for something you think is unreasonable and expect to get a "No way!" response (though you might be surprised and get a concession right away)--then you can give up something, and you will look reasonable in everyone's eyes.

[kells76]

Good advice from alterK:

as in a business negotiation, don't start it with your fallback, bottom line position. Start by asking for more than you expect to get.

1000% that.

And, going back to this:

All the lawyers I've consulted with said anything other than 50/50 custody is unusual. The one I'm planning to work with mentioned that it may be possible to get tie-breaker decision-making for legal custody. I'll work on figuring out, with my lawyer, how far I can push on custody, both legal and physical.

In some states, "physical" custody (which I believe means "parenting time" or "% residence at a house") and "legal" custody (i.e. legal decision making) are separate things. In our state, however, there is only "custody" and it's either an exactly equal split or 100% one or the other parent.

So when the L's say "50/50 is typical", do they mean in terms of parenting time, legal decision making, both, or other?

This is really important and ties in with alterK's point on negotiation.

Because your D's mom has BPD traits, she has a strong focus on feeling like she is the best and "on top" and winning.

If you start out by offering "fair" or "equal", she will NOT feel like "she is winning" and will negotiate emotionally for more for her, whether she can handle it or not. "Getting more" and/or "beating you" is what she'll want in the process -- not fairness or equality, which would leave her in an uncomfortably ambiguous place of wondering if she is better or worse than you. Her perspective may be: she MUST get MORE than you.

This can be leveraged in your daughter's best interest, which is to spend as much time as possible with you and to have you be tie breaker on mental health/school/ other legal decisions.

Find aspects of parenting plans/custody agreements that you would be OK with your D's mom having. Of course, don't offer those right away. Examples would be: she is tiebreaker on vision care, orthodontics, gynecological care, religion, etc -- whatever areas you can genuinely be like, OK, as long as I am tiebreaker on medical, dental, mental health, school, and dangerous activities, sure, she can feel like she "won" those. This is where you want to find out what those L's mean by "50 50 is typical in your state" really means.

Another aspect of a PP that you can "grudgingly cede" in negotiation is certain holidays. Would she feel like she "won" if she "forced you" to give up Halloween, Easter, New Year's Day, etc? Can you "play the long game" and instead of trading Christmas Day every year... give it to her every year, as long as you get Christmas Eve every year, plus majority parenting time? DH did this and it has worked out pretty well, all things considered (given how poorly everything else worked, sigh).

Can you also work in some "broadly normal" requirements for "both parents to attend and complete Local Post-Divorce Parenting Class by the Day/Date that Parenting Plan is signed off on by Judge, in order to exercise said parenting time unsupervised"? And "until parent completes requirement, that parent's PT shall be supervised at that parent's expense"? That might be a reach, but I wonder if you and your L could find some really normal sounding requirements and tie parenting time in to completion. You won't have a problem doing that, but your D's mom may balk... but that's her issue.

Food for thought...

kells76

[ForeverDad]

I'm in a two-party recording state (California). But I suppose it would still be safer than not recording. I also remember reading from others here that while the recordings might not be used, no one seems to have gotten in any trouble for recording.

I believe the laws are mostly applicable in professional scenarios such as wiretapping, etc.  To my knowledge no one here has ever had serious legal consequences for recording.  (And a diplomatic side-step explanation that may avoid heightened conflict is "I was primarily recording myself...")  There have been a very few times court stepped in and ordered the parents not to record the minor children.  Court didn't like the kids put in the middle of the parental conflict.

[...] stbx [...]

This caught my attention. I've been referring to W as "uBPDw" or "W" ever since I first found my way here 9 years ago. Now "stbx" is starting to feel more appropriate. Funny how much meaning a label can convey.

Almost exclusively here I have referred to my ex as my "ex-spouse".  I just can't bring myself to use the word "wife" or even the W initial.  That's my comfort zone.  She stopped being my "wife" long before the marriage imploded.

[Turkish]

We had a member here who took FD's advice. He'd record himself.  He'd turn around to catch his stbxw when she came to his home, violating the RO. Hopefully it won't come to that for you. This was here in Cali (yes, I call it Cali).

As for serving, you can serve by mail here, to avoid the confrontational event of being served in person. Living with her, I was able to discuss all of this with my ex. I let her do her thing with her new beau, and I did mine. Her goal was moving on with her new life while not abandoning the kids. She also asked to live with us rent free for 4 months to save up money, so she needed that. My T advised me to pile her  by the door...

Your situation is a bit different, but being served by mail is an option in California.

[Manic Miner]

Because your D's mom has BPD traits, she has a strong focus on feeling like she is the best and "on top" and winning.

If you start out by offering "fair" or "equal", she will NOT feel like "she is winning" and will negotiate emotionally for more for her, whether she can handle it or not. "Getting more" and/or "beating you" is what she'll want in the process -- not fairness or equality, which would leave her in an uncomfortably ambiguous place of wondering if she is better or worse than you. Her perspective may be: she MUST get MORE than you.

kells76

This is so true. I have been ruminating for months and years why my W almost fights with me over D, trying to be 'better' parent than me, thinking of herself as superior since she's a mother. Not accepting anything less than a sole custody for D. But the law is different in Europe, other parent still shares and decides over all major things for a child, from medical, schools, religion to changing residence. You can never be excluded here as a parent exept if you willingly give up parenting altogether.

Can you please explain what is the logic behind this? Why BPDs tend to fight to be better and don't feel good when we are equal? I somehow always thought that was an NPD trait.

[livednlearned]

Hi zaqsert, old timer  

Woo, a 4-week silent treatment toward a child is chilling. Patricia Evans refers to silent treatment as the worst form of verbal abuse because it erases you. My heart breaks thinking about the effect of that on D11, not to mention how you must feel too. My son had a hard time being around n/BPDx's silent treatments toward me because he felt it was somehow his job to be the go-between and try to, I don't know, translate. He was never the target of a silent treatment and I cannot imagine the pain of witnessing that.

Then I worried about how D may also be affected by divorce.

This will probably unroll in stages. How she feels at 11 will change when she's a teen, then when she's older, etc. It might be something she works through her whole life, although the actual divorce may also pale in comparison to how she works through stuff with her mom.

I told my son it was my job to keep him safe, and I could not do that by staying married to his dad.

There are some good articles out there about what to say, not just when you announce the divorce but later when there is a physical adjustment -- apparently most of us don't address the stuff that kids really care about, the stuff that is developmentally appropriate to where they're at socially and psychologically.

I wish I had been better at asking, "Do you have any questions for me right now?

I also wish I had been a better listener and not been so focused on fixing things so quickly.

All the lawyers I've consulted with said anything other than 50/50 custody is unusual. The one I'm planning to work with mentioned that it may be possible to get tie-breaker decision-making for legal custody. I'll work on figuring out, with my lawyer, how far I can push on custody, both legal and physical.

Good idea. Maybe the next questions are, What's the worst that could happen if I ask for more than 50/50? If I don't ask for 50/50, what happens next if it becomes clear that this isn't tenable? If something substantive must occur for you to be able to go back to court, ask what that is, and what kind of documentation would be needed.

I think one of the drawbacks about doing 50/50 is that it signals to the judge (if you end up there) that you thought 50/50 was ok for D11. If you thought it was ok then, then what changed? If it turns out it's behaviors that have gone on for a long time, why are you recognizing this now -- the judge may think: Maybe you're not such a good parent and the two of you are equally lame, so 50/50 sticks.

I personally think that legal custody and decision-making is more critical than physical, especially if you have a co-parent with a history of negligence, since negligent parents may be more likely to gift their time away.

Shared legal, however, is a way to stay negatively engaged with you and the cost of that is the kids. 

If your L says that fathers don't get more than 50/50, you could maybe ask for data. Is there data that show how many fathers asked for more where you live? And if so, what percentages of those cases were likely to get what they asked for. Apparently, in some states, moms get more custody, but more moms are likely to ask for custody. In cases where dads asked for more custody, they were equally as likely to succeed as moms. I say this because lawyers can and do perpetuate biases without even realizing it.

If your L says, "Look -- this judge is xyz. We may end up in front of this judge if mediation fails and we need to play our cards right," then consider whether to take his or her advice. It might be good! "How well do you know this judge," or "What is this judge like," or "Have you had a case like mine before, and how did things go in court" might be good questions to ask if you haven't already. Also, "is trial law something you're comfortable doing -- would you consider it a strength?"

I finally saw my T again this week. She asked me how I think W may respond. I find it kind of amazing that I have no idea. Depending on her mood and the situation, she could be absolutely surprised or may have seen it coming, and she may fight tooth and nail for custody or she may say that D wants nothing to do with her and so I should take D.

And throughout the whole ordeal, she may fluctuate in how she responds.

The part of the legal system that really does aggravate things is the language. So many times I felt ok about what was agreed, but then I'd get a fat envelope filled with papers that made my heart race. I imagine the same thing happens for pwBPD. It can trigger strong emotions to see things in legal print. That adds a wildcard effect to the way your stbx may respond over time.

I'm so glad you have family members in your corner. Having support can go such a long way to helping you make it through this ordeal, too. 

[zaqsert]

Thanks, all!

ForeverDad, I'll take the recording advice.

Turkish, thanks for the Cali info.

alterK, kells76, and livednlearned, excellent suggestions, thank you. I'll want to come back to this thread and jot down some notes to myself, so I have them to refer to when I get to these parts of the process with my L.

livednlearned, thanks for the "old timer" greeting.   It's really nice to "see" you again here. I've been mostly away from here over the years. Every so often coming back, and nice to see some of the old timers and newer folks too.

Ironically, several years ago I thought about coming back here to post on the Success Stories thread on the Staying board. But in the end, that didn't last. When I came back here late last year I remembered, I think it was ForeverDad, who had said that some (many?) staying are really only staying "for now".

Manic Miner, I'm not sure I can explain it. In my experience pwBPD often can't stand criticism, and they're very sensitive to things that could come across as critical. Perhaps putting themselves into a place where they are better and others are not, maybe that feels somewhat safer. My uBPDstbx is quick to put others down. Sometimes it seems almost like a self-preservation reaction.

[zaqsert]

Patricia Evans refers to silent treatment as the worst form of verbal abuse because it erases you.

D was talking about the situation recently. Referring to the silent treatment, she said that sometimes the worst kind of yelling and screaming is when the other person says nothing at all.

[PeteWitsend]

D was talking about the situation recently. Referring to the silent treatment, she said that sometimes the worst kind of yelling and screaming is when the other person says nothing at all.

silent treatment is only effective if the other person cares.

if they're checked out or "over it" it backfires.

later in my marriage, I didn't care anymore and had resolved myself that divorce was the only possible outcome.  When we'd have a fight, after the initial flare up we'd settle into a week or so of ST.  I'd just go read, go to the gym, play video games, or do whatever I wanted... and since she wasn't talking to me, she wouldn't be there to complain or pick a fight over what I was doing.  

we could go a week like that before she'd understand she wasn't getting the engagement and attention she expected, and then "make up" i.e. apologize for whatever she did as long as I also apologized for some perceived slight that "caused"  her to getangry with me.  I always had to be the bad guy who started it, before she'd concede that, yes, maybe she overreacted a little (by unhinged ranting, screaming, slamming doors, throwing things, etc. ...)

this was how we spent most of the last couple years of marriage

[livednlearned]

Ironically, several years ago I thought about coming back here to post on the Success Stories thread on the Staying board.

Most of us wish we could've kept our families together, but I hope you don't feel that the opposite of success (staying together) is failure (getting a divorce).

Divorce was a path to success for my situation. I feel successfully divorced  

I admire you for the efforts you made to make the best of what probably felt at times like a seemingly impossible situation. You didn't quit when the going got tough, you put in time and effort to see if skills shared here might make things better.

I remember when my parenting coordinator went before the judge so she could be removed from our case. She was our state's primary expert and taught parenting coordination to other psychologists. Court professionals held her in high regard. She testified to the judge that she saw no signs that her services would improve outcomes in our case and asked to be removed.

It made me realize there are real limits.

Having the PC withdraw from the case validated for me how challenging my ex was.

I sometimes wonder if our lives would be different had I known sooner about BPD and this site. But I doubt it.

There is something to be said for giving it your all so you can be free from second-guessing.

There is also something to be said for standing up to a bully and saying that's enough.

 

[ForeverDad]

I never waved a recorder in my spouse's face.  (This was before today's cell phones.)  I knew that would trigger an incident.  I recorded but kept it low key, out of the way.  One time I had my recorder in my pants pocket.  Oh my, every time I walked, there was this loud "swish swish" sound.

Yes, I've often commented that staying does not have to be forever, it can be "staying for now" while you get educated with skills and strategies, find a better time to make a final decision, etc.

[zaqsert]

silent treatment is only effective if the other person cares.

Good point. I think that's part of why my stbx targets me less than she used to.

Sadly though, it may also be a part of why she has cranked up her targeting of our D. She can't get enough of a response from me, so she goes after D.

Most of us wish we could've kept our families together, but I hope you don't feel that the opposite of success (staying together) is failure (getting a divorce).

Divorce was a path to success for my situation. I feel successfully divorced   

Thanks for the distinction. I feel I gave it all I could, and now I've made a choice to change things for the better. The journey to get there, I'm not so sure. But the destination will be far better for me and for D. So fortunately, I don't feel that getting a divorce is a failure. An implosion, maybe. But not a failure.

It took me about a year of feeling stuck and not exactly moving forward. Finally, more recently, I suppose I got comfortable enough with my choice to move forward.

I remember when my parenting coordinator went before the judge so she could be removed from our case. She was our state's primary expert and taught parenting coordination to other psychologists. Court professionals held her in high regard. She testified to the judge that she saw no signs that her services would improve outcomes in our case and asked to be removed.

It made me realize there are real limits.

Having the PC withdraw from the case validated for me how challenging my ex was.

Wow.

Just recently, after a couple of very challenging family therapy sessions, D asked for a session alone with T. I took her and waited outside. When they came out, T told me she will not ask for more sessions with D and her mom together because D does not feel it's a safe space (I can understand why). T said she'd think about how to proceed and get back to us. I asked her about continuing individual therapy with D. T asked D if D would like someone to meet and talk with individually. D said yes. T gave it a moment of thought and then told me she'll have to get back to me on that too.

T did get back to us, and sbtx and I now have a follow-up session booked with T. I'm really not sure where that will go.

I sometimes wonder if our lives would be different had I known sooner about BPD and this site. But I doubt it.

I've wondered the same at times. In my case, I learned about it when D11 was 2, and it still took me 9 years to really start getting out.

The first big blow-up or two were before we had D. Maybe if I had learned about it then, I might have gotten out sooner or chosen not to have kids? But back then I was so much more of a peacekeeper and fixer. I might have stuck with it, thinking I could improve things. And despite everything, now that we have D, I wouldn't trade her for the world.

There is something to be said for giving it your all so you can be free from second-guessing.

There is also something to be said for standing up to a bully and saying that's enough.

to both.

The big update now from my end is that I've signed the agreement with the lawyer and paid the retainer. Next up, I don't know yet. My lawyer and I will set up a time to talk next steps.

Such a combination of feelings. Good, optimistic, nervous, worried... And meanwhile distracted and not as productive at work as I feel I should be. Which worries me, but then I try to remind myself that I just need to keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep moving. At a minimum, for now, I just need to keep my job. It's probably ok to temporarily let go of my desire to do great professionally, for now.

[zaqsert]

I never waved a recorder in my spouse's face.  (This was before today's cell phones.)  I knew that would trigger an incident.  I recorded but kept it low key, out of the way.  One time I had my recorder in my pants pocket.  Oh my, every time I walked, there was this loud "swish swish" sound.

Haha. Just a few years ago, I bought a micro cassette recorder on eBay to figure out what in the world was on an old micro cassette I had found from decades ago. It turned out to be nothing particularly interesting. But I can only imagine the loud "swish swish" sound.

[ForeverDad]

When they came out, T told me she will not ask for more sessions with D and her mom together because D does not feel it's a safe space (I can understand why). T said she'd think about how to proceed and get back to us. I asked her about continuing individual therapy with D. T asked D if D would like someone to meet and talk with individually. D said yes. T gave it a moment of thought and then told me she'll have to get back to me on that too.

T did get back to us, and sbtx and I now have a follow-up session booked with T. I'm really not sure where that will go.

As a general policy, counselors will decline to provide individual sessions to both parents plus the children.  I suspect your T will suggest a few names of other counselors for your daughter.

This does not mean your daughter can't invite you to be kept informed of her sessions or even sit in when she wishes.

You need to be the parent to take the lead in selecting D's counselor if a new counselor is recommended for D.  Since D has already been having sessions, your stbEx has no basis to block D's future counseling.  Besides, my lawyer told me "Courts love counseling."

[zaqsert]

You need to be the parent to take the lead in selecting D's counselor if a new counselor is recommended for D.  Since D has already been having sessions, your stbEx has no basis to block D's future counseling.  Besides, my lawyer told me "Courts love counseling."

Will do. Thanks, ForeverDad.

I had gone through about 30 therapists until I found the one we're working with. She was available and seemed decent. There were a few others on my short list who were not available to take on new patients late last year. If our T suggests others, I'll take a look at them and probably also reach back out to some who were not taking new patients last year.

[Go3737]

I had a voice recorder in my pants pocket in my closet. Little did i think she'd throw all my cloths away after her drunken rage and I left for the night.
The recorder went with the cloths.

[zaqsert]

An update on the process...

Retainer paid. Had my first meeting with my lawyer today. It felt helpful.

Now I'm waiting for just a couple of things – daughter starting school and stbx going on an interview. It that goes well, she might actually take on a job for the first time in years. I think doing something productive may help her. My lawyer pointed out that if she has some income, that can help me too in terms of less spousal support initially.

So it may just be a matter of weeks until I tell my stbx and start the formal divorce process.

My lawyer recommended telling her in a session with just the two of us and our family therapist. Of course, letting the therapist know ahead of time what I'm planning so she can prepare.

Meanwhile, stbx and I had a session with the family therapist, without D11. Stbx had said she wanted to work on improving her relationship with D. It's been less than a week since that session, and stbx's actions tell a very different story. She doesn't seem to be trying much at all. Worse, she's complaining that D is not doing things – the things that stbx should be doing herself! It seems like stbx is blinded by projection. Stbx even went on a rant via text to me about all this, just 3 days after the family therapy session. I'm not surprised. I've seen it before. It's just sad.

I'm feeling better that I'm moving the process along. One step at a time.