Concerned this is BPD

[seeingit]

Hi, concerned my wife may have BPD.  Was told by a therapist that worked with us both I should research this and listen to Walking On Eggshells book.  Using this as somewhat of a journal for the first post too.  Appreciate insight into if suspicions are correct, next steps, and how to best help her while also protecting myself and our (her) adult son.

This is my 2nd marriage, her fifth.  Met through mutual friends, whirlwind romance, eloped four months later, and are 4.5 years into marriage now - having a new house and business together as well.

I was in a 25 year abusive marriage with spouse who I learned had BPD, Bipolar, and NPD.  I had 4.5 years of psychiatric therapy, and 'thought' I had addressed my co-dependency after leaving that relationship.  (Spoiler alert - I didn't)

Dating was amazing, although looking back I can see red flags I ignored now.  She was very reactive a few times, like extreme jealousy, but then was also amazingly supportive, considerate, respectful, etc.  Very trusting - she was doing a major home renovation and asked for my advice, and then stepping into the project, within a month of dating.  We had three big fights during this time -- and these became my fault, with me 'stepping up' afterwards (hello co-dependency).  My five year dating plan went out the window as she shared how she planned to get married that year, and would talk about how much she wanted to get married, then also why she had doubts around marrying me -- then back to how amazing our life was going be, how much she loved me, etc.  (Wow, typing this out is very clarifying...)

Wedding day was amazing, beautiful, spectacular.  She was incredible, we felt so connected, everything flowed, and she was so loving and respectful.  I was on cloud 9.

Wedding night was hell, with her accusing me of being a pedophile, homosexual, and tricking her because she got triggered.  I stayed and enduring about 2.5 hours of this before it escalated and I eventually slapped her over an incredibly cruel comment she made.  (Again, my lack of boundaries at staying).  It escalated more before 'burning out', her withdrawing, my staying up wondering what the hell happened.

Next day, she's completely refocused, calling counselors, lining up help to 'save our marriage'.  Telling me how much she loves me, I was triggered by my past, she is 'committed to us'.  She did own her triggers, and said she would work on them.

However, for months afterwards, it was all about me changing, and she would sometimes bring up 'how I slapped her' on our wedding night.  I finally asked her if she remembered (or took any ownership) for what led up to this part, and she did not.  It was as if she completely disassociated from her actions leading up to me slapping her, and I honestly believe her memories of that night are spotty/erased between the glass of wine before we went to our room, me slapping her, and her waking up the next morning.

This turned out to be a later theme when she would drink.  She'd freak out -taking my car keys and running around our property at night, throwing my clothes in the pool, calling me names, stabbing the door to a room I'd locked myself in with an ice pick -- and then completely forget all of it in the morning.  I thought it was related to her drinking, asked her to stop/limit drinking multiple times, but after a few months she would drink again, and these explosions would come back.

Underneath this was a constant complaint about my strength, romantic focus, and 'protection' of her.  This was woven from the wedding night and grew over 4.5 years, with us hiring coaches to help me become more 'solid' so she could trust me more.  Most coaching was on me being more solid, claiming her, letting her know I was not leaving and she could trust me, etc.  It helped temporarily, then it seemed I could never be 'solid' enough for her.

Her complaints became a major problem in the marriage, and she sought out help as well from many coaches - finally finding EMDR therapy.  This started to shift things, and she would come back from EMDR therapy apologizing for her actions and what was going to be different.  I've seen a lot of positive changes from EMDR - she's nearly stopped drinking, and I comment she's poured more alcohol down their drain then she's drank in the last 4 months.  We started having some deeper conversations before I started EMDR...

I started EMDR at another therapist for my own past, and after 2 months, felt a light switch had been turned on inside my brain.  What I perceive as complaints, control, and manipulation is incredibly apparent to me now.  I started calling this out when I saw it -- when I was being talked over, when she was raising her voice or cursing at me, when I felt I was being manipulated or controlled.  In short, boundaries.  This has thrown a major wrench in our relationship, and fights (with no drinking on her part) have escalated faster than before.  I've called for more time-outs, walked away to reduce the pressure, and spent a lot of nights at hotels.  I haven't enforced my boundaries perfectly and in the early days got caught up in the escalation, and have gotten petty as well at times, so willing to call my own fouls that I have been learning how to enforce boundaries in this relationship.

Our relationship is now very rocky.  While she would threaten divorce or separation several times every month since we married (and I was told this was her trauma, and she just needed time to trust me), it has escalated recently, and I am concerned.  I left my job to build the business with her, she has resources that she'll be OK, but I am currently looking for a job.  She stopped performing her sales role in the business (telling her coach that she 'burnt the business down because I wasn't paying attention to her), so our income has been heavily impacted.  The 'paying attention to her' has been another chronic complaint, with demands for more and more of my time.

What's so fascinating in writing this out is that I've extracted the 'crazy' part first, and this timeline does appear totally insane as I read it.  Yet, woven into this same timeline is an amazing, incredible woman that I love deeply.  Playful, sexy, smart, successful, caring, compassionate, charismatic, loving, respectful, encouraging, and more.  There's a lot of that interspersed between this darker timeline.  She's a woman that is so easy to be around, that we can both be ourselves, find joy in the smallest things, and love so deeply.  I see the amazing work she does in the community, the magic she brings to our house, and the depth she can bring to any relationship.  I see how much she loves her son, the lengths she will go to deepen our relationship, the effort she will put into whatever she puts her mind to.  I love her, and I truly believe she loves me too as I see her trying anything and everything to heal and grow.

It's almost like this white thread and black thread are woven together in our timeline -- which actually makes me seem like I'm only seeing in black and white when I write this!

So this is what I'd call the 'background crazy' that's been in our relationship.  We both had our baggage coming into the marriage, and while I didn't fully understand my own childhood trauma, the trauma she's shared with me about her life has been 10x mine.  Horrifying abuse from an early age through just a few years before we met, with memories she'll share occasionally.  I've wrapped her up in my arms as she's cried and trembled, her body unwinding as she remembers some of this.  EMDR has not been easy but helped her tremendously -- and I see an incredibly brave woman who is willing to address her past head-on in her desire to grow and improve herself and our relationship.

So, prior to tonight - ups and downs, some hope from EMDR although more fights as I've implemented boundaries (with my therapist's and coach's help), less drinking and blackouts on her side.  Way more stress on her body - while I have tension, she's had a huge somatic response with her talking about major stress in her muscles, sleeping way less than before, and stomach upset.  She's also talked about 'feeling empty' typically with a waving reference around her belly/solar plexus area.  This stress has 'all been my fault' by the way.

I tried taking her to a counselor training in DBT who could also determine if she did or didn't have BPD, but that was a bust.  She refused to return after the first visit, and said DBT was too basic for her and only needed for people with BPD, which she didn't have.  Been working with her on alternate counselors, and she agreed to share her EMDR counselor with me today (she created a major issue with me seeing my prior EMDR therapist due to the boundaries thing - too long to explain in this thread)


Tonight, things took a big turn.  After meeting with her EMDR therapist, which we both were very hopeful about being a step in the right direction, we went out for lunch.  She was making comments about her being the only person working on this relationship, she was the only one trying, etc.  I attempted to redirect to other conversation.  Big mistake on my part -- she later shared she expected me to tell her how much I appreciated her, how I honored her trying so hard, and owning my shortcomings and agreeing to step up more.

This became a 'hushed public fight' at the restaurant, continued upset discussion on the drive home, and her telling me to leave the house for the night.  After she continued following me around the house (and into my office) telling me to leave for the night, I left.  The pattern then started of blowing up my phone with texts/calls.  When I'd answer, got the alternating 'how could you leave me' and 'you're a horrible person for leaving, stay away', 'this was it, it's over now' -- the normal pattern we seem to follow when I leave.

Difference tonight - after texting a '911' and telling me to return home urgently for an emergency when I called back, I got home and she started talking about installing cameras everywhere, that 'people were watching me', acting as if speaking to these people directly (turning her head to one side and asking 'did you get that?' into thin air), and repeating 'why don't you kill us both and put us out of our misery?'  She's also started repeating that I am a narcissist and have a personality disorder.

I left, typing this up from a safe space nearby.

So lots here, and realized this was as much a post as a journal from me, which was very helpful alone.

My questions to anyone are:

- This sure seems like BPD to me.  How do I get this verified, get her help, and will this even help if she knows the diagnosis?  From reading "walking on eggshells", it seems her knowing she has BPD may not actually help her.

- I have a good support network of coaches, family, friends I did not have in my first relationship.  While stressful, I'm in a far different place than before.  What else do I need to be thinking about to protect myself?

- Any advice on how to re-direct or respond to these fights -- especially given the bizarre behavior tonight?  I'm concerned because I read about the high suicide rate associated with BPD, yet very concerned about my own safety - physically and financially -- so felt safer leaving tonight.  Leaving triggers her abandonment cycle (jumps on me, clings to me, I put down bag, hops down and curses at me) yet I don't feel safe at home given tonight's turn.  What else do I need to be doing to ensure our safety?

- What should my realistic exceptions for improvement be?  I've seen a lot of changes from our EMDR work -- on both sides -- and have hope continuing this in a more controlled fashion would be helpful.  But I feel it is harder for me to be patient, calm, and 'the grown up' (for lack of a better term) consistently when things escalate.  I'm feel like I'm left with leaving to maintain my composure (trigger her abandonment) or staying until I eventually break down or snap.  Will EMDR give a chance at a long-term relationship for us?  Or am I being delusional?

- Finally, what other resources should I be looking at?  What techniques, books, podcasts, etc?  We are both very open to alternative approaches, so open to energetic work, recent psychedelic research, etc. if this would help. 

Appreciate anyone who reads this novel! TY for simply having a space where I could share this and journal to collect my thoughts.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cat Familiar]

DO NOT TELL HER YOU THINK SHE HAS BPD!

People who suffer from BPD deal with self-loathing and shame, which they often project on other people. No good will come from telling her, and often therapists refrain from sharing this diagnosis for the same reason. You’ve already seen that she refused to participate in DBT as she *knows* she doesn’t have BPD.

BPD is a disorder of thinking and feeling. It’s not something that can be alleviated through medication or *cured* through psychotherapy or other alternatives. Basically, it’s a deficiency in being able to process thoughts and emotions, a deficit that occurred in childhood at a point when most of us learned to be able to keep our emotions in check long enough to let our thinking guide our behavior.

That said, DBT if practiced for an extended period of time, can establish new learned responses that are much healthier. It’s not a quick fix.

The best thing you can do is to become aware of your own responses and behaviors and lessen the emotional intensity in the relationship. There’s not much you can do when she explodes, so best to exit the situation as soon as practical.

Regarding your questions: you cannot get her help unless she wants it, and most people with BPD don’t want *help* and even suggesting it, is triggering their shame.

Protecting yourself is your number one priority. False claims of abuse and physical harm are very common with people with BPD.

If you are worried about her being suicidal, if she threatens it—call the authorities. This is above your pay grade.

To my knowledge, EMDR can be helpful with unwinding trauma (I’ve done it) but it cannot teach her remedial thinking/feeling strategies.

Check out the Tools at the top of this page. Under this heading, you will see Book Reviews and there are many which can be very helpful in your learning process.

Should she have BPD, and already you’ve had some indication from a therapist that this may be the case, and the history you’ve detailed certainly suggests the possibility, you will need to come to the acceptance that this will never be a *normal* relationship. However you can greatly improve things by learning some new communication strategies.

I highly recommend “Don’t be Invalidating” (found under the Tools banner) as well as don’t JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) which are two easy to learn tools that certainly have helped me maintain the peace in my relationship.

[livednlearned]

seeingit,

I'm rushing off and can't say much but wanted to welcome you and invite you to pull up a chair. This is a great community for the kind of relationship you're in. There's so much to gain from learning from people who have walked in your shoes and then some.

In the NEA-BPD Family Connections workshops they are fond of saying that you cannot change someone with BPD, but you can change you, and that can influence change in the relationship.

A book I recommend is The High-Conflict Couple by Alan Fruzetti. It's written for people who both have PDs, but don't let that distract you. Even though you don't have a PD, it's not uncommon for many of us to develop traits when we're in volatile relationships. A lot of the suggested tips are DBT-based and frankly, I think it develops empathy when we try the tools ourselves and imagine how they might work for someone with even greater emotional lability.