Undiagnosed Mother

[Our abuse recovery guide]

Hello all! First time posting or interacting on this discussion board. I'll start off by stating what made me want to speak with someone a bit more educated on the topic. My mother has always had emotional outbursts since I can remember, when I was very young the fits were a bit more controlled. But for the last 20+ years, it's only gotten worse. I've always been her emotional rock, and to the point of discomfort on my end especially due to past trauma that I'm still healing from. Anyway, in my teen years it was at the worst I've ever seen it, I'd say one thing or have a tone and it was over. She'd cry and tell me I don't love her or don't care for her. She hit me quite a bit in that time as well, and I'm talking punches from a 6ft 350 lbs woman when I was sixteen. A few times she threatened  to take her life right in front of me and said it'd be my fault. There's so much more to it and even now, the guilt trips and outbursts are uncontrollable somedays. She said they diagnosed her with Depression, she won't go into details about it but I'm rather familiar with depression. When I was sixteen my best friend committed suicide and didn't say goodbye. My mother NEVER talked about depression when I was a child, and when my best friend died she couldn't understand the shock and she wasn't sensitive to it at all. I've brought up her diagnoses and BPD but she shuts it down everytime. This is all confusing and not worded well but I had no intention of writing this so please bare with me. Any time she has an outburst she just says she hasn't been taking her medication but won't disclose what medication it is. And to an extent it's not my business but she is my mother and my only family and I worry about whether or not I have some signs of it as I've been going through some emotions myself. Its hard to go into detail without a place to start but I'd love to have a conversation and break things down a little. Apologies if this is a mess.

[xBluex]

Hello all! First time posting or interacting on this discussion board. I'll start off by stating what made me want to speak with someone a bit more educated on the topic. My mother has always had emotional outbursts since I can remember, when I was very young the fits were a bit more controlled. But for the last 20+ years, it's only gotten worse. I've always been her emotional rock, and to the point of discomfort on my end especially due to past trauma that I'm still healing from. Anyway, in my teen years it was at the worst I've ever seen it, I'd say one thing or have a tone and it was over. She'd cry and tell me I don't love her or don't care for her. She hit me quite a bit in that time as well, and I'm talking punches from a 6ft 350 lbs woman when I was sixteen. A few times she threatened  to take her life right in front of me and said it'd be my fault. There's so much more to it and even now, the guilt trips and outbursts are uncontrollable somedays. She said they diagnosed her with Depression, she won't go into details about it but I'm rather familiar with depression. When I was sixteen my best friend committed suicide and didn't say goodbye. My mother NEVER talked about depression when I was a child, and when my best friend died she couldn't understand the shock and she wasn't sensitive to it at all. I've brought up her diagnoses and BPD but she shuts it down everytime. This is all confusing and not worded well but I had no intention of writing this so please bare with me. Any time she has an outburst she just says she hasn't been taking her medication but won't disclose what medication it is. And to an extent it's not my business but she is my mother and my only family and I worry about whether or not I have some signs of it as I've been going through some emotions myself. Its hard to go into detail without a place to start but I'd love to have a conversation and break things down a little. Apologies if this is a mess.

[Notwendy]

Welcome to this board. It would help to know a bit more context. Please don't post any identifying info but as you can see, so much of our stories are similar that if posting general info, it applies to a lot of people.

For many of us here, we don't have a confirmed diagnosis of BPD for our parent. It's possible that they are diagnosed but don't tell us. Also, some counselors will work with other diagnoses such as "depression" even if it is in addition to BPD. We aren't professionals and so can't diagnose anyone. We look at behaviors and relationship dynamics and see that this fits with BPD and so learning about BPD is helpful to us, but doesn't "diagnose" them. Some of us do have the information that our relative has been diagnosed with BPD.

What is your situation with your mother now? Do you live with her? Is she self sufficient? Is she with your father or not? Again, don't post identifying information like location. You could be living together or apart anywhere.

[xBluex]

Yes, apologies. I realized I was getting a bit flustered trying to get it all out in one post. There's so much to it but I'll start off by saying, my mother and father were never together. She was a single parent until I turned six and she married her now husband after six months of knowing him. Turned out he was a very toxic drug addict and has made our lives hell for the past 19 years. She loves him regardless of every awful thing he's done to both her and me. Prior to him she was a lot healthier as far as her mood changes or needing constant attention. After they split for the first time, she leaned on me hard. I had already experienced so much that I SHOULD NOT have seen. Since then, even with them getting back together, she's treated me like her husband. I am a SA victim, happened when I was 14, so I'm very uncomfortable with affection from everyone except my partner. My mother has not really been there for me in regards to that, the man that did it was my cousin, and my mother couldn't accept being a social outcast so she kept quiet. Now she tells me I don't love her and I don't care about her when I don't wanna sleep in the same bed with her or make a smooch sound before I hang up. I'm 25 years old and I've been living on my own since I turned 18 because in my teenage years she was out of control. She would get so angry over one little conversation or the tone in my voice, and she'd come in and destroy everything in my room and tell me I don't love her and I'd be better off with my father (an awful man, and she knows I hate him).  Then when I got with my now partner of 6 years (prior to moving out) she would get jealous, she'd come into my room with no warning and sit down on my bed to "chat" even if we were naked or sleeping. We literally built a door to the hallway and it was down within two weeks. Mind you she had me paying for my own food and toiletries since I was sixteen, I was paying bills at the house and she refused to give me space. So I moved out, and for a short period of time I moved into my M.I.L.'s. That was it, she threatened to kill herself because of me and because no one loves her(not the first time). It's so bad that I can't even have my M.I.L. at my birthday party without my mother thinking I "chose" another family. Yet she will guilt trip me into having a birthday party at her house and then not even throw a party. And any time I've EVER tried to sit down and tell her how I feel or how the things she says and does affect those around her, she goes into hyper victim mode. Everyone hates her, she's so stupid, I wouldn't care if she died tomorrow. Which hurts even more because she is my only family. There are so many situtations and examples I could give but I think all at once is too much. For context, she's 44 and I'm her only daughter. Anyway, it all comes down to my birthday this year. I just moved up North which is quite far from where I was, it's only been about 7 months but she is hell bent on coming up this July for my birthday. She's been behind on rent for about a year now and I've even sent her money to help out but she just had weight loss surgery after an entire life of being 400 lbs and shopping for her new body is her current addiction. Anyway, the total cost it'd take for her to travel here and back is around 600$. Factor the fact that she HAS to bring her dog with her, her car, and her drug addict husband. Whom ruined my last birthday party by getting high and groping my fiance out of nowhere and then offering me to his drug dealer. I told her the dog CANNOT stay in my apartment and she hadn't even told me about her husband coming until a week ago. She's got all these plans in her head for what we can do, but I've told her a million times I cannot take off of work or I will be fired. She thinks that after working a 50 hour week that I'll want to spend morning to night on the town with her. Not once has she asked what I wanted and with her needing the hotel and wanting to do so much the trip will cost upwards of $2000. I bit the bullet today and spoke to her husband, apparently he's fully against the idea as well. He said they'd have to skip rent to do the trip but she won't listen to him. When I try to bring it up she just pulls the "you don't love me or miss me" card. It's a huge mess and I'm just trying to figure out how to have my mom back. I don't think I've gotten to talk to my mom since I was a literal child, this woman just isn't her and it kills me because I can't even talk to her on the phone without it becoming about her or her ignoring me and talking to her husband and then asking why we don't talk or I don't call. Any advice or other questions are welcome. Like I said, it's like trying to compress 26 years into one post. I apologize and don't intend to offend or assume anything. As I said she's undiagnosed as far as I know but I'm not her parent or keeper so it's really not owed information, all I can do is try new techniques to combat what I see. Thank you for any and all comments, I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this.

[Notwendy]

I think you are at a stage where you are becoming your own person and not an extension of your mother. This is very normal- at 26 to have your own place, choose to live with a partner, be self sufficient.

A parent's job is to meet a child's needs, not the other way around. It's been said that to a parent with a PD- they perceive the child as meeting their needs. With poor boundaries, the child isn't seen as their own separate individual but an extension of themselves. Young children are naturally enmeshed with their mother- for survival- as they are dependent on the mother but are in the process of becoming autonomous early on.

What appears to have gone on for you is enmeshment and poor boundaries on the part of your mother. You being a separate individual and becoming independent is perceived by her as a form of abandonment and not meeting her needs, but if you were to not become your own person and only meet her needs, it would be detrimental to yourself.

You need to believe that you aren't doing anything wrong by being an adult on your own. What you are doing is appropriate for your age- regardless of how your mother sees it.

You want your mom back- understandably. Look at it another way though- you want your mother as you remember her at age 6. At age 6 - you had a different relationship- you were not an independent adult. You also had a perception of her from the viewpoint of a child. Now as an adult, your perception is different. She is still your mother but if she has a disorder that affects her relationships with other adults, this is also going to influence her relationship with you.

Have you considered counseling? This may seem odd to you- if she's the one with the disordered behavior (undiagnosed or diagnosed)- why should you be the one to get counseling? Because it helps you be able to have boundaries and manage this kind of relationship.

[xBluex]

I believe she does see it as abandonment, but as I said, I still have resentment for her consistently putting a man over me all my life. So the guilt trips hurt, they definitely work sometimes but most of the time it just makes me regret talking to her. I know for a fact that I need some therapy or counseling, I have a lot of anger inside that I'm trying so hard to deal with. Anger for the injustices that were done to me and to those around me, anger for the lack of responsibility taken. Among other vaild reasons to speak with someone, the anger alone is my biggest issue right now. It makes me wonder if I myself will become like my mother, I think it's a huge step that I'm able to identify moments where I may be overreacting or highly emotional and I correct the action but it doesn't change the rage inside me. I'm sure on the outside I'm very sweet and gentle but on the inside I'm an island. Even my mother tells me that I remove people from my life and one day I'll regret it. But that's the only way I know how, if someone is hurting me or doesn't wish for my well being then why would I want them in my life? She feeds off of the drama and the attention, I can't stand it, it only gives me anger. Honestly, your comment about how I viewed her and wanting a version of her from so long ago, it struck me. You're absolutely right and I hadn't even thought about that. I've struggled with accepting the change of those we love, how one day you can know someone so well and the next they're a stranger. I guess I just hadn't applied that to my mother, and it's very sad. There's a very good chance I'll never get that version of her back again. Not to mention I think the need to be someone's everything has passed down. Maybe not in my romantic relationships but it's played into friendships and my relationship with my mother. Why wouldn't she choose me? Why a man that didn't love her and still doesn't? Why choose him, the man who beat us and left her for her best friend... over me? And why can she not see how mentally damaging that is to a child? Questions I already know the answer to but it feels good to ask.

[Notwendy]

I believe she does see it as abandonment, but as I said, I still have resentment for her consistently putting a man over me all my life.

Among other vaild reasons to speak with someone, the anger alone is my biggest issue right now. It makes me wonder if I myself will become like my mother, I think it's a huge step that I'm able to identify moments where I may be overreacting or highly emotional and I correct the action but it doesn't change the rage inside me.

 Not to mention I think the need to be someone's everything has passed down.

Why wouldn't she choose me? Why a man that didn't love her and still doesn't? Why choose him, the man who beat us and left her for her best friend... over me? And why can she not see how mentally damaging that is to a child? Questions I already know the answer to but it feels good to ask.

So, lots to unpack here. Having raised adult children, children begin to establish autonomy quickly- as infants they learn to feed themselves, and at 2 they want to pick out their own clothes to wear and decide what they want to eat. By the teen years, it's more complex- and at first, they may be overly critical of their parent until they feel more secure about whot they are as separate individuals. This isn't easy on a parent but emotionally stable parents can respond, as adults. As children, parents seem to be all powerful and knowing.

By about your age, we see our parents as we see other adults- we see their strong points, we see aspects of them that we don't want to emulate. Our parents are human, not flawless as we imagined. Your 6 year old idea about your mother is the idealized one. Now, you have to readjust your views of her as she is.

I think we always want a mother to love us unconditionally, to protect us and to choose us, but what if our mothers can not do this? I think we do feel what we feel- anger, sadness, grief. Truly though, your mother's behavior was not about you. It's her own disorder. That doesn't mean her behavior is acceptable and you don't have to think it is but if you can understand it's that she herself has this limitation, and it isn't about you at all, you can take it less personally. I also think it's sad that my mother can not love in the way I wish she could but it is due to her own emotional issues, and I feel sad for her that she struggles with them. However, since her feelings are not about me or anyone else- I can not fix them for her.

I also can relate to being afraid I might grow up to act like her, as sometimes things I did or said remind me of her. We are not our mothers but they are a significant role model for us. Of course we learn some behaviors from them. This is where counseling can help- if we learn certain behaviors that we want to change- we can learn different ones. Counseling helps because, a counselor is objective. We may need someone to point things out for us.

The good news is that you are aware of these concerns and can work with a counselor. You are not your mother- you are you- a different individual, but if there's been enmeshment, it's sometimes difficult to know what is what.

[Teach21]

Now she tells me I don't love her and I don't care about her when I don't wanna sleep in the same bed with her or make a smooch sound before I hang up.

Thank you for posting that. I slept with my mom when I was little because I was afraid of the dark. As I got it older, it made me uncomfortable because she would make me feel guilty if I wanted to sleep in my own bed. I felt like she was using me for her own needs instead of looking out for mine. All through high school, I had to kiss her goodnight and tell her I loved her. If I didn't, she took it as rejection and that I didn't love her. I really wanted to separate from her and just say good night and go to bed but couldn't. She gets hurt because I don't love her the way she wants me to. I feel guilty but also wonder if she ever thinks about loving me how I need. I've never heard that from someone else and it helps knowing I'm not alone in that.

[Notwendy]

This is an example of the child being expected to meet the parent's need and not the other way around. Also affection can be too much or too little. My BPD mother shows no physical affection-not a hug, or kiss, and I don't recall ever sleeping in her bed.

We didn't co-sleep with the kids- they had their own beds, but when they were little, they'd sometimes wake up and crawl into our beds at night for their own comfort- if they had a scary dream, and I knew this was for their comfort, not mine. This naturally stopped around adolescence as their need was for autonomy and my task was to allow this and respect their new boundaries. It is not a rejection.

After that, the only time I can recall sharing a bed or room was if we were travelling and had to all stay in a hotel and only for one night. This was not about anyone's emotional need- we just needed a place to sleep and it is rare we did that.

One time, we travelled for the night before my father's funeral. I was an emotional wreck and accidentally booked hotel rooms without enough beds for us. I was about to book another room when my aunt, who was staying in the same hotel spoke up- she had a room to herself with a king size bed and said "just come stay with me" and needing a place to sleep, I did. I was so emotionally distraught I hardly slept anyway, but what stood out to me was that- this is the first time I ever experienced this motherly gesture. (as to why I didn't stay at my mother's house- I don't feel comfortable staying with her and she had other family members there).

I have not shared a bed with my own mother but I remember this because I think this is what it must be like to do that.