The waiting is ONE of the hardest parts.

[Firsttimefather]

 Thought I would share some thoughts of where I’m at in the journey. I had a real low point the other day, completely upset because she hadn’t responded to the atty and the deadline is today. Next step court order.
 A couple of things I noticed in myself and in the situation:

 1.when she texted the other day in response to the letter, I was    better able to see the little ways in which she would deliver these words that inspired some sense of hope that we could attain some sort of resolution. I got sucked in. Though I could see it happening I still couldn’t help but be sucked back in the the ‘drama’ but mostly ‘her drama’ No contact is so necessary sometimes.

2.I have to remind myself that it’s her drama. That’s what makes it more frustrating as you can see it from afar and see those swept up in it as I once was. I remember a counselor who suggested that BPD is kinda like the Peanuts character Pigpen. The swirl of dust surrounding Pigpen in the drama that follows with BPD.

3.I have to remind myself I’m doing what’s right, doing something rational and not selfish but not selfless. I’m just a few words I was hit with this feeling of doubt and second guessing. Some of it I believe is that despite everything there is still this trigger that I need to protect her, need to make sure she is ok. I was worried about the deadline as I don’t want to see her suffer and now that it’s moving into this arena. It’s no longer just a nice note from the atty.

Question: All of this, for instance her ambivalence to respond to the atty letter thus necessitating a court order: does this matter to the big picture any? I’m sure my atty at least now has a better picture of what my expwBPD  is like or like to deal with

4.funny when you look back at some of her messages and see how truly off the wall they are. One in particular:”you are trying to take power away from me and I will not allow it.” Wow! I never would even have considered such a thing. In truth I’m trying everything to balance power. However, fair enough as it does sorta do what she is suggesting I suppose.

5.Projection, projection, projection! The gaslighting is one thing but when every stab or slur at me more so describes the person on the other end of the line…
.

I look forward to further detachment from my expwBPD. It is still so hard to get a read on her though I know it’s not worth the time and energy to try. That’s why I hired help. This relationship has had me in the same place the entire time. Caught up in the wake of her flight or fight response: am I coming or going, moving or staying, is it my child or not my child. And above all else the big ‘Why?” . I know the drama is par for the course however how much more unnecessarily complicated it’s become.
 I many times this weekend wanted so badly to write, to text…I didn’t however and I truly don’t intend to. When it comes down to it, and this is sad for me to admit: I just truly don’t have anything to say..(let me rephrase: I know i won’t be heard or acknowledged and she will spin us into conflict as to fuel more drama.of that I’m certain.
Still learning but getting through it. Thanks for listening.

[ForeverDad]

One in particular: ”you are trying to take power away from me and I will not allow it.” Wow! I never would even have considered such a thing. In truth I’m trying everything to balance power.

Hm, she craves having the power.  A reasonably normal person would prefer to share.

I've been pondering these scenarios:
1. She knows who the father is and it's you.
2. She knows who the father is and it's not you but she won't admit it.
3. She is unsure who the father is and wants to keep control, such as wanting you to drop the paternity test and only then maybe she'll let you see the child briefly.

If it is #1 then she has some issues between you being her lover versus you being a father.  It happened to me, things were slowing going downhill but it snowballed once I became a father, which evidently reminded her of her abuser stepfather.

So I'm torn between #2 and #3.  Even so, the only way to resolve this either way is to proceed with the paternity test.

[Firsttimefather]

Ty FD,
 I’ve read your reply SO many times now. The latest is this:
 I answered 2 phone calls thus far. This was sanctioned by my counsel so I went for it. I’m very careful about what I say. I also spoke with one of her exes the other night.
 1.She really wants me to drop the atty as she feels it will be expensive and thinks I am suing her for custody.
  2.She denies having ever cheating on me, lying to me etc.
  3.She said she is calling me today to offer my mother and myself to come visit.

Again, if not for the lawyer’s letter I wouldn’t have heard from her. I don’t believe I can trust her. The ex confirmed many things I had already believed to be true.
There is a lot of gaslighting still going on. My good friend reminded me‘don’t forget she is manipulative.’ She also through in a ‘I’ve heard that law firm is shady.’..
 It seems to me the best course of action is the one I’m taking.
 The court order is being written up today.

[GaGrl]

You need a mantra, like...

"Nothing without the DNA test...nothing without the DNA test..."

All else follows from those results.

She is concerned you want custody? Well, if the DNA shows that you are indeed the father, you would be asking for joint legal custody in order to establish a schedule, to have decision-making for medical, educational, etc. needs, correct? And she will view this as a loss of control.

[Firsttimefather]

GG,
 Ty.
 I don’t really feel I have any option. If I do nothing , first off I will never know for sure so a very tumultuous situation can and ensue. She can decide at any point that she wants sue me. My lack of activity won’t look good for me further down the road it seems. There is the human side, my own personal moral and ethical compass and beliefs.
 I know in the end it comes down to agreements and to put off these agreements will most likely make it more difficult.
  I read over posts here and it seems wise to be prepared and in looking back my failure to see things as they were never served me well.
 I’m trying to look further ahead, the paternity test is the literal seed and a verified proof of what I may be up against.She and I entered into this on ‘mutual agreements’ with the idea of trust as a backing. Seems like I tried that path with her.

[SaltyDawg]

Your attorney is going to be expensive; however, it will be far more expensive in the long run if you don't [paying for child support and whatever else the court deems as necessary].  Make sure your attorney specializes in high conflict situations and is familiar with her actions.

Do get a DNA test, if you aren't the father, it simplifies your exit strategy, and will lessen the guilt that you feel as she cheated on you.  If you are the father, than you can control the situation better [joint control versus no control] and lookout for the welfare of your child better - if you take custody, then she may even need to pay for child support.  If she refuses to do the DNA test, make sure your attorney writes up papers to acknowledge that you are not the father, and will not pursue you for any support, signed, witnessed, and notarized.  This is why you have hired a professional for help in this matter.  He knows the local laws and rules in this matter, make him earn his fee that you are paying him/her.  If she brings it up at a later date, you can then decline the DNA test with this piece of paper - you did your due diligence in the matter if and when she attempts to sue you.

Do document, everything, if in doubt, document that too.  You never know what your attorney may find useful in this situation.

Video with audio recording is best (especially if you can catch her in a manipulative lie of gaslighting and/or borderline behavior); however do be sure to know you local wire tapping laws as they vary greatly from location to location -- your attorney would be a good source of information for that.  E-mails and texts are good.

Keep contact to a minimum with her, don't seek her out.  If she seeks you out, do record it with your phone (make sure you have enough room, uses the lowest quality / size settings to maximize the recording time - all the court needs is a low resolution video for your side).  Use the BIFF principle when communicating, more information can be found here:  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=134124.0

[Firsttimefather]

SD,
 I can’t even begin to explain how perfectly timed t your reply arrived.
 I believe you sent this to me before ? Anyway everyone here on this thread including yourself I feel are giving me such sound advice in a sense that it matches my thoughts when the smokescreen  around the situation clears. I look forward to it clearing even more.
 The next step has begun moving forward as of this morning. It feels like yet another line in the sand. The answer to the big question  will still take some time but at least it’s further in process.
 I have a touch of sadness today towards the emotional injustice of it all. They are brief waves…(triggers y’know?)
 There is something that occurred to me I wanted to share. It just crossed my mind. There is something she has said to me in more than one occasion and it’s always so hard to swallow cause to me I consider kinda sociopathic. I cannot see where anyone k know would say such a thing. I have even googled it and a meme came up where it is the saying on a virus warning for website (kinda) Ok, here it is:
 “ Your safety is not important…” (this is in response to me expressing how it feels unsafe to be around them in lieu of the police call)

Anyway,
 Glad to be here and thank you all
 

[ForeverDad]

I don't want to be the lone voice in the wilderness, but (1) recording laws were written with the professionals in mind, people such as reporters and (2) any documentation of abuse or threats are totally okay.

However, if you seek her out, and especially if you try to frame her, then that may figure into how recordings are viewed.

[Firsttimefather]

Agreed FD, that makes sense to me. I truly think the answer is NC as is best possible.I think. Very limited if any at all. Not seek her out. There is nothing left to say on any matters to this point imo and I paid someone to take on that burden anyway.
 

[SaltyDawg]

I don't want to be the lone voice in the wilderness, but (1) recording laws were written with the professionals in mind, people such as reporters and (2) any documentation of abuse or threats are totally okay.

However, if you seek her out, and especially if you try to frame her, then that may figure into how recordings are viewed.

I generally agree with that; however, that statement definitely goes into the gray area of the law.

If you are overtly recording with your phone [e.g. holding up your phone and saying you are recording, that is indeed fine, as you have notified all parties - even if they are telling you they don't want to be recorded].  Yes, the recording laws are written with professionals in mind, so even if you are busted, it is a minor offense on your record.  Just look at Linda Tripp in the Monica Lewinski - Bill Clinton scandal.  She was charged for wire tapping violations; however, she didn't do jail time, and the charges were ultimately dismissed.  A good attorney will be able to handle covert recordings in locations such as Maryland which is an all-party notification location.  My wife has stupidly given me permission to record her as she has taunted me to do that, even in front of two different therapists, and has been recorded more than once saying that, and so I am recording her when things get 'crazy' with the permission that she gave me while she was splitting, and so far she has not yet rescinded this permission.  However, if there are others that I accidentally record, I delete those recordings.  I also delete recording that have nothing of interest on them, as that is a waste of space.  Depending on locale many exempt DV recordings as part of the 'public safety exemption' which may or may not be present for your location. 

To make a long story short, do record the offender, regardless of the wire tapping laws as a felony conviction with jail time on them is far more satisfying that a misdemeanor charge that will likely get dropped [but not guaranteed] with a good attorney for yourself.  This is a case where 'common sense' should prevail.  However, please do be aware of the law, so you can properly address it, if you are being challenged on what you have done.

I am going to state the obvious... One more thing, if you have a propensity to lose your temper and retaliate against your pwBPD, that too will be recorded, and your recording of yourself will become a double-edged sword.  The law is blind, if you do something illegal while you are recording your pwBPD, you too can get in trouble and held accountable for your reactions.

If you are a borderline and/or narcissist reading this, please assume that you are being recorded.  If not by your partner, there are security systems, ring door bells, traffic lights, all kinds of devices recording you.  Do the right thing, and don't rage, and don't do anything stupid that will get you into trouble.

[Firsttimefather]

Kinda having a minor ‘freak out’.
 Now I ok’d my petition for paternity on Thursday and the next step is serving the summons.
  I noticed a mistake on the petition regarding when we ‘engaged in intercourse’ .It mentions the wrong month. Now I just discovered this moments ago so emailed my atty. I haven’t been told that the petition has been served yet and I know the legal system is somewhat slow. Will this mess up my situation?

 Also we weren’t married and though I have plenty of reason to suspect it is possibly my child, will my request be turned down by the court because of this?

[SaltyDawg]

It sounds like an 'honest' mistake.  You did the right thing by letting your attorney know about the mistake on the paperwork.  Let the attorney handle it, and there is a good chance it will become a 'non' issue, especially if the attorney indicates it is his mistake.  However, try not to make too many of those types of mistakes, or it will be used against you and question your ability to recall facts.

[ForeverDad]

It probably hit you like a ton of bricks when you realized the error, however it happened.  Reality check... A year from now it will have been handled and at that point, looking back, old news.  We've all been there, done that.  I too was amazed how poorly my story got written onto paper.  I was careful, the professionals not so much.

[SinisterComplex]

Kinda having a minor ‘freak out’.
 Now I ok’d my petition for paternity on Thursday and the next step is serving the summons.
  I noticed a mistake on the petition regarding when we ‘engaged in intercourse’ .It mentions the wrong month. Now I just discovered this moments ago so emailed my atty. I haven’t been told that the petition has been served yet and I know the legal system is somewhat slow. Will this mess up my situation?

 Also we weren’t married and though I have plenty of reason to suspect it is possibly my child, will my request be turned down by the court because of this?

FTF, you should be fine. You caught the mistake in time. Just be very careful...you have to be dead on the nuts with this stuff moving forward. Do not leave anything to chance.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Firsttimefather]

Ty SC,
 A few nights back I decided I needed to purge my mind of a lot of this. I spent a few days holed up in my room playing guitar and thinking about EVERYTHING. I see all the many ways I was misled and allowed myself to be misled. I realize now how very, very possible it is that this is not my child however the test is the only answer.
  After these days I awoke Monday to an email from my attorney that the mistake is no big deal and they will amend it. Also that morning she was served her summons. Today I received an actual court date.
  I see a lot of information and I know I can ask my attorney this however I was curious if anyone knows if there is still anyway for her to get out of the test?
 

[ForeverDad]

Is she an astronaut?  Could she take the world's first baby into space?

As is the case with so many obstructions and chaos, she may be able to delay in surprising, frustrating and confounding ways, and delay again, but no, not block.

[SinisterComplex]

Ty SC,
 A few nights back I decided I needed to purge my mind of a lot of this. I spent a few days holed up in my room playing guitar and thinking about EVERYTHING. I see all the many ways I was misled and allowed myself to be misled. I realize now how very, very possible it is that this is not my child however the test is the only answer.
  After these days I awoke Monday to an email from my attorney that the mistake is no big deal and they will amend it. Also that morning she was served her summons. Today I received an actual court date.
  I see a lot of information and I know I can ask my attorney this however I was curious if anyone knows if there is still anyway for her to get out of the test?
 

As FD mentioned...no, she cannot block it. Once she is summoned/petitioned she is forced to comply by law. No wiggle room. Essentially she is trapped now. She either complies and you find out one way or the other or she gets to serve time or a hefty fine, etc if she refuses since that would be contempt of court.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Firsttimefather]

SC and FD,
 Thank you.. My goal of course is not to see her in trouble however looking back I have uncovered so much fraud in her history: busted for claiming food stamps though making well over the amount etc.., cheating on her master’s degree, car insurance fraud, of course lies, lies, lies., potentially a multitude of false police reports. The attempts at extortion I just underwent in recent weeks….
 I do believe in Karma and I do believe the world would be a safer place if these stories came to light.
  That’s not my plight but I wanted to vent that I suppose. This little girl who entered the world has every right to know who her father is. If it is me then I must do what I can’t for her. If it is not then hopefully at least this will help her along that journey.
  I am so glad this group is here. There is a lot of information on line and it can be very misleading. I need to know what my obligations are in this world, I’m this universe. My concerns stemmed from a certain doubt in systems and seeing how some people are never held accountable for their actions.
 I also think of the various true crime shows where someone say graduates to something like murder. Not saying that is where she is headed, but maybe just maybe this puts her on someone’s radar. Maybe someone’s life, emotions, hearts or mind is spared.
 I’m working through detaching every day. I don’t look her up, I don’t look at photos, I don’t read I over old emails or texts. I look forward to the day when I can maybe delete it all and let it entirely go.
 This little child deserves to know who her father is and I deserve to know if she is my daughter.
  I pray and hope for best and I also want to say that you all are part of my family this holiday season. You were there with me and for me last year at this time and despite all that I have been through, and though that has brought me here, I am glad it did. I need you all, that is obvious. I’m the darkness here I have found the light.
 Love…

[ForeverDad]

What is the mother's stance at this point?

(1) Does she agree you are the father - or not?

(2) Is she blocking reasonable access - or not?

That is all it boils down to.

[Firsttimefather]

She is blocking access and she implies I’m still the father. Now I haven’t spoken to her in a week and a half however last conversation she continued to imply I am the father. I actually asked her flat out and she paused and said , ‘are you recording this?’  Then ‘how can I ask her that.’

[SinisterComplex]

She is blocking access and she implies I’m still the father. Now I haven’t spoken to her in a week and a half however last conversation she continued to imply I am the father. I actually asked her flat out and she paused and said , ‘are you recording this?’  Then ‘how can I ask her that.’

FTF, if that doesn't make your spider senses tingle I don't what will. What sucks is that there is a game being played. It's not right and you just want clear answers which you are not getting. Judging by that response it almost sounds like she knows something you don't and she is trying to cover it up. Bluntly, I think there is a high probability it isn't your kid. Obviously can't know for sure but my friend do not give an inch and do not let down your guard at all.

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[ForeverDad]

I discovered that courts don't care what happened in the past, well, not too much.  We separated when my son was three years old and in between start of separation and the start of the divorce case there were three months where the first temp order lapsed.  And for the next three months she totally blocked me so I had no contact with my son, no visits and not even phone calls.  (There was no dispute or doubt of my parental status.)

So when finally we arrived in court for the divorce's temporary order hearing and the magistrate was informed of the past three months, he simply said "I'll fix that."  His wimpy solution?  He made another temp order with me again lacking any temporary custody authority and with only alternate weekends and an evening in between.  No makeup time for the missed three months.  No consequences for the unilateral blocking for the prior three months.  His inadequate solution was a token minimal time restarted similar to before.

Your ex is in that no woman's land where she either will have to admit it is yours or admit she was unfaithful to your relationship.  Of course it's too late to trust anything she says either way.  DNA test tells all.

I have no idea how they are able to confirm she brings the right baby for testing.  Maybe she has to get tested too so the company proves they test the right baby?

If it does turn out that you're the father, be prepared for her to try to obstruct your parenting time because... oh wonder of wonders... she's the mother and she's breastfeeding.  Big whoop, that is no excuse.  She can express her milk and preserve it in the freezer while the child is away.  And she can pass the milk along at exchanges so you can feed the child.

[Firsttimefather]

Well made it through Christmas and not sure if it’s my kid…
  I don’t know whether to believe she is just so I can give her a telepathic love from afar or if she isn’t then whatever, forget about it. I chose the latter, well at least ‘forget about it’
  No shortage of triggers on the holidays. I did have one small window into social media and now it appears I’m totally blocked.  Ostracized if you will. This is the first holiday however that I didn’t send out a ‘Merry Christmas’ text. I did for Thanksgiving but this time I just didn’t see the point.
  No photos, no anything about the baby on the holidays. I’ve been completely blocked out. All I can say to it is I’m glad I hired counsel. Without that I would be floating out here, trying to make contact and hoping for some shred of honesty or hope to shine through. Probably next would be stalking or harassment allegations. It’s all a bad course any which way but the one I chose.
 It’s funny how you can catch yourself reminiscing or missing certain things and then your rational brain kicks in and says ,”oh yeah, you really miss the dysfunction? You really miss the abuse?”
  I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas. I found mine a bit difficult but know it could have potentially been much worse.

[SinisterComplex]

Well made it through Christmas and not sure if it’s my kid…
  I don’t know whether to believe she is just so I can give her a telepathic love from afar or if she isn’t then whatever, forget about it. I chose the latter, well at least ‘forget about it’
  No shortage of triggers on the holidays. I did have one small window into social media and now it appears I’m totally blocked.  Ostracized if you will. This is the first holiday however that I didn’t send out a ‘Merry Christmas’ text. I did for Thanksgiving but this time I just didn’t see the point.
  No photos, no anything about the baby on the holidays. I’ve been completely blocked out. All I can say to it is I’m glad I hired counsel. Without that I would be floating out here, trying to make contact and hoping for some shred of honesty or hope to shine through. Probably next would be stalking or harassment allegations. It’s all a bad course any which way but the one I chose.
 It’s funny how you can catch yourself reminiscing or missing certain things and then your rational brain kicks in and says ,”oh yeah, you really miss the dysfunction? You really miss the abuse?”
  I hope everyone had a Merry Christmas. I found mine a bit difficult but know it could have potentially been much worse.

Yes there always comes that where's my baby powder moment and you have to smack yourself in the face. Cue the Mike Epps Pimp slap from How High. LOL. 

Cheers and best wishes!

-SC-

[Firsttimefather]

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=354737.0;topicseen