need some help with BPD ex-wife and child

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Hi.  I have been on this forum off and on, but I really need some help here.  I have been divorced for about 5 years, with a six year old son.  I have him for about 1/3 of the time, and he is with her 2/3 of the time.  I don’t know if my ex wife has BPD, but she has some signs of it, from researching what to look for.  Specifically, this is what is going on:

I also apologize this is long…I have ALOT going on.  If you don’t want to go through the entire thing, that’s OK…any advice for any paragraph works for me.

1.   She has called me stupid, moronic, and things even worse.   However, at the same time, she seems to want me over some and to hang out with her.  I do spend some time with her when my son is with her, as I like the extra time with my son and she can be pleasant when she is in a good mood, but I am worn out dealing with mood swings.  Does she really think I am this terrible person you think?  If so, why want to spend some time with me? Yesterday she told me her biggest regret was not moving with our child when he was younger so I wouldn’t be there to “screw him up”.

2.   She hates my girlfriend, with though my GF is a perfectly fine person and they never met.  What gives?

3.   My kid (who thank god is OK) seems to be picking up on that things that mom is mean, yells at me, not nice etc… What should or shouldn’t be said to him?

4.   I am thinking about filing for primary custody, but it sounds like that is an uphill battle, or moving right by her so I can get 50/50 custody.  [an aside here is that I wish I pushed more aggressively for custody, but the deck seemed to have been stacked against me at the time, and I got the best settlement I think I could have with the hand I was dealt] If I do something like this, what should I expect from her?  If you had a custody litigation fight, how did you prep for it?  I have about 40 pages of documentation in a notebook (all typed) but initially she got a favorable custody decision due to the fact that the judge was pro-mom, the child was young, and other things.  I have plenty of witnesses who can say I am a great father, all of her neighbors and parents of kids where my son is when he is w/ her know me and have good things to say about me, and I am active in the school/teacher etc…

5.   How do you deal with BPD rage and anger?  I find it hard not to get angry and upset when she lashes out at me, which often seems to be over nothing... it is possible that I am amiss and I am totally misdjudigng things and she is lashing out at me when I truly did something wrong, but I really have trouble seeing not only things I drop the ball on which I get yelled at for, but also some things she has a gripe with seem very trivial, at least to me, and hopefully by an objective person.

6.   She also seems to have a totally different recollection on events and things.  Is this common?  She concludes things which (to me) make absolutely no sense from what our custody agreement says (she tried to tell me if I have him for an extended period of time in October it counts towards the summer) to mis-calculating the number of times I went to my kid’s soccer practice (only missed about 2 sessions) and the number of times she went to his practices and games (about 2-3 times)

7.   She is convinced that our son needs to go to Harvard and if he is not in all these extracurricular activities, regardless of whether my son wants to do it or not, his life will be bad.  I do not allow her to sign my son up for any activities during my time with him (which is each weekend and various weeks during the year) so she can’t really sign him up for things w/o my consent, but she is pushing this hard.  Is this a BPD issue or what?  If I tell her to back off, I am made out to be the bad parent, not caring, and that basically I want my son to have the same bad life and bad job I have.  (note that I have a terminal degree and have a stable job and have kept my job for 6 years)

8.   My son had trouble with a 1st grade reading comp test.  I talked to the teacher about it and she is convinced that my son is fine (due to his general performance at school) and chalked it up to him not paying attention and nothing else.  So, I am satisfied that he is fine.  I tried to have an intelligible conversation with my ex-wife about this, and it was turned around on me that I do not do anything smart with my son (which is not true), I do not read with my son (which is not true) and basically I am incapable of assisting my son in school and the entire thing is my fault.  I don’t know how to co-parent with her, and don’t even know if I should.  I would have been happy to have a conversation with the ex-wife about the need to instill in my son to take these tests seriously and to think when you read, but I was unable to.

9.   Should I get the school counselor involved?  There was a major blow up we had last year my kid witnessed, and I discussed w/ school and they talked to my son about it as well, and I am determined for that not to happen again.

Basically, any help here would be appreciated.  I am at a wits and finally want to get off the  hamster wheel with her, but need some other help how.  I have been seeing a counselor as well, and he has talked to me extensively about power and using my power I have with her.

Also, a question about the future here... .  I am afraid my kid will see me as the secondary parent, even though I have no evidence he does now, andhe seems comfortable discussing anythign with me.  If the child is with her 2/3 of the time, how ill my relationship be with my child when he is older if I do not get a 50/50 custody or primary custody?  As far as custody goes, even though she is nuts, she doesnt SEEM nuts, if that makes any sense, and she can project herself in a very sympathetic way.  I dont want my son to ever think I am the second parent, and I dont think he does,t but I am curious if older kids fully get that their BPD parent is like, and what to expect in the future with my son.

[samnc]

Hi.  I have been on this forum off and on, but I really need some help here.  I have been divorced for about 5 years, with a six year old son.  I have him for about 1/3 of the time, and he is with her 2/3 of the time.  I don’t know if my ex wife has BPD, but she has some signs of it, from researching what to look for.  Specifically, this is what is going on:

I also apologize this is long…I have ALOT going on.  If you don’t want to go through the entire thing, that’s OK…any advice for any paragraph works for me.

1.   She has called me stupid, moronic, and things even worse.   However, at the same time, she seems to want me over some and to hang out with her.  I do spend some time with her when my son is with her, as I like the extra time with my son and she can be pleasant when she is in a good mood, but I am worn out dealing with mood swings.  Does she really think I am this terrible person you think?  If so, why want to spend some time with me? Yesterday she told me her biggest regret was not moving with our child when he was younger so I wouldn’t be there to “screw him up”.

2.   She hates my girlfriend, with though my GF is a perfectly fine person and they never met.  What gives?

3.   My kid (who thank god is OK) seems to be picking up on that things that mom is mean, yells at me, not nice etc… What should or shouldn’t be said to him?

4.   I am thinking about filing for primary custody, but it sounds like that is an uphill battle, or moving right by her so I can get 50/50 custody.  [an aside here is that I wish I pushed more aggressively for custody, but the deck seemed to have been stacked against me at the time, and I got the best settlement I think I could have with the hand I was dealt] If I do something like this, what should I expect from her?  If you had a custody litigation fight, how did you prep for it?  I have about 40 pages of documentation in a notebook (all typed) but initially she got a favorable custody decision due to the fact that the judge was pro-mom, the child was young, and other things.  I have plenty of witnesses who can say I am a great father, all of her neighbors and parents of kids where my son is when he is w/ her know me and have good things to say about me, and I am active in the school/teacher etc…

5.   How do you deal with BPD rage and anger?  I find it hard not to get angry and upset when she lashes out at me, which often seems to be over nothing... it is possible that I am amiss and I am totally misdjudigng things and she is lashing out at me when I truly did something wrong, but I really have trouble seeing not only things I drop the ball on which I get yelled at for, but also some things she has a gripe with seem very trivial, at least to me, and hopefully by an objective person.

6.   She also seems to have a totally different recollection on events and things.  Is this common?  She concludes things which (to me) make absolutely no sense from what our custody agreement says (she tried to tell me if I have him for an extended period of time in October it counts towards the summer) to mis-calculating the number of times I went to my kid’s soccer practice (only missed about 2 sessions) and the number of times she went to his practices and games (about 2-3 times)

7.   She is convinced that our son needs to go to Harvard and if he is not in all these extracurricular activities, regardless of whether my son wants to do it or not, his life will be bad.  I do not allow her to sign my son up for any activities during my time with him (which is each weekend and various weeks during the year) so she can’t really sign him up for things w/o my consent, but she is pushing this hard.  Is this a BPD issue or what?  If I tell her to back off, I am made out to be the bad parent, not caring, and that basically I want my son to have the same bad life and bad job I have.  (note that I have a terminal degree and have a stable job and have kept my job for 6 years)

8.   My son had trouble with a 1st grade reading comp test.  I talked to the teacher about it and she is convinced that my son is fine (due to his general performance at school) and chalked it up to him not paying attention and nothing else.  So, I am satisfied that he is fine.  I tried to have an intelligible conversation with my ex-wife about this, and it was turned around on me that I do not do anything smart with my son (which is not true), I do not read with my son (which is not true) and basically I am incapable of assisting my son in school and the entire thing is my fault.  I don’t know how to co-parent with her, and don’t even know if I should.  I would have been happy to have a conversation with the ex-wife about the need to instill in my son to take these tests seriously and to think when you read, but I was unable to.

9.   Should I get the school counselor involved?  There was a major blow up we had last year my kid witnessed, and I discussed w/ school and they talked to my son about it as well, and I am determined for that not to happen again.

Basically, any help here would be appreciated.  I am at a wits and finally want to get off the  hamster wheel with her, but need some other help how.  I have been seeing a counselor as well, and he has talked to me extensively about power and using my power I have with her.

Also, a question about the future here... .  I am afraid my kid will see me as the secondary parent, even though I have no evidence he does now, andhe seems comfortable discussing anythign with me.  If the child is with her 2/3 of the time, how ill my relationship be with my child when he is older if I do not get a 50/50 custody or primary custody?  As far as custody goes, even though she is nuts, she doesnt SEEM nuts, if that makes any sense, and she can project herself in a very sympathetic way.  I dont want my son to ever think I am the second parent, and I dont think he does,t but I am curious if older kids fully get that their BPD parent is like, and what to expect in the future with my son.

[Justadude]

she has unresolved emotional problems that she takes out on you and probably your child. she most likely needs professional help to cope with being co-parents without being involved with each other. its a painful thing and i can speak from experience.

1. she's locked to you. she could have a bad day and hate you. i wouldn't take it personal. key is not to take it personal.

2. of course she does. again, she has emotional problems and seems immature. that's expected. its really hard to accept someone else around your kid. does she have another guy around your child? maybe it just does not bug you but people do have issues with this, it is devastating. nothing you can do about her hating your girl. its not in your control to make her like her.

3. validate and discipline. you cannot yell at dad. also, watch for the child playing both sides, kids do that naturally anyway to get what they want so i would not take what he says so serious when he talks trash about mom. ideally its disrespectful and he should not do it.

4. its very hard to get the courts to over turn those kind of things. you can always ask for more time together.

5. be detached and dont take it personal.

6. its not uncommon for ex's to see things differently. again, you can't control what she thinks or sees.

7. i get what you are feeling here. my ex has pushed the boundaries here and as she gets older i can see it being a source of conflict. i mean after all she is TELLING you how to spend your time together which receives an F U response. I get it. My advice would be what is in your kids best interest. I mean will it be fun to watch your kid play soccer on saturday why you enjoy some fresh air looking at the moms? Is it going to make your kid happy. What does your Kid want to do?

8. i gave up on trying to have an intelligent conversation with my ex about parenting. i found the term parallel parenting much more realistic than "co-parenting". i've detached from what happens in my ex's household. I don't care. Should we need to discuss something I handle it as necessary but I don't dwell on it. I can't do anything about it anyway and if I over step the boundaries its asking for problem. I completely understand the emotionally complexities being a Dad that come with this. I've just let go. It does not mean I don't care or love my child it just means i'm not going to get a racing heart about it. Her accusations would be annoying but it should not bug you because its whatever. The fear there though I get it, its deeply angering when someone you have a child with attacks you verbally like that.

9.  i don't know what the role of a school counselor is. i mean if its to help improve your kids focus go for it. if its to help give your child coping skills for whatever is going on between mom and dad and the environment go for it. i don't know what they would help with. i'm not there yet.

i am in your boat with the fears. you gotta suck that up. i'm afraid too man it sucks. enjoy your time with your boy. its not easy together and its not easy apart and its not going to be perfect, its always going to be difficult. the grass is not greener on the other side.

[samnc]

as for the soccer comment, my son does that stuff, but is not into it that much... .  he is an average player.  She wants him on the traveling soccer team, which my son has no desire to do, so I am refusing it.

[ForeverDad]

1. My ex periodically curses me out with the worst words she can think of.  I recall a couple times she called me Satan the Devil and even Judas Iscariot (after I kissed her before leaving for work one morning pre-separation).  The pwBPD lives by the moods, feelings and emotions of the moment.  Both Ups and Downs.

2.  She's rejected you or you left, but she doesn't want to be replaced.  Also, she may feel that you would replace her as your child's mother.  You wouldn't do that, but she would do that to you and that's enough justification for her in her mind/perception to hate anyone you choose.

3.  You need to validate his observations.  Don't invalidate them by saying quick cover-ups like "it's her way to love you" or even "she's not feeling good".  Call bad behaviors what they are - bad behaviors - though you may have to word it carefully so he doesn't speak accusingly to her and suffer retribution.

4.  I wouldn't move next door or even down the street.  That's far too close, too easy for her to intrude upon your life and home.  Just moving within the school district should be good enough.  That way you have some distance apart but both can use the school's transportation system and you won't be considered the "remote" parent.  My ex lives over 20 miles from son's school, some days she must drive nearly 100 miles just to and from school.  It's hard to keep that up for years.

So what if it's an uphill struggle?  Virtually all of us, even the mothers, have uphill struggle against the issues caused by BPD or whatever causes the conflict.  Yes, do look for reasons and ways to seek more time.  Don't be timid.  If you ask for 50% and she responds seeking 99%, we don't want a judge to feel like splitting the difference is a convenient option.

What I've often written is that we seek more than we really expect to end up with.  (If we don't ask, we certainly won't get it.  If we ask, we at least have a possibility of getting it.)  That gives us a fallback position that still is better than what we may currently have.

5.  Rants and rages happen and will happen again despite your best efforts.  Accept that.  So how to deal with it?  Build firm boundaries.  Keep your distance as much as possible.  Hang up if a call goes bad.  Learn communications skills described here to reduce the conflict by at least a little.  Learn to emotionally detach. (Just one example, imagine having an invisible shield.)

6. My ex won't forget the things she wants to keep harping on, usualy things I did or didn't do as she wished.  She also forgets or blatantly ignores my good actions and her bad actions.  How convenient, huh?  Sadly, you can't Reason with Unreason.  You can't make her reason or be reasonable.

7.  Entitlement.  Mother Of The Year - MOTY.  Problem is, there will sometimes be things that she's right about, but it doesn't mean all the rest is right too.  However, that is what she'll claim.

Son is where, in first or second grade?  It's ridiculous to know what will happen a decade from now.  Yes, set up an education account for your son if you haven't already, do your best to ensure things do work out well for his advanced education - and without her seizing control of your contributions.  But a specific college at this point is a bit premature.  Nice goal, but don't get cornered or obligated.  The extra activities are nice but not a necessity.

8.  My son had a hard time in school.  All the teachers grades K through 3 said he needed assessment.  ADHD was postulated, he couldn't concentrate and always finished last even though every teacher said he was bright.  I attributed it to the years of conflict with his mother.  He improved just about the time he turned 9 years old.  Just isn't where he ought to be but much better.  There are continuing consequences to the past conflict... .  

9.  Yes, keep the counselors involved and informed.  However, it's hard to avoid all conflict, you can count on her to sabotage even your best efforts and strategies.  Just do the best damage control you can manage for the times it does get out of hand.

[samnc]

wow, thanks for these comments.  It sounds like my ex wife is like yours!  Any other comments from you would be most appreciated.

[Matt]

1.   She has called me stupid, moronic, and things even worse.   However, at the same time, she seems to want me over some and to hang out with her.  I do spend some time with her when my son is with her, as I like the extra time with my son and she can be pleasant when she is in a good mood, but I am worn out dealing with mood swings.  Does she really think I am this terrible person you think?  If so, why want to spend some time with me? Yesterday she told me her biggest regret was not moving with our child when he was younger so I wouldn’t be there to “screw him up”.

You shouldn't be spending time with her, even with your son present, with just a few exceptions.  For example, if there is a school event that involves your son, you can both attend that.  If he's part of the event you don't have to sit together.  If he is watching, you might sit on each side of him, but minimize your interaction with her.  Do not be in her home, and do not have her in your home.  There are a million reasons why, starting with your emotional well-being, but also what you are talking about here - her behavior.  You need to set that boundary - "I do not associate with people who treat me badly." - and maintain it.  (But you don't have to explain why to your ex.)  You can say to your son, "Mom and I are divorced now.  We each have our own lives."  Or even, "You've heard Mom say mean things to me.  I won't be around people who treat me badly."

2.   She hates my girlfriend, with though my GF is a perfectly fine person and they never met.  What gives?

How do you know she hates your girlfriend?

If he answer is, she told you, or you saw it on her Facebook page, then quit talking to her and un-friend her on Facebook.

If the answer is, mutual friends told you, then don't talk about her with those friends.

If the answer is, your son told you, then quit focusing on your ex and focus on your son.  "It's not right to say bad things about people you don't even know."  Help him see right from wrong.  Don't try to fix your ex.

3.   My kid (who thank god is OK) seems to be picking up on that things that mom is mean, yells at me, not nice etc… What should or shouldn’t be said to him?

"It's not right to be mean to other people.  I won't be around someone who is mean to me."

If he lists specific accusations - "Mom said you kicked a dog." - you can answer those very clearly - "I have never kicked a dog.  It's not right to say things that aren't true."

4.   I am thinking about filing for primary custody, but it sounds like that is an uphill battle, or moving right by her so I can get 50/50 custody.  [an aside here is that I wish I pushed more aggressively for custody, but the deck seemed to have been stacked against me at the time, and I got the best settlement I think I could have with the hand I was dealt] If I do something like this, what should I expect from her?  If you had a custody litigation fight, how did you prep for it?  I have about 40 pages of documentation in a notebook (all typed) but initially she got a favorable custody decision due to the fact that the judge was pro-mom, the child was young, and other things.  I have plenty of witnesses who can say I am a great father, all of her neighbors and parents of kids where my son is when he is w/ her know me and have good things to say about me, and I am active in the school/teacher etc…

I think you should post this on the "Family Law" board here, to get good, focused ideas and discussion.

You decision on this should not be based on your ex's reactions, which you can't predict or control.  Your decision should be based on the custody arrangement you believe is best for your son.  Kids raised by someone who has BPD are at much higher risk - many problems by the time they are adults - substance abuse, emotional problems, etc. - so if your ex's behavior is BPDish, your son is probably better off spending very little time with her.

5.   How do you deal with BPD rage and anger?  I find it hard not to get angry and upset when she lashes out at me, which often seems to be over nothing... it is possible that I am amiss and I am totally misdjudigng things and she is lashing out at me when I truly did something wrong, but I really have trouble seeing not only things I drop the ball on which I get yelled at for, but also some things she has a gripe with seem very trivial, at least to me, and hopefully by an objective person.

She can't yell at you if you aren't around her.  You should only interact with her by e-mail, and only about practical matters related to your son.  It takes time to get good at it, but I'm down to a few e-mails a month, mostly just a few words long, almost all about the schedule.  "I will be traveling next Tuesday and Wednesday.  I'll drop the kids off at 5:30 Monday and pick them up at 5:30 Thursday."

If she calls you, let it go to voice-mail, and listen to the voice-mail, and decide if a response is appropriate.  Don't respond to emotions, accusations, threats, etc.  But keep all those - find a way to get the voice-mails saved as .mp3 files - so they can be evidence in the custody case.

6.   She also seems to have a totally different recollection on events and things.  Is this common?  She concludes things which (to me) make absolutely no sense from what our custody agreement says (she tried to tell me if I have him for an extended period of time in October it counts towards the summer) to mis-calculating the number of times I went to my kid’s soccer practice (only missed about 2 sessions) and the number of times she went to his practices and games (about 2-3 times)

Quit talking to her about any of this stuff.  Go by the court order.  If she violates it, call your lawyer or the police.

7.   She is convinced that our son needs to go to Harvard and if he is not in all these extracurricular activities, regardless of whether my son wants to do it or not, his life will be bad.  I do not allow her to sign my son up for any activities during my time with him (which is each weekend and various weeks during the year) so she can’t really sign him up for things w/o my consent, but she is pushing this hard.  Is this a BPD issue or what?  If I tell her to back off, I am made out to be the bad parent, not caring, and that basically I want my son to have the same bad life and bad job I have.  (note that I have a terminal degree and have a stable job and have kept my job for 6 years)

Have these conversations by e-mail.  Address her valid issues - if she says, "I think it will help his chances at getting into a good college.", you might not agree, but it's a reasonable topic.  But don't repeat yourself - say what you believe once, and then drop it - don't engage in an argument.  "I understand you think this activity is a good idea, but Son does not want to do it, and I will not force him to do an extracurricular activity he is not interested in."  If she continues to argue, unless you see merit in her points, just don't respond.  No means no.

By the way, one of my kids went to an Ivy League school, and it was a very good thing.  Very expensive, but she got a full-ride scholarship, and worked part-time, and managed it.  "Regular" people can get into super-good schools, and I think it's good for your son to be encouraged to do his best.  The way I handled this was, "The better you do now, the more choices you'll have later."  That's always true, all through school - if you do well in middle school, you'll qualify for advanced classes in high school, etc.  So it's not "Ivy League or you're a failure!".  It's ":)oing your best now gives you more choices later."

8.   My son had trouble with a 1st grade reading comp test.  I talked to the teacher about it and she is convinced that my son is fine (due to his general performance at school) and chalked it up to him not paying attention and nothing else.  So, I am satisfied that he is fine.  I tried to have an intelligible conversation with my ex-wife about this, and it was turned around on me that I do not do anything smart with my son (which is not true), I do not read with my son (which is not true) and basically I am incapable of assisting my son in school and the entire thing is my fault.  I don’t know how to co-parent with her, and don’t even know if I should.  I would have been happy to have a conversation with the ex-wife about the need to instill in my son to take these tests seriously and to think when you read, but I was unable to.

You hit on the key word:  "Co-parent".

We often talk here about "co-parenting" vs. "parallel parenting".  It's probably not possible to co-parent with someone who has BPD.  I don't even think in terms of parallel parenting, but there is a lot of good information about it on this site.  I just think in terms of "parenting".  I parent my kids.  I do my best to figure out their needs and meet them.  It has nothing to do with my ex, and I rarely discuss it with her.

There are exceptions - big issues which come up and which I decide we should be in synch on.  So I reach out - by e-mail - and give her the information, and tell her how I'm handling it.  I don't ask her opinion, but if she gives it, I do her the courtesy of taking her ideas into account.  I don't try to convince her of anything or get her permission or agreement.  I just tell her the information and how I'm handling it, and stop.

":)16 is upset because she got an F on her chemistry quiz.  I talked to the teacher and found out that she has all As on her homework, but that's because the teacher doesn't check the homework - she gives As to everybody if they tried.  So D16 didn't understand some stuff and got it wrong on the quiz too.  I told D16 to have the teacher check her homework from now on, and I told the teacher that too, so if she gets it wrong on the homework she can learn from that.  The F won't count too much on her grade for the semester."

Information and what I'm doing - nothing more.  (My ex didn't respond at all to that e-mail, by the way, which is typical - now that she knows I'm not going to engage in any drama, she's bored with me.)

9.   Should I get the school counselor involved?  There was a major blow up we had last year my kid witnessed, and I discussed w/ school and they talked to my son about it as well, and I am determined for that not to happen again.

You should definitely be in touch with the school counselor, all his teachers, his doctor and his dentist.  First, because you will be asked their names during your court case, to prove that fathers don't care about their kids enough to know the names of their teachers.  But more important, you should be focused on your son, not your ex, and the counselor, teachers, etc. all have good inputs about him - how he's doing and how you can help.

In those conversations, minimize any mentions of his mom.  Maybe it makes sense to mention her to the counselor, briefly, but don't make this a "Sam vs. Ex" thing.  I told my kids' counselor, "We're going through a divorce, and custody hasn't been decided.  My wife has been diagnosed with a personality disorder, and she has a tendency to make accusations, so please take anything along those lines with a grain of salt.  The kids are under a lot of stress, and I'm wondering if you could keep an eye on them and let me know if there's anything we should discuss."  She knew them much better than I expected, and was glad to be consulted.  She also recommended a good private counselor for the kids, and I took them to see her, safe in the knowledge that if I was challenged on that I could say the private counselor was recommended by the school counselor - I couldn't be accused of shopping for someone who would favor me.

Basically, any help here would be appreciated.  I am at a wits and finally want to get off the  hamster wheel with her, but need some other help how.  I have been seeing a counselor as well, and he has talked to me extensively about power and using my power I have with her.

Not to repeat myself, but the main thing is to disengage from your ex and focus on your son.  That will address everything you're talking about here;  that is, it won't fix your ex - you can't fix her -  but it will make you less crazy and a better parent.

Also, a question about the future here... .  I am afraid my kid will see me as the secondary parent, even though I have no evidence he does now, andhe seems comfortable discussing anythign with me.  If the child is with her 2/3 of the time, how ill my relationship be with my child when he is older if I do not get a 50/50 custody or primary custody?  As far as custody goes, even though she is nuts, she doesnt SEEM nuts, if that makes any sense, and she can project herself in a very sympathetic way.  I dont want my son to ever think I am the second parent, and I dont think he does,t but I am curious if older kids fully get that their BPD parent is like, and what to expect in the future with my son.

You're asking lots of big questions with complicated answers.  I have stepkids 34 and 23 - my ex's kids - as well as D16 and S14 with my BPD ex.  Each kid is an individual.  They all consider me their parent - SS34 calls me ":)ad" because his biodad is long gone, SD23 calls me "Matt" because her biodad is still around, but when she says "my parents" she means her mom and me.  And my younger kids treat me as their dad - not secondary to anyone.

It is important to get the most time you can.  I would encourage you to pursue the legal case and discuss it on the Family Law board.

But even if you stay at 1/3, there is no need to be "secondary".  1/3 is plenty of time to do your job.  Help him with everything he needs help with - every aspect of his life - physical, academic, emotional, etc.  Don't consider anything "Mom's job" (though if she is handling something and your help isn't needed, you should accept that gracefully).  Focus on understanding his needs and finding ways to meet them, and on enjoying your time with him.  Have fun with him - do stuff - joke - play games - help with homework - feed him - talk about interesting things - be thoroughly engaged with him all the time.  Then there is no risk of being "secondary" to anyone.

My ex has the kids regularly, but my perception is that she does very little with them - doesn't participate much in their schoolwork - doesn't actually talk with them in depth.  Anything important, they bring to me - they ask me for permission for stuff because they know if I agree I'll make it happen and if I don't agree there's a good reason.  And it has very little to do with the formal court ruling about time.  (Legally we have 50/50, in practice they're with me most of the time.)

[samnc]

thanks... .  there is alot for me to chew over, both with this post and some interesting previous posts I saw.

One more thing about the hamster wheel issue, and I have to admit this is my fault.  My ex has done a good job at a carrot/stick approach with me.  If I am "good" (whatever she thinks "good" is, she is more willing to work with me, such as to give me extra time with my son, switch a day here and there, etc... .  If I am "bad" she does not do this.  Of course, I always cave in to her requests to change time etc... (more on this later on)

My therapist basically told me that I have to throw out the carrots, and if I am to disengage, accept that she might not give me any extra time and accept it.  In other words, I technically need to give the child back to her on Monday for MLK day at 9 AM.  If she is in a good mood, she will tell me to keep him the entire day, if not, she will want to stick to the 9 AM time, but I have to accept that it is more unhealthy for me to get on the hamster wheel and have that time with my son than to get off the wheel, while having that extra time.  But, practically speaking, how are you OK with losing the carrot?

As far as relitigating custody goes, this is not the proper forum... .  I want to get stronger mentally so if there is a fight, I won't be basketcase.  I feel much better about it now, and I am trying to get my ducks lined up right now, so if something is done, I will be better off mentally, and even if I dont file for anything, I will still mentally feel better.

I also know this sounds petty and trivial, but my ex-wife basically "won" by default... .  there was a judge who favored moms and a whole host of other things, out  of my control, gave me what I think is an unfavorable response.  I am unhappy with how child supprot is set up, and I am unhappy with how the entire thing went down, even though I know I am at least as capable of a parent than she is, and I think it is in my child's best inerest to be with me 50/50 or even primary... .  but how do you get by the resentment and anger?  I do not want this to control my life, but I am unhappy with the outcome when we split... child was one year old, and before we split I talked to several attorneys who basically told me that I am scrwewed dur to circumstances beyond my control.  I have very little faith in the court system.

Thanks... my new years resolution is not to be driven crazy by my ex-wife and to do whatever I need to do to be there for my son.  I think I can get there, and think I am mentally better than I was before.

[Matt]

There may be a path to success for more custody.  Explore it in its own thread on the Family Law board.

[samnc]

fair enough... lets try to get the stuff squared away on my end (and of course I am the one responsible for that) and then I can get into custody issues.

Long term, the impression I am getting is that:

a. my ex-wife sounds like what you are going through

b. the best way is to detatch from her and not to get back on the hamster wheel

I am also gettnig alternative ways of communicating to my kid when he is w/ her so if she refuses to answer the phone to let me talk to my son, there are other ways to talk to my son.

My biggest weakness now is the carrot/stick approach she takes.  The pull of being with my son more is pretty strong... .  I am assuming not getting extra time by not getting on the hamster wheel is a necessary evil.  Note that when SHE wants to adjust a schedule, I generally allow it.

[Matt]

When we separated, my kids were 8 and 10.  I got them both cell phones so we can talk any time.  That worked very well.

[ForeverDad]

Do you have a clear detailed parenting schedule?  If things are left to vague clauses such as "mutually agreed" or "reasonable" then of course your ex will grab onto such phrases and her entitlement/blaming will cause her to dictate what should be a mutual consensus or negotiation.  You can't convince her or reason with her.  You do need court to see the whole picture and realize that a clearly itemized order is required in your case.  No order is perfect, even the best ones have holes and weaknesses, the goal is to fix the worst issues and let only the minor ones be unresolved.

Figure out what needs fixing, tightening or adjusting and then once you've got yourself to where you're not so emotionally crushed/manipulated/emasculated by her, you can head back to court to improve it.  To do that, you need to see how things work, what/how to document, ways to prepare your case and how to strategize for improvement if not also success.  The Family Law and Divorcing board is the place for that.

[samnc]

The general weekends are defined, but the summer and spring is not, and I agree they should be to avoid arguments.

The agreement needs to be changed anyway since it was decided when he was in day care... .  he is in school now so some things in the agreement make little sense now.  But, she will go insane if I change it.  Yes, I was afraid of her (and perhaps still am) and have fear of the blow up... but I am trying very hard now to get past the fear.  I fully expect World War III if I petition a court to modify the schedule, even if it does not give her any less time or less child support.  But, if I file for anything, and if she will go insane, I might as well file for more time as well... these are legal issues I am not really interested in right now.  I am more interested how (not) to react when she rages if she gets notice of a court hearing.  It won't be pretty.  Kind of embaressing I have fear about this, huh?

But, this is my goal... .  I am seeing a counselor about this and am supplementing him with you all, and when I am mentally better, I am talking to an attorney, but I need the dealing with the BPD stuff resolved 1st

[Matt]

The court process takes time - where I live, about 8 months.  So you can't wait too long to file, if you want the issues resolved before summer break.

The bottom line is, you can't control the other party's reaction to what you do.  You can only do what you think is right and get as much distance as possible so that her reactions don't affect you.

Establish boundaries:

* Don't be in her home.

* Don't have her in your home.

* Don't be where she is unless it's a public place, like a school event.

* Don't talk with her on the phone unless it's an emergency.

* Communicate by e-mail - very short - information not emotions.

* Don't respond to threats, accusations, rages, etc.

Maintain your boundaries consistently.  If she rages, you won't know it and it won't affect you.

Find the right lawyer - talk to as many as you can and pick the one who has experience with BPD and can give you a good plan to achieve your objectives.

Then file the motion that you believe is right, and follow through without delays.  Instruct your attorney not to agree to any delays.  There might still be time to get it resolved before the school year is over.

[samnc]

despite the conversation we had regarding the reading assessment and how bad of a parent I am, she wanted to go to the zoo with me and the child today (!)

Obviously, I am not the zoo.

[Free One]

Establish boundaries:

* Don't be in her home.

* Don't have her in your home.

* Don't be where she is unless it's a public place, like a school event.

* Don't talk with her on the phone unless it's an emergency.

* Communicate by e-mail - very short - information not emotions.

* Don't respond to threats, accusations, rages, etc.

Matt's list is great and these things have worked well for me, over time.

[ennie]

I love that you just ask all the big questions!  These are all questions, IMO, that we are all wrestling with if we are sharing parenting with a BPD person.  I am a stem mom, and also have worked iwth my DH on dealing with all of these questions.  Roam around the boards, and you will find many diverse answers to very similar problems.  

Here are some of mine.  We are in a relatively stable time, after a long custody battle and lots of various periods.  I have been with DH 5.5 years, and he has been separated from his ex for 6.5 years.  This has been the first relatively stable period.  The kids are doing well, ages 12 and 8.  

I realize I have a tendency to sound like an authority.  While I have read a lot of this board and many books and articles on this topic, as well as talking to many authorities, I am not an authority and do not know beans.  But I offer these answers as ways of thinking about your ex and situation that can help you to provide a more peaceful home for your child, by providing a perspective in which both your ex and you are okay as is, and in which you give your child full permission to love both parents as is, regardless of your custody situation.  



1.   She has called me stupid, moronic, and things even worse... .    Does she really think I am this terrible person you think?  If so, why want to spend some time with me?

As discussed by others and elsewhere on these boards, a BPD person (if indeed she is BPD) tends to see things in BLACK and WHITE terms.  The way I have made sense of this is to look at how I assess a problem when I am really afraid or upset.  In the moment, I want to identify what is causing the harm to me and get away from it.  Later, there is time to address more constructive ways of addressing the situation.  In our case, BPD mom was severely abused as a kid, and I see her as getting stuck in that emergency decision making place, where we are wired to identify threats.  She had to figure out how to survive severe abuse, and people who meant her real harm. Unfortunately, she fails to notice that people like DH and I mean to be of assistance, not harm.  

This is not personal.  It is a malfunction in her coping strategy.  I do not remember who introduced the idea of "trauma dialogues," but the idea is that stories we create when traumatized tend to be more robust to change, meaning that if seeing others as a threat saved your life, you will tend to use that strategy more than is appropriate in the contemporary situation.  

My husband's ex says terrible things about him and me.  She also says nice things.  We are black or white.  That is about her, not about us.  It is like when my SD8 was 4, she would call people a "meany" or a "nicey," depending entirely on whether they gave her candy or not when she wanted it.  Was this a realistic evaluation of the other person's level of niceness?  No.  It was 1) a reaction to getting or not getting; and 2) intended to manipulate someone to be a "nicey."  

The problem with this is twofold.  First, it is very hard on kids to see conflict between parents, and because a child develops self esteem in response to her parents, it is also hard on a child's sense of self to hear bad things about their parents. Second, it is almost impossible not to get sucked in to the black and white perspective, to take it seriously.  We used to risk spending more time with BPD mom and the kids because they clearly loved to see all the parents interacting peacefully.  However, over time, BPD mom would regularly use these instances as opportunities for conflict.  And that conflict, even just a few instances, really changed the kids relationship to their dad.  In general, if one parent is flipping out, the child will often cling to that parent, especially if it is mom.  I recently got a dog, and I notice this even with the dog.  When I am upset with my husband, the dog sits on my lap, even if it is my fault that I am upset and DH is being entirely nice and kind.  I do not know where this comes from, but it seems like a basic "instinct." So allowing the kids to witness conflict between mom and dad, though mom was raging and dad was being loving, actually resulted in more enmeshment with mom and in supporting mom's efforts to alienate the kids from their dad.  

Continuing to engage in the drama of being hated one minute and loved the next is not a healthy way to teach your child to relate, and that is what you are doing when modeling this behavior for him by engaging with your ex in front of him this way.  In addition, it probably does not allow you the distance needed to create an independent emotional life and family, which then allows you to model an entirely different approach for your child.  

When DH first left his BPD ex, he talked to her on the phone often, spent some time with her and the kids together, had poor boundaries.  :)uring that time, the kids had a really hard time separating from her when it was time to go with him, and strongly preferred her.  As he developed better boundaries and stopped being in a relationship with her, he was able to focus more on his relationship with the kids, and their relationship strengthened.  The kids were happy to go with him, and transitions became less stressful.  Unfortunately, these boundaries were met with rage by his BPD ex, particularly at first.  But over time, things leveled out.  

In sum, BPD folks see the world as either for them or against them.  This way of perceiving the world is narrowing and leads to unpleasant and unfulfilling relationships, mainly because this is not an accurate model of how people are.  By continuing to empower and engage in that way of relating to the mother of your child, you model for your child a way of relating that feels bad to you, and that will probably feel bad to your child if he uses that way of doing business.  In my opinion, it is better to create the distance needed to make your own relationships and model for your child a more loving and less judging way of relating to intimate people in your life.  

I think the difficulty is that it would be great to have it both ways---to be able to feel and model loving, non-judgmental, functional ways of relating to others, and to also be able to let the child see his parents relating to each other.  Heck, it would be great for the child to see Dad setting boundaries with mom without hating her.  But it is not really possible, in my experience, to do all this, and the down side of kids witnessing conflict, violence, or verbal abuse of one parent is just much greater than you realize at first.  So this is why it is necessary to set boundaries, because how your child sees himself, how safe the world feels to him, depends on you being able to do this (at least in my opinion).  

2.   She hates my girlfriend, with though my GF is a perfectly fine person and they never met.  What gives?

BPD folks seem to fear abandonment more than anything.  No matter how much they want to break up or are then ones to initiate the breakup, you moving on is probably perceived as abandonment, and she hates the woman who seems to make this permanent.  Another take on this is that BPD folk have very limited range of tools to deal with strong feelings.  Most people feel some degree of jealousy about the new partner of an ex, especially if the ex is happy.  Most of us (especially if the breakup is far in the past or of we were the ones to break up) tell ourselves it is not reasonable to feel that way, or that even if the feelings are "normal," they should not be held against the ex.  Also, most of us have the ability to hold complex feelings--to feel some jealousy and also to care for the ex, and to be glad they have someone they love, and to enjoy being included in the life of the ex by meeting or knowing about the new mate.  But a BPD person is in this black and white world.  I notice that most all strong feelings--joy, anger, envy, fear, embarrassment--are met by my DH's ex with the same intense approach--rage, blame, anger, feeling victimized.  Again, it is not about your GF or you, it is just how she knows how to deal with what are probably normal feelings.  

[ennie]

More... .  


3.   My kid (who thank god is OK) seems to be picking up on that things that mom is mean, yells at me, not nice etc… What should or shouldn’t be said to him?

This is such a complex topic.  Read the book ":)ivorce Poison" for some great advice at handling this sort of thing.  The take home message is that while the truism that you should never say bad things about the other parent is generally true, when a parent is attempting to alienate a child from the other parent, addressing what is being said is important, and how you do it is important.  Badmouthing the other parent is hard on kids because they identify with parents, so it is not only hurtful to someone they love, but to themselves.  At the same time, communicating about difficult things involves saying things that are uncomfortable to children.  The way I see it is that there are two axis---one is self esteem, one is "reality testing." Maybe there is a third--"relationship strength", with the alienated parent.  Talking about the other parent has a negative impact in the moment on self esteem and your relationship strength.  But it has a positive impact on the child's ability to perceive reality.  In the long run, relationships rely heavily on the ability to perceive a common reality.  As a step-parent, talking about the kids mom makes them want to not like me.  But I am also the least threatening person to address some of the serious distortions that take place, and I have seen the kids' relief when some totally bizarre distortion is unearthed by me or their dad.  But too much addressing this stuff is terribly uncomfortable for the child, and can harm your relationship with them and their self-esteem.  This is a balance that seems highly variable depending on the child and strength of your relationship with the child.  Read Divorce Poison, but I think the best advice I have is to trust your heart and your love for your child and do not be afraid of not being liked.  Never badmouth anyone important to your child, especially not mom, but do not be afraid to go to those scary places of truth that might be uncomfortable, because your courage will help your child figure out what is real.  One therapist I had gave me a lot of literature on the impact of high conflict families on kids, and one of the most striking impacts is the very poor reality testing kids have in these families, especially in conflict situations.  This means that in a conflict, they cannot perceive what actually happened, which means they cannot resolve conflict or deal with problems with other people.  That is disabling.  But knowing that you really love him and really understand he loves his mom is even more important.



4.   I am thinking about filing for primary custody, but it sounds like that is an uphill battle, or moving right by her so I can get 50/50 custody.

I agree with others--moving into the school district, but far enough to have clear boundaries, seems like a good plan.  Another resource is an excellent article on positive factors that can help predict success in children of mentally ill parents.  Here is the url:

www.mentalhealthamerica.net/go/information/get-info/strengthening-families/when-a-parent-has-a-mental-illness-from-risk-to-resiliency-protective-factors-for-children

There are other similar articles with slightly different factors--but suffice it to say that being near family, other close adults, doing well in school, having friends, are all important factors to your child's ability to deal with the challenges of having a mentally ill mom if that is indeed the case.  

Where you would move, does your child have family beyond his mom?  Are there good friends of yours there?  :)o you have a support network?  :)oes he have important friends there?  These factors should be evaluated in deciding whether to move. If all the family and friends are where you live, and mom lives somewhere with no support network for you, it might be better to consider a different approach.

5.   How do you deal with BPD rage and anger?  

Both DH and I spent years trying to "deal" with the rage and anger... .  he went to many counseling sessions with her, we did counseling independently, and the custody evaluator recommended ordering co-parenting counseling for the three of us, which we did.  The bottom line from my opinion is that it is really not useful to figure out a strategy for coping with that much rage being directed at you.  The only effective strategy DH or I have found is to limit contact with the rage.  The problem we encountered is what you describe--you get the nice stuff if you are "good," but once you begin to set boundaries, the rage increases.  So the more "healthy" your situation and home are, the more she is raging.  

I think what works for us is to limit contact with BPD ex to written contact, which means it is not as emotionally hard on you, and also that the kids do not hear it.  The only exceptions are that we see her at kids events and are polite, friendly if she is polite back; and that DH attends mediation with a third party present when needed, as infrequently as possible.  :)H does not pick up the phone, call her, or initiate conversation with her, period, and does not let himself be in situations where he is alone with her.  

The thing I want to emphasize is that for my DH, even listening to her rage politely had huge, negative impacts on his self-esteem, and importantly, on his trust in himself as a father.  This in turn resulted in allowing the kids to have too much power and be more like peers, and also in conflict with the kids, and drama in our home.  So then the kids were not only dealing with mom yelling at dad, but having more conflict at dad's house.  We all have anger and need to learn how to express it and hear it, but BPD rage is not an emotion, it is a way of gaining power.  There is no resolution to it, and in my experience, it is endless.  BPD ex will yell at me for 6 hours on the phone if I let her.  It does not peter out or get resolved.  All this rage does is to make you feel bad, which makes you a worse parent.  So, how I deal with the rage is walk away.  If I am responsible for the kids, and cannot leave, I make as much distance as possible, and let her know I care about her.  But in general, written communication is the way to avoid getting sucked in to the bottomless pit.  



6.   She also seems to have a totally different recollection on events and things.  Is this common?

Yes.  These are called cognitive distortions.  This is one of the most fascinating aspects of BPD to me, and in my opinion, one of the most damaging for the kids (other than witnessing violence and abuse, or being abused).  It is very common, and important to remember in negotiating.  Never trust that she will remember anything.  This is why we have found it so important to have a very detailed and clear parenting plan, why DH was willing to go to court to get one.  For example, the parenting plan states clearly that BPD ex has the kids for spring and fall break in even years, and DHhas the kids for spring and fall break in odd years.  Though she had the kids last spring and fall break, she is convinced that she has not had them for a break in 3 years.  Go figure.  Before this plan, DH would have to go along with her "facts" to get her to agree to him having time with the kids.  Now, he just writes a friendly email letting her know what the plan says.  

[ennie]

Still more... .  

7.   She is convinced that our son needs to go to Harvard and if he is not in all these extracurricular activities, regardless of whether my son wants to do it or not, his life will be bad.  [/b]

I think it is common for BPD people to be enmeshed with their kids, and for their kids to also be enmeshed.  There is interesting information about this issue in the attachment literature, which describes how different kinds of trauma and parenting can result in different kinds of attachments (or bonds) between parents and kids, and then what kinds of bonds kids are likely to have with their kids when they grow up. 

Being enmeshed means that you experience someone else's feelings and experience as your own, that you are not able to see the other as a distinct person.  Most parents experience this to some minor degree with their kids, but are hopefully able to pass on their values, while allowing their child to have feelings and interests separate from the parents, increasingly so until the child is an adult.  But it sounds like mom is enmeshed with your son and wants to "live vicariously" through his success. 

Our experience is that mom wanted the kids to do lots of activities, so long as she was the ONLY parent involved, or could plan events during dad's time.  When DH planned events, she rejected them.  We also have the opposite phenomenon, in which mom often discourages the kids from doing things she perceives as hard.  So she would sign kids up for music lessons, but not make them practice, and discourage them from going to recitals as they might not perform well.  She cared little for what might be good for them in terms of challenges.  SD12 has learning disabilities, and often tries to get teachers to test her below her level, so that she will always get 100%, but then SD12 gets bored and performs less well.  But this all seems to come from enmeshment, too--wanting the kids to be need gratifying objects, wanting them to perform in ways that make her feel good, rather than encouraging the kids toward a balance of challenge and success that is most helpful for their development. 



8.   My son had trouble with a 1st grade reading comp test.  I talked to the teacher about it and she is convinced that my son is fine (due to his general performance at school) and chalked it up to him not paying attention and nothing else.

In our case, SD12 does have learning disabilities, though she has a high IQ. There is some evidence that children of BPD mothers, particularly if attachment issues are present, may have impaired cognitive development in some measurable level over that of kids with "normal" parents.  See the article, "How a mother with Borderline Personality Affects Her Children,"  https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a108.htm, for more info on that topic. 

My sense is that SD12's learning disabilities mostly relate to her not being able to function academically when she is emotionally stressed, and instead focusing intensely on relationships with others.  Because she has been regularly subject to intense stress, she has missed out on a great deal of learning.  But she also has diagnosable disabilities--they just disappear when she is calm. 

When she was young, we were told she just had a hard time "paying attention."  She was tested and diagnosed in 2nd or third grade. 

BPD mom's relationship to this information has waivered between total fixation and total denial.  She is either convinced there is something wrong with SD12 and that SD12 needs special attention all the time to compensate, or convinced that the school has got it all wrong.  She has an entirely incoherent approach to addressing the issue.  So it is very important for DH to be active in the school's decisions about how to deal with these issues, as he is consistent and wants to challenge SD12 without making it impossible for her to succeed. 



9.   Should I get the school counselor involved? 

Yes.  I also wonder if you could talk to your ex about getting a counselor for your son outside of school?  Our girls did so much better with all of this once they started seeing a counselor, and she has been very helpful with some of the distortions and accusations as well, helping the kids to feel heard in a non-polarizing way.  Plus, if you may end up in court, having third parties witness what is happening is important.



I have been seeing a counselor as well, and he has talked to me extensively about power and using my power I have with her.

I think it is great that you are seeing a counselor, and I have found it very helpful to see someone who has experience dealing with BPD and domestic violence against men, if you have been subjected to violence.  When people understand these issues, I do not need to explain so much. 

For example, the issue of using your power is really different in my opinion with someone with BPD, because of the cognitive distortions and black and white thinking.  There is a great workshop here about boundaries that I have found very useful, which emphasizes that boundaries are a product of what you value--not so much a set of rules or requests, but clarity about what you value and how you plan to act to move toward what you value when the BPD person or others places what you value at risk.  Here is the URL for that article:

https://bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

My experience is that the BPD ex of my DH is extremely reactive to any kind of leadership in others, unless it is done with total subservient language.  At the same time, she is so changeable and incoherent about what she wants, that DH pretty much has to take charge or there will never be a decision.  We have learned some negotiation tricks to deal with this. 

But this relates to power in that I think it is important to be clear about what you want.  This is where the discussion of values comes into play, and the reality that you can make decisions about your behavior, but not hers.  I have found negotiating using reason or straightforward requests to be very ineffective at getting BPD ex to engage in making a plan or giving DH what he wants, even if DH is helping her get what she wants.  But making a clear plan and suggesting it over and over with boundaries seems to work, albeit with a lot of raging on her part.  What works for us:  do not engage in any unnecessary negotiation; be prepared to the hilt; written communication only, if possible.  Do not back down.  DH used to cave in easily, thinking she would be happy and stop raging... .  but over time, I noticed that the more he gave in, the more the rage increased.  She was not wanting what she wanted, she was wanting the fight. 

In sum, if using your power means disengaging and doing what feels right to you independent of her, then that seems right on.  But I think a T not familiar with BPD might assume more negotiation is possible that really is. 

Also, a question about the future here... .  I am afraid my kid will see me as the secondary parent,

This is a totally reasonable fear.  Read Divorce Poison.  In our case, the kids mom is completely identified as a mom and it is totally central to her self esteem to be the ONLY important person in the kids' lives.  When they were little, this was more natural (though if dad is around equally, kids seem to be connected to both parents in normal situations).  But as the kids got older, and gravitated more to dad, mom resorted to very extreme behavior and threats to secure her role as the only important one.  Examples include when SD12 was 7 or 8 and started saying she loved her dad equally to mom, and especially when she started saying she loved me like a second mom or auntie, her mom threatened to abandon her daughter or kill herself.  SD12 stopped feeling that way out loud. 

Based on various parental alienation literature, and my own experience, the antidote to alienation is love and your equal or greater participation in your son's life.  Especially when kids are little, I have noticed that kids feel closer to who spend most time with them, period.  I noticed this when I was a baby sitter, and the parents were gone all day... .  the kid bonded to me, and was sad when they had to go back to mom.  But at the same time, as they get older and venture out into the world more, the parent who is around less becomes more special and alluring.  The bottom line is that if you spend a lot of time with your child (even 1/3), your child will base his feelings about you more on you than on what mom says, but the more that he is with mom, the more he will be learning about you through her eyes.  With my SDs, DH has always had 50/50 custody--and when SD12 is with mom, she thinks mom is the most important parent because mom needs her to think that, but when she is with us, mom AND dad are most important.  For SD8, the three of us are equally important. 

I think if you remain dedicated to spending as much time as possible with your son, he will continue to love you with all his heart. 

I have also learned not to listen to what the kids say about who is most important (they will say the person is most important who they think needs it the most in the momemt); and instead to listen to my heart, to observe what they do.  I am just the step mom, and they would say any day of the week that I am not important in order to protect mom, but while saying that, they are climbing in my lap and kissing me and telling me also everything that happened in school that day and asking if they can have special time just with me.  With their dad, when mom is violent or upset, they say mom is more important, meanwhile climbing into dad's lap and asking to wrestle with him, and waiting until they get to dad's house to grow and change and take risks.  Also, they tell us the truth about how they feel, when it is not about parents or custody but all about them.  They say when they are angry, or hurt, or happy.  DH sometimes listens more to the drama and story that the kids repeat from their mom, so sometimes he feels the kids love him less than mom; but what we say to the kids is that there is no more or less in love, if your heart is wide open it is just open. 

  If the child is with her 2/3 of the time, how ill my relationship be with my child when he is older if I do not get a 50/50 custody or primary custody?

I think the primary issue here should be what does your son need.  How is the current arrangement working for him?  There is also a lot of literature about the importance of dads in kids lives, linking self esteem to the equal presence of dad in a kids' life, and lack of self esteem to absent fathers.  If you are more emotionally stable than mom, than this is more so.  As kids get older, they tend to push away from their more trusted parent, so it is important not to confuse that feeling of closeness and enmeshment with a strong parent/child bond. 

In our case, BPD mom is alcoholic and abusive to men in her life, and extremely manipulative of the kids. I would have loved it if DH had worked harder to get more custody of the kids, because they really have been through the wringer.  At the same time, DH and I both work, and it would have been hard on us to be full time parents.  I wish he would have been able to have the confidence to work for full custody, but the bias toward moms and the lack of funds meant that he would have had to be aggressive about this, and he is not an aggressive guy.  So he asked for 50/50, and a custody evaluator to tell him if he should have more than that.  The evaluator gave him precisely what he asked for... .  50/50, court ordered therapy, no more than 2 weeks with mom at a time. 

For us,DH felt a need to go to court because BPDmom kept saying she wanted full custody, and kept telling the kids she was going to move away with them and leave dad, so he would not "mess them up," much as your ex is hinting.  The kids were never certain where they were going to live and what was happening next, and this was terribly stressful for them.  Also, every negotiation became a conflict once DH starting asking for things to be equal.  So eventually, he went to court. 

The custody battle was TERRIBLE, and you should read William Eddy's book  "splitting" on divorcing a BPD person as it has great advice, should you decide to file for more custody.  The bottom line is that it will be along haul, and you can expect false allegations of abuse, lots of attempts to polarize your son against you, and a huge amount of stress and pain for your son.  There were many times in the process where DH and I felt it might not be worth it, and almost gave up to spare the kids.  But in the end, we now have a really plan for the first time, and the kids really are MUCH happier, and it is the first time where I have gone six months without questioning whether I will make it through family life! 

What getting a clear 50/50 plan did for us is show the kids that mommy is not the boss, that the craziness is not in charge.  That screaming and threatening does not trump, that there is an independent set of rules and independent authority that values both mom and dad as parents, and that is bigger than mom's craziness. That is really important to their sense of safety.  Because they love their mom completely, but they also want for kindness to win out over meanness, they want the world to seem fair and safe.  And, mom behaves much better with a clear set of rules, so then they can feel proud of her instead of secretly ashamed.

So for them, having a plan meant that their lives will not be settled by a war between mom and dad, with whomever is strongest winning, but by some fair and separate authority. 

I personally feel that the court was not fair, that it rewarded dishonesty and persecution, and that it was biased toward moms, as a court would never give a dad 50/50 with the history of abuse in their family, and with the alcohol abuse mom engages in, and with other high risk behaviors.

So I guess I would say that if you are stable and loving, and mom really is BPD, you are probably the better parent and should do your best to get as much custody as possible.  You should prepare long in advance, expect to spend tripple what others in your State spend; and expect for it to be very hard on your son in heartbreaking ways.  But from what I hear from people who get more than 60%, and for us getting a solid 50/50 plan, the stability this creates in the kids' lives is really worth it.  But it comes at a steep price. 

[tog]

I can't add much except to say that yes, what you are experiencing is common to those of us dealing with a pwBPD. My SO is currently in a custody battle with his uNPD/BPDstbxw, of her making. He's always only wanted joint custody and they've had 50/50 for 4 years now, but she wants 101% custody. Her entire self-image is caught up in being SS13's mother and in making sure the world knows that she is the better parent who has "more" custody and therefore is not responsible for the break-up of the marriage. It's been a nasty, nasty fight. Whatever you can do to minimize a battle such as this, you should do, IMO, for yourself and your kid (except... .  don't do it by just giving in to your X's every whim).

Like you, my SO struggles with anger and resentment. He's furious that she has tried to turn his son against him and has cost us 40K in legal fees just to get the same arrangement they agreed to 4 years ago. Sometimes he has let those emotions get away from him and that has caused conflict that has made the court battle worse.

She tries very hard to ensure that SS thinks she is the "important parent". She refers to her home as "SS's home" and our home as "XXX Road". She makes sure to always say SO gets "visitation" (it's joint custody) and that she approves of this "generous visitation". She has taken over all decision-making and tries her hardest to cut SO out. Fighting her to make decisions has proven futile and just a way of engaging and causing more conflict, so he has chosen to focus on protecting his time with his son, because that's where we have the most influence.

SS went through a period of lying for her and wanting to be with her. He is still very enmeshed with her. But as he gets older he seems to want to be with us more and he absolutely loves seeing the loving relationship between me and my SO. At our home he can be a child and not worry about taking care of his mother who he protects fiercely because he "feels sorry for her."  It's been a long road. Keep your relationship with your son strong and expect some challenges to it.

[DreamGirl]

Great post(s) ennie!