BPD Relapse?

[JadedEmpath]

Things have been really good with my partner for a while now. The sort of bizarre behaviors (obvious splitting, announcing that we need to break up out of no where, etc.) have been non-existent for maybe over a year? He's been more rational/reasonable, caring, understanding, tolerant of distress. Things aren't perfect, but our conflicts have been more based in reality, rather than products of his symptoms. 

Then, on Tuesday, I noticed him being overly affectionate, to the point that it was a red flag. Then, that night, I was stressed out while working on my taxes, and it all changed. He started saying hateful things like he use to. I got that feeling in the pit of my stomach. Its like he is a different person, he's not in the same reality. A while later I went to bed, and he pushed through the feelings. He told me he didn't like feeling that way. He wanted to be intimate and push those feelings away. It took me a minute to feel comfortable, but then we did and everything seemed fine.

But then last night I snapped at him about something and he was right back to the ugliness. I went to bed early and he came in the room after I fell asleep and took my blankets/turned on the light/loudly complained about how I am unsupportive of him. I calmly told him I didn't want to talk about it right now, and asked him to respect that, but he wouldn't quit. I told him that I would sleep in my car if he wouldn't respect my boundary, and he still didn't stop, so I set up in my car. After I fell asleep out there he came and knocked on the car until I came out to talk to him. I reminded him that he hadn't been like this in a really long time except for Tuesday. I asked him to notice the similarities between how he felt Tuesday and how he felt then. I explained that I wasn't trying to "cause a scene", I just genuinely wanted to go to sleep, and he wasn't allowing me to do that in the house. long story short, I eventually went back to sleep in bed and he left me alone.

30 minutes ago I texted him. I told him I loved him, and that he is important to me. I told him I felt backed into a corner last night, and that I wasn't prepared to have a meaningful conversation at that time. I acknowledged the discontent he was communicating. I told him that I appreciate the way that he has worked to make changes about the things that make me unhappy, and I want to reciprocate that. I asked him for some specific things that I can do going forward to make him feel more supported and respected.

He responded "we probably need to break up, just isn't working, (smiley face)".

Its just been so long since he has been this way. We have been together for 10 years. This had been the longest "healthy?" patch he'd ever exhibited. It feels discouraging and confusing. I don't know how to respond. I'm having to get back into the mindset of monitoring how I respond, rather than just being authentically me. I don't understand why now. I am getting ready to graduate, and I know he has expressed concern in the past that I "will just leave him" once I graduate. SO that might be part of it? That he's "pushing" now to protect himself psychologically. But things were so good recently. It blows my mind that he would think I'd want to leave.

I'm not sure what I am looking for. I guess I want to be reminded that this is just part of it. Relapse is part of the process? Maybe I'm looking for hope or something positive to hold onto?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thankful person]

Hi jaded empath,

I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this, it must be a scary and uncertain time for you. I don’t have much advice but I felt compelled to reply because I have been going through similar for the past six months. Long story short, dbpdw underwent dbt before we met which helped her beat her self harming and eating disorder. She considers herself cured from bpd, so she doesn’t think she can improve herself in any way. So when I joined bpd family 2 years ago, I learnt so much about how to improve our relationship which had all the hallmarks of control, anger, paranoia, jealousy etc. People say we can’t change them, but I really felt I had because my wife became a more sane and reasonable person, in response to my standing up for myself and taking better care of myself and laying of the caretaking. I always thought it was bizarre at the time. It seems a long and distant memory now, but I know it to be true because I was on here most days sharing my story trying to give others hope. Anyway, here’s the thing: my wife has been split black on me since almost straight after she birthed our third baby in October last year. I have genuinely feared for our marriage. I’m “not good enough” in many ways and she acts and speaks as though she hates me at times. I’m hoping she’s showing some signs of coming out of this, but I can’t trust any such thing because she’s come out of it for a few hours/days here and there and then no matter what I do or say, I’m suddenly accused of “ruining everything yet again”. So I know it’s a living nightmare. But yes they can relapse. Just when I was starting to I feel safe to behave more like a normal person in a normal relationship. Maybe we’ll get there again, maybe we won’t make it, who knows? But I don’t think we can ever get complacent and assume they won’t turn against us. It does sound like your partner’s behaviour could be related to your graduation. But my wife can’t even explain her own thoughts and feelings so there’s really no point in me trying to work it out. Congratulations on your graduation! Don’t let your partner stop you celebrating your achievements or feeling proud of yourself. I wish you all the best.

[JadedEmpath]

Hey Thankful Person,

Thank you for sharing your experience and solidarity. Although its reassuring to know that I'm not alone in this experience, I'm sorry to hear that you're having to go through this disappointment. Especially right after the birth of a child, I can't imagine how hard that must be.

This "Just when I was starting to I feel safe to behave more like a normal person in a normal relationship" resonates. I hate this so much.

This "don’t think we can ever get complacent and assume they won’t turn against us" too. It's so strange that no matter how close your relationship is or how much you've been through together, it can mean nothing in an instant. I just want to do something to snap him out of it when he's like that, and it's so frustrating to know that there really isn't anything to do.

Thanks for the words of encouragement, and I wish you the best as well.

[Pook075]

Hi Jaded.  I have a similar story, 24 years of marriage, several tough years caring for my parents at home as they reached the end, and then my wife just walked saying I never cared about her, was never there for her, etc.  It's been 8 months now and there's still almost zero communication.

While I don't have any direct advice on fixing your marriage, I will say that what's got me through this is finding myself once again and living my life for me.  Getting back into church has also been a huge positive in my life.  Eventually I realized, like all of us do, that my marriage will always have challenges and they will very rarely be fair to me.  I can accept that and try to work things out or reject it and file for divorce...for now I'm in the "wait and see" mode.  Moving on from my wife wouldn't be that difficult now but our kids, our grandson, and her big family (which is my family after 25 years) is worth waiting this out.

In your situation, the best advice I can give is to figure out what you can accept and what you can't afford to lose.  Make informed decisions on your own terms, and focus on yourself as much as you can.  It's great you're graduating- congrats!  Hopefully a great career will follow?  Chase your dreams and hopefully the rest will fall in place over time.

I wish you the best of luck and I'm so sorry you're going through this!

[Manic Miner]

This "don’t think we can ever get complacent and assume they won’t turn against us" too. It's so strange that no matter how close your relationship is or how much you've been through together, it can mean nothing in an instant. I just want to do something to snap him out of it when he's like that, and it's so frustrating to know that there really isn't anything to do.

Yes. Because they live in a moment. From moment to moment, with rare occasions and brief periods when everything is coming together and connected (as it should - in normal, healthy relationships). They are not stupid, they just cannot 'remember' the details when their intense emotions overwhelm them. Because current emotions = facts. Alas, those emotions are usually negative. So it's almost a constant tug of war, even when everything seems fine.

[BigEasyHeart]

my wife just walked saying I never cared about her, was never there for her, etc.  It's been 8 months now and there's still almost zero communication.

I just have to comment on how strange it is to me that phrases like "was never there for me" come up. Something very similar to this was said to me during the breakup. I'd heard her say the same phrase about other family, friends, and ex's in her life before me, and I see it all over this site when people share their stories.

If you go to the DSM, Diagnostic Symptoms Explained section (https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder), you also find this specific kind of language mentioned:

"they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand"

It's so odd that there is such a specific wording that seems to pop up repeatedly like this. I don't think I've ever described a person as being "there" or "not there" for me.  




  

[Cat Familiar]

I just have to comment on how strange it is to me that phrases like "was never there for me" come up. Something very similar to this was said to me during the breakup. I'd heard her say the same phrase about other family, friends, and ex's in her life before me, and I see it all over this site when people share their stories.

If you go to the DSM, Diagnostic Symptoms Explained section (https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder), you also find this specific kind of language mentioned:

"they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not "there" enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will "be there" in return to meet their own needs on demand"

It's so odd that there is such a specific wording that seems to pop up repeatedly like this. I don't think I've ever described a person as being "there" or "not there" for me.  

Interesting point. I have grumbled at times that my husband has not been very participatory in household chores or yard work, but there’s a specificity to that that is not present in complaints about “not being there” for me.

What does “not being there” even mean? If there’s no concrete definition, how can one endeavor to be “more there” or refute the accusation (not that that would be effective anyway with a pwBPD)?

Early on, when he was more open to discussing his internal state, my husband told me that he “didn’t feel real” or “didn’t feel like a real person”. Of course I asked what that meant, and abruptly hit a dead end. (He’d let himself be too candid with someone who has made a living at times being an interviewer.)

Whether these nebulous concepts can be defined by them or not, the “not there for me” is a winning gambit for victimhood.

Another concept I’ve experienced is that for those of us who know our pwBPD well, the validation we can offer is often discounted by them, since we do know them so well, and can see the underbelly of their self loathing and shame. Far better to receive praise and compliments from those who admire the pretend perfect self they promote in the public eye.

[Cat Familiar]

Yet another weirdly common BPD accusation is “You are on their side!

I first heard this one when I met my husband’s sisters for the first time. We had flown across country and were staying with one sister when my husband begin to gripe that his sisters didn’t feel like he “was part of the family.”

Our relationship was new at the time, I hadn’t heard about BPD, for the most part we were still in the honeymoon phase, and I had yet to see the weird behavior that I’d soon become familiar with.

So, with the intent to soothe him, I made some comment about living on the opposite coast and his sisters being hyper involved with their children. Suddenly he was furious. “You’re on their side!”

WTF? I was just looking at it from a lens of rationality. I’d just met his sisters. I was far from home and why on earth would I be on *the side* of people with whom I had never met until the day before?

I guess that was our first “argument” and it made absolutely no sense to me.

That pattern played out a few more times until I finally figured out that I best keep my mouth shut when he was complaining about somebody, rather than looking at the situation objectively and trying to understand someone else’s motivation.

[thankful person]

I’m still so thankful to come on here and be amongst friends at the end of another difficult day. I know you’ll all be “there for me”. Lol. The sun was out this morning and my wife came downstairs with the usual complaint of having nothing to wear. Of course the £1000+ she spent on my credit card recently for holiday clothing doesn’t count because that was for glamorous evening wear not day to day wear. (Apparently I should be getting a refund back for some items which she has returned). The conversation quickly escalated to, “you never support me. How can you be making coffee or making up our daughter’s meds when you should be supporting me?” Moving on to, “why are we even wearing our wedding rings? They’re meaningless!” (Cue: we both take them off and I put mine out of the kids’ reach and am ordered not to touch hers she doesn’t care if they go missing, it’s all about the money with me…) I suggested maybe I would just go out for the day and she says, “I’d prefer it if you just leave forever…” About an hour later my 3 year old brought my wife’s rings to her and I gently persuaded her that maybe we could both put our rings back on so we did. Who am I kidding when I say I think maybe she’s coming out of this split?

[Notwendy]

Karpman triangle dynamics can be played out with one person. Addictive behavior fits this and over spending is one of them. They feel badly, ( victim) and "rescue" themselves with purchases. "I deserve this". The problem is that someone has to pay the bills and if it's not them, they don't see the consequences of this behavior. They have no incentive to change this behavior. It's up to the person paying the bills to say no, which can be difficult to do.

[ortac77]

Hi JadedEmpath

You are certainly not alone in this, my pwBPD has been relatively stable for some time now but life, living with someone with this condition is always on a 'knife edge'.

I noticed some odd behaviour in my partner a couple of weeks ago, I tried to ask him but was dismissed rather abruptly and told to mind my own (expletive) business - this I did and merely told him that I was there if he wanted to talk but I would respect his space. He then effectively withdrew for a week and if I am honest I 'feared' something was coming!

I was working last weekend and on returning home met a scene of him arguing with a number of the neighbours - it transpired that he had verbally abused their children. I calmed the argument but of course was then told "you are on their side - you never support me".

I did not react, remained calm whilst he ranted at me. He then went to his room and later came back, seemed calmer but talked a lot about his trauma from the past and how the therapy he is receiving had disturbed him and how he could not cope and had taken an overdose of tablets and how he was going to 'barricade' himself in if I called the medical services.

In the end I managed to persuade him that I would call the medical services regardless and did so - they arrived and the situation was dealt with and I have now had a long chat with his Doctor to try and gain some further support. For now calm has returned, he is quiet and I have taken some time off work myself.

Short precis of a rather difficult few days and which came out of the blue - my point even when things seem to be OK the condition is always there just waiting for something to trigger it and however resilient we are it has an effect on us as the carer.

Hugs

[Manic Miner]

That pattern played out a few more times until I finally figured out that I best keep my mouth shut when he was complaining about somebody, rather than looking at the situation objectively and trying to understand someone else’s motivation.

Oh yes, this is so true.
I've bitten my tongue far too much for the very same reason. So many times when I tried to be an objective side, to offer something neutral or rational, to connect the two sides, I was met with criticism, denial, persuasion or fantasy thinking. In the end I've learned that letting go my (ex?)W to talk and just say hollow responses like 'oh shame, that's bad, you did what you could' or just remain silent for a while, would be much more effective than to actually try to help solve the problem or offer some real suggestion.

All they want is to talk by themselves and vent. It's better to not interfere - unless it's affecting you and your position in the process.

Far better to receive praise and compliments from those who admire the pretend perfect self they promote in the public eye.

Spot on.
This is an interesting topic (the sides and who is on whose side), I have to say. Never thought about it more before. I guess I got used to it so much that I considered it normal.

[Pook075]

Oh yes, this is so true.

I've bitten my tongue far too much for the very same reason.

But here's the thing- is that the right move?  My BPD wife used to get so angry that she'd often scream at me and start swinging, throwing things at my head, etc.  So without even realizing it, I began to walk on eggshells and put my own needs/feelings to the side.  

Good news- we didn't fight in 10 years.  

Bad news- my wife became so distant and depressed, our marriage fell apart.

Not that I'm blaming myself or trying to blame anyone else here for the failures in your marriage, but there has to be more of a happy medium where adult conversations can take place.  And figuring that out might not help us a whole heck of a lot, but it could be invaluable for the folks that come after us in this community.

One thing I'll note, my BPD daughter finally took therapy seriously and we now have a great relationship.  When she messes up, I can call her on it and she takes the feedback constructively, without becoming over-emotional, because she trusts me completely.  Maybe I'm just painted ultra-white and I don't see what happens with others, but it's very refreshing to know that there is hope of the dynamics changing.  For my kid, it was just hitting rock bottom and being tired of always hurting, always off-balance, so she got serious about changing and she has a great life now.