Complex Relationship, BPD, Boundaries and Valedation

[Depression = 72% of members]

trying to navigate this.
Me, male, 61 with female 33.
Divorced with teenage daughter, shared custody.
We have been together for 16 months, she moved in with me 3 months ago.
She was never diagnosed with BDP, but it became obvious to me after she moved in that more than her (diagnosed) PMDD was at play here.
She has severe crisis every 1-2 weeks, usually because I do something that she perceives places her in a non-priority role over my daughter or ex-wife. For example, not okaying a change of custody day with her, or not inviting her to a school event. Other triggers include being out of communication for any length of time (forgot my phone while visiting a 92 year old neighbour).
When I try to set boundaries (I read all the books) she accuses me of triggering her further (for example, I say do not text or call as I am in a meeting, or at a movie with my daughter, but she text bombs and calls repeatedly). She has JUST started therapy and is planning to do DBT, but I am not sure I can last ... every time there is a crisis she either threatens to leave, or she ideates suicide....
Maybe I am looking for hope here, or maybe I am triggering her in ways I can avoid (I really try) but I dont know where to turn and am exhausted.
Really love her.

[Maturin]

trying to navigate this.
Me, male, 61 with female 33.
Divorced with teenage daughter, shared custody.
We have been together for 16 months, she moved in with me 3 months ago.
She was never diagnosed with BDP, but it became obvious to me after she moved in that more than her (diagnosed) PMDD was at play here.
She has severe crisis every 1-2 weeks, usually because I do something that she perceives places her in a non-priority role over my daughter or ex-wife. For example, not okaying a change of custody day with her, or not inviting her to a school event. Other triggers include being out of communication for any length of time (forgot my phone while visiting a 92 year old neighbour).
When I try to set boundaries (I read all the books) she accuses me of triggering her further (for example, I say do not text or call as I am in a meeting, or at a movie with my daughter, but she text bombs and calls repeatedly). She has JUST started therapy and is planning to do DBT, but I am not sure I can last ... every time there is a crisis she either threatens to leave, or she ideates suicide....
Maybe I am looking for hope here, or maybe I am triggering her in ways I can avoid (I really try) but I dont know where to turn and am exhausted.
Really love her.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[SaltyDawg]

Maturin,

   Thank you for joining BPD family.  We get it.  What you wrote sounds so familiar, if you read these threads you will see a pattern similar to yours and it is incredibly frustrating behavior to deal with.

   I know you have read books, but have you read these two, I find them to be the most help about learning about it, assessing for it, and what to do about it.

   Stop Caretaking the Borderline Or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get on with Life by Margalis Fjelstad - this one is the best for managing a person with BPD

   Stop Walking on Eggshells: Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care About Has Borderline Personality Disorder by By Paul T. T. Mason, Randi Kreger - Make sure you get the 3rd edition, as it has an excellent assessment tool in it.

   If you have more specific questions, please ask, and someone will be here to help you out.

   My most important piece of advice is to be sure to do self-care whatever that might look like for you, so you can keep your energy levels up to care for your person with BPD.

   Take care with self-care.

SD

trying to navigate this.
Me, male, 61 with female 33.
Divorced with teenage daughter, shared custody.
We have been together for 16 months, she moved in with me 3 months ago.
She was never diagnosed with BDP, but it became obvious to me after she moved in that more than her (diagnosed) PMDD was at play here.
She has severe crisis every 1-2 weeks, usually because I do something that she perceives places her in a non-priority role over my daughter or ex-wife. For example, not okaying a change of custody day with her, or not inviting her to a school event. Other triggers include being out of communication for any length of time (forgot my phone while visiting a 92 year old neighbour).
When I try to set boundaries (I read all the books) she accuses me of triggering her further (for example, I say do not text or call as I am in a meeting, or at a movie with my daughter, but she text bombs and calls repeatedly). She has JUST started therapy and is planning to do DBT, but I am not sure I can last ... every time there is a crisis she either threatens to leave, or she ideates suicide....
Maybe I am looking for hope here, or maybe I am triggering her in ways I can avoid (I really try) but I dont know where to turn and am exhausted.
Really love her.

[Maturin]

OK so here’s a more specific question.

I’ve read about the importance of setting boundaries, so I have tried to set a boundary where when my partner starts to self hurt, which, in her case, involves  beating her head with her fists. I told her that I would leave for a period of 30 minutes until she calms down. As per the advice I read about I told her that this is because I love her and to watch her doing that causes me too much pain and so I must leave in order to take my own health into consideration.

The first time, and only time, and I managed to do this, she did actually calm down although when I returned, she told me that she had never beaten her head so badly.

Every time we talk about it, she starts to spiral, and maintains that she cannot be left alone because she does not have the tools to deal with the situation. She has just started therapy and is turning some DBT techniques, but feel this is very early days.

Should I continue with this boundary or put it on hold until she has learned more coping techniques? I feel that actually if I’m there, and she’s that bad, maybe it actually makes it worse?

She asked me to grab her wrists to stop at doing this but I feel like it steps into a boundary of physical restraint, which I’m not comfortable with, Especially since I may be experiencing feelings of anger or frustration myself at this point, and the spiral/Chaos/split will continue unabated.

[Gemsforeyes]

Hi and welcome to the boards -

I’m very sorry that you’re dealing with this pain and confusion.

I have only a moment, but the last part of your post caught my eye and scared me… seemed it scared you, too.  It should.

If your partner begins to self-harm, it seems it is wise to leave and you have the right to call the authorities for help. 

I don’t believe that you should “grab your partner’s wrists” under any circumstance unless she is attacking your child.  You have no idea how your partner will react to being physically restrained by you, either in that moment or a few hours later. 

She may call the police and with potential bruising on her wrists, you Will be arrested and charged with domestic violence.  There is little doubt about that.  It may be helpful for you to call a DV helpline for advice.

Please use caution.

Did your girlfriend show these self harming behaviors prior to moving into your home?

How is your girlfriend’s relationship with your daughter?

Are you seeking therapy for yourself?  This could be helpful for you.

Warmly,
Gemsforeyes

[once removed]

Every time we talk about it, she starts to spiral, and maintains that she cannot be left alone because she does not have the tools to deal with the situation.

she is telling the truth about this. BPD is synonymous with a lack of coping skills, and/or poor ones. it is a deficit of tools.

As per the advice I read about I told her that this is because I love her and to watch her doing that causes me too much pain and so I must leave in order to take my own health into consideration.

this must be incredibly hard on you, whether youre present or not. your own mental health and coping are paramount considerations in choosing to love someone with bpd, or walking away.

Should I continue with this boundary or put it on hold until she has learned more coping techniques?

it may not be realistic right now, and it is possible that it makes things worse in the moment, to leave. and on the other hand, its painful for you to stay.

a bpd relationship is a "special needs" relationship. choosing to be in that relationship means playing a supportive role, while supporting ourselves.

we have an article here on supporting a child with bpd who is going into therapy. while your loved one isnt a child, it talks about realistic expectations, what to expect in general, collaborative problem solving, and building a validating, nurturing environment. all important stuff to know, going into this: https://bpdfamily.com/content/support-child-therapy

She asked me to grab her wrists to stop at doing this but I feel like it steps into a boundary of physical restraint, which I’m not comfortable with

yeah, this might not be a great idea, and its a hard no for you, which should be honored.

its not clear to me what the "right" solution for you both is, but its a conversation i would revisit with her, listen (primarily listen), and try to work out collaboratively; and it will probably require some bending. its something that her therapist should be a part of as well.

[SaltyDawg]

Maturin,

   My original response was lost in the software corruption, so I am going to respond again.

OK so here’s a more specific question.

I’ve read about the importance of setting boundaries, so I have tried to set a boundary where when my partner starts to self hurt, which, in her case, involves  beating her head with her fists. I told her that I would leave for a period of 30 minutes until she calms down. As per the advice I read about I told her that this is because I love her and to watch her doing that causes me too much pain and so I must leave in order to take my own health into consideration.

What you describe is 'self-harm' or 'self-mutilation' in my personal opinion is probably the most impactful symptom of BPD for the borderline, even more so than the suicide one (which is more often than not a manipulation attempt - I usually physically grab the instrument of death away from them (I've been trained to do this, don't do this unless you have no other choice to save their life) and that de-escalates it; whereas, doing something similar to someone who is self-harming would aggravate the situation even more).  Since this is a behavior directed towards herself and doesn't directly impact you physically, it is very hard to set a boundaryon this. 

Since she is hitting herself on the head, this can potentially cause brain damage (especially if she escalates it by running into a wall or a tree headfirst).  Look for signs of concussion, if present call 911 as this can be a life-threatening/altering emergency. 

https://www.cdc.gov/headsup/basics/concussion_symptoms.html

Self-harm usually occurs when a person is feeling overwhelming emotional pain, and in order to make that pain 'go away' they use physical pain in an attempt to push the emotional pain away which is unbearable to them. 

My daughter has done self-harm, most people do self-harm on their forearms/wrist area; however, it can be anywhere on the body.  A good distraction method for self-harm is to wear rubber bands on the wrist, and start to snap them to create a sensation of pain when they become agitated.  However do not use rubber bands on the neck or head, as it can cause significant damage on the neck, lips, and eyes.  Instead, a physiological alternative is to draw a large bowl or sink full of ice water, and dunk one's face into the ice water while holding one's breath for as long as practical, as an alternate to punching oneself in the head.

Since you didn't mention anything about blood, but if she likes seeing herself bleed, another alternative is to draw on oneself with red pen or marker (use children's markers, they are easier to wash off the skin after an episode).

With regards to the leaving boundary, due to the severity of her behavior, only do this if you are reasonably sure it will not escalate to a life-threatening emergency, which can happen in seconds.  If, and when you do the 'leaving boundary', again, make sure you tell her that you will be back in 30 minutes, check back in at 29 minutes, and if she is better comfort her, if not leave for another 30 minutes (or whatever period you choose), repeat the reassurances.


The first time, and only time, and I managed to do this, she did actually calm down although when I returned, she told me that she had never beaten her head so badly.

Sounds like she is using FOG, by saying this, a 'guilt-trip' and this is a form of psychological abuse or manipulation to get you to stay.  Did you see goose-eggs, redness, swelling, black eye(s), or other physical evidence to support her version of the facts?  If not, be skeptical, as it could be a ploy for getting attention from you.  If there is physical evidence, take photographs/video with your phone - this way she cannot change her narrative and say you did it.  Get it documented with your phone and/or an independent witness.  If she asks why you are doing this, tell her so you can show the therapist so you don't do this again.


Every time we talk about it, she starts to spiral, and maintains that she cannot be left alone because she does not have the tools to deal with the situation. She has just started therapy and is turning some DBT techniques, but feel this is very early days.

If possible, attend therapy with her, or at least brief the DBT specialist about her head hitting behaviors as those need to be addressed first before anything else.  If she won't let you, e-mail the therapist, they will not respond; however, they will read the e-mail from you, and adjust her treatment accordingly.


Should I continue with this boundary or put it on hold until she has learned more coping techniques? I feel that actually if I’m there, and she’s that bad, maybe it actually makes it worse?

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't.  Use your powers of observation to figure this out as you know her best.  Make sure her therapist knows of this behavior, so it can be addressed ASAP as it is very severe.

I would modify the boundary, after consulting with her therapist (if possible), to that you want her to call 988 (or text 741741) when she wants to self-harm, they are trained to de-escalate the situation.  Hand her the phone after you make contact with them. 


She asked me to grab her wrists to stop at doing this but I feel like it steps into a boundary of physical restraint, which I’m not comfortable with, Especially since I may be experiencing feelings of anger or frustration myself at this point, and the spiral/Chaos/split will continue unabated.

I know this is easier said than done, try not to show any emotion, positive or negative, while she is in an episode, no display of anger and/or frustration - you need to be her rock during the episode.

She is begging you for help so she doesn't hurt herself.  If you can record these episodes, audio and/or video.  You can do one of two things, call 911, and let them come over and deal with her and restrain her, and possibly transport her to the hospital for a mental health evaluation - this usually escalates the situation.

In the meantime while you are waiting for 911 to show up, in order to de-escalate the situation, validate her feelings. 

If she is hitting herself on the head, you can do an alternative to restraint (assuming you have her permission to do so).  I am assuming that you are larger and stronger than her, and if she were to hit/punch you it will not hurt, or not hurt significantly.  If this is the case, consider hugging her tightly while saying soothing words (e.g. "I know you are very feeling very frightened right now, I am here for you, I care for you, I would like for things to calm down" while looking into her eye, focus on her left eye), where you put your body between her arms (that are now behind you when hugging) so she cannot hit herself in the head.  However, be prepared to be hit on the back, or even your head - this easily crosses the line of DV (domestic violence) if you tell her 'no hitting', she may or may not respect this boundary if she is too emotionally activated (triggered) to comply with your request.  If she is physically hurting you, disengage as your safety is more important.  If you cannot handle this emotionally, also disengage, as your safety comes first. 

By doing the 'hugging' thing, you are going way above and beyond what anyone should do in your situation.

Other alternatives.  Use a yoga ball as a shield, so she can punch it instead.  Use sofa cushion or a special foam pad shield that the schools use for emotionally challenged children.  Learn the restraining policy of the local school and adopt it for yourself as it has already been legally vetted to prevent you from getting into trouble.  If you are wondering, I have had to do this on a couple of occasions myself.


Other thoughts if she has not yet been in a mental hospital (a.k.a. 'grippy sock' jail / vacation) she can learn worse behaviors from other patients there - avoid going there if at all possible.  Get this documented, if she starts splitting you black, it can go badly very quickly for you, right now she sees you as a good person to take care of her, but if she doesn't you need to have things documented because she can accuse you of hitting her in the head.  I know this is the 'bettering board', but I am just keeping it real for you.

Now for some resources on self harm, these are the same resources that 988 / 741741 use, and they have been vetted. 

https://www.crisistextline.org/resources/#resources-13


All of this sounds incredibly emotionally draining for you.  Make sure that you do an abundance of self-care, whatever that looks like for you, to keep your emotional energy up so you can look after yourself, and have enough left over for her too.

My heart goes out to you, it sounds like she and you too are in a really bad place right now.  It can get better with perseverance and boundaries.

Continue asking questions.  Let us know how things go, as she (and you) are at a critical stage to get this turned around right now.  She needs to put in the work, and you need to be her emotional support.

Take care.

SD

[livednlearned]

She has just started therapy and is turning some DBT techniques, but feel this is very early days.

Does she seem open to the possibility that she has BPD?

It's great that she's willing to see a therapist. Was this her idea?

Learning to be in a BPD relationship involves skills that are not intuitive and must be learned. You also mention feeling exhausted, which isn't uncommon. BPD caregivers are among the most exhausted. Do you have a therapist for yourself?