Minimal contact versus NC

[Firsttimefather]

Hey everybody,
 So I got to thinking and started to browse a bit and decided just to ask.
  For those folks here who have had to handle custody proceedings when you kind of can’t go totally NC but need to go ‘limited contact’.. I have been following the atty and staying off of phone conversations, redirecting to email. I have once seen a post that spoke about being careful not to give up too much information as you try to be the ‘nice person’.
  How have folks balanced this issue? Any advice, stories of where it went right and where it went wrong?
 Thank you everybody.

[stepmomof2]

We've had much much better luck with text-based communications, both in terms of giving her time to cool off and because there is a legacy of information. It didn't help us in court, but just recently my partner tried to have a co-parenting/custody conversation with his ex via Zoom and endured a litany of verbal abuse. We are considering in the future going through a service that monitors co-parenting messages to help reduce co-parent abuse and keep a legal record of the conversation. Its also worth being able to take time to process and respond in the most productive manner. He still endures verbal abuse and custody threats via text, but at least he can deal with it at his own pace and we have it documented.

[SaltyDawg]

I am not there yet; however, I am hoping for the best and planning for the worst.

So, here is my plan for the worst.

1.  Document, document, document.  Anything you can get in an e-mail and in writing is much better than something spoken [unless recorded].  Be aware of wire tapping laws as these apply for recording devices [I use my cell phone, it is designed to capture audio and video] and these vary from state to state in the USA.  Fortunately my pwBPD has taunted me [even as recently as today in session with our therapist] to record her - guess what I am doing, I am recording.  Having recordings will reduce your attorney's fees as the recordings will speak for themselves.  Different countries will also have different laws.

2.  Make sure your attorney is a 'high conflict' one, and follow their directions regarding contact.  Do not make or accept any offers without consulting an attorney, that is why you are paying for the attorney for their advice on these matters.

3.  If an attorney is not present [cornered in person] use the BIFF principle.   https://www.highconflictinstitute.com/biff-responses  Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm.  Defer to the attorney whenever possible.

[Turkish]

Never volunteer information other than that which is absolutely necessary.

[Firsttimefather]

Everybody who responded, this is exactly what I was looking for. Please keep this dialogue going. The preceding video and BIFF link are both great. What life would be without this site I can’t even begin to imagine.

[Turkish]

Site convo about BIFF.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

[Manic Miner]

BiFF author said:

If he sent this email to friends, co-workers or family members (which high conflict people often do), then she would need to respond to the larger group with more information, such as the following: ...

That's great.
But what if your high-conflict spouse/ex says something bad about you and your separation to your friends, family or neighbors in person, without you knowing? It's unlikely that neighbours will reach out and ask you to hear your side. You don't even know what was said, but can guess it wasn't good or real considering the condition he or she is in.

Currently, I'm shrugging off any potential badmouthing or neighbours taking sides. I realize most don't even care and some that do, it's their choice whether they want to believe this or that or take sides. But I am curious after reading Biff method and email responds, if there's something I could do, but I'm not aware.

[ForeverDad]

What is too much information (TMI)?  Often it is anything that your ex could use against you, such as your legal strategies.  Since we can often be caught off guard, a general concept to follow is that you share appropriate child information (details of child exchanges, child is doing fine, child has a cold but I am handling it fine with ...) and very little else.

Remember, both father and mother can care for an ill child.  Mother does not zoom in claiming only she can care for the child.

On that note, mother may be likely to claim she is nursing the baby and so you can't parent the child independently, either on overnights or even briefly.  Hogwash.  Millions of working mothers have worked and still breastfed.  When the child is not with them, they can express their milk and freeze it to either share it with dad's time or when the child returns.

While you don't want to appear unfeeling, until paternity is resolved you need to present yourself in the best possible light to all legal scenarios.

[Firsttimefather]

I want thank everyone again. Your answers are helping to  keep me on track I believe. While dealing with this part of my life I contract COVID..no picnic let me tell you. It also stirred up some stuff mentally for me. Maybe it’s the wishing that my pwBPD even cared the slightest bit and how after all the good I bestowed here I am…
 As these thoughts surface I see the duality in which I was swept up in for so long. So badly I just want to pick up the phone and have some sort of rational and civil conversation. I start to second guess the atty etc. However I know I tried everything else and need to protect not only myself but potentially this little girl. However I don’t even know if she is mine and that’s maybe the hardest part yet. I don’t allow her to enter the place in my mind and heart as I don’t want to get swept up in the fantasy (if that makes sense). Perhaps control is the only reason my pwBPD is avoiding the paternity test. The clock is ticking and Monday is the deadline before we move toward motioning the court.
 I know I am doing the right thing but damn if the right thing isn’t so hard sometimes.
 I consistently remind myself that every other time I let my guard down and followed my pwBPD’s lead, put her concerns before mine, each just brought me one more step to where I am now.
 Heartbroken at times yes but also cautious, sticking to boundaries, and doing my best to see things as they are and not what I wished they could be.
 I am trying my best to sit back and let the atty take it from here. This is a difficult time of the year to be dealing with these circumstances however this time last year I was sleeping on a friend’s couch also in NC mode as I pulled myself together following a false DV police report. I wasn’t arrested and I thought I wouldn’t go back. I let my guard down, believed my pwBPD’s want to change and better our relationship. A few months later the next derailment…
  All reminders of why I must stick to the advice found here as I am sure many here also held such faith, such hope and met similar disappointments and struggles.

[SinisterComplex]

I want thank everyone again. Your answers are helping to  keep me on track I believe. While dealing with this part of my life I contract COVID..no picnic let me tell you. It also stirred up some stuff mentally for me. Maybe it’s the wishing that my pwBPD even cared the slightest bit and how after all the good I bestowed here I am…
 As these thoughts surface I see the duality in which I was swept up in for so long. So badly I just want to pick up the phone and have some sort of rational and civil conversation. I start to second guess the atty etc. However I know I tried everything else and need to protect not only myself but potentially this little girl. However I don’t even know if she is mine and that’s maybe the hardest part yet. I don’t allow her to enter the place in my mind and heart as I don’t want to get swept up in the fantasy (if that makes sense). Perhaps control is the only reason my pwBPD is avoiding the paternity test. The clock is ticking and Monday is the deadline before we move toward motioning the court.
 I know I am doing the right thing but damn if the right thing isn’t so hard sometimes.
 I consistently remind myself that every other time I let my guard down and followed my pwBPD’s lead, put her concerns before mine, each just brought me one more step to where I am now.
 Heartbroken at times yes but also cautious, sticking to boundaries, and doing my best to see things as they are and not what I wished they could be.
 I am trying my best to sit back and let the atty take it from here. This is a difficult time of the year to be dealing with these circumstances however this time last year I was sleeping on a friend’s couch also in NC mode as I pulled myself together following a false DV police report. I wasn’t arrested and I thought I wouldn’t go back. I let my guard down, believed my pwBPD’s want to change and better our relationship. A few months later the next derailment…
  All reminders of why I must stick to the advice found here as I am sure many here also held such faith, such hope and met similar disappointments and struggles.

Often times you truly just have to find out through trial and error and do things the hard way to be sure. We don't judge here. Again, we are fam. I've observed you for a while now...all I can say is that I wish and hope the best for you.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Manic Miner]

So badly I just want to pick up the phone and have some sort of rational and civil conversation.

Don't we all? Don't we all...

A simple, rational and honest phone call could end all drama, suffering and misery. But noo. It's the sickness of mind.

[Turkish]

A false accusation of DV isn't just a 

It should be a deal breaker. Full. Stop. That's the kind of thing that can ruin your life. We've seen it many times here with members who don't take it seriously.

My ex called the cops on her new husband and his brother. Brother fled and her husband, as I heard it from her, was tackled and cuffed and charged with resisting arrest. He still wanted her back. No! She's not a safe person though he wasn't a saint either, she being a 5' pretty Waif turned on the water works. Who were the cops going to believe?

Later that year when she was kicking him out, they both called the cops on each other on Christmas Eve. It was a miracle neither was arrested.

I was talking to a buddy of mine who grew up in a conflict family. We saw cops plenty with his dad and his step mom. We agreed: calling the cops isn't normal. Kids (he was a teenager and I was 19-20) seeing cops at the house isn't normal.

[Firsttimefather]

It is so true Turkish,
 I fell for all the promises offered if I came back and followed the ‘blackmail’ all the way to pregnant and she relocates.

I say ‘blackmail’ as I recognize it as a simple manifest of the emotional blackmail that existed.the trauma bond situation in which her forgiveness slowly became the only thing that could make it better. I thought the entire time ‘she wants to change, she regrets this and is sorry for that’ .I would see this repeated however the next time became more aware that she was simply telling me everything I wanted to hear. I fell for this many times.
 She had her explanation for the police call and I allowed the reality of the situation to erode to match her vision.
 That very situation was also a reminder that kept me from being impulsive, following her lead, bailing on my lease, losing my support networks and just moving into her house next door her parents.
 I do want to reinforce your response however. As I look back now I would never continue a relationship where someone would do that to someone else,period!

[Turkish]

As I look back now I would never continue a relationship where someone would do that to someone else,period!

So say we all, but we didn't know what we didn't know.

[ForeverDad]

So say we all, but we didn't know what we didn't know.

How did I miss the mention of the false DV report?  Good for Turkish to catch it.  He's right, so many of us here have lived through DV and child abuse allegations.  They're worse than no fun, they're downright scary.  We too were clueless, well, until we got educated about what we're dealing with.  That's also one of the reasons so many of us had no choice but to end our disordered relationships.  We're still involved parents, that doesn't end, but distance apart is often the only option when things go that bad.

[Firsttimefather]

“Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.” -Albert Einstein

[Turkish]

In my mid 30s when I did at-risk youth mentoring, I first heard the phrase, "you don't know what you don't know." Youth and mentors alike screwed our heads up like the proverbial dog trying to understand what that meant. I met my ex my second year mentoring, but that's another story...

The point was to learn something new and to step outside of our comfort zones. To realize that what we knew an applied to our lives (what was comfortable) wasn't working. Additionally, I'll add that because we don't know what we don't know,  give ourselves some grace. Then move forward.

[ForeverDad]

Every once in a while I read a book that echoes what I've learned here.  It finally dawned on me that I could share some clips here.  The first emphasizes we do better if we stay ahead of the claims or at least anticipate alternate "what if" approaches.

"It is easy to think of the right thing to do or say after the event."

"They say that a smart person learns from her mistakes, but a truly smart person learns from other people's mistakes."

"What I know is how to choose my battles."

"Children very readily accept almost any kind of life as normal."