Trying to set boundaries and divorce threats escalating - scared/worried

[deeperwell]

One month ago I realized my partner has uBPD. We have been married for more than  10 years, together for longer. We have a son who is my favorite person in the whole world (he's 10). I finally see that I have been in denial for a long time, unable or unwilling to see dysfunctional behavior as patterns and not just isolated incidents. I see that I have been blaming myself and isolating myself. I see that I have been completely out of touch with my own needs and desires in order to pacify and appease my spouse to avoid his rage and mood swings and the emotional/verbal abuse. I also now see that it's not my fault (thanks to Stop Caretaking the Borderline, it's like she lived in my house and wrote about my life!).

So this week I decided to test out guidance in the book. I am prioritizing myself and trying to establish boundaries. It is going badly. The divorce threats feel so intense and chaotic. The accusations and criticisms of my shortcomings are worse than normal. I see that I am being manipulated and I don't want to be anymore. He refused to respect my calm request for space and then hounded me to "talk" until I lost my temper and yelled. So I told him I didn't feel good and that if he couldn't respect my request for space I was going to leave and come back in the morning. I have never actually done this before but this time I decided that what I needed was to be with a friend who loved me and that's what I did. So in some ways this feels like progress (me) and in others regression (him).

I am worried though that the books are wrong and that he actually means his divorce threats this time. I am not ready to throw in the towel nor am I prepared yet to end it. For those of you who have been at this for longer than I have - does it get better? Can the way I respond to his meltdowns and rage and threats actually result in a different way of being together? I am hungry to hear about your real experiences. This message board has already been so clarifying and I am relieved to know I am not alone.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Harrisps]

Hi Deeperwell,

I'm sorry you going through so much and clearly don't want throw the towel in.

I'm not sure i can offer the best advice but I feel in a similar position. You are definitely not alone and there's a lot of empathetic support here.

My wife is splitting atm, i am evil and should leave her. Last night was bad, rage, lashing out, keeping me awake etc. I try to remove my emotion now and realise much of this is the result of a disorder. I can feel more sympathetic this way but at the same time it doesn't feel like a regular life. We have 2 children (6 and 4), it's been alot harder since having children, there were problems before but never escalated to where things can do now - i'm constantly torn as to whether to keep going or try and make a new start but when i have been pushed in the past to leave and believe the divorce threats etc. it quickly seems to revert back to not wanting things to end. - in my situation i believe she loves me, loves our children and doesn't want all this chaos but for whatever reason this disorder takes over. I love her and feel she has been robbed of a life feeling more adjusted in the world.

This is only my experience but as convincing as the threats seem they usually turn out to be a coping/defence mechanism that is quickly regretted.

How are things today? hope you have a better day/night.

H





 

[kells76]

Hello deeperwell, just adding my welcome along with Harrisps

The first thing I thought of when reading your post was the concept of extinction bursts. This is a normal response to a change in a relational dynamic, just like what you're going through right now.

One part of that thread that stood out to me was this:

As enablers, we play a role in the bad behavior in the relationship by rewarding or accepting it.  We don't do this intentionally, but when someone pushes our buttons and we respond with the desired result, then we are effectively rewarding the behavior.  This is human nature.

As a result, dysfunction is often programmed into a our relationship -  by this continued repetitive interaction of the partners.

Now, as United for Now says, if we suddenly you change our response - even if the change is for the better (e.g., we don't engage) - or partner make accelerate the conflict (burst) trying to get the typical response.  This is human nature, too.

The important thing for us to know is to expect the acceleration (burst) and understand that it will often extinguish if we stay consistent with or improved behavior.

Like you mentioned, you weren't intentionally rewarding his bad behavior -- yet it was going on, and now you're trying to make healthy changes. Most of the time, we must simply have the fortitude and commitment to tolerate our own discomfort as the extinction burst progresses, knowing that generally speaking, it'll die out when we don't accidentally give in.

Sometimes things get "worse" when we make a change... kids would hate it at first if we had been serving chicken nuggets and chips for dinner but switched to kale and quinoa... but we can make changes for the better and we can tolerate the discomfort of the transitional period.

There's a lot to unpack in your situation -- you're not alone in wondering about threats of divorce -- but I'll pause there to give you a chance to read and digest  

[deeperwell]

Thank you Kells and Harris for these thoughtful replies. The link to reading more about extinction bursts and distress tolerance skills are extremely helpful.

Things feel not so much better today except that I am proud of myself for attempting to hold a boundary. We didn't really speak this morning other than his continued threats of divorce. When he got home from work and I was outside in our backyard, he locked me out of the house - I didn't have my cell phone or my keys and felt myself beginning to panic but remained calm and 5 minutes later he unlocked the door only to ask me to come inside and talk about how we will end things between us.

I'm trying to be a grey rock. I'm trying to remain calm. I'm trying not to react. But he is extremely intelligent (albeit emotionally limited/impaired) and continuing to bait me to talk to him and I keep saying I can't while things feel heated. But that seems to make him even angrier. I am trying to sit with my discomfort but my stomach has been in knots all day and my heart is beating so fast and I feel absolutely awful.

How do you validate their feelings while they're threatening to end the relationship????? How do you get out of this awful spiral?

I know that if I don't change and I continue to enable, there's no hope of our relationship remaining intact because now I clearly see how emotionally abusive it's been for so many years and I can no longer ignore that. I've suffered so much self-blame and I know I deserve more than what I have. And yet I love all the good parts of my partner and that's why I'm holding on. I think I'll regret not trying to make it better before giving up.

[kells76]

Hi again deeperwell;

I'm trying to remain calm. I'm trying not to react. But he is extremely intelligent (albeit emotionally limited/impaired) and continuing to bait me to talk to him and I keep saying I can't while things feel heated. But that seems to make him even angrier. I am trying to sit with my discomfort but my stomach has been in knots all day and my heart is beating so fast and I feel absolutely awful.

Tell me more about how that looks. What does he say or do that feels like bait? What do you do after you say "I can't while things feel heated?"

How do you validate their feelings while they're threatening to end the relationship????? How do you get out of this awful spiral?

That's a great question, and one that comes up a lot here. An analogy might be: "How do I use a screwdriver to hammer in this nail?"

Emotional validation is a tool, and a good one... at the appropriate time. It isn't the only tool in the toolbelt, though! Not every situation calls for (or is benefitted by) validation.

When there's abusive behavior (words/actions) going on, toxicity, escalation, and/or high conflict, trying to "validate our way out of it" is like trying to use a screwdriver to hammer in a nail -- not the right tool for the moment.

We are allowed to protect ourselves, and the relationship, through true boundaries, which are rules we have for ourselves, that are 100% under our own control.

We might decide, based on our values, that we won't stick around to be exposed to circular arguments, abusive language, or insults (just as an example). A true boundary might be us saying to ourselves in our heads: "I choose to take a break when a circular argument begins. I choose to leave the room or house and return when I feel calm."

So, going back to your example of the conflict -- talk us through it a bit more, fill out the details (kind of like a movie script: he said X, I said Y, he said Z, etc), and I bet we can work together with you to find some different approaches... using the right tools for the job 

[deeperwell]

Thanks, Kells. Since I have begun trying to set boundaries and also prioritize my own needs (literally just a few days), he has said things like:

"What's wrong with you?"
"I have been telling you for years what I need and you clearly don't care about our marriage."
"You're flushing our marriage. Why won't you talk to me?"
"How are we going to tell my family that we're divorcing?"
"This is over. I'm done. I want to end this."
"You clearly have given up on us."
"You're an idiot for walking away from our marriage."
"I hope you get hit by a car." (upon leaving to take a walk the other night)
"Cunt."

I have been responding by saying things like:

"I care about you and our marriage, and I don't want to be spoken to with disrespect."
"I asked you to give me space and when you couldn't meet that request, I told you I would leave, and I did."
"I understand that you feel frustrated and angry."
"I don't want to discuss getting divorced."
"I'm feeling like things are too heated right now and I need some space/a break."
Neutral statements such as: "Okay" and "I'm sorry you feel that way."

What do you think are the right "tools" for the moment? He has a habitual pattern of threatening breaking up/divorce, it's been going on since we were dating. I have always begged for his forgiveness and responded by telling him all the ways I'll be better and change but I see that if I continue that pattern, even though it does seem to calm him down in the short-term, it's not making anything better in the long-term.

[kells76]

As odd as it may sound, I wonder if it might help to face into that fear, to defang it?

I'm assuming you're in the USA?

For better or for worse, in the USA in the year 2024, he doesn't need your cooperation or agreement to divorce. He can do that unilaterally at any time. I'm not saying that to increase fear, but to sort of baseline things -- there isn't some perfect word or phrase or approach that gives you control over his choice to stay in the relationship.

Yes, we can make things worse (often accidentally), but one of the hardest lessons to learn about BPD isn't about the technical nuances or the psychological terms or about the perfect tool... it's that we have no control over what anyone else says, does, thinks, or wants.

His threats currently have weight with you -- you're afraid of losing the relationship. But it's never been something you can hold onto all on your own. It would be interesting if facing that fear might deflate the power of his threats?

Of course, still more to unpack there -- but I'd be interested to hear more of your thoughts?

[deeperwell]

I am in the USA. I am not sure what is compelling me to be so intent on staying at the moment. Your question about my own fears is a good one. I honestly don't really know yet. Some of my insistence on staying is because I can't let go or ignore the good parts which are SO GOOD. But I also see that the pattern of emotional and psychological abuse have been so harmful to me. Why do I subject myself to it again and again? I didn't see it as abuse for the longest time but now I do and it starting to evolve how I think about my own needs, desires and worth.

I go back and forth to wanting to keep our family intact for our child, but then asking myself what am I modeling by staying?

We tried to have a calm conversation a bit ago and for a moment I thought we were getting somewhere but then we got into a circular black hole of blame so I went to the grocery store. Sigh.

Grateful to have found this validating and supportive community.

[jaded7]

As odd as it may sound, I wonder if it might help to face into that fear, to defang it?

Yes, we can make things worse (often accidentally), but one of the hardest lessons to learn about BPD isn't about the technical nuances or the psychological terms or about the perfect tool... it's that we have no control over what anyone else says, does, thinks, or wants.

His threats currently have weight with you -- you're afraid of losing the relationship. But it's never been something you can hold onto all on your own. It would be interesting if facing that fear might deflate the power of his threats?

As a person who's been around the block with this kind of treatment you are experiencing, what Kells says here is really on the mark. The FEAR of losing her, the FEAR of being heartbroken played a very big role in my relationship. That fear made me allow things that I would never allow from others. And allow things I know she would have never allowed from me to her, or to her friends if they described her same behavior to them from a partner.

Her beliefs and judgements about me were HERS, and hers alone. I had no control over them, as I found out. Of course, I did like you did with the apologizing and taking blame. I tried to explain myself and the the situation, or what really happened or what really was said. But that's JADEing, and it not only doesn't work it makes things worse. I discovered that.

So when you realize you have no control over their thoughts, beliefs, behaviors about you or the relationship, you realize it's a very one-way street. Which is not a relationship.

The key, for me, was/is about building self-belief, in who I am and what I stand for.  If I had NO fears about losing her, I would have solidified my boundaries about yelling and name-calling, blaming and put downs. I did try boundaries, but they were ignored. But I let them be ignored.

In the absence of fear about losing the relationship- and I know that's a huge fear-how would you respond to his abusive behavior?

Good for you for recognizing abuse. That's always an important first step. And the things you describe are very much abuse.

[thankful person]

Hi deeperwell, and welcome,
Congratulations on taking these first steps away from caretaking, i know it is very scary.
I read the stop caretaking book 3 years ago and I am a devout follower. What I can add to observations about extinction bursts etc.. We are told that pwbpds have many short intense relationships. That clearly is not necessarily true as on this site there are many who have been married for many years. What it means is that, when they find someone who will put up with them, it seems that’s when they stay in a relationship. Sometimes they may leave if they met someone else but this seems less common when they’ve had a loyal caretaker.
But of course they won’t like your actions. In fact your actions represent a loss of control that they are terrified of. Our youngest is now 1.5yrs and for the first year of his life (well into my “caretaking recovery journey”, i was told daily by my wife that she did not feel loved, desired, wanted, supported.. i did everything wrong or didn’t say the right things or get anything right… We’re still together but things are better now. we have good and bad days but i’m fighting single-handedly for my marriage. I don’t take her divorce threats seriously after all this time. i just validate, validate, validate, look after myself, and try to keep things calm for the children.
Good luck with your journey.

[HurtAndTired]

Hi deeperwell,

I'm so sorry to hear what you are going through, but unfortunately, it is very familiar territory for me. I completely agree with Kells' assessment that this is likely an extinction burst. My wife has gone through them ever since I laid down very strong boundaries about a year ago. They will eventually pass, but you have to ride them out and not falter. Giving in just once and "going along to get along" will result in your spouse receiving intermittent reinforcement. In other words, he will learn that if he just keeps at you long enough and strong enough, you will cave. It is imperative that once a boundary is placed that it is enforced 100% of the time!

As to the divorce threats, I have experienced those as well. They used to be intermittent, usually when my wife was not receiving the reaction that she desired from me and decided to escalate her behavior to try to get that reaction out of me (begging her not to leave, promising to change, apologizing for things that I had not done, etc.) Once my boundaries were laid, she did not like them and went into a prolonged extinction burst (or more accurately a series of extinction bursts.) During this time the divorce threats became more and more frequent. I finally called her bluff to end them. I do not recommend doing this unless you are ready for your H to go through with his threats, however.

I had reached the point where I realized that there was nothing that I could do to stop her from divorcing me if she chose to do so. Furthermore, I realized that the constant threats were causing me more distress than if she had actually initiated divorce proceedings. I also strongly suspected that she was bluffing. She could not maintain her lifestyle without my job and had a good chance of losing custody of our S3 to me if she went through with her threat. So, one day when she trotted out the divorce threat once again, I responded differently than my usual "I won't talk about that with you." Instead, I said "I will not file for divorce against you, so if you want to file for divorce you need to contact an attorney and file the papers. If you do that I will be forced to hire my own attorney. At that point, we will no longer speak of the divorce. Our attorneys will communicate with each other and we will speak through them. I will never speak about a divorce with you again except through an attorney."

That was several months ago, and she has not brought it up since. By inviting her to follow through with her threat and telling her how I would respond, I effectively "defanged" the threat and removed that tool from her toolbelt. I showed her that I was not afraid of her threats anymore. I took the chance that she would follow through because I was at the end of my rope and would have preferred to have an actionable path forward, whatever that may be, compared to having the constant threat of divorce hanging over my head like the sword of Damocles. It was a calculated risk, but it paid off. YMMV.

I hope this helps.

HurtAndTired