I'm a liar

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Yeah, your time-line is accurate.  I think it's a combination of 1 and 2. The demand that I make her think the prior relationship was "nothing" happened about a month after we moved in together, and about 6 months after meeting. So there was more commitment and a wearing off of the honeymoon stage I think.

[Blurr]

Yeah, your time-line is accurate.  I think it's a combination of 1 and 2. The demand that I make her think the prior relationship was "nothing" happened about a month after we moved in together, and about 6 months after meeting. So there was more commitment and a wearing off of the honeymoon stage I think.

[Cat Familiar]

The problem I foresee is that if you cave on wanting to be able to spend time with your group of friends, the demands will escalate. Some members here have spouses that are even threatened by work relationships with members of the opposite sex. People with BPD often try to isolate their spouses from friends and family and once you begin to go down that road, it’s really hard to reestablish vital connections. 

[Skip]

Not to counter Cat's comment which I agree with...

I have a social group (22) that has been together for 20+ years and I have an ex who was in the group before me.  

After we broke up, we attended events alone and with new partners and it was awkward. The ex was particularly troubled by it. I thought I was cool with it, but I can't deny that there was a stiffing vibe in otherwise intimate settings.

It's a conundrum for sure, in the best of circumstances.

The "two-date" story complicates things for you. It's a lie, no doubt, but its not the felony. There are also BPD traits at play, so it's going to feel like a felony until it doesn't.

You may want to play the long game, here. Take a tactical retreat and make this right with you wife but also work with Jake and Brittany and/or some confidants in the group to slowly reintegrate you both back into the group. If she is involved in a couple of events that are super great, she will probably soften to the group and Brittany.

[joke] If you tell her the group is getting together at a furrier to buy all the wives fur coats, I don't think she will care if Brittany is there. [/joke].

I had to do this with my partner and she is fully mentally competent.

TLDR: Stay grounded. Compromise, but be careful not to confuse compromise with concession.  

[Cat Familiar]

Skip brings up an issue I hadn’t considered, and I’ve had a similar experience with a long term group of friends. Had my ex attended social functions with this group of friends…it would have been awkward. Thankfully he didn’t. .(I sort of “inherited” most of our mutual friends after I broke up with him. It was an ugly divorce.)

But back to your situation, I think I’d feel a bit uncomfortable attending an event with a partner’s group of old friends if his ex were there. Also, I can imagine it could be somewhat intimidating to attend a function as the *new* wife when everyone there has a decade or two of shared history—feeling like an *outsider* is guaranteed. Some people can quickly transcend this awkwardness, while others might feel extremely shy and self conscious. (I’ve been in both camps, thankfully nowadays I’m in the former, not the latter!)

[Blurr]

Cat and FD - your points about escalating demands do ring true.

Since this came to light she has:
-Demanded I send a message to my closest friends saying "Hi, I broke trust by carrying on a lie about the nature of my prior relationship with Brittany. In order to help heal that breach of trust and repair the damage I have caused, please refrain from mentioning or sending invitations for gatherings where there are ex romantic interests also on the guest list. Moving forward, neither Rita nor I will ever be in attendance when those persons are present regardless of the nature of the gathering, thanks". My friends are very concerned about this and mentioned it sounds very out of character for me and are wondering if I am being abused.
-Demanded I block Brittany from all social media.
-Unfollow Jake from social media so I don't see pictures of Brittany on accident.
-Demanded I ask other friends why they unfriended her so she can decide how to feel about them.
-Demanded that I leave my friend group chat "BSing during Sports Events" as Jake is in it and there might be mention of Brittany in the chat from time to time
-Demanded that I agree if I am asked to be a groomsman in another friends wedding that I decline as Jake and Brittany would be there
-Demanded I talk to friends and make sure they don't accidentally mention the name of an ex in my wife's presence

Before this it was a constant battle to maintain a social life and see my family nearly as often as I'd like. She is talking now about being better on that front, but I think staying on this road will lose me most of my friends who have stuck by me through thick and thin.

[Skip]

Have you done these things or are they pending?

[Blurr]

I have done most of them, yes, in the couple of days after my lie came to a head.

I sent that message (which she basically wrote). I also deleted the chat group when she was demanding it, but it turns out I just deleted it from my end. So on football Sunday new messages from the group popped up. I haven't gone back in and properly left the group. I feel a little guilty but also a bit relieved. I don't think I would have agreed to it with more time to think.

I also asked my friends (a couple) who removed her on Facebook and they said they are sorry if it causes a further rift between my wife and my friends, but they can't justify being associated with someone they see as manipulative and abusive to somebody they care about. I haven't told her that response yet.

I haven't warned everybody about accidentally saying an exes name in my wife's presence. I feel as if after the message she had me send this would be obvious assuming we ever hang out with them again.

[Skip]

"Hi, I broke trust by carrying on a lie about the nature of my prior relationship with Brittany.

In order to help heal that breach of trust and repair the damage I have caused, please refrain from mentioning or sending invitations for gatherings where there are ex romantic interests also on the guest list.

Moving forward, neither Rita nor I will ever be in attendance when those persons are present regardless of the nature of the gathering, thanks".

This is certainly over-the-top. I can imagine the shock waves this has caused. It puts others in the middle of your marital issue, especially Jake and Brittany (these are pseudo-names, right).

Did you two discuss alternative ways to address this issue? Was this a collaboration?

[Blurr]

This was not a collaboration, and she would not hear of alternatives. The only concession she made was that didn't have to send it on Friday night as my sister and brother-in-law were hosting an opening celebration for their small brewery. I didn't want to sour their evening with drama, and she said while that was selfish of me to put my friends/family needs above hers, she could let me wait until the next day. She had me send it before we got on a plane Saturday morning, and it was clear the alternative would be being trapped next to her for hours while she verbally tore me down as cruelly as possible.

(and yes, I did put in fake names here to protect everybody's privacy)

[Cat Familiar]

OMG! You are being held hostage. This won’t get better with time. That she has been successful in driving a wedge between you and your friends will only embolden her to isolate you further. Not healthy, not normal, not tolerable in the long term.

[ForeverDad]

I also asked my friends (a couple) who removed her on Facebook and they said they are sorry if it causes a further rift between my wife and my friends, but they can't justify being associated with someone they see as manipulative and abusive to somebody they care about. I haven't told her that response yet.

Why must you disclose every little thing to your spouse?  Frankly, you have a right to some level of privacy and confidentiality.  The more you share sensitive topics the worse it will get.  Before too long you'll be questioning yourself about every little thing.  We've "been there, done that".  During my final years with my then-spouse (since the divorce I've used spouse rather than wife) I hesitated so much when I spoke with her that I was convinced I was starting to stutter.  It was that bad.  And that's where you are.  This is a devastating path.

I posted a link to Dr Joe Carver's articles previously on this thread.

Sounds like you're a victim willing to continue a hostage scenario?

Dr Joe Carver, a retired clinical psychologist, wrote some online pamphlets, here's a few to read.
https://drjoecarver.com/3/miscellaneous2.htm

• Personality Disorders: The Controllers, Abusers, Manipulators and Users in Relationships
• Identifying Losers, Controllers and Abusers in Relationships
• Love and Stockholm Syndrome: The Mystery of Loving an Abuser

OMG! You are being held hostage. This won’t get better with time. That she has been successful in driving a wedge between you and your friends will only embolden her to isolate you further. Not healthy, not normal, not tolerable in the long term.

I confirm this 100%!  You have no basis to hope she will ever change.  She's not listening to you, the aspects of the close relationship plus BPD means she won't and can't listen to you due to the immense emotional baggage of the relationship.  BPD is a disorder that distorts and impacts most the close relationships.

Question: Have you determined whether this dysfunctional, unbalanced and unhealthy relationship has a future?

[Blurr]

FD - I only read the first one initially, not realizing that the 2nd and 3rd were after the Spanish versions, etc. I have now. Some of it was chilling.

I am, except when under duress clearly, pretty careful with my words and I tend to assume others are, too. Like if I were to tell my wife I was going to be doing intense therapy, I would be taking steps to do that as soon as possible. And I would be following through. It is hard to disbelieve her promises of change despite previous statements of "I will work on my temper and reactivity" not amounting to much after a week has passed.

I am working from home today, back in the house. Last night I came home and slept in the spare bed as I had some things to do like fixing my bike, etc. It was fine, we didn't have any deep conversations or process any of what is going on. But as I sit here typing this I notice that she will be getting home from work soon and my body is telling me to be careful. I was feeling nervous when I looked at my phone this past week while staying with friends, but I was already feeling a little clearer in the head. I wish I had my laptop as I could finish the workday elsewhere but I left it in my wife's car last week. Maybe I should just head into the office now.

[Blurr]

Thanks Cat, I know my situation is weird with an ex and everything that would make life a bit complicated for any partner of mine and it had me thinking maybe I am overreacting to everything.

[Cat Familiar]

I don’t think you’re overreacting at all. If anything, I think you are underreacting to how abusively you are being treated. If we don’t establish and defend our personal boundaries, people with personality disorders can easily victimize us.

https://bpdfamily.com/content/setting-boundaries

Boundaries are all about what we are willing to experience and are not about controlling other people’s behavior. That she expects you to “break up” with your longtime friends is unreasonable. That she does not want to socialize with your ex is understandable. That she expects your group of friends to accommodate her misbegotten idea to exclude your ex and your good friend is ridiculous.

Giving any support to these illformed notions only validates the crazy, and is a guarantee that you will see more of it in the future.

[Skip]

This was not a collaboration, and she would not hear of alternatives. The only concession she made was that didn't have to send it on Friday night as my sister and brother-in-law were hosting an opening celebration for their small brewery.

Blurr, you may need some coaching to evolve from "Blurr" to "Lazer".  

She is out of line asking you to send a such a letter - but, man, - you should not have sent it.

I'm not victim blaming, I know you are in a tough situation, and I am 100% on your side. The past is past, and my comments below are about the future.

It will help to learn how to be strong, confident, but not conflict oriented.  It will help to learn how to compromise, but not concede.

Think of the confidence a State Trooper has when he pulls over a speeder. He encounters people all the time that are emotionally out of control and he is strong and firm without escalating conflict.

Be that man.

What is she doing that makes you concede? Maybe we can help you break that down.

TLDR: This situation can resolved... your friends will be resilient... but you are going to need to stand tall.

[Blurr]

Well this one was a combination of factors.

She saw I was feeling guilty and vulnerable and did not pump the brakes as she was enraged. I was insulted (You are disgusting, you are a small weak man, how could you you #$"! liar. I can't look at somebody like you...) This went on relentlessly for a while. She said any hurt I felt from how she was talking was deserved, as she felt a hundred times worse from the betrayal from her sick husband.

Then there was the trip we were going on. It was to meet some family she just found out existed including grandparents, half sibling, etc. An important trip for her that she had needed me to go on for support. We were leaving the house at 4:30am and going to be on a plane. I hadn't really slept at all and could not imagine her whispering this same kind of stuff to me for the whole trip. I thought if I conceded there I could buy myself some peace. It was still a pretty awful plane ride. Every few minutes she would tap on my shoulder and then whisper something about how I was a liar, I was disgusting, how could I do that to her, etc.

By the time we arrived at the destination I was a shell. I was embarrassed that I caved but was "stuck" with her for the next 6 days in close quarters. That's when she started in about people unfriending her on Facebook. I had gotten okay at walking away when things got nasty, but this trip coinciding with my lies being exposed was too much and there were lots of times where taking space was logistically really hard.

[Skip]

I thought if I conceded there I could buy myself some peace.

You are right not to fight and argue with her when she has an emotional swing. That is smart.

Where this is going wrong is, as Cat is suggesting, there are no boundaries on what behavior you will accept/appease or on what concessions you will make. This is where supporting your wife and her illness slips beyond constructive behavior on your part and into to self-sacrifice.

In reading some of your posts, it's clear that she can, on occasion, dis-regulate at abusive levels. The "you're a small, weak little man" is abusive. And this combined with the self-sacrifice, is making you into a "shell" (to use your word).

When we are beaten down, we start feeling like a victim, and every slight damages us. We become less able to defend ourselves. It just then spirals down.

Intellectually, you know what you should do. Your do-over showed that. But when you are a "shell," you aren't capable of handling situations in real time. This is where the "weak little man" statement is coming from.

Does this sound right?

She doesn't want you to be a "shell". Then, no one is the adult in the room. But she can't manage her own life, let alone help you manage yours. You are on your own. In this type of relationship, you are part "partner" and part "parent."

You can't change her. And if you are living with her in "shell" mode, you will both suffer.

Does this sound right?

How do you think you (anyone) can break out of the shell?

[SinisterComplex]

You are right not to fight and argue with her when she has an emotional swing. That is smart.

Where this is going wrong is, as Cat is suggesting, there are no boundaries on what behavior you will accept/appease or on what concessions you will make. This is where supporting your wife and her illness slips beyond constructive behavior on your part and into to self-sacrifice.

In reading some of your posts, it's clear that she can, on occasion, dis-regulate at abusive levels. The "you're a small, weak little man" is abusive. And this combined with the self-sacrifice, is making you into a "shell" (to use your word).

When we are beaten down, we start feeling like a victim, and every slight damages us. We become less able to defend ourselves. It just then spirals down.

Intellectually, you know what you should do. Your do-over showed that. But when you are a "shell," you aren't capable of handling situations in real time. This is where the "weak little man" statement is coming from.

Does this sound right?

She doesn't want you to be a "shell". Then, no one is the adult in the room. But she can't manage her own life, let alone help you manage yours. You are on your own. In this type of relationship, you are part "partner" and part "parent."

You can't change her. And if you are living with her in "shell" mode, you will both suffer.

Does this sound right?

How do you think you (anyone) can break out of the shell?

I just wanted to emphasize and elaborate on what our Sensei Skip has said here...

"Part Partner and Part Parent" - This is the most important thing to focus on. You either have to be all in or all out. These relationships you have to be truly committed and accept the fact that a lot of what you want based on normal thinking most likely will not happen.

You have to do the changing, the growing, and the learning for the both of you. Additionally, try to train yourself to getting used to the concept of being FIRM and INDIFFERENT. I have said this many times on the board throughout the years. You have to be firm with your boundaries and you have to show indifference when there is an emotional blowup. You cannot react when situations become emotionally charged.

Another thing I wanted to point out to you...you are dealing with disordered behavior and what comes with that is the constant S Testing. The point is to not take it personally and not react and just go about your business.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[Blurr]

Intellectually, you know what you should do. Your do-over showed that. But when you are a "shell," you aren't capable of handling situations in real time. This is where the "weak little man" statement is coming from.

Does this sound right?

She doesn't want you to be a "shell". Then, no one is the adult in the room. But she can't manage her own life, let alone help you manage yours. You are on your own. In this type of relationship, you are part "partner" and part "parent."

You can't change her. And if you are living with her in "shell" mode, you will both suffer.

Does this sound right?

How do you think you (anyone) can break out of the shell?

Yeah, the first question does sound right. I am not currently feeling "up" to being my best. This has all slowly eroded me. It is really hard to accept that when she is overcome with emotions I am no longer speaking with somebody who lives in the same reality as me. That I can't take to heart what she says. I think I was able to do that for a while, when I realized there was something not quite ordinary in our fights, but before I learned what BPD even was. But hearing awful things said about me at least every few weeks for years has taken its toll, especially since she is so smart, clever, and insightful about many things. I know if I don't break out of "shell mode" it will get worse and worse.

As for breaking out of it now that I've so thoroughly failed to set healthy boundaries, that is daunting. I feel pretty resentful right now. The things said over the past few weeks have been particularly awful. And while she seems to be over the rage portion of that, and I don't want to hold it against her, I keep picturing her face as she shoved me and screamed at me to get back in the bedroom like I was some misbehaving child (that she doesn't even love). I keep imagining what I would say if I was on the outside and saw this. How can I have gotten to a point that someone who loves me decided to treat me like that? Have I sunk so low that she thought I could be bullied into lying in bed with her after she physically tried to force me to? I know the answer to that because she's demanded I lay in bed with her and hug her/rub her back when she's angry with me before. Sometimes my condition was "I will lay in bed with you if you agree to stop putting me down/complaining about me" and she's told me since I was the one upsetting her I didn't get to make demands. And a few times I did just lay there rubbing her/hugging her while every few minutes I would hear something like "you don't know me at all. A good partner would have seen I needed XYZ" etc. Those times made my skin absolutely crawl, to be holding somebody you love and try to treat right while they tear your self esteem down and even the boundary of "stop being mean to me if you want me to hug you" is seen as an attack on her. Sorry for going off a bit.

As for what to actually do now, I know that if I stay in I will need to jump in with both feet. I had some success with avoiding invalidating her emotions which helped dodge a few potential meltdowns and lower the severity of some others. I had gotten to a point where I was better at walking away if things got ugly and coming back exactly when I said I would. This helped her fear of abandonment I think. I also need to take care of myself before it is an all or nothing make or break feeling. Like I would avoid saying I wanted to hang out with friends this weekend, because of the poopstorm it might cause. And then the next weekend I'd bring it up but back down when she raged. And then by the third weekend I'd feel so isolated that I'd just say "I'm hanging out with John tomorrow for 5 hours" and then have no room left in my heart to compromise in any way. Obviously doing this over and over builds resentment on both sides and leaves her believing I "never compromise and it's always your way or the highway". So advocating what I need before it's an  "emergency" is something I need to improve on. This requires me to disentangle what I need from what her possible negative reaction might be to hearing about it.

[ForeverDad]

The last time I was in court, when my child was age 11, a tween, I already had moved up to full custody, I was then seeking - again - majority parenting time.  I did get it but only during the school year.

Here's why I'm citing that two day hearing.  Previously court had studiously avoided most of the continuing poor behaviors and just made incremental improvements to the order.

• Magistrate wrote at least 6 times in the decision that she was disparaging me and in front of our child.
• The magistrate wrote that Mother needed counseling but didn't order it.

That was the first time court ever mentioned disparagement.  So the repeated demeaning criticisms you have experienced have a recognized term (disparagement) that you can use when describing some of this to whichever professional you speak to.  That's the verbal abuse, as for the physical incidents, that may be better described as DV.  It's hard to predict whether officialdom in your area will view the level of DV as rising to an 'actionable' status.

[Skip]

I'll share part of my story (username Skippy). I'm just trying to start a conversation in this thread on what you can do. This is not intended to shift any focus to me - I'm telling this as one example of finding a way to break out of a shell.

I was beaten down. I used the word "shell," too. I loved her, and I loved her two boys who looked up to me as a male role model as their bio-dad had just killed himself (they were divorced). This was my family unit, and I cared deeply about them. And it was destroying me. Things she was doing to cope were hurting me deeply. It was hurt, upon hurt, upon hurt.

One day, it occurred to me that no one cared that I was hurting. No one. In fact, I wonder if anyone even noticed. She didn't. The boys didn't. Not her family. Not my friends.

I had one of those philosophical discussions we sometimes have with ourselves. I realized I was living alone in a private world of pain that only I could see. And I thought about the question, If a tree falls in a forest, and there's no one around to hear it, does it make a sound? Or, in my case, if I wasn't holding on to this private world of pain, would it exist?

Then it hit me. I was living my life as a victim. I was allowing it to happen, and I was holding on to it. This thought made me feel disgusted with myself. Why wqs I doing this? Don Henley said "So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains, and we never even know we have the key" (Eagles. Already Gone)" . In addition to being cool, Hen;ley had some great insights. I swore then that I was not going to be a victim. I was going to find the key.

I made a pledge to myself that the next time (and every time) I had a victim thought (which was happening a lot), I would go into a mirror and insult myself out loud for being weak and tell myself to be a man. In the beginning, I even slapped myself and talked schoolyard trash talk. And most times, I'd laugh at what I called myself afterward. And generally, I felt like I was making progress - kicking a bad habit.

I was amazed that after a few days of this, the victim thoughts were coming less often. By two weeks, my outlook on life was significantly better. And the trash talk was getting funnier.

I realized that I had completely lost touch with my masculinity. Some drama queen cells had grown up in its place.

I spent a year getting increasingly in touch with masculinity and got stronger, healthier, and better able to cope with difficult things. It might have actually been 18 months. I was much further down in a shell than I thought. And when I say masculinity, I'm not talking about machismo. I'm talking about a quiet confidence, a thicker skin, a better friend, a more giving individual, a sense of humor, and the ability to see myself and laugh at myself.

I'm not suggesting that anyone walk this exact path. I am suggesting how important it is to find a path back to who we are and that it's about changing ourselves.  

The world doesn't even know we are suffering. Only we do. And we hold the key.

After talking with my therapist I met with my wife last night and told her that I didn't want to stay in the relationship any longer. That the long term damage it was doing to both of us was too much. That even if we both did hard work to get through this issue of my lie we would only be at the same place we were before and I was barely hanging on by a thread then.

I think I would revisit this with the therapist as soon as you are back on terra firma. You (both of you) need a relationship model that gives you some relationship value. I think I would tell the therapist now what you are planning to do and what reasonable needs you have and need to work into the relationship in order to stay.

[Turkish]

A very senior member, a former mod, once wrote that a more senior member gave her this advice: no one's coming to rescue us.

They helped me, and does to this day,

[Blurr]

Thanks for the sage advice. I have decided that I don't think I can handle being half parent/half partner, especially considering that things have escalated despite a few months of marriage counseling at this point.

It is killing me, though. My wife keeps telling me that I just need to think about all of the good times and that it's not right to throw away what we have. And it is really tempting. My own therapist says there isn't reason to believe things will change long term considering how things have gone, especially in marriage counseling.

In marriage counseling we had that session I agreed to. The therapist called me out for using wishy washy language with things like "I don't think I can heal enough to stay in the marriage" or "right now I don't think I am invested enough for trying alternative counseling options" etc. It was really hard because I don't like seeing her hurting, but I used more assertive language through the rest of the conversation. It was excruciating, but I got through it. I slipped back and before I left I agreed to listen to the rest of this marriage counseling book my wife found, but told her it wouldn't change my mind. Still, I think I left her a shred of hope.

Today I was back at our house working from home for a few hours so I could work on fixing the washing machine. I went to see if I had any clothes I wanted to take with me from the bedroom and I saw she had a shirt and sweatshirt of mine on the bed next to her pillow. I can't shake the image of her curling up with those as items as comfort and crying like the hurt little girl I know she feels like right now. That image has been breaking me the last few hours. I wish I wasn't hurting her like this. I've felt uneasy in this marriage since she first brought up divorce on the honeymoon. I don't think I will be happy long term if I go back on my want for divorce, but my whole body wants me to run back to her and make her feel okay, even if the chances of it being awful are better than the chances of it being great.

[SinisterComplex]

Thanks for the sage advice. I have decided that I don't think I can handle being half parent/half partner, especially considering that things have escalated despite a few months of marriage counseling at this point.

It is killing me, though. My wife keeps telling me that I just need to think about all of the good times and that it's not right to throw away what we have. And it is really tempting. My own therapist says there isn't reason to believe things will change long term considering how things have gone, especially in marriage counseling.

In marriage counseling we had that session I agreed to. The therapist called me out for using wishy washy language with things like "I don't think I can heal enough to stay in the marriage" or "right now I don't think I am invested enough for trying alternative counseling options" etc. It was really hard because I don't like seeing her hurting, but I used more assertive language through the rest of the conversation. It was excruciating, but I got through it. I slipped back and before I left I agreed to listen to the rest of this marriage counseling book my wife found, but told her it wouldn't change my mind. Still, I think I left her a shred of hope.

Today I was back at our house working from home for a few hours so I could work on fixing the washing machine. I went to see if I had any clothes I wanted to take with me from the bedroom and I saw she had a shirt and sweatshirt of mine on the bed next to her pillow. I can't shake the image of her curling up with those as items as comfort and crying like the hurt little girl I know she feels like right now. That image has been breaking me the last few hours. I wish I wasn't hurting her like this. I've felt uneasy in this marriage since she first brought up divorce on the honeymoon. I don't think I will be happy long term if I go back on my want for divorce, but my whole body wants me to run back to her and make her feel okay, even if the chances of it being awful are better than the chances of it being great.

In the counseling session your tone and approach changed which is good and necessary. Look no one truly wants to be the bad guy or the villain. However, the most important thing to keep at the front of your mind is that you and you alone are responsible for your own emotions and behaviors. The other half is responsible for theirs. It is as simple as that. So don't beat around the bush and do not sugarcoat a damn thing. Why? While you may think you are protecting someone by doing that the truth of the matter is you are just doing more damage when the truth really hits home.

I may sound heartless or that I don't get it or understand, but my friend trust me...I get it and I do understand. I only focus on the party I can help though. Therefore, the point is to reassure and reinforce you and help you along your journey.

Always do what is in your best interest. If you continually worry about everyone else and you worry about other people's feelings all of the time you will get left in the dust and you will be devastated.

No, it is not easy...far from. However, I am trying to guide you toward what is necessary for you to be healthy emotionally and mentally.

Please try to work on the ideals of being firm and indifferent moving forward. By following and practicing these concepts it will help you to be more decisive moving forward regardless of the different paths you choose.

Cheers and Best Wishes!

-SC-

[ForeverDad]

I have decided that I don't think I can handle being half parent/half partner... It is killing me, though...

In marriage counseling we had that session I agreed to. The therapist called me out for using wishy washy language with things like "I don't think I can heal enough to stay in the marriage" or "right now I don't think I am invested enough for trying alternative counseling options" etc...I slipped back and before I left I agreed to listen to the rest of this marriage counseling book my wife found, but told her it wouldn't change my mind.

You have a right to reconsider prior decisions, especially when you've gained more information or insight.

I saw she had a shirt and sweatshirt of mine on the bed next to her pillow. I can't shake the image of her curling up with those as items as comfort and crying like the hurt little girl I know she feels like right now...

This has been described here before:  Object constancy.
Little children often need a blanket or toy to soothe them.  In time they grow to be adults and grow out of that phase.

I don't think I will be happy long term if I go back on my want for divorce, but my whole body wants me to run back to her and make her feel okay, even if the chances of it being awful are better than the chances of it being great.

Welcome to life.  And difficult life choices.  You are normal enough to see the different outcomes of those two choices.  We've been there, done that.

Reminds me of a Bible account (1 Kings 18:21) Then Elijah approached all the people and said: "How long will you be limping between two different opinions? If Jehovah is the true God, follow him; but if Baal is, follow him!"

Those people faced a choice, not the same as what you're facing, but a choice nonetheless.  Once you start down the healthier path, then each step will be a little easier than the one before.

[Blurr]

Thanks FD and SC. I am feeling a bit stronger today and a little more sure of myself. I think yesterday I let myself feel sad. I cried for a while while out biking and I'm sure I looked  a sight to people driving by if they noticed me, ha. But I am not mad at myself, I had and have every right to feel sad. I met my wife 4 years ago and really thought I had met the one I could settle down with and raise a little family. I think I finally, really, let go of that hope by the time I was done.

Moving forward I need to realize, like you both said, that this is life, and I can't make everybody happy. I can't even make both me and my wife happy at the same time. She was an adult and okay before we me, it will have to be up to her to be okay moving forward. Maybe she's genuine about changing and will engage in and stick to meaningful therapy and tackle her demons. Even if she does, and I'm missing out on future years of a healthy relationship with her, I can only make a decision based on what I know now.

[Cat Familiar]

“Maybe she's genuine about changing and will engage in and stick to meaningful therapy and tackle her demons. Even if she does, and I'm missing out on future years of a healthy relationship with her, I can only make a decision based on what I know now.”


This is a wise perspective. So many of us here have engaged in wishful thinking, that if only__________ (fill in the blank) this outcome happens, our partners will once again return to who they were when we fell in love with them.

It’s easy to spend a lifetime waiting for something that is unlikely to happen.

Instead, it’s best to look at the *what is* rather than *what we wish it should be* and make our decisions from that vantage point.

[ForeverDad]

Maybe she's genuine about changing and will engage in and stick to meaningful therapy and tackle her demons. Even if she does, and I'm missing out on future years of a healthy relationship with her, I can only make a decision based on what I know now.

An insight about the how unpredictable the future can be...

One of our most prolific posters some 5-10 years ago was JoannaK.  She wrote that if persons do work to attain some recovery from BPD then they would not be the same persons as before and there was a real possibility the relationship would not survive or be restarted, one or both had changed that much.

[Blurr]

Just popping in here for an update.

Things have been up and down since I decided to move out. I haven't slept in the house in a little over three weeks and have kept contact pretty minimal in that time. There have been a lot of messages from my wife saying I should read this or that couples therapy book, etc. It still twists me up inside because that love for her isn't gone. I miss many things about her and us, and about where we live and sometimes I feel drawn to head back over and take her in my arms and tell her we will figure it out. It's so confusing figuring out how much contact to stay in. I've responded to logistic texts/phone calls but haven't on ones like "I miss you". I don't know what to say. It feels unfair to say "I miss you, too" even though it is true. And it feels cold as well. But making her feel okay can't be my responsibility right now.

I still overall feel like I'm doing the right thing. It sucks and is really lonely sometimes, despite being pretty active socially these last few weeks. I am naturally optimistic and it's easy to look back at good times and think they were really good. But I logically can remember that even in those good times I was often on high alert for a sudden shift in mood that could derail an entire evening/weekend. I remember close to once per week last winter I'd find myself bundling up to take a walk in the freezing cold darkness because she wouldn't give me a break from her berating if I stayed in the house. I remember the confusion of being yelled at to give her space, made fun of and insulted for obeying that request.

I move into a large studio apartment on a relative's property next week. I think that's when it'll all really feel real.

[Pook075]

Keep your head up Blur!  You're doing the right thing putting yourself first and taking time to reflect.  Find the real you once again and make an informed decision once you're past some of the trauma.

One thing though- if you want to say, "I miss you", then say it!  It's not being dishonest and it can be the start of balanced conversations with clear boundaries.  It's okay to miss the good times while despising the bad stuff, there's no rule against that.  As long as you're standing strong with the "Brittany Boundary" (you have nothing more to say about that), it's okay to try communicating.  Just set other boundaries as well (IE, don't blow up my phone or insult me).

Good luck- it seems like you're doing all the right things.  Hopefully the new apartment gives you a little more stability.  It's great that its right next to family!