Not picking up the gauntlet

[Chosen]

I know the workshop tells us to not pick up the gauntlet, that it takes 2 to argue... .  I get that.  I have been doing that.  But what if he talks provocative talk almost every day?

Like last night, I was asking him if he could get the screwdriver for me because the toilet seat went loose (it has been loose for days and I finally remember fixing it).  He refused to, and also told me not to fix it because he wants to go to bed.  I told him it would only take a minute (and that's what it took in the end).

Then he started complaining about me never listening to him, and said, "If you don't want to listen to me, why ask?"  I just said I didn't ask him whether I could fix it now; I was just going to fix it because it needs fixing.  Then he still goes on complaining about me, saying how I'm all talk and no action (of loving him), etc., to which of course I didn't reply.

So I guess my question is, do we just never pick up the gauntlet, and accept the fact that they will always be provocative?  To be honest, I don't particularly like arguing as it wastes time and is tiring, so I'd rather not have to have these "discussions", but listening to him complaining about me every day makes me wonder why is he stuck with me if he hates me so much?

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[elemental]

He sounds like he wanted some attention and validation.

But you can just get so tired out it's hard to whip up the capacity, and I personally think that NOT reacting to it is the next best thing.

He complains because he is BPD and its about HIS feelings of anxiety, insecurity and he gets caught up in those feelings and everything else fades to less importance.

Doesn't feel good when it happens, I know.

[Somewhere]

but listening to him complaining about me every day makes me wonder why is he stuck with me if he hates me so much?

When you start to figure out the "complaints" about you . . . are actually projections of them -- mine are [that I am] Perfectionist, Controller, Verbal Abuser, on and on -- are all actually the things going on in her mind, and what she does -- these are Projections of herself -- it can maybe give you a little bit of compassion.  


But you cannot be the pin-cushion for their back-stabs and knives, either.

My too smart 10 year old daughter cautions me that I have a rough balancing act.

[real lady]

I know the workshop tells us to not pick up the gauntlet, that it takes 2 to argue... .  I get that.  I have been doing that.  But what if he talks provocative talk almost every day?

Hi Chosen... .  it is for THIS REASON that I do not tell my uBPDso "what I am doing" anymore and I wouldn't have even asked him for the screwdriver (not saying that you are wrong in doing so, I just see how it OPENS up the possibility to disregulation for my uBPDso... .  he is SO trigger sensitive).

So I guess my question is, do we just never pick up the gauntlet, and accept the fact that they will always be provocative? 

I won't because NOT picking up the gauntlet works for me... .  it makes MY life easier.

To be honest, I don't particularly like arguing as it wastes time and is tiring, so I'd rather not have to have these "discussions", but listening to him complaining about me every day makes me wonder why is he stuck with me if he hates me so much?

Isn't this projection in how they really feel about themselves? it isn't about us at all most of the time. It is THEIR NEED to express anger (subconsciously) and so they "pick" with us and provoke us to a discussion that turns into a fight. I just don't allow it.

If my uBPDso "has an opinion" on something that I did, I agree with him... .  I hope it is OK to place an excerpt of this concept that I wrote on another board: here it is:

So uBPDso asked "WHAT is this lamp doing here? why is it facing UP TO THE CEILING?... .  it could blind someone... .  " ( I thought to myself... .  REALLY? Wanting to "engage me and dysregulate" over a LAMP?"

I simply LOOKED AT HIM with a "what kind of question is that" look and replied... .  I very briefly stated: "It isn't ON"... .  (NOT answering the WHY OR HOW but the REAL CONCERN that I heard... .  a safety issue; it wasn't even plugged in... .  duh)

"I KNOW (snarky and nastily said) that" he said "but if it were it could BLIND SOMEONE"

I calmly replied (I AGREED)  "Yes, I suppose it could".

He sighed (due to me NOT ENGAGING in his argument) and said "WELL< I was trying to talk to you"... .  

I replied "we talked"

((Chosen)) I have realized that AGREEING with them without adding "my own thoughts on the matter" has helped me... .  I just ANSWER the question with as much FACT as possible. So when you "see the gauntlet"... .  walk around it. 

[Grey Kitty]

So I guess my question is, do we just never pick up the gauntlet, and accept the fact that they will always be provocative? 

I won't because NOT picking up the gauntlet works for me... .  it makes MY life easier.

Bingo! That's what I've found. (Now if I could only do it ALL the time!)

Just keep on with the experiment--Look at the results when you pick up the gauntlet, and look at the results when you walk around it. Once you decide which results you like better, do your best to stick with it. (Can you see that I've got an idea what you will find ?)

Besides... .  if you never pick it up... .  there is a good chance that it will spoil the fun of throwing it down enough that you will see less of them to walk around eventually.

[martillo]

I so understand this!  In fact, just posted something similar! 

Ignoring and/or not responding to uBPDh's provocative behavior does keep me from saying something stupid, doing something stupid or looking stupid (we have 4 sets of kiddo's eyes watching!) and then having all those regrets.  I must confess that I have not and do not always use the non-stupid approach and I still sometimes hear Jeff Foxworthy in the background say "Here's your sign!"

[Chosen]

Thanks to you all.  It is so hard not to pick it up, but I'm getting much better at discerning his wishes for arguments and I'm better at ignoring them.  In fact, what happened later on is that he started arguing with me via text (which he likes, I guess he can just talk and talk without allowing me to respond or cut him off), and I just said a lot of "OK"s, to which he said I'm cold-blooded and uncaring.  Then I just responded that he may prefer having a discussion or argument via text, but I'm not trying to argue.  I accept his views and I'm not trying to change them. 

Of course he then moved on to say what a bad person I've always been (which he resorts to every time he disagrees with something I do, and he uses almost the same examples every time... .  but at least now it's not full of swear words), and I just mainly ignored that.  I know that he's projecting his insecurities on me, but at that moment I obviously have doubts and will wonder if I'm really this horrible person.  I now know better and will not keep these words in my heart.  He still has a bit of this annoying attitude this morning but at least he left with an "I love you" and a kiss... .  so at least things are on the up.

Of course not picking up the gauntlet yields better results.  But we have to be alert that sometimes an innocent conversation is actually a gauntlet!

[real lady]

Then I just responded that he may prefer having a discussion or argument via text, but I'm not trying to argue.  I accept his views and I'm not trying to change them. 

((Chosen)) I slid down this slippery slope a few times too many... .  whenever we say "I was NOT trying to argue"... .  it is NOT validating to their "feelings and perception"... .  

I would say rather "oh, does it seem like I am cold blooded and uncaring? I don't intend to let my feelings show so much... .  but since you NOTICE that I am withdrawn, maybe you would like to use this as an opporutinity to ask yourself that if it were YOU who was acting cold and uncaring, what could I do to help you feel and act "more warmly" to me?

BTW, I have NOT said this because he has NOT "accused me" of being less than loving... .  if he did, I would respond... .  "I thought this is what you wanted from me, I am confused, I will need more information if you expect me to behave otherwise, I don't have any information to help me do that".

Of course he then moved on to say what a bad person I've always been (which he resorts to every time he disagrees with something I do, and he uses almost the same examples every time... .  but at least now it's not full of swear words), and I just mainly ignored that.

 

 So tiring, the SAME OLD ARGUMENT... .  mine has used "you ALWAYS interrupt me and say things that I wasn't saying"... .  (duh, of course, I am a SEPARATE person from him) and so I have told him that "I don't try to share or talk with you because I do not want to argue with you about it". I have withdrawn and he has "no complaints".

I know that he's projecting his insecurities on me, but at that moment I obviously have doubts and will wonder if I'm really this horrible person. 

Wow... .  this is when "KNOWING OURSELVES" needs to be in full play... .  

Of course not picking up the gauntlet yields better results.  But we have to be alert that sometimes an innocent conversation is actually a gauntlet.

DEFINITELY... .  the comment about the lamp on my thread seemed innocent enough but I sensed that it was a "gauntlet" and I  walked around it... .