Forward motion…

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

So she finally retained an attorney and I received some documents. My attorney and I have a meeting in a few days to discuss everything however some things stand out:
 1.there is still no admission to me being the likely father and of course She is consenting to the test though she has little choice.
 2.there is mention twice that there is no orders of protection.(is this because she is claiming something about me I.e-abusive? Or is this standard.
3. She is requesting that I only have supervised visits if I am proven to be the father.

I have reward reviews of her attorney and I feel my counsel looks much stronger/better. To me it reads: she doesn’t know who the father is, she wants to know what is my reason for inquiring as to the paternity and that she is seeding that there is some legitimate reason to block my access and only have supervised visits.
 Any thoughts?

[Firsttimefather]

So she finally retained an attorney and I received some documents. My attorney and I have a meeting in a few days to discuss everything however some things stand out:
 1.there is still no admission to me being the likely father and of course She is consenting to the test though she has little choice.
 2.there is mention twice that there is no orders of protection.(is this because she is claiming something about me I.e-abusive? Or is this standard.
3. She is requesting that I only have supervised visits if I am proven to be the father.

I have reward reviews of her attorney and I feel my counsel looks much stronger/better. To me it reads: she doesn’t know who the father is, she wants to know what is my reason for inquiring as to the paternity and that she is seeding that there is some legitimate reason to block my access and only have supervised visits.
 Any thoughts?

[BigOof]

It sounds like she's putting up a lot of walls to prevent your access. This behavior is likely to continue irrespective of a positive result. In her eyes, a positive result means nothing. It is still her baby, the baby should meet her needs, and you're the personification of all of her abusers.

Start educating yourself on parental alienation. Start with "Don't Alienate the Kids" by Bill Eddy. Her actions exactly fit his description well: Each little action is a little brick in the alienation wall she is trying to build between you and your child.

Godspeed.

[Firsttimefather]

It seems funny to me at this point she is asking for supervised visits should I be the father. It seems like she still is admitting she doesn’t know who the father is at this point. I have a friend who used to deal with scheduling ’supervised visits’ and she said that first off she sees an admission of ‘I don’t know who the father is’  and that my situation does not sara any supervised visits etc., but that my ex is still kinda acting as if she who is who initiated this process. This friend also said that my ex’s lawyer is probably shaking his head as he types her requests.
 Now what are some things that one would need to fear in my end? I mean she is the respondent/defendant so really do I need to brace myself for any accusations on her behalf? I mean I am always prepared but like the false police report say: I mean she can tell her lawyer, ‘I had to call the police etc..’ but the report says no ‘violence’ was witnessed and that mental health of my ex was mentioned and no arrest so….
 Again everyone’s feedback is always so helpful and thank you for your response. I will look into the book!

[Outdorenthusiast]

Could be another perspective here… The massive initial aggressive asks could also be standard opening salvo of a lawyer negotiating starting from the far right, whereas your lawyer could start from the far left and demand full custody if the paternity test is positive due to her mental faculties etc….  (Sorry - I am a professional negotiator so I look at things from a unique point of view.)

Good luck - this sounds challenging.  You aren’t alone.

[BigOof]

It seems funny to me at this point she is asking for supervised visits should I be the father.

No, it is a hurdle she is making you jump to try and alienate you from your child. It is very rational from her perspective. Also works as a great way to delay things.

If you start spending time with the child, wear a body camera. Why? She'll try and have you charged with child abuse. Body cameras are much cheaper and more expedient than lawyers. My pwBPD tried to do all things your ex is doing, but much more aggressively.

It isn't illegal to suffer from mental illness - so don't focus on it. It gets you nowhere but bills from your lawyers charging you for their time listening to unactionable information.

Re the meeting with your lawyer, make a negotiation table consisting of things you value, high, medium, and low, versus what you would trade for them. The goal is to trade low-value items for high-value items. Example below:

Low-value	Medium-value	High-value
Medical	Therapy for child	Quality time w/ child
Parental coordinator	Anti-alienation	Preventing kidnapping

[Firsttimefather]

That makes sense to me the ‘hurdle’. I was finding it odd as basically all we asked for from my end was : a paternity test.
 That’s what made me kinda ‘shocked’ so to speak.

[SaltyDawg]

That makes sense to me the ‘hurdle’. I was finding it odd as basically all we asked for from my end was : a paternity test.
 That’s what made me kinda ‘shocked’ so to speak.

Facetiously speaking "Welcome to the World of High Conflict Legal Drama". 

When is the paternity test scheduled, or considered overdue?

Make a list of questions for your attorney, as they bill by the 6 minute increment, so you can get in and out rather fast.

Do get yourself a body cam, so you can document her actions when in her presence if it is yours.

Also, you may want to link your previous thread to this one, so people who were following it know to look here.

If it isn't yours, consider yourself lucky, and move on.  However, do get some individual therapy to deal with your emotions.

Good luck, and take care.

[Firsttimefather]

Thank you SD. How do I link them?

[kells76]

Hey FTF --

How do I link them?

One easy way is to open both of your threads in separate tabs. Copy the url from your earlier thread (make sure there are no #'s in it -- i.e., make sure you've clicked the title of the thread, not the "updated" option next to the title), then switch tabs to your new thread. You can reply to your own thread and paste in the link -- maybe leave a note like "continuing from this thread".

Hope that gets you started;

kells76

[SaltyDawg]

Thank you SD. How do I link them?

Follow Kells' instructions, as that is what I would have told you.

[ForeverDad]

While I was unsuccessfully searching for how long your relationship was, I came across this comment:  "so gave me an ultimatum: sign over the rights or abortion"  It reminded me of a prior post I made:

One in particular: ”you are trying to take power away from me and I will not allow it.” Wow! I never would even have considered such a thing. In truth I’m trying everything to balance power.

Hm, she craves having the power.  A reasonably normal person would prefer to share.

While the legal professionals may not ponder this, I consider the length of the relationship an important factoid.  Why, if you've been together for X years, is she vague about paternity, only now pondering protection orders and preemptively seeking supervised visits after having made a baby together?

This is what my then-spouse claimed when we separated ... both protection and supervised visits.  Hence, what she is laying the groundwork for is not all that surprising.

As I often remark, the ex has to make you appear worse than the ex, whether by insinuation (at first) or outright allegations (if insinuations fail).

While I have complaints how my local family court handled my case, there is something it did right.  From the start she filed for protection for both herself and our 3 year old son.  That pulled CPS in and I was interviewed, then when we had our next hearing the CPS investigator stood up in court and stated they had "no concerns" about me.  So her seeking me to be limited to supervised visit quickly fell flat.  He was removed from her protection case and I was assigned their typical dad alternate weekends.

Problem was, that should have raised the court's eyebrows, why did she - after 15 years marriage - want me supervised when CPS had no issues with me?  All they had was her allegation against me.  The mistake was that CPS only looked at me, not both of us.

This is something I want to make very clear, as often this approach is not dealt with.  When someone files an allegation, the perception is that it is the accuser who is the victim, the accused is the perpetrator.  So little progress will be made if only you are assessed, even if nothing negative is found in you. There is still that victim-perpetrator perception she started.  So if not properly adjusted, all the court does is investigate the accused and goes no further.  (All my ex's allegations against me resulted in weak "unsubstantiated" findings, never clear "unfounded" ones.) Depending on how things develop, you may have to file against her too so that you both are assessed.

As I noted above, my supervised status only lasted for a couple weeks, until the next hearing where CPS could present their assessment.  Beware of what has happened to some dads here, where they suffered months of supervised schedules, as though if they were supervised long enough then something negative could be detected.  Or they were put on a long schedule very slowing ramping up visits solely on the claims the child must only be slowly reintroduced to the previously blocked parent.  My point is not to get sidelined into a long introduction process once confirmed as the father.

Of course, all this is moot if you're not the father, in which case you just walk away.

[Outdorenthusiast]

I read some of the earlier linked thread.  There could also be another element here too - money.  You said earlier that she cheated and lied so many times to increase her financial security (paraphrasing)…. Child support if she has full custody can be a financial motivator - although a sick one.  (Nobody said BPD was logical - just manipulative).

Externally - I agree with all advice said here, the paternity test will decide the path, and then the rest will be an intense negotiation.  She chose starting from the far right, and your counsel will need to approach as a high conflict case and go in equally aggressive from the left.  It will be cheaper for you in the long run.  The likely scenario is what has been shared.  She is projecting, -  you are the antagonist, she is the victim, and the lawyer is the rescuer.  It perfectly plays into her thought processes.  You must be painted evil for her world to function.  It isn’t logical or rational - it just is.  You are no longer her rescuer - so you now must be the antagonist and painted black.  Separate your feelings from this as this Karpman triangle is part of the BPD condition and not anything you overtly did.  Keep above it and keep focused on the steps and the end game.  Paternity test first, asserting your unobstructed rights as a father second (if appropriate).

Hang tight - keep your head up and take a deep breath, work to keep your depression/stress at bay during this straining ordeal.  Remember you are a good guy who’s caretaking personality was unfortunately twisted against you.  A year from now the worst of this will all be over and you can have a pint and laugh about the bullet you dodged.

You aren’t alone, keep talking.

[Firsttimefather]

Ty OE,
 That is very helpful to consider the ‘triangle’ .I realize when I am not sucked into the drama I feel like I’m a shepherd standing on a hillside watching all the sheep. I find myself building defenses for crimes that don’t exist. I wish there were a way to stop the slanderous accusations that she will no doubt bring to the table. I however recognize it’s just drama and her drama and the lawyers must be able to see this?
 My attorney meeting is tomorrow morning so I will ask some questions. All day I have been working on a list. I’m so mentally preoccupied by it all today and trying hard to not think about it but loneliness kicks in on me as I process all the dysfunction and abuse. Funny how you can miss someone who wasn’t good to you.

[SaltyDawg]

That is very helpful to consider the ‘triangle’
Here is some more info on the Drama Triangle
https://www.bpdfamily.com/content/karpman-drama-triangle

I wish there were a way to stop the slanderous accusations that she will no doubt bring to the table. I however recognize it’s just drama and her drama and the lawyers must be able to see this?
There isn't a way to stop this insanity - you cannot control the insane.  However, you can control what you do.  So, use logic debunk any false allegation, and document everything, you can cover your $$, use a body recorder like the police if you must.  Many lawyers just want the money, so they say and do what their financial overlords coerce them to do.

My attorney meeting is tomorrow morning so I will ask some questions. All day I have been working on a list. I’m so mentally preoccupied by it all today and trying hard to not think about it but loneliness kicks in on me as I process all the dysfunction and abuse.
Practice self-care after you are done with your attorney tomorrow.

Keep up the good work, you are doing one of my Mantra's of the 7 P's...
Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance.

Funny how you can miss someone who wasn’t good to you.
You are describing the trauma bond, here is some info on that:
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=229693.0 [signs]
https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=327131.0 [how to deal with it]

[SinisterComplex]

FTF, just chiming in to let you know I am still paying attention. ;-)

Also, since SD already pointed out one of my favorite little mind tricks...the 7 P's method I typically also attach the KISS method to it as well

Keep
It
Simple
Stupid

By doing this you keep your mind straight and you quell any emotional tidal waves more or less.

Stay strong, keep your head up, be kind to you and take care of yourself

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Firsttimefather]

Thank you SD and SC,
 Great chat with atty today.Right in line with everyone here. He said: here attorney is obviously just making a quick buck and there is a comment on their paperwork’ client wants to know why I care about this information.”
 My atty said it was all he could do to not call her lawyer and ask him to only ask questions that make sense. (Lol)
 He said that her ‘plead’ regarding the supervised visits first off is out of context and currently a moot point. Her apprehension to test is obviously very suggestive that it may not be my child. He said all of this can be avoided but let her open up these cans of worms.
  If anything else she is revealing to my lawyer that I’m telling the truth and he feels very aware of her now.
  The waiting is hard and that ‘trauma bond’ has me wanting to call and tell her ‘hey you are wasting your money…etc.” Of course I won’t but just makes me chuckle sometimes at the sheer absurdity of it all.

[SaltyDawg]

Keep going one day at a time. 

You will get an answer sooner or later, and for that you need to be patient.

In the meantime, do practice self-care, exercise, therapy, get lost in a movie, or whatever you enjoy doing for yourself.

Take care.