Paranoia and delusions…

[thankful person]

As I have shared recently, my wife has been extremely dysregulated in a long term split since she birthed our third child a few weeks ago. I feel like I know this situation well… it has been upsetting but then a part of me is ok as I’m so used to it.

Borderline means on the borderline between milder mental illnesses like depression and anxiety, and more severe disorders like schizophrenia and psychosis. I feel like my eyes are wide open now. I can see how delusional my wife is, for example when she tells me I just said something and I didn’t. For example I told her our little girl had been attempting to copy saying some words off flash cards. And she “heard” me say that she’s a bad mother and should be encouraging our child to speak. She also is convinced the health visitor, nursery staff and neighbours are all against her.

It does remind me of a time when I performed on my electric keyboard for some care home residents with dementia. Afterwards, one of them was convinced I had her handbag hidden in my keyboard bag. I showed her that I didn’t. And no sooner had I zipped it up, she accused me again.

Not Wendy recently likened it to seeing the world through blue glasses. Well my wife is seeing most things through black glasses right now. I’m now able to feel just as sad for her as I did for that care home resident.

I just hope it won’t destroy our marriage. Despite my newfound understanding, times are very hard.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Dealing with the paranoia sounds hugely difficult. It's one thing when it's someone you don't have a connection with (the resident with dementia). It's another when it's your spouse and the paranoia can involve your children.

I recently watched a video online of an empathetic interviewer having a conversation with a young woman with schizophrenia. She described how she did not actually want others to ask her what her hallucinations looked like, because then that brought a kind of reality to them that made it even more difficult for her to distinguish between what was real and what was not. For example, while she did talk a little about how many of her hallucinations involved spiders, she did not, during the video interview, say whether or not she was hallucinating at that moment. There was a followup video where she said that Yes, she had been hallucinating during the first interview. She was self aware enough to know that bringing others in to the non-reality, where they would start to give it weight (asking questions like "What do the spiders look like, are they in this or that corner of the room"), wasn't healthy.

In a way, it sounds like it'd be "easier" if your W were seeing spiders or clowns or whatnot. However, her paranoia and delusions show up relationally. It also sounds like you do your best not to engage when it's clear that she is not in touch with reality -- much like the interviewer and the young woman. That does seem like the best (or "least worst") route forward, though I wonder if it is lonely.

It may be that your marriage is a "special needs" marriage where there are chapters of relative normalcy where your role can be more typical spousal role. However, there are other chapters, like now, where there is a disconnect between the role you'd like to have, as a spouse with intimacy, and instead, to stay in the marriage, you may in these chapters have to take a different role, more like a caretaker with less intimacy. Pivoting between the roles is not what anyone would want in a marriage, however it could be a way forward to make the best of things for now. Maybe accepting "right now is a season where we have less intimacy and I put on my Caretaker hat".

Again, it sounds like you've processed a lot of this already, so maybe this is more to support you and say that from my perspective, it seems like you're doing the best you can -- balancing the understanding of why she is this way right now (new baby among other reasons) with deep sadness at losing how things could've been.

[thankful person]

Hi Kells,

I am so lonely. And so grateful for all the support on here from you and the others.

Today has been a terrible day. Another recurring theme has been my wife accusing me of work being more important than her. I work to support our family. I’ma self employed piano teacher. She is jealous of my relationship with my students.

She said she was thinking of us getting back together and has put beautiful family pictures on the wall. Our 5 year anniversary is in a couple of days and she does not want to celebrate. I have ruined everything because I should have cancelled work when it started snowing as she was excited about the snow. And apparently I misplaced the baby’s ski gloves but I have no recollection of having them.

[kells76]

It hurts to feel lonely when you'd like to be together and on the same page with your spouse. Nobody wants that in their relationship. I wish for both of you that things could be better.

I remember you mentioning all the accusations of your work being more important to you than her. That's been ongoing. Would you say it's increasing these days, or more just staying the same but not going away?

Remind me, do you work fully from home with your piano students, or do you sometimes go out to teach?

I just am wondering how you can get a breather from hearing the accusations and blame. I suspect it's one thing if she had all those wacky thoughts but didn't say them, and another for you to hear them. Maybe it could be better for both of you for you to hear less (or none) of those hurtful words -- in a way, she would still get to say them (as a dysfunctional way of processing emotions), and so could "blow off steam", but you would not have to hear it, so there would be less hurt between you two. I do understand it's difficult to get away.

[thankful person]

Hi Kells,

I teach at a local school. My wife hates this because I’ve become part of a community while she feels isolated. A neighbour across the street had suggested she might pop in to see my wife this morning and she didn’t, I think this was part of the problem today as my wife had made an effort with her hair and makeup, dressing up the kids and cleaning the house (well I did most of that but she wanted it looking nice…)

I got in a bit later as I’d had a new student thrown on me and I hadn’t asked my wife’s “permission”. Usually I teach them on Thursday and Friday but I’d put them all on today as snow was forecast for Friday. Again my wife does not recognise that I did this for her, but thinks I should have cancelled. I got in and taught for 1.5 hours, 2 students in the home. My wife hates hearing me have a laugh with them and them getting better at piano. She hates being stuck in the front room as she has to stay with our dog and can’t leave our girls with the baby etc. She then lost it after the last student left as she could hear me going wow about the snow etc. I was sposed to have a final student for an online lesson. But at that point my wife was screeching so much I cancelled it last minute. In the past she had screeched at me during online lessons but never with students in the house. I have rearranged for tomorrow (sposed to be my day off). Too nervous to tell my wife yet as I only care about work etc etc.

I also lost a brand new spelling student the other day. His mum asked in advance if she could come in with him for a bit and I said no. He’s 12. When they turned up the mother was expecting to come in anyway. I explained no it distracts them and about my wife, dog, kids… The kid came in anyway and then I worked with him for half an hour and then his mother came back again so upset saying she just wanted him home. (He was fine). It was more than my marriage was worth to let her in. I said I’ve been working with children nearly 30 years, I have a dbs showing no criminal record and I have many references.

My work is important to me. Not as important than my marriage but I won’t be bullied into sabotaging it. I’m feeling very paranoid myself. The latest accusation was that I wouldn’t be able to find my wife’s pyjamas which she had this morning. She only has one apparently. I felt very gas lighted and actually looked in the washing machine wondering if she set me up. But still couldn’t find them.

[Couscous]

Hi thankful person,

It really sounds like you could use some additional support right now. I know that this may not be easy for you to pull off, but perhaps you might be willing to consider attending some Al-Anon meetings so that you could get some in-person support?

[GaGrl]

I agree that more support is in order.

Are you able to have a conversation with your wife's current support team? Doesn't she have postnatal team members coming in?

[thankful person]

And just like that…. the split is (apparently) over. On our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife asked me, “do you want to get back together with me?” So our rings are back on and we have moved on (apparently).

My wife had bought me a gift, a glass heart saying 5 years and it  said things like 60 months of hugs and however many days of happiness etc. She wrote on Facebook, “we have our ups and downs but our love and commitment remains strong…” Today would have been such a difficult day because we took the children to a Christmas event and my wife (and I) forgot her sling for the baby and the older kids cried all day because it was a bit overwhelming for them being so small. But with all my new skills of validating etc, the day went smoothly…

I love my wife but I don’t trust her and I struggle to respect her. The most ridiculous thing is that we generally get along very well these days especially looking after the children together which seems to run very smoothly. I’m glad to say the children only saw a few shouting moments during this latest 4 week split.

The most important thing is my intention to not put up with this again. I genuinely feared losing my marriage this time. And yet my wife had several weeks ago bought me this gift, the kind of gift you give someone you adore and want to be with. She had chosen this gift to make me feel loved, whilst I believed she hated me, because of the things she was saying to me.

Thank you all so much for the support and advice. I played along with this silly game because I feared losing my marriage if I didn’t. It is not my intention to take my wife so seriously if she does this again.

My wife is now starting new drama with my brother though so I’m sure I’ll be back for more advice soon.

[Couscous]

And just like that…. the split is (apparently) over. On our 5th wedding anniversary, my wife asked me, “do you want to get back together with me?”

My mother does stuff like this with her husband. She reviles him most of the time, but then something will trigger her, and she’s suddenly all “in love” with him again, and engages in over the top public displays of affection. To me it looks completely disingenuous and totally fake.

I do hope the drama with your brother will get her through Christmas so that you don’t have worry about her splitting again till the New Year. The best thing you can do is to try to refuse to get drawn into playing peacemaker (rescuer role) and avoid getting yourself triangulated into their dispute. Good luck!

[Notwendy]

And just like that…. the split is (apparently) over.

I love my wife but I don’t trust her and I struggle to respect her.

The most important thing is my intention to not put up with this again. I genuinely feared losing my marriage this time.

I played along with this silly game because I feared losing my marriage if I didn’t. It is not my intention to take my wife so seriously if she does this again.

There one thing I see here that is in your ability to manage is your fear of losing the marriage. This gives your wife the power to have a lot of control in the relationship. Whether or not she does this consciously- probably not- the response on your part - to go along with her out of fear, reinforces her behavior.

There is a difference between valuing your marriage and fearing the loss of it. You can value it but not have this fear. You may not want the marriage to end, it would be difficult and hurtful- but you don't need fear to value the marriage. What if you could believe that- if the marriage were to end, even if it would be a sad and difficult thing- you would still be OK.

You have chosen to stay in a situation that, when all is calm, you feel good, but then, there's the possibility of a storm rolling in. You need your own plan to weather the storm. You know the pattern now. She kicks you out of the bedroom. You need to know where you would sleep, have bedding, and be prepared for that. Maybe this takes buying an air mattress and keeping a set of toiletries where you can use it. You need to be able to see that what she says is more about her than you. She's not "rejecting" you, she's rejecting herself and thinks it's coming from you. You need ways to self soothe- listen to music on headphones, take walks, affirm yourself that you are OK.

Marriage is a commitment but it also comes with the risk that at some point, a spouse may decide they don't want to be in the marriage. It's difficult when that happens, we don't want that to happen, but it's your fear that hands over the control of your emotions and well being to your wife. But whose emotions are they- yours and that makes them yours to manage.

[thankful person]

Thank you not Wendy, your posts are always so insightful. I think feeling under another person’s control for so many years, it’s easy to forget the basics. Like I have reclaimed much of the power in our relationship… and now I’m realising, actually, I can choose whether or not to stay in the relationship, I don’t just have to go with my wife’s choice of the moment on this one.

However as you know we have three very small children age 3, 1.5, and 6 weeks. So I think my plan is to do what I can to keep my wife calm and be here to support her whilst they are so small. Having said that, I don’t know at what point I would chose to leave in future.

I feel we have reached a turning point. We are “together”, but my wife does seem generally irritated by me and is not seeming to want affection or love or sex. Of course she is still very hormonal, post partum and breast feeding.

So I would like to try and be prepared, for how I will react if she starts this again. When I left my ex, he begged me to stay and I did for some months. He wanted to show that his behaviour could improve and it totally did. He said to me, “wouldn’t you want the same chance?” And I said, “no. Because if you decided you didn’t want me then I’d know there was nothing I could do to be a better partner that I’m not already doing…” And that is actually how I feel now too. If my wife starts the, “you don’t care about my feelings” and accusing me of not trying, then if I express, “there’s nothing more I can do so effectively I give up…” then she will be very angry about me giving up when I could apparently save the relationship if I wanted.

We’ll see what happens. I know it seems silly to have high hopes here. It’s just that things ran so smoothly through the last year when we had many stressful situations to deal with, and it really seemed like everything was going to be ok.

I would be most upset about the children, if I was to leave. I left my ex (who I loved) for my wife, even though he was devastated, and I hated myself for years. It can’t possibly be harder than that.

[Couscous]

I would be most upset about the children, if I was to leave.

Well, you'd have to request custody. Ideally you would become the custodial parent and she would get supervised visits.

[Notwendy]

So I would like to try and be prepared, for how I will react if she starts this again. When I left my ex, he begged me to stay and I did for some months. He wanted to show that his behavior could improve and it totally did. He said to me, “wouldn’t you want the same chance?” And I said, “no. Because if you decided you didn’t want me then I’d know there was nothing I could do to be a better partner that I’m not already doing…” And that is actually how I feel now too. If my wife starts the, “you don’t care about my feelings” and accusing me of not trying, then if I express, “there’s nothing more I can do so effectively I give up…” then she will be very angry about me giving up when I could apparently save the relationship if I wanted.

I agree- this is not the time to make a decision- as long as you and the children are not in physical danger. Neither of you are in a position to focus calmly right now- and a newborn is the important focus.

When there is a newborn, so much time is devoted to feedings, changing, trying to get sleep when you can. This is normal and what the baby needs for right now. But the baby will settle into a routine and become gradually more independent- start some solid foods, go longer between nursing, sleep more at night. You have done this before and know how it goes.

I think there's something interesting about your posts about your ex. You have mentioned several times that you left him for your current wife, and that he was heartbroken. I think in a way, you may be afraid of "making a mistake" this time and prone to hold on to something for that reason?

I think, rather than see this as a mistake, make this something to examine and grow from. I wonder if there's some sense of shame for you over this that you are trying to make right? I am just guessing at this but it may be something to do some self work on, for you.

If my wife starts the, “you don’t care about my feelings” and accusing me of not trying, then if I express, “there’s nothing more I can do so effectively I give up…” then she will be very angry about me giving up when I could apparently save the relationship if I wanted.

It seems that you are looking at your wife to decide whether or not you have done enough to "save the relationship" as if it is all on you, all on you to change for her, to do for her.

Why do you feel it's all on you to make your wife feel a certain way. Actually we can't change anyone's feelings. It's possible that your wife could feel you don't care about her feelings no matter what you do to convince her otherwise.

As someone who has given less attention to trying to "fix" a disordered person who I do care about. (it's not a romantic relationship but a mother is certainly one of the most significant relationships we have) - it's not that I gave up trying to "save it" as if there was anything I could have done more, it's that she can not "see" my efforts due to her own thinking from victim perspective. I have also thought the same thing- tried to be the "good daughter" she wanted me to be, thinking maybe if I was "good enough" she'd finally be the normal loving mother I wish she could be.

Did I do everything right? Certainly not. None of us do everything right. It took me a while to see though that these statements "you don't care about me" weren't about me but about my mother, and how she sees things and that I can't change that for her no matter how much I wish I could do that.

I don't see it as "giving up" on the relationship but as understanding what I can change and what I can't change and we can't change someone else's thinking. You may not ever be "enough" for your wife but you can decide that you are "enough" for you, and understand that she's going to say these things when she feels that way.

Maybe saying these things wouldn't bother you as much if you didn't somehow feel you failed in your other relationship? But you didn't fail. Maybe it wasn't possible for you to love your ex the way he loved you, and now he's able to find someone who can.

I think when we look to someone else to tell us we are "enough" and we keep trying to achieve that and caretake them and keep trying, we are actually trying to "fix" our insecurities in our efforts to fix things for someone else.

I hope you can believe that you already are "enough" - because you are- we all are. It's nice to be able to hear that from others but sometimes they aren't able to do that for us because of their own feelings of not being enough. I think you will be able to weather these episodes with your wife better when you can believe her feelings are just that- and they don't define you.

[thankful person]

Well, you'd have to request custody. Ideally you would become the custodial parent and she would get supervised visits.

I can’t ever imagine that I would take “her” children from her. Her behaviour around them has been so much improved since I joined bpd forum. My wife is their biological mother and though they are legally mine too, I don’t imagine I would have any hope of custody.

Not Wendy, thank you, you have given me lots to think about as always. The break up with my ex is key. In a nutshell… we were together for 14 years, never married and he said he didn’t want children and always refused to discuss it. We emigrated together and bought a house and everyone thought we were happy. Well he was but I wasn’t because I’d always wanted children.

By the time I met my wife online, I was ostensibly just looking for a friend, but I was actively seeking out suicidal teenagers online and I believe it was the result of being “denied” my own children for so many years. I just wanted to feel needed. By the time I left my man to be with a woman, I had fully accepted that I would never have children, although my wife wanted them, I didn’t see it ever happening.

So I have always “known” it was the wrong thing, to leave him. I was leaving a “happy” “stable” long-term relationship for a young girl (15 years younger than me) on the other side of the world (bizarrely and randomly from my home town)… I knew she was severely mentally ill but I wanted to help her.  And it turned out my ex did want kids but for some reason only came to terms with this shortly before I left and hadn’t managed to discuss it with me yet.

But in knowing how devastated my ex was, and that he did want kids, I didn’t want to leave him. But my wanting to be with my wife, along with the amount of control she already had over me was what “forced” my decision in the end. It was more about him deserving to be free of me when I knew I would always be obsessed with my wife, if I didn’t go to her.

I did see a therapist at that time who just said, “what’s striking about this situation is that you know exactly what you want…” and I said, “I want her”. And she said, “why would you deny yourself that?” I did not tell her my wife had diagnosed bpd. But I suspect, had she dug a little deeper she would have figured it out. My mum and brother thought I was crazy and that the therapist was just telling me what I wanted to hear.

Since I now do have these wonderful children, although they were ivf conceived I generally consider that they would not exist if I wasn’t with my wife (though I feel that’s partly a more philosophical discussion not for on here). Well physically they could exist, but they wouldn’t be mine. So all the pain and devastation has been worth it and believe it or not, I am happier now than I have ever been.

I’m still hopeful that we can go back to how things were for the past year before the baby arrived. I’m so frustrated because it seems a distant memory but yet I was on here every week telling people of all the success I’d had using the tools I’d learnt on here and advice from you all, trying to inspire others that things could improve for them too.

I will definitely take on board what you have said, it is so frustrating knowing that my wife’s feelings are more about her than me but there is no way to explain that to a pwbpd. I know I’m not responsible for her, but I would hate her to be with a new person who doesn’t have a clue how to handle her. I feel I would be quietly pointing them towards bpd family the first chance I had.

[Couscous]

That’s great that her behavior toward the children has improved. This may change as they get older, and especially if the children favor you, so this is something to stay on guard about. Additionally, BPD mothers are usually either extremely authoritarian or go to the opposite extreme and are neglectful, and usually are not a “good enough” mother, unfortunately.  

My wife is their biological mother and though they are legally mine too, I don’t imagine I would have any hope of custody.

You would need to seek legal advice on this, but it does sounds like you hold “parental responsibility”. And since they might be forming a more secure attachment bond with you than they are with her, since you are the emotionally safe parent, the court may well find that it would be in the best welfare interests of the children to live with you, if it ever comes to that. 

What if we separate?

The courts have recognised that non-birth lesbian co-parents have an important ongoing role in their child’s life following relationship breakdown. Your rights will depend on your legal relationship to your partner and child. If you and your partner share PR for your child you can both apply for child arrangement orders to determine who the child lives with and how much contact the child should have with the other parent or if there should be shared care.

https://rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/lesbian-parenting-and-the-law/#What%20if%20we%20separate?

[zondolit]

thankful person,

I'm sorry for all you are going through. You are the children's mother every bit as much as your wife is. And if it would come to custody, for the children's sake, I hope you get a whole lot of it!

[Notwendy]

thankful person, I think your story with your ex may have some insights for you. I'd be just guessing but it may help you to look at it at some point.

You were seeing a therapist at the time, and yet, this is something you are fearful of doing so as not to rock the boat in your current situation- but if you feel it is something you want, maybe it's something you can work towards doing again.

You had a major difference with your ex which was wanting children and he didn't. This is a situation that can make couples incompatible. Even if the rest of it was good, this is a major dilemma for a couple as it's very difficult to compromise on.  Maybe he did change his mind but there was a long time where he didn't, and you said you went online looking to help young people to fill the void of not having children.

I think our culture places a lot of emphasis on chemistry and while it's important that people feel attraction to each other, we also need to consider compatible values and goals and children is a major one, for some others might be religion, career, where to live, etc. The other person doesn't have to be terrible for two people to break up, they may be incompatible.

I have seen this happen- people who had heterosexual relationships, and then, later, fell in love with someone of the same sex. I think this is a difficult situation for both, because one person can never be desired like they want to be and for the other, something is missing for them, and, even if they care about each other,  staying together would be an unhappy situation and also breaking up with someone who you do care about is hard too. Maybe this happened to you.

There is also something about putting value on - "I left this good relationship for my wife" as if there might be a resentment on your part and also an ego boost for your wife "I am so desirable that she did this for me" as if the ability to get someone to leave someone else for you makes you the "better" one? I may be just guessing at this one. I have seen it in other people- and my mother- in different ways but it's like if someone has to put themselves out for them in various ways, it makes them feel special.

So maybe I am guessing here, but I think there's a bit of feeling you did the wrong thing by leaving your ex, and I don't know why. If you could untangle that maybe it would help. Relationships are complicated - most are not all good or all bad, so leaving one would have mixed emotions. But also consider you didn't do anything wrong by realizing there were incompatibilities that would not have worked out.

[Couscous]

So I have always “known” it was the wrong thing, to leave him. I was leaving a “happy” “stable” long-term relationship for a young girl (15 years younger than me) on the other side of the world (bizarrely and randomly from my home town)… I knew she was severely mentally ill but I wanted to help her.

thankful person, it sounds like you are carrying a lot of guilt about your decision, but you had very good reasons for doing what you did, and you deserve to give yourself a whole lot of compassion. This “need to be needed” is massive issue for so many of us on this forum, so you are in good company here.

I wonder if you may have stayed with your ex for as long as you did because you would have felt too guilty leave, and the longer you were together the harder it became, so it took an an extremely powerful emotion, obsession, for you to overcome the guilt. If you had felt free to disappoint your ex from the get go, I wonder if you might have ended the relationship immediately upon learning he didn’t want kids. That is usually a deal breaker for most couples, and there is truly no shame in that at all.

I recently discovered a book that I believe will be extremely helpful for you in understanding the driving forces behind your romantic relationship decisions, as well as showing you a path to healing, called Leaving the Enchanted Forest.

https://www.stephaniecovington.com/site/assets/files/1671/lef_toc.pdf

[thankful person]

Zondolit, thank you for your kind words. The support on here really helps me through some difficult times.

Couscous, I would have to think very carefully about whether a custody battle is in mine and the children’s best interest. I think my wife would turn permanently angry with me which could seriously affect the children. She is neither authoritarian nor neglectful. Most of the time, despite some (normal) issues with impatience, she is a good mother and we parent well together. The two main problems are the children being exposed to her rages (Not as bad or as often as they used to be and not actually directed at them but rather because she can’t get comfortable or something goes wrong when she’s cooking etc. Secondly more concerning but also more rare is her jealousy over my relationship with the children. The older one is particularly close to me and I think she does recognise that I am more stable and she can trust me. They get so excited when I get in from work which my wife is jealous about. And recently she got very angry when D3 requested I read her bedtime story instead of wife. That was an isolated incident but I don’t want my children to feel they can’t express a preference. On that occasion my wife swore and stormed off making her feelings quite clear.

Not Wendy, you are right about my ex. I have only come to terms with forgiving myself since joining bpd family. I hated myself for seven years as I felt I could never forgive myself and didn’t deserve to be happy. Yes my wife did feel a lot of power from breaking up our relationship. She was controlling from the start, threatening suicide or self harm if I didn’t text back soon enough etc. it was extremely disturbing. But then she was more needy than all the other needy people. And for some reason that was what I craved. If I had had the children I yearned for back them I don’t think I would have gotten to such a dark place. The therapist only saw me a couple of times to help me deal with being in love with two people. To this day I wonder if a different therapist would have handled me differently. I knew what I was getting myself into. How did she not know?

[Notwendy]

We can't know how the "if only's " might have worked out. You felt an attraction for your wife that was more than you felt for your ex. Your ex could not ever have been that for you and if you stayed with him in order to spare his feelings, maybe he'd also feel something was missing as well and been unhappy.

Perhaps had there been children, it would have been enough to fulfil you but something was missing, maybe more than one thing. On the other hand, maybe you thought that what was missing was children but it wasn't- it was who you are attracted to and maybe having children would still have still left a void. And where would that have left your partner? Perhaps he is not able to find someone who is more compatible with him now.

I hope you can forgive yourself and not hate yourself. I know it would be hard if it happened- but if I was with someone who was more attracted to a man than to me, I would not be happy knowing he wanted something I could not ever provide for him. Although it was hurtful to your ex, it may have been more hurtful to stay with him.

As to the disorder in the relationship, it may be that the therapist thought your main concern was your choice between two people since that was the question at the time.

All the factors that go into being attracted to someone with a disorder are very complicated, and I think would take a longer time to work on.

[Couscous]

All the factors that go into being attracted to someone with a disorder are very complicated, and I think would take a longer time to work on.

NW, I would say that it's actually quite simple: We are recreating a relationship we had with a needy parent, but working on this stuff is very, very hard, and very few people are willing to do it. I have read here on the forums that "all roads lead to the PSI board". But I think progress can be accelerated once we have "cut the emotional umbilical cord" with our parents, and have genuinely let go of our unhealthy attachment to them.

I have heard it said that even though a healthy person can accidently get into a relationship with a pwBPD or NPD, it's only people who come from dysfunctional families who marry them. Unless we have done the exceedingly painful work of separating from our parents/families of origin, and have achieved a degree of emotional independence and maturity, sooner or later we will be drawn into a relationship with someone who will allow us to recreate those dysfunctional relationships  -- and this is something very, very painful to have to do and may feel even more painful than leaving an addictive relationship, as all relationships with a pwBPD. This is because you have to be willing to abstain from romantic relationships for a period of time in order to truly be able to heal.

And to add insult to injury, there do not appear to be many therapists out there who have done family of origin work themselves, and many if not most therapists became therapists because of their own "need to be needed", and as such, they are of little use to us. They cannot take us further down the road than they themselves have not travelled. I think therapists in the addiction field and as well as those trained in systems theory, or Internal Family Systems are possibly the only ones who truly get the issues we face and can help us. I also think attending a 5 day workshops such as this one offered at Rio Retreat Center would also be extremely beneficial, and is something I am personally considering.
https://rioretreatcenter.com/workshops/relationships/love-addiction-love-avoidance/

[Couscous]

Couscous, I would have to think very carefully about whether a custody battle is in mine and the children’s best interest. I think my wife would turn permanently angry with me which could seriously affect the children.

I have to say that this conversation is helping to give me some insight into why my father chose not to seek custody of us: In short, I suspect that it was because of his guilt for having left her. He claims he did it to "keep the peace", and while that may be partly true, I think guilt was an even bigger factor. In fact, he still feels guilty about it decades later. My guess is that this is part of his life script: to make bad decisions so that he can feel guilty afterwards. And now he's got even more to feel guilty about, since his lack getting custody of us has had knock on effects that can be directly traced back to this ill-fated decision.

I do hope you will seek out a family therapist who will be in a better position to determine whether or not your wife's current behavior is problematic. Raging in front of the kids, and storming out whilst swearing is rather concerning behavior to me, but I am no expert in parenting. 

[thankful person]

Not Wendy, I have made much more peace with the situation since the children were born. Before that I was constantly questioning whether I had done the wrong thing (particularly because it felt as though I had left a kind person to be with a cruel person). An example was that I experienced my first piano student passing with distinction shortly after I met my wife. She was like, “it’s nothing to celebrate. He did it, not you…” And I felt greatly saddened, not just that my partner didn’t want to acknowledge what I felt was an achievement… but also I knew that my ex would have been so happy to celebrate this with me. And I also knew how sad he would be to know how she was treating me. But since the children were born… these are my children and I absolutely adore them and there’s no way in the world that I was not supposed to have them. And I feel that is why it all happened how it did.

Couscous, thank you for sharing. It’s so hard to look at your own family from the inside isn’t it. My father was the disordered one, though my mother is quite unemotional (my wife’s mother is similar in some ways). With my Dad being so immature and needy, my mother is definitely a caretaker of sorts which was what I observed and my brother’s wife is also the demanding one in their relationship. My Dad had a difficult childhood and I believe his mother was bpd (many suicide attempts) and father npd. They were both alcoholics and I wasn’t close to either of them.

I understand your concern over my children and their mental health. I would genuinely feel I had failed as a mother, were they to tell me as adults that I should have separated with their mother or sought custody of them. It has been a whirlwind of a journey since I joined bpd family in Feb 2021. Within a few months, I had managed to turn things around. I was feeling confident to assert myself, make choices, look after myself. I was amazed how my wife responded to the changes I made. She became more sane, calm, and reasonable. Most of the year before baby 3 arrived, things were so calm and peaceful and wonderful. My whole story is on here.. but I remember my posts. She flipped out in December 2021 on the day I went to look round this new house without her. She flipped out on Christmas Eve because I took too long being one of the kids upstairs as her test went missing. She snatched the child from me and swore at me. After that…. No major incidents. Until now. The flipping out over the bedtime story was major and the kind of thing that shocks me and I just think people like that shouldn’t be parents if they can’t put the child’s needs first. But what I’m trying to say is, I hope we can get back to how things were before, once baby is a bit older. I have a very good memory of what went down because I was on here documenting it all. And I haven’t checked but I think after the Christmas Eve incident, all I spoke of was how positive I was feeling about everything and I went on about it on here all year. I do feel pretty stupid tbh. It seemed too good to be true and it was. But if my wife’s behaviour doesn’t improve then I will certainly be on here and seeking further advice from legal experts and psychologists.

[Notwendy]

It's been said "we marry our unfinished business" from our childhood and I also know I brought low self esteem and co-dependent behaviors into mine. We can actually work on our own "unfinished business" in our out of a relationship. I think you are doing some of that already, reclaiming so much of yourself that you felt you had to give up.

There's no telling exactly why you went searching for something to fill an emotional need while you were with your ex. I do think that we can be driven to "fix" others, to give them the love and support we wish we had, with some idea that if we do this, they will reciprocate and give us what we need or what we feel was missing for us. But it doesn't work that way if the person can't reciprocate.

You are where you are because there's some growth potential there for you. Otherwise, you would not have chosen it. I agree that it can also be the children who confirm this feeling- that everything is exactly the way it is supposed to be. But you still have choices along the way and if at some point, your marriage is unmanageable and causing you emotional harm- you can consider what steps to take next.