Why do people keep holding on?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hello everyone!

I stumbled upon this forum and while reading members' posts, there is a question that keeps smacking me across the face - with every single post I read.

Why? Why do you keep holding on to these abusive relationships? Why accept back people who cheated on you with who you thought to be your best friend, kicked you out of the house, moved to another country and blocked you, are blackmailing you, and so on and so forth?

I understand this is a forum for people engaging with people with BPD but I can't stop but wonder:

Does this person not have any self worth? (And I'm not saying it in a judge-y type of way.) Do they really like the abuse? Do they care so much about the other person that they are willing to sell themselves, their happiness, their self-respect, their worth, just to be with someone who would make their life hell regardless of how well they (the abused) can communicate and navigate the relationship?

I feel like any emotionally healthy person would just run for the hills when they encounter some of the situations I've read around here. And also, don't you feel that by keeping on, you are encouraging the other person to keep abusing you? Because at the end of the day, the abused sends the message that they will never leave - so why should the abuser go out of their way to stop abusing? Especially since change requires effort and I don't know many people who are willing to put in effort for people they don't respect.

I'm just curious. I'm in no way coming at this from a judgmental standpoint but I am incredibly curious why people put up with this. And yeah, I get it, I love her/him... but I love myself more. Unfortunately both don't work together. I can't say I love myself if I am setting myself up for abuse every single moment of my existence - regardless if I can handle it or not.

Some mentions:

1. I hope I posted this in the right part of the forum. I wanted it to be as far "away" as possible from the boards where people are discussing their actual problems, so as to not interfere with that.

2. Just wanted to reinforce that I'm not judging. I would like a civil, healthy, and mature dialogue with people who want to engage - if possible.

3. Last but not least, there is something I truly appreciated with every single reply. The willingness to help others, warmth, and real empathy in this community. Unlike other forums, the people who make up BPDFamily can proudly call themselves a community (in my humble opinion).

Thanks and looking forward to chat.

[sqlres]

Hello everyone!

I stumbled upon this forum and while reading members' posts, there is a question that keeps smacking me across the face - with every single post I read.

Why? Why do you keep holding on to these abusive relationships? Why accept back people who cheated on you with who you thought to be your best friend, kicked you out of the house, moved to another country and blocked you, are blackmailing you, and so on and so forth?

I understand this is a forum for people engaging with people with BPD but I can't stop but wonder:

Does this person not have any self worth? (And I'm not saying it in a judge-y type of way.) Do they really like the abuse? Do they care so much about the other person that they are willing to sell themselves, their happiness, their self-respect, their worth, just to be with someone who would make their life hell regardless of how well they (the abused) can communicate and navigate the relationship?

I feel like any emotionally healthy person would just run for the hills when they encounter some of the situations I've read around here. And also, don't you feel that by keeping on, you are encouraging the other person to keep abusing you? Because at the end of the day, the abused sends the message that they will never leave - so why should the abuser go out of their way to stop abusing? Especially since change requires effort and I don't know many people who are willing to put in effort for people they don't respect.

I'm just curious. I'm in no way coming at this from a judgmental standpoint but I am incredibly curious why people put up with this. And yeah, I get it, I love her/him... but I love myself more. Unfortunately both don't work together. I can't say I love myself if I am setting myself up for abuse every single moment of my existence - regardless if I can handle it or not.

Some mentions:

1. I hope I posted this in the right part of the forum. I wanted it to be as far "away" as possible from the boards where people are discussing their actual problems, so as to not interfere with that.

2. Just wanted to reinforce that I'm not judging. I would like a civil, healthy, and mature dialogue with people who want to engage - if possible.

3. Last but not least, there is something I truly appreciated with every single reply. The willingness to help others, warmth, and real empathy in this community. Unlike other forums, the people who make up BPDFamily can proudly call themselves a community (in my humble opinion).

Thanks and looking forward to chat.

[HappyChappy]

It's complex, but in my case the BPD is my mother, so a toddler can't "run for the hills" rapidly crawl, maybe. The behaviour is well hidden, so you’re reading peoples hindsight, i.e. those that did crack the code. When folk first come to this site, they're also often traumatised. But it's done slowly over time (like propaganda) so hard to notice.

Part of the manipulation is to encourage low self esteem in those they try to control by projecting blame back onto them. Which, with respect, is how your post could be read. I trust that wasn't your intention because you said "it's not a judge-y" but I hope you can see how that might deter people from answering your post.
 

Hello everyone,
... I can't stop but wonder:

Does this person not have any self worth? (And I'm not saying it in a judge-y type of way.) Do they really like the abuse? Do they care so much about the other person that they are willing to sell themselves, their happiness, their self-respect ...

I feel like any emotionally healthy person would just run for the hills ...

Jimmy Savile (believe to have a PD) had over 589 child victims and was watched by over 40 million a week on TV programmes about helping kids. Raised millions for children's charities and wrote a "stranger danger" book. He got an OBE and  was honoured with a Papal knighthood. Yet people say "He even looks like a paedophile". So it's only obvious in hindsight.
 
Dr Shipley over 300 murders, under the watchful eye of the NHS an organisation trained to save lives and keep audit trails. Hilter, Trump, Putin all sold "false news" to the masses. So if they can do this to the masses, much easier if you just target individuals.

You say you want a "civil, healthy mature dialogue", I'm not on here often, so this is just a reply. But I'd recommended reading "Walking on egg shells" or any of the other books recommended on here. That will explain better than just asking any old HappyChappy. Hope that helps.

[Pook075]

In short, I think people keep holding on because they love the person with BPD, even when they can't see a path forward.  The other side of that may be because when things were good, they were really really good and they're hoping to rekindle that part of the relationship.  Others may feel obligated to hold on for faith-based reasons.

We could honestly have the same discussion about why people decide to let go- none of this is black and white because it deals with love and emotions, pain and betrayal.  Then there's the mental health factor, the person is sick and deserves compassion.  It's a complicated topic that takes quite a while to sort out in our own minds.

[zondolit]

I ask myself this question a lot. A few of the reasons I stayed in an unhealthy marriage so long:
1. I didn't even know it was abusive for a long time, believe it or not. He'd convinced me I was the problem.
2. I held out hope our marriage would get better.
3. I didn't want my children to have divorced parents.
4. I thought I could handle it.
5. I didn't want to be divorced.
6. I thought I could help him.

[Skip]

The First Layer

A first layer of the reasons for staying in an abusive relationship is practical, even if they are not always rational. Some abused people feel they cannot leave their relationships because they are economically dependent on them. For instance, an abused stay-at-home mother may feel that she cannot leave her abusive relationship because if she did, she would have no way of providing for her children. Other abused people stay because they believe that is the proper thing to do, given their religious or cultural background. Some practicing Catholic people, for example, believe that divorce is a bad thing to be avoided at most all costs. They may be motivated to put up with a lot of spousal abuse because the alternative is to go against the teachings of their church. Still other abused people may rationalize staying in abusive relationships because they think it is the right thing to do for their children. They might say to themselves, "If it was just me, I'd leave this marriage, but my children will be better off coming from an intact home than from a divorced one". This may not be a rational position to take in all cases; the children may be in fact far more damaged by staying in proximity to an abusive father than they would be by being raised by a single mother. However, regardless of the truth of any of these rationalizations, the believe that they are true is more powerful than whether or not they are really true.

The Second Layer

A second layer of reasons for why people stay in abusive relationships is uncovered by learning about the so-called "cycle of abuse." In a typical instance of domestic abuse (where one partner is abusive towards the other), abuse tends to occur periodically (cyclically), rather than constantly (all the time). There is no clear beginning to the cycle of abuse, but for purposes of describing it, we can start at an arbitrary stage along its progression. Something event occurs, whether real or only imagined by the abuser, that generates feelings of anger or even rage. These feelings then lead to the second stage of the cycle, which is where the actual abusive behavior occurs. Such behavior may be verbal, physical, emotional/mental, or sexual in nature. If the cycle stopped here and stayed constant, most victims would find it very easy to leave and not endure abuse for long periods of time. However, shortly after the abusive event occurs, the abuser frequently expresses remorse or guilt and wants to apologize. The abuser will swear, "It will never happen again" and may shower the victim with gifts and demands that the victim forgive him or her. There may be so-called "makeup sex" which can be quite pleasurable and provide the victim with a sense that he or she is valued, and really loved. In a parent/child abusive relationship, guilt over abuse may be expressed as special privileges or gifts for the child victim. Following the guilt and making up stage comes a "honeymoon" or latency period during which things are good for a while between the partners. Inevitably, in truly abusive relationships, the latency period ends with the beginning of another abuse episode; the abuser again feels angry, disrespected or treated poorly in some way and the cycle starts all over again.

Though such cyclical abuse is repetitive and predictable, it is also intermittent, and the rest of the relationship might be perceived as good enough or even loving. In this context, victims often rationalize that they aren't really being abused, that their partner really loves them despite being abusive and that makes it okay, that the abuse really isn't all that bad, and other similar statements. Victims are motivated to generate excuses their abuser, to think of each abuse episode as a "one time" thing (even when it isn't), and to focus on the good aspects of the relationship (particularly those positive things that during the guilt/latency phase of the abuse cycle) and convince themselves that the relationship is really a good one and that everyone has some problems in a relationship, i.e., my partner just occasionally loses his/her temper when really stressed at work, etc. Or for those with poor self-esteem, the rationalizations may be thoughts such as “I don’t deserve any better” or “this is the best relationship I’ve had in my life.”

Victims may have any number of low-self-esteem type beliefs that also keep them paralyzed and willing to accept something that is merely "good enough." They may believe that they will be alone forever if they go out on their own. They may believe that they are so damaged that they would only pick another abusive partner anyway so why not stay with this one? They may believe that they don't deserve any better. Abusers may reinforce this lack of self-worth by saying that abuse is normal, that they are over-reacting, etc.

Victims that do try to break away from abusive partners may find that abuse escalates to dangerous proportions. Abusive partners may stalk victims who try to leave them, or otherwise attempt to control their ability to exit the relationship. If they don't threaten  the victim or the children, they may threaten to harm themselves, and by so doing, guilt the victim into feeling sympathy for them and then staying to prevent the threatened suicide from happening.

The combination of internal self-esteem deficit, intermittent actual abuse, makeup sex or other positive attention obtained in the wake of abuse episodes, and escalating threats when the victim tries to get away is enough to convince many victims to stay put. Every time a victim forgives an abuser, that abuser is reinforced for being abusive, and it becomes that much more likely that the abuser will become abusive again in the future. The net effect is that the abuse tends to continue forever.

This truth is frequently lost on both the abuser and the victim, however.

[once removed]

I feel like any emotionally healthy person would just run for the hills

i understand this is a saying, and i dont want to belabor the point (here i go anyway), but i dont think emotionally healthy people "run for the hills". they make assessments. they make decisions. they do so from a place of soundness, not fear. the kind of thing that would cause me to flee is less "all of my ex boyfriends are horrible assholes", and more "i shot my ex husband".

if you arent an emotionally healthy person, and/or youre in a terminally unhealthy situation, by definition, your ability to do make sound decisions is impaired.

its a bit like asking an addict "why dont you see that this is bad for you, and just stop?". emotionally healthy people might pick up a bad habit, realize its a bad habit, and drop it. no one expects that of an addict, for obvious reasons. when the addict indeed reaches that point, its through a long process of introspection, fear facing/pushing past discomfort, and, almost always, help and support getting to steadier ground, from which they can self actualize.

when you find yourself in a hole, and to everyone else it looks like youre still digging, there is usually a lot of "chicken and egg" going on; the problem(s) is usually more complex than "i picked up a bad habit". "still digging" is what you know. it may, in fact, be a form of "running", but to what feels comfortable. the intermittent cycle of abuse certainly reinforces that, for both parties. did you know that domestic violence literature will advise someone in a supportive role not to outright tell, let alone insist, that the victim leave? thats in part because it can trigger that defense mechanism...that tendency to defend, or idealize their partner, or that fear of loss...it can drive them even harder into it. it is also because its an intensely personal decision that a person really needs to reach on their own.

i used to ask myself the same question about people that were abandoned by their parents, and have lifelong issues over it. "why cant they just see that their dad sucks, they were dealt a bad hand, and theyre just as loveable as anyone else?". the answer (or part of it) is self evident. if it were that simple, it would, in most cases, already be done.

members here, at all different stages, go through that process of introspection, fear facing/pushing past discomfort, and help/support. some of them, when they get to steadier ground, determine that the relationship is not just unhealthy, but broken, and they make the hard decision to remove themselves (where literally "running" may be a decision that someone makes because their safety is in danger, but that is something of a different process). some of them, through the same process, turn their relationships around (and ive seen some particularly bad cases do that). some will take longer (   ), and truthfully, some may never get there.

either "leave" or "stay" (not "stay" stuck in the same patterns, but remain in the relationship) may be the emotionally healthiest decision. in relationships such as these, whatever the healthiest decision is, is usually the hardest to reach or make, or it would already have been made.

so, there is no one precise answer to why people keep holding on, or remain in a cycle of abuse. there are general answers, that may apply to any or all, but to know how they apply to any given person, you have to understand both the individual dynamics (the persons involved) and the relationship dynamics. what each brings into the relationship, and how they mesh.

some people keep holding on even after the relationship has ended. i did so because i was afraid to let go.

[GlennT]

  Absolutely awesome and helpful replies ever, since becoming a member here . My Theology professor taught us that God puts something immortal inside  all of our souls, whereby we still feel a need to hope and pray, againest all odds, for a better out-come.

[Lenfan2]

Skip said it perfectly.

[livednlearned]

Why? Why do you keep holding on to these abusive relationships? Why accept back people who cheated on you with who you thought to be your best friend, kicked you out of the house, moved to another country and blocked you, are blackmailing you, and so on and so forth?

Sometimes it is repetition compulsion. We are drawn to a familiar conundrum hoping this time around we can overcome.

We sincerely hope we can fix it and there are often small hopes and signs of improvement.

If we get it right, we believe the reward is immense, a once-in-a-lifetime type achievement.

It is also very compelling to spend a lot of time focused on someone else's very obvious problems because this means ignoring what is painful or missing in ourselves.

I would rather try to work at it and learn what was going on, even in my mistakes, then leave and not figure out why I was in that relationship in the first place.

Staying does not necessarily mean losing if winning is gaining a greater understanding of yourself and what it means to be an effective partner in a relationship.

[Pook075]

i understand this is a saying, and i dont want to belabor the point (here i go anyway), but i dont think emotionally healthy people "run for the hills". they make assessments. they make decisions. they do so from a place of soundness, not fear. the kind of thing that would cause me to flee is less "all of my ex boyfriends are horrible assholes", and more "i shot my ex husband".

if you arent an emotionally healthy person, and/or youre in a terminally unhealthy situation, by definition, your ability to do make sound decisions is impaired.

Here's the thing though, how many of us were emotionally healthy when the relationship began to fall apart?  I would guess almost none of us, because we'd become so accustomed to walking on eggshells that we didn't even realize how poorly things were unfolding.

Looking back, I see some behaviors (from myself, my BPD ex, and my BPD kid) that clearly should have been major alarm bells, yet they weren't.  As time passed I let me own moral compass point more and more in the wrong direction, thinking that if it made others happy then it must be the right thing to do.  And I lost pieces of myself in that process, my healthy ego, my self worth, by allowing others to take advantage of me.

Maybe five or six months out from separating, it's like a veil was lifted and I could see again for the first time in years.  And of course, I reacted poorly and blamed myself...how could I be so dumb?  But that's the thing, I wasn't emotionally healthy and I was working so hard to keep everything together in a broken home, a broken marriage.  I never even considered to stop and think about myself.

[jaded7]

Hello everyone!

I stumbled upon this forum and while reading members' posts, there is a question that keeps smacking me across the face - with every single post I read.

Why? Why do you keep holding on to these abusive relationships? Why accept back people who cheated on you with who you thought to be your best friend, kicked you out of the house, moved to another country and blocked you, are blackmailing you, and so on and so forth?

I understand this is a forum for people engaging with people with BPD but I can't stop but wonder:

Does this person not have any self worth? (And I'm not saying it in a judge-y type of way.) Do they really like the abuse? Do they care so much about the other person that they are willing to sell themselves, their happiness, their self-respect, their worth, just to be with someone who would make their life hell regardless of how well they (the abused) can communicate and navigate the relationship?

I feel like any emotionally healthy person would just run for the hills when they encounter some of the situations I've read around here. And also, don't you feel that by keeping on, you are encouraging the other person to keep abusing you? Because at the end of the day, the abused sends the message that they will never leave - so why should the abuser go out of their way to stop abusing? Especially since change requires effort and I don't know many people who are willing to put in effort for people they don't respect.

I'm just curious. I'm in no way coming at this from a judgmental standpoint but I am incredibly curious why people put up with this. And yeah, I get it, I love her/him... but I love myself more. Unfortunately both don't work together. I can't say I love myself if I am setting myself up for abuse every single moment of my existence - regardless if I can handle it or not.

Some mentions:

1. I hope I posted this in the right part of the forum. I wanted it to be as far "away" as possible from the boards where people are discussing their actual problems, so as to not interfere with that.

2. Just wanted to reinforce that I'm not judging. I would like a civil, healthy, and mature dialogue with people who want to engage - if possible.

3. Last but not least, there is something I truly appreciated with every single reply. The willingness to help others, warmth, and real empathy in this community. Unlike other forums, the people who make up BPDFamily can proudly call themselves a community (in my humble opinion).

Thanks and looking forward to chat.

Because you fall in love the person they pretend to be, which is to say they are supportive and kind and thoughtful and even tempered. They really care about you, they love you.

THEN

They start getting angry, annoyed, upset, with you. Start putting you down and getting 'hurt' by your actions. You've fallen in love with them, you are operating from a place where you believe a person who loves you would not lie to you or tell you something about yourself that's not true. Because you wouldn't do that to them.

It does not register that you are being manipulated. So you take their complaints and ghosting and, if you do dare to question them on THOSE, they then DARVO you back and tell you your'e too sensitive, you're imagining things, you're controlling.

So you think there's something really wrong....with you. And you feel bad for 'hurting' the person you love so much. And you want to keep their love.

So you try harder, try to be more understanding, more compassionate. All the while getting intermittent reinforcement, which is the gold standard for creating addiction.

But you don't know that you're addicted.

[SaltyDawg]

But you don't know that you're addicted.

I do now, it took me 21 years to figure out that I am a "trauma bonded [addicted] codependent caretaker".  Now I have to work on these two decades of trauma, keep my children safe from further damage, and get to a better place.

[Notwendy]

I think this is a great post. I wondered about this with my father and my emotionally, verbally BPD mother. I didn't understand why he just didn't leave and why he tolerated such bebhavior?

It's complicated. One layer, I think, is boundaries and also the dating situation. We all put our best foot forward at the beginning of a relationship. However someone with emotionally healthy boundaries would feel a sense of discomfort with a disordered person who didn't have emotionally healthy boundaries. They may be attracted to someone with BPD but the relationship probably would not last past a few dates.

I think our boundaries were formed early on in our families of origin. If someone is used to being raised in a family with dysfunction, they may not feel that initial discomfort. It may even be an attraction as it feels familiar. The relationship progresses, there's an emotional connection there. Few people are all good or all bad and there may be genuine love there too.

We all "relax" in a more committed relationship. I won't be wearing sweat pants and t shirt on a first date but my husband sees me in them. I also see him at his best, at his worst. It's when the relationship gets comfortable that we all relax some. For the pwBPD- the BPD behaviors impact the closest relationships the most. This gets confusing as the partner sees their pwBPD act wonderful with others and wonders why this isn't happening with them. The pwBPD blames them for it. It's hard to not think it's their fault.

For my father, I think it was a combination of the times- people got married quickly- it was unusual for people to date someone for a long time or cohabitate. Like many women with BPD described here, being gorgeous and charming was my mother's superpower. Dad was smitten. I do wonder when the behaviors became apparent for him. He likely was confused. His reaction was to do what he could to make her happy.

Then came kids and I believe he stayed for us. We grew up and left home but he stayed. I think for him, he knew she was dependent on him. He felt responsible for her. He also loved her. Romantic relationships are different from other ones. We kids were only observers of their relationship. It's impossible to know all that goes on between two people.

Co-dependency and enabling becomes a pattern. The quickest way to stop a conflict with my BPD mother is to give into whatever she wants. This in turn reinforces her behavior to get what she wants. It becomes a mutually reinforced behavioral pattern.

Abuse, and the painted white/black is a cycle. It has an addictive quality. There's also a sort of amnesia to it. When BPD mother is being "good" I second guess myself- did whatever happen really happen- maybe it's me?

[Pook075]

I think this is a great post. I wondered about this with my father and my emotionally, verbally BPD mother. I didn't understand why he just didn't leave and why he tolerated such bebhavior?

It's complicated. One layer, I think, is boundaries and also the dating situation. We all put our best foot forward at the beginning of a relationship. However someone with emotionally healthy boundaries would feel a sense of discomfort with a disordered person who didn't have emotionally healthy boundaries. They may be attracted to someone with BPD but the relationship probably would not last past a few dates.

My situation was fairly unique since I had a raging BPD daughter and a wife that would completely shut down for days or weeks at a time.  The two behaviors looked nothing alike and I was so busy trying to keep my daughter in-line, almost as a single parent at times, I never dreamed my wife could have BPD as well. 

Looking back, my wife raged for the first 2-3 years and then steadily detached over the last twenty, I keep finding myself asking not 'why did I stay', but 'how the heck did I never realize there was such a catastrophic problem in the first place'?

The answer to that is love, I loved my wife and I would never dreamed of abandoning her.  I just kept thinking that although she was always distant, always spent more and more time away from home, that she'd eventually put me first in the relationship once the kids left home.  I just couldn't see what was really happening or understand how dysfunctional it was.  The BPD was there all along, all 23 years, and my wife was probably miserable almost the entirety of our marriage.

But would I change anything if I could go back in time?  I honestly don't think I would, other than to be more loving and understanding when my wife was silently pushing me away.  Dealing with BPD is such a learned set of skills, a learned behavior, that I now realize that I couldn't have done anything differently when I didn't know what the problem was to begin with. 

[jaded7]

I think this is a great post. I wondered about this with my father and my emotionally, verbally BPD mother. I didn't understand why he just didn't leave and why he tolerated such bebhavior?

It's complicated. One layer, I think, is boundaries and also the dating situation. We all put our best foot forward at the beginning of a relationship. However someone with emotionally healthy boundaries would feel a sense of discomfort with a disordered person who didn't have emotionally healthy boundaries. They may be attracted to someone with BPD but the relationship probably would not last past a few dates.

I think our boundaries were formed early on in our families of origin. If someone is used to being raised in a family with dysfunction, they may not feel that initial discomfort. It may even be an attraction as it feels familiar. The relationship progresses, there's an emotional connection there. Few people are all good or all bad and there may be genuine love there too.

We all "relax" in a more committed relationship. I won't be wearing sweat pants and t shirt on a first date but my husband sees me in them. I also see him at his best, at his worst. It's when the relationship gets comfortable that we all relax some. For the pwBPD- the BPD behaviors impact the closest relationships the most. This gets confusing as the partner sees their pwBPD act wonderful with others and wonders why this isn't happening with them. The pwBPD blames them for it. It's hard to not think it's their fault.

For my father, I think it was a combination of the times- people got married quickly- it was unusual for people to date someone for a long time or cohabitate. Like many women with BPD described here, being gorgeous and charming was my mother's superpower. Dad was smitten. I do wonder when the behaviors became apparent for him. He likely was confused. His reaction was to do what he could to make her happy.

Then came kids and I believe he stayed for us. We grew up and left home but he stayed. I think for him, he knew she was dependent on him. He felt responsible for her. He also loved her. Romantic relationships are different from other ones. We kids were only observers of their relationship. It's impossible to know all that goes on between two people.

Co-dependency and enabling becomes a pattern. The quickest way to stop a conflict with my BPD mother is to give into whatever she wants. This in turn reinforces her behavior to get what she wants. It becomes a mutually reinforced behavioral pattern.

Abuse, and the painted white/black is a cycle. It has an addictive quality. There's also a sort of amnesia to it. When BPD mother is being "good" I second guess myself- did whatever happen really happen- maybe it's me?

Thanks Wendy. Good post. You are always so thoughtful and contribute much to the discussion, and therefore to the collective healing.

That last sentence, "I second guess myself-did whatever happen really happen-maybe it's me?" Is precisely what I was getting at in my response.

Patricia Evans covers this confusion very well in her descriptions of Reality I and Reality II. The abuser is living, literally, in a different reality than us. We are judging their actions through our own lens of reality, which for a Reality II person is mutuality and cocreation. Therefore, if our partner gets really mad and say, pulls the car violently off the road and threatens to make you walk home in the rain and dark in mountains, then they must not really mean it, or are having a bad day, or simply doesn't understand your point of view or, or, or.....NO. They need to WIN, they need you to LOSE. And in this case, they are losing the 'argument' in the car, feeling out of control, and escalate to this.

[Notwendy]

Thank you

I like the Patricia Evans books too. I think she makes a good point about that. We operate on a different set of "rules" and this contributes to why we feel confused and taken off guard sometimes.

[HappyChappy]

Staying does not necessarily mean losing if winning is gaining a greater understanding of yourself and what it means to be an effective partner in a relationship.

Too true.

its a bit like asking an addict "why don’t you see that this is bad for you, and just stop?".

Addiction is the only illness where people can shout at you.

Skip said it perfectly.

How many login’s do you have Skip ? (just kidding)

[jaded7]

Thank you

I like the Patricia Evans books too. I think she makes a good point about that. We operate on a different set of "rules" and this contributes to why we feel confused and taken off guard sometimes.

Confusion, I've read (perhaps in Patricia Evans, but definitely in other places from experts) is the key.

Confusion about why they are 'mad'. Confusion about what 'we said'. Confusion about your abilities and skills (I thought I was good at these things, guess not). Confusion about why they are not responding to calls or texts. Confusion about why they got mad at the loving, kind text you sent. Confusion about why they leave for weekends without you. Confusion about why when you offer to help her with something she explodes at you. Confusion about an agreement you had that she doesn't remember. Confusion about why you are criticized for things you don't do. Confusion about how their feelings about you seem to change. Confusion about how you asked her not to show up at your business, three times, and she showed up anyway.

On and on. Confusion is the key. I'm so glad to say that I told her, calmly and lovingly, that her accusations and behavior confused me. Of course, that didn't go well at all...she exploded and accused me of more things, more put downs. But I did something that was good, I expressed myself calmly and lovingly to her.