Does BPD really lessen on its own with age?

[Stasia77]

Hello,
I am new here and have been reading loads (so many incredibly strong, kind, caring, resilient and empathetic people on here, it really moved me) but it struck me that I am yet to come across an account where the BPD person's behaviour improved on its own, with age and no other input (maybe there have been posts but I missed them).
This is something I've read in a few books/sites describing the condition as something observed in several cases, yet it sounded kind of odd...
Any such experiences?

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[Cat Familiar]

Not in my experience. However I’ve learned strategies here which help lessen the impact that BPD has on my life.

[SinisterComplex]

Hello,
I am new here and have been reading loads (so many incredibly strong, kind, caring, resilient and empathetic people on here, it really moved me) but it struck me that I am yet to come across an account where the BPD person's behaviour improved on its own, with age and no other input (maybe there have been posts but I missed them).
This is something I've read in a few books/sites describing the condition as something observed in several cases, yet it sounded kind of odd...
Any such experiences?

First...welcome. Happy to have you here.  So, the thought process that BPD can improve and lessen with age is honestly an outdated ignorant viewpoint (note: I am not saying you are ignorant, so please take no offense...just referring to the thought in general). So I am happy you are coming here to ask this question. BPD is a serious mental disorder and requires intense long-term therapy for recovery. BPD is not curable, but can be treated and there is the possibility that the sufferer can train their mind to the point where their symptoms will no longer qualify for a diagnosis. But, you have to understand the success rate is not high. So it is best to keep tempered expectations.

To kind of back up my comrade Cat...the best thing you can do is to learn techniques to not let BPD affect you. For example, a bpd sufferer is having a bad day and acting out...the best course of action is for you to not engage and to let yourself get roped into it. You have to be firm and indifferent and not allow anything the sufferer says or does affect you personally no matter how upsetting it could potentially make you.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[once removed]

BPD traits may remit with age, yes, but its important to understand what that may or may not mean.

it does not mean that there is a marked personality change, or that a borderline personality style disappears.

bpd traits are on a spectrum of severity. it becomes a disorder when enough of those traits reach a level of severity that causes a certain level of daily suffering for the patient (it doesnt have anything to do with how difficult of a person they are for others).

in other words, lets say you have a patient with a major self harm problem, or an eating disorder, both of which may cause a severe level of daily suffering for the patient. treat either of those things successfully, and a person may no longer qualify for a diagnosis; they may still have pronounced bpd traits, and they may still struggle with daily life and with interpersonal relationships, but wouldnt reach the threshold of "personality disorder".

stress is at the heart of what drives a lot of what we call "bpd behavior". it is a major trigger, and something that people with bpd characteristically do not do well with. for most people in general, including people with bpd traits, stress tends to lose impact as we age. as such, you might see a remission or lessening of symptoms for a person that suffers under stress.

my father had emotional dysregulation issues; i dont believe that he had bpd specifically (i could be wrong), but he did grow up in an invalidating environment, and struggled for his whole life in ways that look a great deal like it. with age, and with absolutely no input (he was resistant to mental health improvement in general, and therapy certainly), his "episodes" became far less frequent with age, probably cut by 70% or so in frequency. he didnt really cope any better or learn any strategies. stress just had less of an impact.

[maxsterling]

From what I have seen, the symptoms may change "flavor" but they are still there and more or less the same intensity.

My W is 47.  I don't think her BPD traits have changed much since she was 14, but the way she acts out has changed.  From a clinical point of view, they would look at her not having committed suicide or using hardcore drugs as progress.  Instead, her symptoms show up in other obsessions or maladaptive coping mechanisms.  If she had kept up the same coping mechanisms she had when she was younger, she would have died and we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Keep that in mind when you read things about BPD mellowing with age - for many people with BPD, if it doesn't, they would either be dead or jail or similar bad situation.  So any lessening of symptoms is relative and doesn't mean someone is "cured".

[maxsterling]

To kind of back up my comrade Cat...the best thing you can do is to learn techniques to not let BPD affect you. For example, a bpd sufferer is having a bad day and acting out...the best course of action is for you to not engage and to let yourself get roped into it. You have to be firm and indifferent and not allow anything the sufferer says or does affect you personally no matter how upsetting it could potentially make you.

Exactly.  This feels impossibly difficult at times and feels like you can't be the same kind of partner/friend/parent that you want to be or would be with a non-disordered person.  Example:  Yesterday, W had a bad day at work.  The moment she got into her car, she called me and asked if I had a minute to talk.  I was then subjected to 20 minutes of her complaining and cursing about her job.  Normally, I would want to be there for a loved one when he/she has a bad day at work.  But I don't want to listen to 20 minutes of cursing (especially when this happens several times per week).  I elected to stay on the phone call knowing W needed to "vent" and did my best to tune it out and take nothing personal and to do my best to not try and fix her problems.  Still, after 20 minutes of that, I was in no mood to resume my workday, so I wound up going for a 45-minute drive before heading home so that I could re-ground myself. 

[Cat Familiar]

I’ve had the opportunity (I won’t say privilege   )to observe three people with BPD for significant periods of time and have seen little to no improvement of behavior over time.

I describe my current husband as *BPD lite* as he is mostly a high functioning member of society, as opposed to the other two. Having read multitudes of stories here in the 9 years I’ve participated, he is really easygoing compared to most accounts I’ve heard from fellow members.

Yet, when we did more than a year of couples counseling with an experienced psychologist (and I observed almost no behavioral changes with him), she told me a couple of years later when I returned for individual therapy that he has a personality disorder.

My thought is that if he rises to the level of being diagnosable, then there must be a lot more spouses and family members of participants here who also meet the criteria.
 

[mitochondrium]

I would also have to agree with all that was already written. I have the opportunity to watch my father (in his 70s), in my opinion hfBPD (undiagnosed) through life. He never acknowledged he had a problem, never went to therapy... He has gotten calmer in some ways, he even prepares my mother breakfast (before that would literally never happen). But since I learned about BPD traits it is hard not to see them every time we talk... Also mother tells me sometimes about his outbursts that still happen.

[waverider]

Keep in mind also that we are a product of our life experiences. As individuals we are constantly evolving. If you have spent all your life thinking, reacting and behaving in a dysfunctional way, in your later years you can't suddenly have the life experiences of a completely functional person, as that knowledge takes years to accumulate.

Outward symptoms and actions may lesson as a persons energy levels reduce with age, but the thought processing is just the same, and in fact may be consolidated with age. Some will even become more stubborn and develop even greater sense or righteousness, or victimhood. Even normal people can turn into old grumps who don't care what anyone else thinks

I would say it fluctuates and changes, and if you are unfortunate enough to experience a pwBPD going through menopause, then things can get nuclear.

Another aspect, both good and bad, is as partners we understand it more, it may help us handle it better but also it can make us despair more as we no longer see the better sides as normal thinking, we have suspicious about  motivations and authenticity in this, so lose our naivety and don't enjoy it as much. Our fuses can get shorter and more jaded. Resentment for "lost time and opportunities " can kick in. A thousand cuts eventually take their toll on best intentions, so sometimes even a minor issue can trigger us immensely

The dramas may change flavour and intensity, whether your ability to interact becomes more, or less, strained is subject to many variables that are hard to measure. But you do have to accept it as it is what it is and not hanker to make it something it will never be. Learn to work with and around it, and not waste your life chasing what you have no control over. If you allow your life to revolve solely around handling bpd, and hoping it will fade, you will eventually implode

[maxsterling]

Keep in mind also that we are a product of our life experiences. As individuals we are constantly evolving. If you have spent all your life thinking, reacting and behaving in a dysfunctional way, in your later years you can't suddenly have the life experiences of a completely functional person, as that knowledge takes years to accumulate.

I think that is part of the issue with my W.  Research shows our brains grow until about age 25, afterwards our neuropathways are mostly set.  From personal experience with my own brain, I accept this to be true. 

I grew up in a consistent environment where up is up and down is down - I know what reality is.  Sure, there are times when that reality gets challenged and things are difficult, but in the end I have the ability to right myself in relation to the reality that formed in those first 25 years.  If I get depressed, or lose my job, or suffer an injury or setback, I can draw upon that reality to address my problem and move in a positive direction again.  I developed an identity during those first 25 years, and that identity is the basis for which I heal myself. 

Think of it as driving to a destination.  I grew up learning basic wayfinding skills, knowing how to get information, and knowing how to problem solve.   Now suppose my route is closed, and I am forced to find a new route.   I can draw upon those skills to resume in a positive direction no matter how many detours I have to take.

Now take my wife.  Her first 25 years had zero foundation and a constantly changing reality.  This is not just an issue imposed externally, after a time it is a compounding problem from within.  Lack of a solid foundation from ages 1-10 leads to self-destructive decisions at age 12, which then creates an even more unstable situation, which leads to even more self-destruction, and so on and so forth.  I don't think she developed an identity in those first 25 years, and now that her brain is no longer growing, it is much more difficult to develop that identity now.  When she loses direction, she has no identity to draw upon to put her in the right direction.  No matter how much therapy she does, no matter how much she can manage her symptoms, she still will lack that strong sense of self that non-disordered people have.

I really think this is the core of BPD - a pwBPD lacks that internal sense of self.  I'd be surprised to learn of a pwBPD that had a hobby or interest that lasted longer than a few years, especially one that is independent of their current physical or social situation.  I have many interests and hobbies that I have had since childhood.  I may not always be active in those interests due to external constraints, but they are still interests and I find ways to be active in them when I can. My W's interests, on the other hand, are mostly determined by the people in whatever her current social circle is.  When those social relationships break down, her interests change. 

[Pook075]

For my kid, she is way better at 25 than at 18.  For my wife, we didn't even know she had BPD until early menapause kicked in at 45, then she became a terror.

[waverider]

I really think this is the core of BPD - a pwBPD lacks that internal sense of self.  I'd be surprised to learn of a pwBPD that had a hobby or interest that lasted longer than a few years, especially one that is independent of their current physical or social situation.  I have many interests and hobbies that I have had since childhood.  I may not always be active in those interests due to external constraints, but they are still interests and I find ways to be active in them when I can. My W's interests, on the other hand, are mostly determined by the people in whatever her current social circle is.  When those social relationships break down, her interests change.  

Definitely this as a first red flag when you meet someone new. No long term consistency in either interests or close friendships. It also creates their need to mirror or adopt your interests giving you that immense feeling of finding a kindred soul, when in reality all you are seeing is a reflection.

This of course does not stick as it is not internally driven, and that's when it all starts to unravel and they become jealous of you still continuing to do what you were doing in the first place rather than switching to rescuer/carer/enabler mode. To keep the peace, you start to compromise and concede, without even realizing you are doing it, and your sense of self also starts to sap away. This is what you have to turn around if you want any chance of sucess.

[maxsterling]

Definitely this as a first red flag when you meet someone new. No long term consistency in either interests or close friendships. It also creates their need to mirror or adopt your interests giving you that immense feeling of finding a kindred soul, when in reality all you are seeing is a reflection.

When I met my W, I was looking for:
1) Someone with her own friends that she has had for a long time
2) Somone who has lived on her own
3) Single for at least 6 months
4) Has some kind of hobby or interest

Basically, I wanted a partner who is a complete person and would not be dependent on me.

When I met my W, she appeared to meet all those criteria:
1)  She had two very close friends and made it sound like they had been friends for a long time.  As it turns out, one long term friend she had an ugly falling out with right after we met, and the other one she had not been friends with nearly as long as she led on. 
2)  She had been living on her own in a foreign country for several years.  What I didn't know was that she was living alone out of necessity and that her living arrangements were provided by her employer.  She really had no desire to live on her own and manage her own household. 
3) "single" to her does not mean the same thing to me.  To her it means not in a committed relationship where you talk about your future with that person.  Instead, she was a serial dater who would use partners to cope with her loneliness. 
4)  She told me she was really into scuba diving, had certifications for it, had gone on vacation to scuba dive in various parts of the world.  As it turns out, the scuba diving was her ex-boyfriend's hobby, her trips to scuba dive and certifications were in order to spend time with him or get his attention.

My point being that pwBPD can be very good at hiding the red flags for awhile in order to get what they want, but it in no way means their disorder has lessened or that they have gotten it under control.

[waverider]

My point being that pwBPD can be very good at hiding the red flags for awhile in order to get what they want, but it in no way means their disorder has lessened or that they have gotten it under control.

Agree massaging their historical reality to suit the image they want to give is very common. I dont think they even know they are even doing it. If it is your first interaction with BPD then you would never even suspect or recognise it

[SinisterComplex]

When I met my W, I was looking for:
1) Someone with her own friends that she has had for a long time
2) Somone who has lived on her own
3) Single for at least 6 months
4) Has some kind of hobby or interest

Basically, I wanted a partner who is a complete person and would not be dependent on me.

When I met my W, she appeared to meet all those criteria:
1)  She had two very close friends and made it sound like they had been friends for a long time.  As it turns out, one long term friend she had an ugly falling out with right after we met, and the other one she had not been friends with nearly as long as she led on. 
2)  She had been living on her own in a foreign country for several years.  What I didn't know was that she was living alone out of necessity and that her living arrangements were provided by her employer.  She really had no desire to live on her own and manage her own household. 
3) "single" to her does not mean the same thing to me.  To her it means not in a committed relationship where you talk about your future with that person.  Instead, she was a serial dater who would use partners to cope with her loneliness. 
4)  She told me she was really into scuba diving, had certifications for it, had gone on vacation to scuba dive in various parts of the world.  As it turns out, the scuba diving was her ex-boyfriend's hobby, her trips to scuba dive and certifications were in order to spend time with him or get his attention.

My point being that pwBPD can be very good at hiding the red flags for awhile in order to get what they want, but it in no way means their disorder has lessened or that they have gotten it under control.

Putting on the mask...its tied to the mirroring aspect. Although this particular issue is not specific to BPD. This is also something seen among narcissists.

Hiding the red flags for them is essentially survival. The mask cannot be broken or dropped or you see the real them and that cannot happen. That is the mind set at least.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[ForeverDad]

What seems to drive a lot of the conflict in a relationship is when there are children.  You will notice on our separating & divorcing board board that the custody and parenting schedule issues are the lion's share of the tough divorce aspects being contested.  Sure, Blaming and financial issues are there too, but court ignores the blaming and has relatively normal processes for the financial debts, assets and ownership matters.

So, once the kids are grown and custody is not such a hot issue, perhaps the conflict would diminish but the people are still disordered.  Just because the kids are grown and gone does not mean long-term mental issues and behaviors are gone too.

This "BPD gets better over time" saying has no basis in practical fact, from where we've sat and observed.  In virtually every case getting better requires long-term intensive therapy and diligently applying the therapy in perceptions, thinking and behaviors.  Which most pwBPD resist strongly due to Denial and Blame Shifting.  (Of course, this is not a scientific sampling, we may see more of those who were desperate enough to keep searching until they found us here.)  Either Dialectical or Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (DBT or CBT) are recommended.

[deadmouse]

I don't think it improves with age. People do mellow out though in the sense that they have less energy to be as destructive as in their youth.

There's also the thing that while certain behaviors may fly when you're still young, this won't be the case later on when other people won't indulge the pwBPD's freakouts by chalking them up to mere immaturity.

Unfortunately, most pwBPD don't want to acknowledge they have a problem and therefore remain untreated. It's sad and extremely confusing.

[waverider]

An additional aspect in wife's case is that with older years she has withdrawn more from a life outside the house, has fewer interests this leaves more time for navel gazing and focusing on irrelevant and non existant dramas

[hurtingbad]

This question is similar to an instance I've been meaning to ask.  I am wondering if anyone has ever heard of BPD lessening due to health reasons.

My uBPDh had what they called a "widow maker" heart attack at the end of last year, and his whole outlook on everything has changed    He has only gotten upset with me once this year, and although it had me upset, it wasn't anywhere near the degree or length of previous incidents.
 
He does take a "happy pill" now, which was suggested by his primary care doctor but only due to a majority of people who have had a heart attack becoming depressed.  Nothing to do with BPD.  But even that prescription didn't start until about 5 months after his heart attack, and we didn't have any issues in that first 5 months either.

He realizes his anger issues have changed; that things just don't bother him as much as they used to. He just says almost dying changes your priorities.  I don't know if this is possible with BPD, if he's just able to see things differently since he had such a close brush with death, or what else might be going on, but I can tell you...it's been over 8 months now and I'm loving it! 

[waverider]

This question is similar to an instance I've been meaning to ask.  I am wondering if anyone has ever heard of BPD lessening due to health reasons.

My uBPDh had what they called a "widow maker" heart attack at the end of last year, and his whole outlook on everything has changed    He has only gotten upset with me once this year, and although it had me upset, it wasn't anywhere near the degree or length of previous incidents.
 
He does take a "happy pill" now, which was suggested by his primary care doctor but only due to a majority of people who have had a heart attack becoming depressed.  Nothing to do with BPD.  But even that prescription didn't start until about 5 months after his heart attack, and we didn't have any issues in that first 5 months either.

He realizes his anger issues have changed; that things just don't bother him as much as they used to. He just says almost dying changes your priorities.  I don't know if this is possible with BPD, if he's just able to see things differently since he had such a close brush with death, or what else might be going on, but I can tell you...it's been over 8 months now and I'm loving it! 

I suppose it makes trivial issues seem, well trivial.

Hope it lasts. has his functionality been impaired at all?

[hurtingbad]

I suppose it makes trivial issues seem, well trivial.

Hope it lasts. has his functionality been impaired at all?

Waverider,
I hope it lasts too...it has been so long since I have been happy.  Now, if I say or do something that I know would have set him off prior to this year, he'll just say something like, "...don't worry about it, it's no big deal".  After over 30 years, it's actually kinda of been freaking me out! 

He was not impaired, thank you for asking.  It was pretty scary the first couple of weeks after.  His heart wasn't functioning as it should, so he had to wear a "life vest" (a wearable defibrillator), but he got stronger very quickly.  He's been doing physical rehab at home and says he thinks the heart attack is the best thing that ever happened to him.  Eating better, acting better, not mad all the time...it's really been a miracle   And the physical therapy is actually helping with old knee and ankle injuries from a car wreck years ago too! 

From what I've read, I don't think that an event like this would just make trivial things seem trivial, do you? 

Are pwBPD really suffering from a mental illness, or do they just have anger issues, take things too personally, lack coping skills, etc?

[ForeverDad]

His heart wasn't functioning as it should, so he had to wear a "life vest" (a wearable defibrillator), but he got stronger very quickly.

My ejection factor went from about 20 to somewhere in the mid-30s, about half what it should be for my age.  But stuck there so I have an implanted defibrillator due to the statistical risk.  That was a few years ago.  Since I'm not on coumadin, my heart doctors weren't concerned when I added vitamin K2 (less likely for calcium to deposit in the arteries) to my daily vitamin D, zinc and other meds.

And the physical therapy is actually helping with old knee and ankle injuries from a car wreck years ago too!

I had physical therapy and now some of my shoes have swapped out insoles with built in heel inserts to straighten my knees and walking.  And I take OTC 95% extract of turmeric to reduce my joint inflammation.  If sharing that helps.

Are pwBPD really suffering from a mental illness, or do they just have anger issues, take things too personally, lack coping skills, etc?

It is so very complicated.  Each person is different.  Also different are the perceptions, sense of self or selfish, etc.

[waverider]

Are pwBPD really suffering from a mental illness, or do they just have anger issues, take things too personally, lack coping skills, etc?

Both. having something important to focus on can prevent the mind dwelling on minor dramas. .. I know as my wife has withdrawn from interacting from the world at large her interests have shrunk to navel gazing and dreaming up imaginary dramas and paranoias. All sense of perspective and reality becomes diminished.

Your experience does seem like a dramatic contrast though

[hurtingbad]

My ejection factor went from about 20 to somewhere in the mid-30s, about half what it should be for my age.  But stuck there so I have an implanted defibrillator due to the statistical risk.  That was a few years ago.  Since I'm not on coumadin, my heart doctors weren't concerned when I added vitamin K2 (less likely for calcium to deposit in the arteries) to my daily vitamin D, zinc and other meds.

I'm sorry to hear that.  My husbands EF went to about 30 but came back up to where it should be a couple of weeks later. I also had two stents put in this past spring, so we're both on blood thinners now. No K2 for either of us at this point.

Both. having something important to focus on can prevent the mind dwelling on minor dramas. .. I know as my wife has withdrawn from interacting from the world at large her interests have shrunk to navel gazing and dreaming up imaginary dramas and paranoias. All sense of perspective and reality becomes diminished.

Your experience does seem like a dramatic contrast though

He has been disabled and at home for 18 years due to the car wreck, but even before that, when he was working and had outside interests, the "arguments" seemed nonsensical, and always confused me.  The subjects, the length of them, and the severity of the rage was/is overwhelming to me.  After learning of BPD and finding this site, during each of the episodes, I worked so hard trying to remind myself I was dealing with a mental illness.  It's hard for me to comprehend that he may have just been dwelling on things, or taking things wrong, or even just not a nice person. In almost 33 years together, we have never gone months without a fight about nothing.  Which is pretty sad, when you think about it.  Right now, for the most part, I'm just enjoying being with him really, and not thinking about all of this (except that I'm still on here talking about it? ).

Again, I hope and pray with everything I am, that this lasts as long as I am alive. It's not something I'm used to, but I have gotten used to it really quickly and never want to go back.  I really do love him, and even more now that he's not mad at me almost all the time 

[Gravity Man]

no

[Augustine]

No.

It became progressively worse in the final two years, and combined with menopause, life was like a combination of living with Josef Mengele while engaged in the Labours of Hercules to accommodate the disorder.

I try to keep in mind that beyond the disorder, they’re still engaged in a quotidian struggle like anyone else, and are subject to all the introspection/reminisces that accompanies middle-age, e.g., the Erikson’s Stages.

Having said this, I wonder how the disorder incorporates assessments of their life’s generativity vs. stagnation in middle-age? Would their self-assessments also be subject to misperceptions?

Turning to the original question again, no, it was pretty dire, and was reminiscent of battling with a Hydra every day.