Navigating separation

[Ben D]

My wife of 6 years and I recently separated (her choice) because she met someone else and wanted to pursue a relationship with him. Over the past year she split with me as he became her "FP". He was the main positive relationship in her life while she considered me to be her main negative relationship. It never mattered what i did, or how amazing i was to her, she wasn't able to feel anything positive for me with him in her life.

Fast forward to now, I'm working on understanding her more, and trying to navigate this separation in hopes of reconciling. I'm working on myself and trying to regain my sense of self, and masculinity that she destroyed through our marriage while also trying to pay attention to her triggers and improve the image she has of me. One main problem between us is that she would blame me for literally anything that happened and would get upset if i didnt take accountability for something i had no control over. Tonight one of her makeup brushes went missing at the house (Im living in an apartment) and she called me and told me it was my fault and when i said it wasn't she said this is why I can't be with you, you never take accountability for anything. I'm looking for help on how to respond to not only stand up for myself, but also pay attention to her triggers and not make things worse

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[kells76]

Hi Ben D, welcome to the group; we're glad you found us.

You're dealing with something so common here -- blame, blame, and more blame. It's good that in all of that, you're able to identify that you want to balance caring for your W with not taking responsibility for things that aren't your responsibility, and you'd ideally like to do that without inflaming the situation.

One non-intuitive thing we can learn here is that when we're communicating with a pwBPD, normal ways of communicating and resolving conflict often don't work, and can make things worse. For example, in a typical conflict or misunderstanding with a "generally normal" person, it can actually help when we explain to that person what happened, or when we clarify what was going on on our end, or when we defend our intentions.

However, to a pwBPD, those approaches usually don't turn down the heat, much like you experienced with the missing makeup brush interaction -- not only did it not seem to matter that you tried to explain to her logically how you could not possibly have done that, in fact, that very explanation probably seemed to escalate things on her end.

Have you had a chance to check out our Tools and skills workshops yet? The first one I thought of when reading your post was the one on Don't "JADE" (justify, argue, defend, explain). Take a look and let us know your thoughts on it. I'm thinking it could be a good starting point because of your focus on controlling what is under your control to not make things worse.

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And one last question -- during this separation, have either of you had a counselor, either individual or couples? If so, how's that going?

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Fill us in whenever works best for you;

kells76

[Ben D]

Thank you for your reply.

During separation I have started therapy to help cope with things and deal with the grief. I have also been reading and basically trying anything I can to work on myself and also better understand her. She hasn't done any kind of counseling/therapy. Shes currently doing a DBT workbook on her own and reading as well but thats all. We tried couples counseling a year ago but it didn't pan out because she didn't want to go.

Also, I haven't checked out the tools, but thats the first thing im doing after i finish this reply!

[Ben D]

Today is a hard one because something is clearly bothering her, and although I don’t think I did anything, it’s hard to tell if it’s me or something else that has her down. Normally if we were together I’d just be doing what I could to help, but I also know I’d be asking her if I did anything, and hovering, and trying to fix it when I know I can’t. Considering we’re now separated im trying to fight the urge to fix it and help, but do I do anything more than just let her know I’m here if she needs me? Probably a bad idea to ask if it’s something I did right?

[kells76]

Hi again;

Thank you for your reply.

During separation I have started therapy to help cope with things and deal with the grief. I have also been reading and basically trying anything I can to work on myself and also better understand her. She hasn't done any kind of counseling/therapy. Shes currently doing a DBT workbook on her own and reading as well but thats all. We tried couples counseling a year ago but it didn't pan out because she didn't want to go.

Also, I haven't checked out the tools, but thats the first thing im doing after i finish this reply!

Good to hear you have a T. What's his/her background with BPD in relationships?

Curious if you know how your W found a DBT workbook? Does your W think she has BPD?

Today is a hard one because something is clearly bothering her, and although I don’t think I did anything, it’s hard to tell if it’s me or something else that has her down. Normally if we were together I’d just be doing what I could to help, but I also know I’d be asking her if I did anything, and hovering, and trying to fix it when I know I can’t. Considering we’re now separated im trying to fight the urge to fix it and help, but do I do anything more than just let her know I’m here if she needs me? Probably a bad idea to ask if it’s something I did right?

Fill me in about how you know something's bothering her -- I read that you separated, but are you living in the same house still? Or is she texting you, or...?

One of the many tricky things about BPD is that people with BPD can have a "feelings equal facts" approach to life. The way that looks is that for "generally normal" people, first we look out at the world and take in some facts about it, and then we notice some feelings inside ourselves (oversimplified, but the gist of it). However, for pwBPD, it doesn't work that way. Instead (again, greatly simplified), they notice a feeling inside themselves, and because they struggle to have a sense of being a self, they look for an outside cause of that feeling. It can be uncomfortable to have an upsetting feeling inside without a cause, and because pwBPD also struggle with shame, a pwBPD may not be able to say "well, I guess I just feel upset right now, and maybe that's just me". The pwBPD might seek out something external on which to pin that feeling, no matter what the external thing (or person) is.

So, there is not necessarily the logical direction of "first, this bad thing happened to me, then, I felt upset about it". Instead, a pwBPD has inner feelings, then may try to pin those on whatever's convenient, even if there is no connection whatsoever. We can get lost in trying to figure out "what did I do" or "she must be upset about ABC", but because BPD is a mental health disorder, there is not necessarily orderly connection between the facts on the ground and the feelings inside.

It's good that you're recognizing that hovering, overfunctioning, and trying to fix her feelings aren't ultimately healthy approaches 

I think there are other routes to try. Can you tell us a little more about exactly what she says, and I bet we can go from there?

[Ben D]

My therapist specializes in BPD. Not bpd in relationships but it’s a start.
My W was diagnosed with BPD when she was a teenager. She’s known about DBT but didn’t want to do therapy so she started there. It wasn’t until recently, after deciding she wanted to separate that she made the step to start DBT

I could tell something was bothering her because when I dropped the kids off today to go to work she was really down, and we’ve been together for 10 years so it’s easy to tell. I did ask her if everything was okay, and she said she wasn’t doing well. So I basically at that point said is there anything I can do and she said no. We have very little communication throughout the way it is now but for the most part it’s felt as if she was almost avoiding me today.

I know what you mean about seeking something to pin her feelings on. For the last year, with someone new in her life, anytime she had any negative feelings she pinned it on me because she didn’t know what else/who else to blame for them. She even said at one point she was unhappy but didn’t think it was me making her unhappy, it was her brain blaming me because I was the most common denominator, I was always there when she was unhappy. But essentially I think that’s what lead to the separation. She felt like I was the one making her unhappy

[kells76]

OK, this helps fill out your situation -- thanks for the background.

My therapist specializes in BPD. Not bpd in relationships but it’s a start.
My W was diagnosed with BPD when she was a teenager. She’s known about DBT but didn’t want to do therapy so she started there. It wasn’t until recently, after deciding she wanted to separate that she made the step to start DBT

Good that your T has some BPD knowledge, that can help.

When in your relationship did your W share with you that she has dBPD (diagnosed BPD)? How did that go?

It's good that she is open to doing DBT with the knowledge that she has BPD -- maybe even though she is low-skill at commitment right now, she could build some skills via DBT to help her navigate marriage more effectively. The fact that she, at least on the surface, doesn't seem allergic to DBT could be a plus.

What does your T think about the fact that your W trying DBT? (Or, at least, that she is telling you that she is trying DBT)?

I could tell something was bothering her because when I dropped the kids off today to go to work she was really down, and we’ve been together for 10 years so it’s easy to tell. I did ask her if everything was okay, and she said she wasn’t doing well. So I basically at that point said is there anything I can do and she said no. We have very little communication throughout the way it is now but for the most part it’s felt as if she was almost avoiding me today.

She may be avoiding you as a low-skill way to regulate her emotions. Maybe she's overwhelmed, but instead of being able to articulate that (which takes a balance of logical and emotional mind), she chooses to distance instead. It might not be personal that she isn't saying "Hey babe, I'm having a rough time, so I'm going to take care of myself and be off the phone until about 6pm today, and I'll text you then"; I'm suspecting instead the BPD "skills deficit" of low-skill coping mechanisms.

When she says she isn't doing well, have you ever tried an approach like "that sounds really difficult... I'm here for you" or other non-fixing approaches? How do you think that would go?

Some pwBPD are sensitive enough that even a "helping" response like "what can I do to help" might read as "you are broken and incapable and therefore I must do things for you". Not saying that's anyone's intent or read of the situation, more putting that out there as food for thought. You know your W best; do you think it might hit that way for her?

And how old are your kids?

I know what you mean about seeking something to pin her feelings on. For the last year, with someone new in her life, anytime she had any negative feelings she pinned it on me because she didn’t know what else/who else to blame for them. She even said at one point she was unhappy but didn’t think it was me making her unhappy, it was her brain blaming me because I was the most common denominator, I was always there when she was unhappy. But essentially I think that’s what lead to the separation. She felt like I was the one making her unhappy

That is really difficult. What you do have control over on your end is how much you internalize/believe it when she gets that way. What's that process been like for you -- i.e., at the start, did you "believe" it more? How does that compare to now?

...

Lots of questions, I know. Glad you're here talking through stuff;

kells76

[livednlearned]

I'm looking for help on how to respond to not only stand up for myself, but also pay attention to her triggers and not make things worse

It's a bit different with a separation because it's kind of like a break-up but worse. She's making bids (I hate you/don't leave me) in her own BPD way and gets her hand bit (in her mind)

Her: I couldn't find my make-up brush (It's important to me, I need it to look/feel good)
You: <blink blink>
Her: You put it somewhere and now I can't find it (I'm upset, when I'm upset it's hard to figure out what's causing it)
You: I did not. Stop blaming me (standing up for yourself)
Her: ! (you're mean to me / why can't you help me feel better)

She's speaking emotion but she's wrapping it in logic. This makes these small interactions confusing.

Her: I couldn't find my make-up brush (It's important to me, I need it to look/feel good)
You: Oh no. Yeah, that's not good. I hate when I can't find things. (feeling empathy, validating her)
Her: You put it somewhere and now I can't find it (I'm upset, when I'm upset it's hard to figure out what's causing it)
You: I understand, it's hard when things aren't where they were. I'll take a look here.
Her: You put it somewhere, say it!
You: I understand the feeling, I've felt that way too. I'll take a look here.
Her: You're always taking my stuff and hiding it or losing it.
You: Yeah, I would be upset too if I thought someone took my stuff.
Her: You TOOK IT 
You: Is there something I can do to help? I'd like to help if I can. Want to give me a call in 15 minutes and let me know what you think?

Or whatever makes sense for you two. Sometimes I can get my pwBPD to lighten up with humor but not always. Depends on whether she's below a 5. If she's 5 or above it's different.

You: I'll take a look here. You know me, I like to powder this beautiful face before I go anywhere.

Sometimes, if she's not too dysregulated, you can lead to problem-solving.

You: Maybe we can think about where you got it (reminds her you used to do stuff together, or were together when she bought it) and order another one?

Thoughts on whether any of this might work in your situation?

[Ben D]

OK, this helps fill out your situation -- thanks for the background.

Good that your T has some BPD knowledge, that can help.

When in your relationship did your W share with you that she has dBPD (diagnosed BPD)? How did that go?

It's good that she is open to doing DBT with the knowledge that she has BPD -- maybe even though she is low-skill at commitment right now, she could build some skills via DBT to help her navigate marriage more effectively. The fact that she, at least on the surface, doesn't seem allergic to DBT could be a plus.

What does your T think about the fact that your W trying DBT? (Or, at least, that she is telling you that she is trying DBT)?

My W shared that part of her life very early, a few years into our relationship. The symptoms were mild then but I did a little bit of research just to familiarize myself with it. I thought I knew enough at the time because like I said the symptoms were mild. But when they escalated later (post kids) time and every day stress of life made it hard to take that step back and continue the needed education on her bpd and it lead to a lot of problems.

My therapist is optimistic that shes trying dbt. but she thinks that the timing isnt the best for her. She thinks it wouldve been better for her to see a therapist and work on some of the things that were causing issues between us and try to better that negative image of me before doing something like dbt that really requires you to step back and outline the relationships in your life. She thought that doing the workbook alone could cause more skewed results but at the end of the day they're still her feelings, and shes putting in the work to better herself one way or another

She may be avoiding you as a low-skill way to regulate her emotions. Maybe she's overwhelmed, but instead of being able to articulate that (which takes a balance of logical and emotional mind), she chooses to distance instead. It might not be personal that she isn't saying "Hey babe, I'm having a rough time, so I'm going to take care of myself and be off the phone until about 6pm today, and I'll text you then"; I'm suspecting instead the BPD "skills deficit" of low-skill coping mechanisms.

When she says she isn't doing well, have you ever tried an approach like "that sounds really difficult... I'm here for you" or other non-fixing approaches? How do you think that would go?

Some pwBPD are sensitive enough that even a "helping" response like "what can I do to help" might read as "you are broken and incapable and therefore I must do things for you". Not saying that's anyone's intent or read of the situation, more putting that out there as food for thought. You know your W best; do you think it might hit that way for her?

And how old are your kids?

That is really difficult. What you do have control over on your end is how much you internalize/believe it when she gets that way. What's that process been like for you -- i.e., at the start, did you "believe" it more? How does that compare to now?


Lots of questions, I know. Glad you're here talking through stuff;

kells76

That was the approach i took when she told me she wasn't doing well. I said i'm here for you if you need someone to talk to. but i did also say is there anything i can do. Its possible, especially if i was the root of the emotions she was feeling, that shed take it negatively like that yes.

Our kids are 3 and 5.

I never really believed that i was to blame, but more so believed that i had to take the blame, if that makes sense. I knew when I couldn't have possibly been the reason for what she was feeling, but there were times I said "you're right, i shouldn't have done that" just because it was easier than starting a fight. But there's been plenty of times I got defensive also, and it escalated way further than it ever shouldve